All Comments on 'A Category That Is: Loving Wives'

Interesting. You have a good understanding on an intellectual level but never have experienced the real thing. Now imagine discovering your wife's "indiscretions" two years after she died and realized you were fucked over by everyone. When you hit that level, sent me a note. Then you'll really know.

No Rating

Nothing else to add.

To betrayedbylove - First of all, I'm very sorry for what happened to you. I know I would be devastated if I were you.

But look at this scenario from my point of view because yours is a truly unique case.

You can't bring your wife back from the grave and slap some sense into her, all the while asking her why did she do this. Scream, rant and shout all you want to let your pain out. It is natural for humans to do this for letting out their frustration.

But it's time to stop doing that and focus on your own life.

Induldge in your hobbies, go out and meet people, do exercise, practice meditation - Do all those things that will help you put your life back on track. Live your life to the fullest, however short it is. Don't let her thoughts darken your days.

I know it's easier said than done but atleast give it a try. Do meditation - it will help you focus your thoughts to a crystal clarity and calm you down.

Life is NOT over yet. There is a world out there for you to enjoy and live in. Don't let her win this game, at least.

To Anon. - If you've nothing else to say as to why I'm a wimp, DO NOT BOTHER PEOPLE BY LETTING THEM KNOW THAT YOU EVEN EXIST!

Thanks for the reply. Keep writing.

This comment sums up why unforgiveness is such a poison. "Unforgiveness is choosing to stay trapped in a jail cell of bitterness, serving time for someone else’s crime." To betrayedbylove, forgive your wife of 25 years and be set free.

How is Wife Swapping or Open Relationships more controversial than incest or freakin rape? Literotica is pretty screwed up if loving wives is the most controversial category here.

Most write from life experiences, well most good writer's do. But in the end it's fiction, even if they swear it's true, in fact, every story has three sides, his story, her story, and the truth. My favorite part of Loving Wives is the reluctant wife, the revenge, I don't care, and humiliation I just pass by. Something I discovered about the swinging lifestyle is what you read, see, or think about swinging is not what it really is, and writer's are seldom what they really are as well. So I don't really have a point except how much none of this matters, and what matters less about what any writer thinks about Loving Wives is the insulting and negative comments left by a readers who hate Loving Wives yet come here to read the stories.

Well, as they say : It's all in the details.

I meant to say it in the sense that this category generates a strong, bordering on vehement, reaction among the readers. In the sense that either you love it or you hate it

Ha, ha!

I won't try and persuade you to believe this essay of mine. That choice is absolutely yours.

Bard, with all due respect, I hope you mulled over why a porn story or two started an anxiety attack about your own love life.

It's almost comical, this cagegory. Some LW authors try to yank as many chains as they can in their stories to draw out the overwrought reactions that insecure men seem unable to resist. The anonymous "one-bombers" really get wound around the axle.

I don't read incest stories. Or gay male. I'm just not interested. But since I don't read them, they don't bother me. Revenge stories or cuckold stories in LW don't bother me. They aren't going to influence my behavior, just as the latest murder mystery isn't going to influence my behavior. It's just a story.

But these anonymous lurkers seem to take these cheating wife stories personally, and that's why LW is so controversial. Any male character who doesn't immediately pull out his Columbine Special and start blasting away is a wimp.

Well, these stories are getting read by somebody. Lit isn't going to ban them, and as I said above, I can almost see some of the authors cackling as they read the hysterical attacks in the comments. Other authors are probably just writing stories they like to write and those stories are being read by people who like them. Shocking, isn't it, that there are readers that the one-bombers sum up as "wimps"! But their submissive kind of kink is a perversion, while the kind WE favor -- whether it's incest, anal or what have you -- isn't.

Seventeen out of the 20 most-read stories on this site are incest stories. Throw out the one "story" that's a list of stories written in languages other than English, and we're up to 18 of the top 20. But I don't go around one-bombing the authors because the subject matter makes me nauseous. I'm sure (or at least I hope) that most readers of those stories aren't a) banging their daughters because they were inspired by Lit stories or b) worried that their wives are banging their sons because some character in an H-rated story is. They're just stories, and nobody's forcing anybody to read them. So I don't.

You've worked through your insecurites, Good. I'd suggest that if other readers are fearful that they're in the same boat as a story's protaganist/cuckold, some counseling with a little more substance than Lit stories can provide might be in order.

First of all, I REALLY appreciate the fact that you took out the time to write a piece of commentary that big.

It wasn't THAT big an over-reaction to the LW stories I had read but it was subtle, but it was there nonetheless and she's quite sensitive to such things, so she caught up on me.

As for your other views here on other categories, you may go to the Lit forum link below and read the logic given by TamLin01. Some of the views that I disagree with you are written there.

forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=57632342#post57632342

That's a very superficial and simplistic argument. The same could be applied to movies, plays,. TV shows, etc. Making comments on a story (e.g., the plot, the logic, the circumstances) is the essence of criticism. The minute someone makes their story public in ANY forum, they open themselves to comments, good or bad.

I've been fascinated by the BTB crowd since the day I discovered this site. I understand why people would be turned off by stories that include a husband who is humiliated by the wife, and who is forced to suck dicks and swallow cum. And I understand, and agree with, their opinion that stories like that don't belong in the LW category.

What I don't understand is why they enjoy stories where a husband exacts revenge on his cheating wife through divorce (which is a storyline that bores me to tears) or murder (which is sociopathic.) To me, not only do these types of stories not belong in the LW category, but they don't belong on this website, period.

If you enjoy these types of stories, why on earth would you even visit a site called "Literotica?" There is nothing erotic about those stories. And if you are an angry, bitter old man who has been wronged by a cheating woman, and reading stories about cheating wives stirs bad memories and emotions, why on EARTH would you even look at the LW category? I just don't get it.

What I find most confusing about the BTB crowd is when they comment on a story about a loving wife who is willingly shared by her husband, with his full consent and approval, and where there is no humiliation or "gay contact"...and they still rant and rave about "cuckholds", "wimps", etc..

I can only conclude that the BTB crowd visits the LW category specifically to voice their own version of "morality" to the rest of the world. It must make them feel good about themselves to lecture others about how the world "should be" and what fetishes we all should have, and to hurl all sorts of vile names at those who don't share their worldview. I see this sort of thing all the time in political discussions.

Lastly, what I find most amusing about the BTB crowd is how ANGRY they get at fictional characters in a story! I can only imagine what it must be like to watch a movie with these people! They would spend the entire time shouting at the screen!

Much ado about nothing. Always nice to know your opinion though, I guess.

One commentator said he never reads incest stories. Too bad. There are some good ones out there, the best being those that treat sex as between adults who desire it and are consenting. I think the point should be that sex of any sort that satisfies these requirements should be judged impartially. Can an expression of sex that is this alarming and repugnant to so many people be presented in a positive way? The best ones do just that. We need to relax about this subject--sex itself.

I particularly enjoyed (besides your own initial argument) the one entitled "Understanding the BTB crowd", although I have to confess I haven't yet figured out what BTB means.

My own take, as a long-time Lit reader, a one-time story writer, and a man of many years of experience with several wives, is that the LW category is controversial because there are so many readers who've been hurt by love...hurt to the point where they can't stop themselves from taking each piece of fiction as real-life. So they attack the author for not providing the redemption they so desperately crave, or for so willingly making (in fiction) the mistake they made in real life. And so on.

In your case, I think you're missing one point: no writer of fiction has, or should have, to apologize for their subject matter or their plot twists or points of view. We all are, or should be, capable of sorting through the chaff of what we don't want to read, to find the few gems that do appeal to us.

Personally I'm not interested in the revenge stories, nor ones with elements of humiliation, violence, race, etc, so I pass these by. I have my own interests, stories that turn me on and give me pleasure, but I recognize that there exist people who enjoy and are compelled to find and read the very material that turns me completely off. How sad, though, that there also exist people who are compelled to read certain types of stories and then to dump all over them for their content, not their style.

... Loving Wives should be separated into different categories. At least it will then remove from the BTB (Burn The Bitch) brigade the excuse that they hide behind when they joyously burn the author. As the site clearly doesn't give a toss, nothing will change, and sadly, that has cost them many good authors over the years. I think that's a shame, even if they don't.

LW is controversial in ways that the incest category isn't because it has become such a catch-all category. Personally, I don't see how a BTB story actually involves a "loving wife " (except that she's "loving" someone else) - these stories rarely have much love involved. I agree that the category should be split into the various sub-genres: adultery, willing cuckoldry (unwilling goes in adultery), and... hateful stories - did I miss any? If everyone's having fun the story is probably already in the "group sex" category.

Basically the problem with "loving wives" is that unlike all the other categories besides non-consensual, you feel like crap for reading it. IMHO of course.

Thanks for a thoughtful essay on LW, and you do cover many key aspects of it. You do leave out compersion, I believe, which is another sentiment to consider.

diseases, divorce, separation, consequences of people finding out, financial concerns, mental issues, bastard children especially those with genetic problems or organ need, issues dealing with trust involving lying and deceit. I sure there are more but as one author pointed out long ago, it doesn't matter why you cheated only that you did it.

For me, this category is the only thing that I read or write. I guess what I look for in a story is the "mind fuck", if you will. You can have the BTB, the RAAC (Reconcile at all costs), or the wimp crowd (the husbands who willingly accept their 'new roles' in the relationship). I look for the emotion. I want to 'feel' the story. If there's eroticism in it, then given my moods... it's even more of a SCORE!

Personally, I would never allow myself to be in a relationship where another man needs to satisfy my wife. I'm too much the jealous type to let that happen. However, there's a story by xleglover called Consequences Chapter XX (I have no idea what chapter he's on now, I've stopped reading it... more of that in a moment). He actually brought up a point during one of the chapters that really made me think. The protagonist wants his wife to have sex outside the marriage. In this particular chapter, the moral dilemma that came up was "In order for her to make the right choice in a sex partner, she needs to invest some time in that partner"... She truly had to become a domme, which meant she dictated the terms of the marriage and the terms of her extra-marital affairs. In which case, it put the protagonist's role in the marriage in jeopardy. "How can he truly know that he comes first, when she might be spending more time with a lover?". I'm probably doing the story an injustice, or at least failing miserably in making my point. But it was a very philosophical moment for me.

Why is that significant? Because I hated the entire arc of the story. For me, I want to see change. I want to see resolution. I want to see how "Average Joe" reacts to a life changing event, feel what he feels, and watch how the author allows him to recover. That particular story - I feel like it gets repetitive, and I've stopped reading because all it's doing is pulling on my heart strings and winds up with me yelling at my laptop screen, "FIX YOUR RELATIONSHIP! THIS IS NOT HEALTHY!".

I'm adding my two cents in here because I do value this category. To me, it's the one category I'm expecting to feel something after reading it. I don't read every story in the category. And I do miss some of the "older" writers, but I'm trying to pick up the pen to write my own. Finding time to do so, and being inspired to write a story line where I'm expecting the audience to "feel" what the protagonist is going through... that takes up a lot of my time. And I try to apply my own standards to what I'm writing.

Anyway, now I feel like I'm rambling.

The only complaint I have is you didn't quote one of my stories! LOL! I think for what ever reason, LW attracts a lot of persons who like Passion plays...the same plot over and over. The expectation that the hero will be a "nice guy" and therefore must necessarily be the best guy, typically he is surrounded by people who love and respect him, well, except for the wife. the wife suffers and he finds a woman so desperate, that she cannot help but allow herself to be rescued from drudgery and love him happily ever after.

Don't laugh, it gets great scores.

However there is also the more literate, thoughtful readers who appreciate realistic situations with flawed characters, who struggle to get through life as best they can.

So find the authors who you appreciate, add them to your favorites, so others can see, and maybe find one they didn't know. The inventory of loving wives stories is huge, 23,131.

I am also surprised how few comment on the stories, after the first few days of publication, comments drop off to near nothing. From this I conclude that there are likely just a couple hundred commenters in LW out of 50-100+ thousand readers.

Chilley

I think the primary thing here is that is often difficult to tell which way a story on this category is going to go. A simple two way split would do wonders for this category. for my part, I enjoy reading the ones where the husband enjoyed sharing the wife - but it can be difficult to find the best ones at the BTB lovers have artificially lowered their scores. And, I don't care to read the BTB stories and yet, sometimes it's hard to tell until I've read a bit. Unlike the bitter BTB ranters, I just stop reading and look for something better.

I am not an avid reader of the LW caregory, so I'm bound to miss many stories that are probably good enough to be included in my favs. Notice that my favs. does not consist on one-timer, forgettable stories. These are stories that I think I won't get tired of giving it a read again and again. The list also changes woth time and is definitely NOT to everyone's liking.

I'll give your stories a read sometimes in the future and let you know what I think.

swingerjoe : "Lastly, what I find most amusing about the BTB crowd is how ANGRY they get at fictional characters in a story! I can only

imagine what it must be like to watch a movie with these

people! They would spend the entire time shouting at the

screen!"

Well put! I do have a problem with such people who are against reconciliation and still read the stories, only in order to let others know how the author should've have kicked the cheating spouse's ass.

To the general crowd of Anons. out there: My review was not focussed on the consequences of cheating. I've just stated what scemarios are possoble. I don't go around all day, reading LW stories, so I cab miss some pretty good ones out there.

The debate out here is very lively and it is you people who bring a breath of fresh air into this review. Let your views be known to other people around here.

Okay, so LW seems to be divided into two camps, the BTB and Wimp camps, or that's how it seems according to those who leave the majority of comments. Each camp has it's supporters who praise their own preferences and absolutely flame the opposition. Each camp seems to worry about the mentality of the characters in the stories - forgetting completely that they are fictional, non-existent, figments of someone's imagination, and then they'll turn on the authors, calling them faggots, wimps, bastards, etc etc. Maybe some are, but clearly the majority of insults don't apply and are just an escape valve for the head of steam the commenter built up while reading the story - which he probably knew in advance he wouldn't like!

But what about the authors? What about the mentality of writers who churn out story after story for one side or the other of LW in the absolutely certain knowledge that they will be insulted, denigrated, scorned and otherwise shat on? Are they masochists who want to have their work railed at? Would you set yourself up time after time to be shot down in such spectacular and occasionally frightening ways? Because I wouldn't. If I had the skill to write, then this is one category I would leave alone for the sake of my own sanity, let alone that of potential readers and flamers. It worries me that's all, and now I've had my two bits worth I'll leave it to others better qualified to tell me why authors do this to themselves.

1st: Good essay. Inciteful, well written investigative/explanatory worth at least 4 stars if not 5. Thank you for sharing.

2nd: I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but the Lit editors changed the definition of Loving Wives some time back. I think they did it to support an end, which I will explain later.

3rd: I feel the main issue with Loving Wives is one of categorization. One the Lit editors purposefully ignore. If the cuckold, dom/sub, and other fetish stories were properly categorized there would be no where NEAR the controversy there is now.

4th: Remeber that "end" I mentioned before? I feel the reason the Lit editors changed the definition and allow fetish stories in this category is precisely BECAUSE of the controversy they evoke. Clearly, this is the most read and most highly trafficked category on the site. In a word - it's popular.

5th and finally: I would venture a guess as to say it's the most popular category at this site. Why would they do anything to change there biggest draw? People show up not only to read the stories, but some drop by to read just the comments!

So... even though I feel the cuckold and dom/sub stories should be in fetish and I don't care to read them, the Lit editors will never move them or make the authors categorize them properly because they draw a crowd. And on a free, ad-based site isn't that what it's all about?

To Anon. : What about the authors?

Well, if you're offended by an author and his equally offending stories, then it is my humble advice to avoid them altogether. Why waste your time reading someone's work you'll definitely end up hating?

To chootkabhoot : Wrong statistics.

I don't know if you sit around with a pad, categorising every story in LW as per your satisfaction, but do enlighten us faithfuls by giving us your magic figures. As for most of the story being about cuckolds, I'll peg that to the revenge category.

To bobby9909 : My humble opinion

I'll appreciate even your rude opinions, given that you justify yourself for the rude remarks.

Bard - You missed my point.

I don't waste my time reading stores I know I'll dislike. I don't find any particular stories or authors offensive, because if I find I'm not enjoying a story I simply jog on to the next.

My concern is for the motives of authors who write almost exclusively in the LW category, lining themselves up time after time to be vilified by haters of whichever sort applies. I simply cannot understand why anyone would submit one story that has no chance of a decent score and which will attract vitriolic and often downright hateful comments because it has become the target of the 'opposition', let alone story after story, and I was kinda hoping that someone would explain the attraction of that particularly painful kind of literary masochism.

To Anon. : What about the authors MkII -

Some people get famous for some of the exceptionally good work they've written.

But some people also get famous for the exceptional piece of trash they write. They are the ultimate 'Howlers' and reduce even the coldest sonsofbitches into tears. To take an example of victims to such authors, I'll take you.

That author has been so exceptional that you remember him out of the thousands of authors on this site. You might think you're infected but let me explain this.

Popularity. That's it. Either you do it by the good work or the bad work. We as humans are more prone to remember extreme things than the average, bland ones. That author, knowingly or unknowingly, has planted himself into your memory and that's all he wants - to be remembered.

Either that or he is a stoned Hellen Keller, he thinks that he's the best out here and all those critics have an astronomically lower IQ than him.

Its as if this author has somehow , someway bugged my brain. We only differ on the worthiness of ' Katie's Massage'. To me, it was just ' awright '. Nailed my thoughts , however, in too many other instances to count. Kudos !

Just speaking for myself, my view has been mentioned as one who loves to read the comments, I am not the least interested in stories of dumb sluts, wimps and cuckolds, (great cure for insomnia), but the comments are a different source of entertainment, some are so completely over the top, 'frothing at the mouth' rage at the wimps and infidelity, I have roared laughing to the point of tears in my eyes at the vitriolic and inventive suggestions as to how one should handle the situation. Amazing that some stories have this capability to enrage some readers to this extent.

On top of this there is frequently others who love it, then ensues a 'flame war' between the commenters. So yes I will keep checking back into LW to start my day with a good laugh.

To bobby9909: Sorry! I wasn't implying that you were rude, which of course, you weren't. I was telling that any of your opinions, good or bad, will always be appreciated out here.

Lets suppose that you didn't like /disagreed with a point I've written. If you had some other views which were in conflict with me, I wouldn't mind AT ALL if you wrote to me, stating your displeasure along with the reasons.

Sorry yet again!

I have a few things to say.

MY TURN

The Soulful Bard essay is pretty interesting but from my perspective and I realize I'm probably pretty unique in this regard... It misses several key points.

The key aspect to the LW category that gets overlooked is that the vast majority of the people who read the story are MEN . men who are either married ...or have been married ...or are divorced ...or see themselves getting married at some point in the near future. That is not the case in some of the arctic categories such as exhibitionism or Fetish or Gay sex or Incest

.

All this may seem obvious BUT it is the reason WHY the LW category generates so much feedback and heat and intensity. Good stories from talented writers will always bring about a lot of feedback because most men can relate to these types of stories.

SECOND ... A lot of the people who complain about the feedback in a LW story are really just plain stupid. No let me change that ...some of them are really god damn fucking stupid. Giving a critical review or even blasting the story with harsh and extreme language--- which I have been known to do-- is not even remotely the same thing s as BTB.

For example I recently gave a review of the story ALYSSA and GAVIN by Carvohi. Most readers liked the story a lot however I do not. More importantly however I gave specific reasons WHY I did not like the story. ** The TYPICAL BTB feeedback NEVER gives ANY detailed analysis or thought behind their posts. *** I am not asking for demanding that everybody agree with MY perspective . BUT I have never posted anonymously and I take the time to put together some feedback which I like to think is usually comprehensive. Yes I fully recognize that offer my perspective is different from anybody elses. Oddly you would think most writers would appreciate that .

My point here is that if ANYONE -- writes 4 or 5 or 6 paragraphs about why they think a story is flawed... that negative review should not automatically be characterized as a BTB comment.

THIRD... WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

This my second pet peeve about the LW category. It is shocking to me how many times the author never has the emasculated or hurt or crushed husband spend anytime thinking about "what does her actions MEAN?"

To be sure we often have a portion of the story where the husband says" what did I do wrong ?" ... " was I not go enough in bed? " etc . But that is not the same thing.

A classic case of this would be a story such as HOUSE OF CARDS by the talented writer OHIO. The reconciliation at the story simply makes no sense and is clearly forced. The wife had an affair with another man for 8 months (wow !!) including a conscious decision to fuck the other guy and NOT have sex with her husband on their anniversary. That sort of thing makes ANY reconciliation impossible. The wife says throughout the story that she made it cleat that her husband was/ is most important and not the lover / boyfriend. Yet it is clear from the actions which occur on their anniversary week that this was not the case.

The PROBLEM is that husband spends no time at all thinking about this massive contradiction.... and what it actually MEANS . Instead he ends of developing this fictitious love affair that teaches wife a lesson. This sort of silly ploy in the story does not work and the story rapidly goes downhill from there . In the end because he spends no time thinking about what the wife's 8 months affair MEANS.. what it says about her .. what it says about how the wife views the marriage .... that she perfers to fuck her lover on their marriage anniversary .. the reconciliation at the end becomes just barely possible.

3 MALE PRIDE vs CONSEQUENCES

This one really pisses me off. I mean it deeply infuriates me. Whenever I see the argument or charge be made that the husband is simply reacted badly to the wife's cheating the cause of" MALE PRIDE'... I know we are looking at a DEAD story and a author that is painted themselves into a corner.

FIRST off it is SEXIST in the extreme. It strongly implies that most men are simply obsessed with their own Cocks and that the ONLY reason why men/ husbands get angry or upset over the wife's cheating/ actions is because the other guy might have a bigger cock or is better in bed.

REALLY? Authors ... at least allow for the possibility that not ALL men think like that ALLLLLLLLLL the time.

SECOND... We often see this sort of common being made by the marriage counselor or marriage therapist! In real life however no marriage counselor / therapist t would ever say anything like this. The very idea and comment goes against the principle of therapy. Emotional &psychological healing cannot begin if one person is being told that their emotional angst and Hurt is meaningless bullshit.

For example I cite the story by GARY APB the TGI Chronicles -- Too late. Tim and Beth are seeing a marriage counselor over her prolonged and deceptive cheating. Even after the breakup Beth consistently and pathologically Lies to everyone about why Tim left . She lies to her friends. She lies to his friends. She lies to her parents. She even lies to the marriage counselor. At one point in the therapy Tim walks out... and the next session the therapist rips into Tim because of " his SILLY male Pride". Beth's inability to tell the truth what day of the week it is get NO reaction / comment from the marriage counselor or anyone else. Tim walking out ? THAT is a big no no.

"LOOK eye ! ... always Look eye ..."

To Harryin VA :

*The Bard emerges out of a pile of his work's ashes, very recently destroyed by somebody's cannonballs, his body wracked with coughs*

If that was a "few things", I wonder what'll happen when you've got much to say. My point is not to criticize you on you recent outburst but I do have a suggestion for you.

These are some pretty serious thoughts you have. I can already feel the passion with which you're trying to convey your point, sitting here, thousands of miles away from you, at home. My word of advice is to jot down these thoughts and write an essay of your own. Let us know what you think and I will be happy to engage you into any debate on a point with which I disagree.

Not sure really, except to say that I've never seen anything by Harry so clearly written down (honestly Harry --- I'm serious ---- I'm impressed). I don't mind negative feedback as long as it makes sense. Sometimes I just shake my head in disbelief at how a commentator has completely misunderstood a story, be it one of mine or not. Some of the comments are simply hateful, and you should read some of the e mails that I've received. Fortunately none of them have actually found me to kill me yet, and my Mother is long gone so that threat is also not possible. Chilleywilley made some good points as did others. Had more to say but got to go pick my old Jag up. Enjoyed the essay.

First, thanks for referring to "Katie's Massage," It was a very erotic and loving story.

I think there should be a category for Loving Wives and Loving Husbands and how they treat each other to erotic love.

I don't mind people using this comment board to express their views and even agree/disagree with other comments but any comments other than that are prone to...shall we say "unexplained dissapearance" from this comment board.

First I found this essay interesting, and the comments just as intriguing. It also goes hand in hand with a forum discussion from not to long ago.

So here is my one cent.

Most know that lately the Loving Wives category has come under intense scrutiny. The moderator has seen fit (which is her right) to forcibly move some stories (mostly marital strife) into other categories.

It does not take a rocket scientist to see that the vast majority of the top rated, and most read stories in this category use 'marital strife' as a major theme. Also these stories quite honestly are extremely well written and highly creative. I would name these stories and their writers, but you can read them in the category Hall of Fame. Their endings vary from BTB, to reconciliation, to divorce, and so on. They deal with infidelity, miscommunication, falling out of love, and many many more.

Now the cuckold crowd would say that it is because their stories get "one bombed" by the Burn The Bitch crowd. Well Literotica has programs in place to eventually purge those bombs, and even the "automatic 5's". Regardless they could be right, or not. We will never know if these stories continue to reside in the same category.

There was a very recent thread on the forum which for some reason mysteriously disappeared as I can no longer find it. The missing thread (of which I was a part of) debated this very issue. To say the very least, it had very interesting dialogue, and the moderator herself got involved, very involved. Since I can no longer refer to the thread (why?), I apologize in advance if my facts are not 100%.

Initially the moderator decided that the LW category should no longer be the place for posting 'marital strife' stories. Moving them to other lesser known categories was her plan. They were not erotic per the LW definition. A few stories were deleted too. Writers noticed and asked why? Some were told, others were not, but the majority were upset. I know that some who have posted comments here had their stories forced out. Most complained, and some found their stories back where they were originally posted.

As a side bar, LW was not the only category affected, but per usual the most vocal.

The discussion heated up as you can imagine, then finally cooler heads prevailed, and marital strife stories will continue in LW along with what she (the moderator) believes are the legitimate erotic LW stories, (cuckold, humiliation, etc.)

Let's cut to the chase, for reasons only known to her, basically she decided to wash her hands (Pontius Pilate), and leave things as is. Cowardly? Judge for yourself. Regardless of why, that was her decision as moderator of Literotica.

Personally, and I believe the majority would agree that the best solution would be "Marital Strife" added as a main Literotica category. This would separate the two warring factions so to speak. I believe this would enhance Literotica, and really make it stand out as a jewel where writers of erotica of any genre can showcase there stories.

I doubt this will ever happen, but if enough readers and writers speak up and ask the moderator for this, well, anything is possible. These essays and comments may start the moss covered ball rolling.

For those that think this is an essay, and why didn't I post it? Do I really have to answer that question?

Thank you,

M1

To Mostera1:

A thread dedicated to LW?

Oh man! You should've told that to me earlier. I can only imagine the colorful conversations and rants the users must've put on the thread.

Don't have a lot to add to Mostera 1 comment. There were actually two threads, one in story feedback and one in Author's hangout.

I was one of those who had a story taken down after a cuckold fan described it, to the moderator, as a snuff story (he hadn't actually read it and his description was totally inaccurate)

I've noticed arguments developing in other categories about what should and shouldn't be in them (where do you put a story where a son rapes his mother? Non-con or Incest?)

My solution would not be to add another category but to do away with them altogether, relying solely on tags to help the reader choose.

The people that complain really want nothing but their fetish in a particular category. They don't want to share with anyone. If Lit panders to them all we'll have a list of categories so long that you won't have time to read stories.

An interesting essay, but one that ignores the problems with people trying to cram all those types into one category. LW clearly wasn't intended for the dark, violent revenge type of stories, but now anything that isn't that gets flamed and the authors threatened and abused. And anyone who points this out gets labeled a troll and threatened and abused for their trouble. There are excellent stories in LW, but the category's community is so toxic and so disgusting that there's little point for new authors to post there, and until the comments get regulated in some way there won't be.

To frontlinecaster:

You're absolutely right about that fact but I'll add my own two cents out here.

I think the Loving Wives category has become more like Cheating Wives category, with almost every people taking sides and a very unhealthy dose of mud-slinging going out there, especially by the BTB crowd. As Mostera1 said, there should be another category like 'marital strife' or something and I think it's right because LW isn't for the divorce cases and relationship management.

Sorry soulful but I can't agree with that. You talk as if the self appointed category police only operate in Loving Wives. They do not they are spread throughout lit. There has recently been an argument raging about whether a story where a boy rapes his mother should be a) in incest b) in Non-Con or c) not on lit at all.

I've had the following,

Story posted in Romance "this story belongs in Loving Wives, You're too much of a wimp to put it there".

Story posted to Loving Wives moved to group sex because it featured a threesome.

She Chose Me posted in Loving Wives " this story should be posted somewhere else, anywhere else."

You will never satisfy the category police, of which FLC is one, until the category contains nothing but their chosen fetish.

Do we really want:

Tit fuck category

Foot job category

Double penetration category

Consensual Incest category

Non-consual incest category

Revenge category

Reconcilliation category

Willing Cuckold category

Forced Cuckold category

The list is endless.

Do away with categories and you do away with the problem.

Or simply learn what the categories mean. Rape doesn't belong in incest, non erotic violence and revenge doesn't belong in loving wives. The categories exist for a reason, to allow people to read stories they'll enjoy knowing they're not going to get suddenly surprised by something that offends them. I know I'm not going to stumble across rape stories in other categories since I find them extremely distasteful. And I shouldn't be reading about sociopaths and serial killers in loving wives.

Your plan would mean mixing gay male stories in with everything else, let's see how your violent, angry entitled fans like that.

There will be No problem because the will know they have to read the description or tags which tell them what sort of story it is. SOL has no categories and no category police. People read the tags and the description and know what to read. It really is the worst form of prejudice when you can't bear to be in the same room as someone not like you, or in this case can't stand to have a story that is not of your preferred type in your category.

We ran a traffic experiment here. We removed all warning and instruction signs from sections of road. Accidents went down because drivers had to think and make their own choices. Force people to think and they make better choices. The only people who don't like that sort of freedom are those that seek to make the rules for others to follow, and those who seek to enforce rules real or imaginary.

As soon as you introduce categories you introduce arguments about interpretation. Take your stated preference for stories with a dominant bull, submissive wife and a forcefully cuckolded husband. It has Dominance, Submission, Sadism and Massochism. That's three quarters of BDSM which in my book is where it belongs, yet you think it should be in Loving Wives, presumably because it features a wife.

Without categories all you need to do is enter bull,wife, forced cuckold into a tag search and you'll get only stories which are exactly what you want to read. You'd never have to find yourself reading about real people again. The downside is that you wouldn't have anything the moan about.

Erotica as with most things in life is a preference. If you interviewed 100 people on what is erotic, I imagine you would get quite a varied response. What I consider erotic you may not, and vice-versa.

The LW category by description of the moderators is for extramarital fun, swinging sharing, and more. The 'and more' is not defined. There is also a fetish category whose description ends with, 'and other kinky things'. The BDSM category description ends with, 'and other power games'.

As others have expressed their opinion on what belongs in a category, here is mine:

Does humiliation and forced cuckoldry belong in LW, or BDSM? To me that lifestyle is a POWER game and belongs in BDSM.

The fetish category is for kinky things. Stockings, high heels, diapers, and all THINGS not bondage related.

So where does marital strife fall? Supposedly, if the story does not have extra marital erotica it should not post there. Ahhh, but wait one moment does not the description say, 'AND MORE...'?

IMHO these two words provide the caveat that allows all marital strife stories to call LW home, whether they be revenge, reconciliation, and so on.

Again my opinion, the marital strife stories have very erotic scenes and have a strong following. Some detail the sex in affairs, some the 'revenge' sex, the reconciliation sex, the new spouse sex, and so on.

Some have graphic scenes, others have titillating scenes, but most are erotic. A funny thing, when I first found Lit, I truly believed the LW category was a sarcastic title. "Loving" wives, not Loving wives. Lol

For whatever reason and we each believe differently why, the top rated, most read, most commented stories have marital strife as their main theme. Fascinating. Yet some would claim balder dash. I read several stories where the loving wife tried to turn her husband into a cuckold, and got 'burned'. I also read a story where the husband wanted his loving wife to cuckold him, and he 'burned'. Both are in LW, and to each their own.

To summarize my opinions, humiliation stories and similar belong in BDSM.

Things which are not BDSM related belong in fetish.

Cheating wives, and marital strife belong in LW along with what is spelled out in the description..

Just because you or I believe a story is posted in the wrong category the argument is not relevant. It is as always the moderators decision where a story posts. My story Diamonds has gay and lesbian erotica, yet is posted in Romance. Why? Because I believe its main theme is a romance. I requested it, and the moderator must have agreed because that is its home.

The writer has some control of where their story posts which is fair, so if they believe their story belongs in gay, bdsm, non-erotic, loving wives, romance, or whatever the moderator will defer to the writer 99.999% of the time. Who am I to disagree, and who the hell are you to decide otherwise because it doesn't fit with your definition of erotica?? The moderator will not bow to your wishes, nor mine. There will be no changes, so deal with it, and let...it...go.

Honestly, Literotica for the price is the best out there. I also use SOL, but Lit has so much more. BUT, if I could change two things, I would not allow anonymous voting, and I would place tags on the stories first page.

A big thank you to TheSoulfulBard for his excellent essay, and for all the interesting feedback provided.

Thank you,

M1

If there's one thing in Lit that I've found surprising, it's the fact that I've come across stories having multiple themes being put into one category that I don't really expect while reading the beginnings of the story .

I'll take a example for this.

The 'Wanting it All' series hy DG Hear begins with a LW theme in the first chapter but has been put into BDSM category because it's the MAJOR THEME throughout the story.

'Irish Eyes', which is in Romance category, starts with a man finding about his cheating wife. It should be in the LW category, rigt? But it has been put into Romance because that's the majority of the theme of that story.

'Colleen' begins with an LW theme but is in incest because that's what the story is focussed upon.

Talking about incest rapes, they definitely go into incest category because any story containing incest, whether nonconsent/fetish/LW etc. will go into that category because the moderator gives more stress to Incest.

As for stories containing tit-fuck, foot fuck, whatever fucks are out there, it has to be put into a category by deciding upon what the major theme in the story is.

Increasing Categories isn't the solutiom to such problems. I think you should change the entire definition of LW and make sure that a story submitted into Lit is appropriately tagged and put on the top of the story.

Deyaken, I could, right now, submit a story that is nothing but two pages of a wife watching as her husband is brutally and graphically raped by a gang of her lovers. And I could write into the tag fields 'Loving Wife', 'Faithful Wife', 'Heterosexual', 'Romance'. And I could write a description for the story that reads 'A romantic get together between husband and wife'. And there is nothing in the submission process to stop me.

The very thing that you are so bent out of shape at me about, that I went through a few stories and used the 'Report' option that sits on the bottom of every one and pointed out material that had been missed by Laurel the first time or that they were categorized and/or tagged wrong, shows that that's not something that gets noticed. That is why we need categories, and they need to be enforced. I'd be fine with your tagging idea if the tags were assigned by moderators, not by the author, but I'm going to guess you'll be against that since anything that takes away your right to put up whatever you want whenever you want seems to get you all worked up.

And for what it's worth, there are submission guidelines. And one of them is that unless you are writing in 'Non-Erotic' your story should have an erotic focus to it. A story that has, as so many 'great' Loving Wives ones do, a author's note that says 'there is no sex in this story', and then just has anger and violence and murder in it, can anyone claim that's an erotic story? Not unless it's snuff, which is also not allowed on Lit.

Once more FLC shows that he has no understanding of writers or writing, Why on earth would a writer deliberately misdescribe their work. What drives a writer is people appreciating their work, not torrents of abuse, so what is to be gained, on a free site, by describing it and tagging it in such a manner that only people who hate it would read it. The very idea is farcical.

Yes there are guidelines and there is a moderator whose job it is to enforce those guidelines. but that is the point it is her job and no one else's. Once she has made her decision it should be accepted as final. We need a report facility because there are somethings that a moderator could not possibly know at the time she approved the story. Issues like plagiarism, defamation, and libel need to be protected against and that is the true purpose of the reporting facility. It is not there for people to use in an effort to impose their opinion on everyone else. The category police choose to act like children and use it thus "please miss, Johnny broke the school rules miss. Look miss, he's doing it again".

My issue is not with FLC it is with Laurel, our moderator and site owner, who showed that she didn't have the courage of her convictions (as a supporter of free speech). But that is a different argument and one that shouldn't be aired here.

I agree Soulful, it is the main thrust of the story that should be the deciding factor but on a number of occasions I have found it very difficult to isolate that. I would love to be able to post in multiple categories because my stories rarely fit just one.

Which category something fits in and interpretation of guidelines comes down to personal opinion, and everyone is entitled to their own. Not yours, not mine, but their own. We have a moderator who is supposed to have the final decision. The problem is that we have small groups of people who are not willing to accept the moderators decision. They want to impose their opinion on everyone else and drive all stories that they don't like out of their chosen category. What they actually do is drive authors away from the site. You can't get rid of these ego-trippers who feed off the idea of telling other people what to do. What you can do is remove the medium they use to drive people away.

As I said before, remove the categories and you remove the category police. Of course they will fight this because it takes away the bit of power they crave and imagine they have.

I really apologize for confusing LBGrant with DG Hear in my previous comment. It was LBGrant who wrote the 'Wanting it All' series in the BDSM category.

Apologies yet again.

The report button is there because by her own admission Laurel can't read every single story that gets submitted. She skims. She makes judgement calls. She also in the forums encourages people to pick up on mistakes and report them. It's why 'violating submission guidelines' is a category on the menu there.

You also don't even understand what I'm arguing. Get rid of categories and you'll have to fought over tags. Some authors don't like using them because they're 'spoliers', others because they're lazy. Some, contrary to what you believe are just trolls. The tags would have to serve the same purpose as categories at that point. Your readers would froth at the mouth and send death threats because a story not labeled as gay sex slipped through. Granted, your readers call me names and threaten me because I don't like snuff stories, so maybe that's unavoidable.

Point is there have to be rules and they have to be enforced, whether it's categories or tags or story descriptions or whatever. Some authors can't stand even that little bit of policing and so they'll take their ball and go home, hurting themselves way more than anyone reading here.

I'm guessing that's why you're still here arguing, no one cares that you stopped submitting, so you have to come back going on and on about all the other authors like you who are leaving. No really you are! Pay attention to you, because any minute now you're going to leave! And we'll all be so sorry when you're gone!

I agree with caregorization of stories as well as its further tagging.

To explain this I'll take an example-

You're in a bookstore. Make it a BIG bookstore with hundreds of thousands of works ranging from sexual to homosexuality to non-erotic.

Now, why do you think people make sections dedicated to a particular topics, that too with sub-categories?

So that it's easier for us to select and read stories from the category that we like from the millions of the other books out there. I can't imagine Lit without categorization.

It will be chaotic, without a doubt.

As for tagging being taken in poorly by the authors and writers out here, I agree with this. You can't just add everything into the 10 boxes without creating a spoiler before someone even reads your work. It's there to help a reader search a story to his/her particular liking.

Sorry soulful but your bookstore argument doesn't hold water simply because ebooks and estories are not physical items that you have to go and look for. they are virtual thing that will be brought to you by a search engine with just a few keystrokes.

Look I'm not saying you shouldn't keep categories, If that is what you want fine. What I am saying is that creating a few more categories will not solve the problem of people setting themselves up as self appointed guardians of a category.

You have to think about what drives those people. They get a buzz out of telling people what the can or cannot read they see it as having power over people. Usually in real life these people are powerless but as the old joke goes "in Cyberspace no one knows you are a dog" They are just lesser versions of the people who put on a uniform and pretend to be police officers.

All the time you give these people categories to patrol they will patrol them. They kid themselves that they are keeping the category safe for right thinking people, that is people that think like them. These people will continue to try and intimidate writers and yes intimidate the moderator by filing multiple spurious reports.

All I am saying is that if you want to be rid of these people who want to force their opinion on all of us. You have to do away with their habitat.

Keep categories mean you keep the category police.

Laurel claims that she does read them all and that is the reason for the amount of time it takes for a story to be approved. I would hate to think she didn't even read my story before she gave it her" editors choice" award.

They have a rule in the Oxford debating society."Never ever make it personal because the minute you make it personal and start hurling insults it shows that you know you've lost the argument."

Now I'm sure we would all like to see that post in which Laurel asked for your help, but that is beside the point.

Oh I understand your argument alright even from your ridiculous example. Your argument is that if it's possible for someone to do something they will do it. Now it's possible for the US to destroy the world twice over. Should I start digging the shelter now or are you going to intervene and tell them that it doesn't fit in your category. Yes that IS how ridiculous your example was.

Now you claim that fans of mine have threatened you an called you names. From the emails I've read that you sent to others you are no slouch in the name calling department. In fact you've even done in these comments. If any of my fans/friends have threatened you then show me the evidence and I'll write to them. Better still take the evidence to the police. I don't know about where you are but the police here are getting quite good at tracking down and prosecuting people for cyber bullying.

The ball is in your court, put up or shut up.

Now we get to your final paragraph where you threw the toys out of the pram. I have never said that I had stopped posting on Lit I said I would have to give it some thought. When I have a story that might be suitable for Lit I will do just that. In the mean time I will continue to contribute to discussions with my fellow authors. If you have a problem with that, then I'm afraid you are just going to have to suck it up.

You know full well that on another thread I went on record as accepting that my posting is so erratic that no one would miss me. That's not strictly true all those lovely people who give me little red hearts (another one today) might miss me for a while but someone else will come along and anyway most of them know where they can find my work.

Given your hatred of stories where wives and suffer the consequences of being unfaithful, and your preference for stories where husband is bullied and humiliated I am beginning to think that you maybe a misandrist.

Since you like putting words in her mouth.

"It's very hard to get these things right when you have 100-200 stories to get through a day. I'll admit mistakes are made. I basically try to get a feel for the story and go from there.

Things that are never okay: graphic and explicit castration, mutilation, and murder for the purposes of sexual titillation.

If you read something on the site that feels squicky to you, please do report it using the REPORT THIS STORY feature. And please be specific. If it's a 20-page story and you report it with, "Snuff!" or "Too rough!" but don't say where or why, it will take longer for me to check."

She wants people to report stories that have been missed during the screening process. It's why there is a report feature, so she can go back, reread in more detail, and make the decision, whether it's to pull the story or, yes, re-categorize it.

As for fans threatening me, they were anonymous comments I got after you started putting my name up everywhere and singling me out as the /only/ person reporting stories. I no longer accept anonymous feedback, that solves the problem. Interesting how you never mention any one else who has done the same thing, which I know for a fact others have done. I simply take credit for what I did, because I thought reporting several stories was the right thing to do.

Oh, and there were the personally insulting e-mails I got from 'Ken Smith' from England who wasn't you somehow, those were hilarious. But you've likely seen all of those, since despite that totally not being you e-mailing and claiming to be someone else he seemed to share everything he said and did with you for you to reference it.

On the topic at hand. Do a simple experiment for me. Go into Loving Wives, and find any story tagged with 'bi male' or 'gay male'. Now, read the comments. See how angry it makes people that that story is in their category, even with your precious story tags to warn them. Now tell me again how the audience as a whole, especially in the backwards, hateful, bitter old men club that is Loving Wives are 'open' to stories and will just not read ones they don't like. And they don't call for a story to be re-categorized, they threaten the author, insult them personally, call them hateful, homophobic names, and flame them over and over again anonymously. You're right, that's /way/ better than me simply using the report button a few times for stories that I felt violated Lit's stated submission guidelines.

Take your goddamn bickering outta here! I'm going to delete irrelevant comments out of this comment board soon after this.

Oh yeah, I tried to post another essay but here's what Lit tells me:

This is better suited to our forum: http://

forum.literotica.com/

WTF!

Welcome to the club.

Hahahahaha!

Nice review of the LW category which I personally have written many stories in! I find most of my real-life adventures revolve around the LW category because that's what makes hubby and me tick!

I agree with your view of stories that depict willing cuckolds.

{Lines such as "I was humiliated and angry, but I had a raging hard-on and I loved her even more" are a big no-no from my side.}

Psychology regards cuckold fetishism as a variant of masochism, the cuckold deriving pleasure from being humiliated. I'm active at another porn story site that is over-run with cuckolds who gleefully describe sharing their wives with friends and strangers. I deplore this attitude and find it very unmanly.

Perhaps Literotica should rename this category "Slut wives", as this is the accepted term for women who cuckold their husbands.

Shouldn't Hubby-wanting-their-wives-to-fuck kept in fetish category?

Don't you think that LW category definition should be changes to accomodate the stories?

To marriedpervs, AZMotherlover:

I'm glad you liked my essay. Thank you for your kind words of appreciation.

To Devil_Anonymous:

The purpose was not the classification or segregation of stories in LW.

Yes, I think willing cuck stories should be in fetish. Laurel herself changes categories as she deems fit but these days, it has become the norm to have a BTB story in LW.

I am new to the LW category on Lit and only considered it because I was encouraged to by a reader who commented on my series in the Erotic Couplings category. I'm enjoying the story I'm creating and the characters living in it. I have noticed that it's a very critical and tough to please crowd, indeed. They tend to score lower than in other categories. What I'm writing now is probably better than my other pieces, yet I'm struggling to get a 4 star rating. Anyway, I love what you wrote here, it's actually opened my eyes to the category and its readers quite a bit.

Good sound advice......bill

And a good write.

Interesting to read someone's analysis of a literotica category .. the controversial Loving Wives.

I'm more into the swinger category, or a variant of the reconciliation type where there's a decent analysis of the psychology and emotions involved.

Of the two other 'cheating' variants, you very rarely see the sort of behavior that I'd consider the first step to take for any cheated spouse: get a sense for what the fuck happened and why.

The revenge type story just turns me off. They read like emotionally immature reactions. I'll tell you what always comes to my mind: what has happened to the personal lives of those readers who enjoy such stories? They sound as though they have a lot of unresolved pain.

Type 4 'walk-away' stories always have what for me is a major plot flaw, a major logical inconsistency. They also rank low on the emotional maturity scale.

Here's the flaw: the cheated protagonist is presented as living a perfectly happy life, fully in love with his wife. Then the infidelity is discovered, he walks away no questions asked, and usually, quite quickly, finds the next perfect love partner.

Questions which such stories need to address: (1) why was the guy so clueless in the first place if this perfect partner was in fact a cheating whore? and (2) if he had such unconditional love in the first place, he'd ask questions, not walk away.

Walking away means (in psychological context of story) that he's living in a dream world anyway.

I thought you missed it, but then you wrote:

BUT if a part of the fault lies with you, REMEMBER - NO MATTER how many more relationships you jump into after that, it'll always end up in a failure because you just never seem to realize your fault.

Bulls eye!! People who lash out in revenge, or walk away, are in denial. They're not facing up to the possibility that they've somehow contributed (not necessarily 'blame'). It's a relationship, he's involved. Something went wrong. Figure it out, then walk away if needed.

I'm just saying, this is what I'm still waiting to read .. a story that analyzes why a so-called loving husband would act this way.

After reading your comments, I went and read Katie's Massage. You were right, I was extremely aroused and had to use my vibrator. Needless to say, I had multiple orgasms

I agree to live better with other is the best revenge when the ex cheating spouse lives wronger life.........

So my best BTB story is Vulcez "How Are You?".

However I enjoy the elaborated revenge stories too as FrancisMacomber "The Six O'Clock News Slot".

Unfortunatally in a few USA states the ex husbands do not have to pay children support for bastard kids and the serial cheater ex wife loses the children custody as in Georgia so VIVA the successful minority who did successful revenge in imagined stories on cheating wives!

Is the real enemy. What passes as burn the bitch, is usually just some poor smuck trying to escape from the agony of finding what he thought was the love of life, was actually the bane of his existence. After having his heart ripped out he finds the courts couldn't give a shit about right and wrong and who's at fault. All they want is their pound of flesh. Talk about setting the stage for a little righteous indignation!

These are the stories that speak to me. If you believe in the sanctity of marriage, the betrayal of all that is Holy is the most powerful drama I know of; and if the wronged party (BTB means Burn The Bitch or Bastard to me) can survive to love again; it's also inspirational.

Reconciliation stories for the most part are an epic fail as they just aren't believable. I mean, if she loves him so much, why did she cheat on him in the first place? Yes, a few of them are believable and I rejoice in their victory.

The swinging and cockold stories are just sickening to me. By no stretch of the imagination can they be considered marriages. They're just fetish stories.

The best example of a real loving wife that I can think of off the cuff is "If I Fell" by Harddaysknight.

Most of us get married and can identify with the situations described above.

I love to read other's favorites the stories tend to be better than a lot of offerings posted. There are just to many to stories here and my memory has become a curse. Goodhusband does a good job of writing about the wimpy "little fellow" who serves his wife but has limited sex with her, and raises a leval of frustration that I didn't know existed.

Your on the money with revenge I find some scenarios to be very satisfying.

I am fascinated by swinging the ability to share and to know what my other half desires that I don't or can't provide. Imagine all that could be possible besides std's in a situation with other women and for her men. To scorch the earth bare because she took a ride on some other cock I know its not what I would want in real life but in a story I'm delighted and yes I am becoming jaded by all this.

A very well-written, clearly-conveyed read.... and spot-on conclusions! 5/5