Fundamentalists and the Bible 02

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wistfall1
wistfall1
135 Followers

A mine takes a long time to build, and panning for gold isn't how one finds so much of it that they become rich.

Again, think about it. One man and his wife alone departed from his two other brothers to father many lands. Once again, we are faced with whether to believe that two people could wander off as Adam and Eve are said to have done, and survive to found many nations, including one as great as Egypt is implied to be at this time. This is surely pure speculative fantasy on the part of the writer, but then the people are ignorant, and can't read, spending most of their time surviving. As such, it must be considered an error. More will be told momentarily, but in the meantime, mark this up as an error in the Bible. *****

By the way, why would God pick Abram to talk to, and tell him he's to be made a great nation, and then sends him to Egypt to have his "beautiful", though old wife, taken by Pharaoh for a wife. What was the sense in making this up, and putting it into a "holy" book? Is there rhyme or reason for this tale?

There are two (2) major errors and two (2) probable errors in chapter 12 of Genesis.

Genesis 13

Abram and Lot Separate

1 So Abram went up from Egypt, he and his wife and all that he had, and Lot with him, into the Negeb.

Here we see that Lot was with Abram in Egypt.

2 Now Abram was very rich in livestock, in silver, and in gold. 3 He journeyed on by stages from the Negeb as far as Bethel, to the place where his tent had been at the beginning, between Bethel and Ai, 4 to the place where he had made an altar at the first; and there Abram called on the name of the Lord. 5 Now Lot, who went with Abram, also had flocks and herds and tents,

And here we are told, as was assumed previously, that if Abram did not have flocks and herds, Lot did have flocks and herds and tents, all making travel slow and difficult, and Sarai already menopausal, and most likely weary.

6 so that the land could not support both of them living together; for their possessions were so great that they could not live together, 7 and there was strife between the herders of Abram's livestock and the herders of Lot's livestock. At that time the Canaanites and the Perizzites lived in the land. 8 Then Abram said to Lot, 'Let there be no strife between you and me, and between your herders and my herders; for we are kindred. 9 Is not the whole land before you? Separate yourself from me. If you take the left hand, then I will go to the right; or if you take the right hand, then I will go to the left.' 10 Lot looked about him, and saw that the plain of the Jordan was well watered everywhere like the garden of the Lord, like the land of Egypt, in the direction of Zoar; this was before the Lord had destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. 11 So Lot chose for himself all the plain of the Jordan, and Lot journeyed eastwards; thus they separated from each other.12 Abram settled in the land of Canaan, while Lot settled among the cities of the Plain and moved his tent as far as Sodom. 13 Now the people of Sodom were wicked, great sinners against the Lord. 14 The Lord said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him, 'Raise your eyes now, and look from the place where you are, northwards and southwards and eastwards and westwards; 15 for all the land that you see I will give to you and to your offspring for ever. 16 I will make your offspring like the dust of the earth; so that if one can count the dust of the earth, your offspring also can be counted.

If verse16 was talking about the Jews only, that has not happened. If it was talking about Jews and Arabs, it still has not happened. There's more dust in the earth than can be counted. Consulting the King James Version, The New International Version, and a Catholic Bible, all say "dust" as does The New Revised Standard Version used in this essay. This is an obvious error. *****

17 Rise up, walk through the length and the breadth of the land, for I will give it to you.' 18 So Abram moved his tent, and came and settled by the oaks of Mamre, which are at Hebron; and there he built an altar to the Lord.

There is one (1) major error in chapter 13 of Genesis.

Genesis 14

Lot's Captivity and Rescue

1 In the days of King Amraphel of Shinar, King Arioch of Ellasar, King Chedorlaomer of Elam, and King Tidal of Goiim, 2 these kings made war with King Bera of Sodom, King Birsha of Gomorrah, King Shinab of Admah, King Shemeber of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela (that is, Zoar). 3 All these joined forces in the Valley of Siddim (that is, the Dead Sea). 4 For twelve years they had served Chedorlaomer, but in the thirteenth year they rebelled. 5 In the fourteenth year Chedorlaomer and the kings who were with him came and subdued the Rephaim in Ashteroth-karnaim, the Zuzim in Ham, the Emim in Shaveh-kiriathaim, 6 and the Horites in the hill country of Seir as far as El-paran on the edge of the wilderness; 7 then they turned back and came to En-mishpat (that is, Kadesh), and subdued all the country of the Amalekites, and also the Amorites who lived in Hazazon-tamar.8 Then the king of Sodom, the king of Gomorrah, the king of Admah, the king of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela (that is, Zoar) went out, and they joined battle in the Valley of Siddim 9 with King Chedorlaomer of Elam, King Tidal of Goiim, King Amraphel of Shinar, and King Arioch of Ellasar, four kings against five. 10 Now the Valley of Siddim was full of bitumen pits; and as the kings of Sodom and Gomorrah fled, some fell into them, and the rest fled to the hill country. 11 So the enemy took all the goods of Sodom and Gomorrah, and all their provisions, and went their way; 12 they also took Lot, the son of Abram's brother, who lived in Sodom, and his goods, and departed.13 Then one who had escaped came and told Abram the Hebrew, who was living by the oaks of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol and of Aner; these were allies of Abram. 14 When Abram heard that his nephew had been taken captive, he led forth his trained men, born in his house, three hundred and eighteen of them, and went in pursuit as far as Dan. 15 He divided his forces against them by night, he and his servants, and routed them and pursued them to Hobah, north of Damascus. 16 Then he brought back all the goods, and also brought back his nephew Lot with his goods, and the women and the people.

Offhandedly the above history and kings looks plausible with regards to most of it. Like most others who've looked at this, preachers included, I'd never delved into it, but since I'm looking at it closely this time, I did look into it via the Internet.

Searching the Internet, it seems that Amraphel, king of Shinar may have been Hammurabi, and Shinar is Babylonia, and the time may be something in the range of 1750-1792 BCE, but nothing is certain about these possible facts. What seems certain, and scholars who research this can probably say, is that there were powers in the East, Elam being somewhere in the vicinity of present day Iran, Ellasar somewhere in Central Babylonia, and oddly, Tidal, or Tudhaliya, the king of nations, is a goyim, or none-semite, ruler possibly of Lagros mountain area.

We're all pretty much familiar with Hammurabi, and we're familiar with the fact that there were indeed warrior nations, and there is a historical possibility/probability that these nations held sway over much of Canaan to the Dead Sea, as well as Sodom and Gomorrah.

It is also possible that there was a war as stated in verse 2, and also possible that there was a rebellion as in verse 4. It is also possible that there was another rebellion as in verses 8-10. So what's the problem? Let's pause a moment.

War and vassal nations

The above verses tell of fourteen years of war and rebellion by nations, small though they were, but several, with the known powers of the Middle East at that time. Egypt also had to be a power, but apparently didn't hold sway over Canaan though Sodom and Gomorrah were most likely close to the southern portion of the Dead Sea, and as such, were pretty close to Egypt.

It appears that prior to this time, Egypt had been prosperous and mighty, but suddenly fell, reasons not known, but was still Egypt, though not far into the future, what are called Hyksos would take over much of Egypt. One thing that stands out to highlight the point I'm about to make is that a Pharaoh in the recent past of this time had ten thousand (10,000) men loyal to him.

If we look again at verses 8 through 10, then at verse 14, in this last verse we are told that Abram had three hundred and eighteen men trained in his house, we begin to suspect a few things being wrong.

Many researchers with objective eyes are coming to find that the Pentatuech (the five books of Moses), Genesis through Deuteronomy, were actually written by intellectuals brought to Babylon when Babylonia destroyed Jerusalem and their temple. Those intellectuals are now thought to have written the first five books in the five hundreds (500s) BCE in somewhat the form we have now, though alterations since then are suspected to have been made. Some of those intellectuals were probably familiar with the history of Canaan as well as of Egypt.

Let's now look back again to the "time of Abram", and seek to put all of this together, with the knowledge that several of these Eastern powers must have had large armies for the time, and that there were four (4) of them.

In verse 14, we're told Abram had three (3) allies, but it says nothing about their numbers, but is very specific about Abrams "army" being three hundred and eighteen (318). At this point, we have to doubt that Abram could have had enough men to defeat the armies making their way back home to Babylonia, Elam, etc.

What it seems likely to have been thought was to take this tale and paste it onto vaguely known history, but stretch facts tremendously. In other words, this is too fantastic a tale to come close to being believable, and therefore an error in the Bible. *****

To further point to this, when Abram made his way to Egypt with his wife, there is no mention of herds, nor any mention of three hundred-eighteen men trained in his house. Considering this, it isn't too difficult to see that this information was a large part of what was tacked onto possibly known history.

Or, why was Lot said to have flocks and herds, but not Abram, and why does it seem as if Abram and Sarai are pretty much alone, and Abram thereby needing to protect himself though it is later said he had all those men trained in his house? If we look at it in this light, we can't help but see fabrication in this story and bad fabrication at that. For the three hundred-eighteen men said to be at Abram's command, we say this is a major error in the Bible also. *****

Abram Blessed by Melchizedek

17 After his return from the defeat of Chedorlaomer and the kings who were with him, the king of Sodom went out to meet him at the Valley of Shaveh (that is, the King's Valley). 18 And King Melchizedek of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was priest of God Most High. 19 He blessed him and said, 'Blessed be Abram by God Most High, maker of heaven and earth; 20 and blessed be God Most High, who has delivered your enemies into your hand!'

This also is odd. There are two (2) mentions of Melchizedek in the Old Testament, and this is the first one. Salem, of which he is said to be king, is most likely a part of what we know of as Jerusalem, or Jeru and Salem. Melchizedek also seems to be made up, invented by the writers of the Bible.

More, notice once again that there is no name for God other than to be called God Most High. As previously stated, El was considered the high god of Canaanites. Psalm 82 speaks of God standing in the congregation of the mighty judging among the gods, and mentions "the most High," presumably the mighty god of the Canaanites, El. Since there is no Yahweh, or Jehovah at this time, this god must be other than the god of Moses. That the Jews were a nation that worshipped many gods has been known by biblical researchers for some time.

There can be no errors ascribed to Melchizedek, nor to God Most High for it cannot be said that this is an error, but it is worth remembering that Abram tithed a tenth to the priest of this god, and apparently not to Yahweh, or Jehovah. Then again, we don't know what god "spoke" to Abram. This is all very curious and wholly uncertain, and should be uncertain to everyone, including Fundamentalists/Evangelicals who assume which god is being mentioned.

And Abram gave him one-tenth of everything. 21 Then the king of Sodom said to Abram, 'Give me the people, but take the goods for yourself.' 22 But Abram said to the king of Sodom, 'I have sworn to the Lord, God Most High,* maker of heaven and earth, 23 that I would not take a thread or a sandal-thong or anything that is yours, so that you might not say, "I have made Abram rich. 24 I will take nothing but what the young men have eaten, and the share of the men who went with me—Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre. Let them take their share.'

Once more we are told of the three allies of Abram, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre, but nothing of any men they might have had. Intelligent though the writers of these first five books of the Bible were, they knew nothing about war, but did know that just about all of their countrymen could neither read nor write so no problem. Apparently they never thought of these writings being used by other than their own people who would, in their minds, always be pastoral and ignorant so writing whatever seemed as if it would be logical to them and therefore to their audience, was no problem.

There are two (2) major errors in chapter 14 of Genesis.

Genesis 15

God's Covenant with Abram

1 After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, 'Do not be afraid, Abram, I am your shield; your reward shall be very great.' 2 But Abram said, 'O Lord God, what will you give me, for I continue childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?' 3 And Abram said, 'You have given me no offspring, and so a slave born in my house is to be my heir.' 4 But the word of the Lord came to him, 'This man shall not be your heir; no one but your very own issue shall be your heir.' 5 He brought him outside and said, 'Look towards heaven and count the stars, if you are able to count them.' Then he said to him, 'So shall your descendants be.'

This has not happened. There are over a trillion stars in the sky, but regardless, Jews have not been countless at any time. An error in the Bible. *****

6 And he believed the Lord; and the Lord reckoned it to him as righteousness. 7 Then he said to him, 'I am the Lord who brought you from Ur of the Chaldeans, to give you this land to possess.'

This is not correct. Abram's father, Terah, moved them from Ur to Haran, and per chapter 11, verse 31, and in chapter 12, verses 1 through 4, it was out of Haran that Abram was called out of. This is an obvious error in the Bible. *****

8 But he said, 'O Lord God, how am I to know that I shall possess it?' 9 He said to him, 'Bring me a heifer three years old, a female goat three years old, a ram three years old, a turtle-dove, and a young pigeon.' 10 He brought him all these and cut them in two, laying each half over against the other; but he did not cut the birds in two. 11 And when birds of prey came down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away.12 As the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram, and a deep and terrifying darkness descended upon him. 13 Then the Lord said to Abram, 'Know this for certain, that your offspring shall be aliens in a land that is not theirs, and shall be slaves there, and they shall be oppressed for four hundred years; 14 but I will bring judgement on the nation that they serve, and afterwards they shall come out with great possessions. 15 As for yourself, you shall go to your ancestors in peace; you shall be buried in a good old age.

Not to heaven, or to be with God, but simply buried.

16 And they shall come back here in the fourth generation; for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.' 17 When the sun had gone down and it was dark, a smoking fire-pot and a flaming torch passed between these pieces. 18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, 'To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates,

They have never been to the border of the Euphrates, nor have they ever claimed in recent times that the area we call Iraq belonged to the Jews as they have claimed Palestine does. If the river of Egypt is the Nile,then it has never been theirs either. This has to be a major error. *****

19 the land of the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.'

There are three (3) major errors in chapter 15 of Genesis.

Genesis 16

The Birth of Ishmael

1 Now Sarai, Abram's wife, bore him no children. She had an Egyptian slave_girl whose name was Hagar, 2 and Sarai said to Abram, 'You see that the Lord has prevented me from bearing children; go in to my slave-girl; it may be that I shall obtain children by her.' And Abram listened to the voice of Sarai. 3 So, after Abram had lived for ten years in the land of Canaan, Sarai, Abram's wife, took Hagar the Egyptian, her slave-girl, and gave her to her husband Abram as a wife.

Abram was seventy-five (75) years old when he left Haran at God's calling, and Sarai then has to be sixty-five for she is ten (10) years younger than Abram per chapter 17, verse 17. With Lot and his family, his herds and flocks, and "persons" he had acquired in Haran, they went to Canaan, built an altar, and pitched their tent near to Bethel. Later, they made their way "by stages" to the Negeb per chapter 12, verse 9.

Taking time to move with his "possessions" and Lot's flocks and herds from Haran at the southern border of Turkey to Canaan had to take time, probably a couple of months at least. Moving as if tentatively around until he came to one side of Bethel, build that altar, and "pitched his tent" per chapter 12, verse 8, this had to mean they spent some time there before moving "by stages" toward the Negeb. How much time, we don't know, but they had to rest with flocks and herds and many men.

We also know that in time, a famine came on the land which took them to Egypt.

The question is, how much time had passed until they had entered Egypt, and how long did it take before Sarai was brought to Pharaoh's attention, and then for him to take her to wife; and lastly, how long was Sarai Pharaoh's "wife"?

It is not unreasonable to estimate that they were a year at the least from Haran to leaving Egypt, and most likely two or more years for "famine" to come on the land since there had to be plenty for Abram to "pitch his tent near to Bethel.

If so, this made Abram seventy-six, or seventy-seven years old, or older.

When they did leave Egypt (with his possessions, including men, apparently), Abram was very rich with various herds, silver, and gold according to chapter 13, verses 1 through 4 and went to the Negeb, then by "stages" again, but this time to Bethel along with Lot and his herds.

This all had to take another year at the least for the flocks had to graze regularly.

This would make Abram at least seventy-seven or seventy-eight.

Now he's lived in Canaan for ten (10) years, and is eighty-seven (87) or eighty-eight (88) years old, or possibly a little older, and has no children, and is given Hagar to bear him a child.

4 He went in to Hagar, and she conceived; and when she saw that she had conceived, she looked with contempt on her mistress. 5 Then Sarai said to Abram, 'May the wrong done to me be on you! I gave my slave-girl to your embrace, and when she saw that she had conceived, she looked on me with contempt. May the Lord judge between you and me!' 6 But Abram said to Sarai, 'Your slave-girl is in your power; do to her as you please.' Then Sarai dealt harshly with her, and she ran away from her. 7 The angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, the spring on the way to Shur.8 And he said, 'Hagar, slave-girl of Sarai, where have you come from and where are you going?' She said, 'I am running away from my mistress Sarai.' 9 The angel of the Lord said to her, 'Return to your mistress, and submit to her.' 10 The angel of the Lord also said to her, 'I will so greatly multiply your offspring that they cannot be counted for multitude.' 11 And the angel of the Lord said to her, 'Now you have conceived and shall bear a son; you shall call him Ishmael, for the Lord has given heed to your affliction. 12 He shall be a wild ass of a man, with his hand against everyone, and everyone's hand against him; and he shall live at odds with all his kin.' 13 So she named the Lord who spoke to her, 'You are El-roi'; for she said, 'Have I really seen God and remained alive after seeing him?'

wistfall1
wistfall1
135 Followers