All Comments on 'Some More about Loving Wives'

Now that you've mentioned it, I did forget to add the reder's reaction to the LW. Anyway, a comment on my story by swingerjoe sums it all. He has aptly defined and described the BTB crowd in Lit in precise words.

I think that the little story you've told us right now invokes an interest of 'What happened next?' rather than 'How did it happen?' among the general crowd and hence, the 'Well done' sort of replies and comments.

But, you forgot to point out the great number of "low brow" readers out there who thinks BTB is good for family/children and friends.

I do wonder how many of the readers (who seem to be in the majority and favor a cheating spouse) have actually been burnt by a cheater. Well, been there and have the t-shirt. Tends to make you a little bitter and somewhat intolerant of a cheater..

Time for my two cents. In simple terms. She cheated and got caught. He's a crook banker who can destroy her and does. Who's right?

No one.

She's a cunt and he's an asshole.

Both are losers.

Great little tale. It's just a shame that so few of us are interested.

wanted to say. But, please, let me add a few words, specifically about one comment that they are both cheaters, so who cares. One of those cheaters has all the power (the Wall Street person), and that fact matters (certainly the drug lord who kills, maims, and cheats bears a larger burden of guilt than does the crack addict who steals to feed a habit). More: as George Bernard Shaw once pointed out, the worst thing about being a liar is that the liar will then find it impossible to believe what others say to him/her. The Wall Street type here, himself a cheater, liar and thief, will find it impossible to see others as honest. To equate his cheating with hers is unfair, I think. He is a conscious cheater (of the law, of others in his business, of society's norms), she might have cheated once while drunk. To make their crimes equal seems to me to be unfair.

One other thing: I thought that we are largely a nation that at least gives lip service to Jesus' thinking that we should forgive sinners who seek forgiveness. Is there any indication in the story that the man involved is in anyway thinking of reforming himself, mending his ways?

There is a big difference from the quality of writing and whether or not you like the writer's characters and theme. For example, I really like Xleg's Consequences but cannot relate to either character and do not condone their behavior. In this case, I actually care about the story and characters and can't wait for the next installment. That is not always the case. I don't read incest or S & M stories and many LW stories that are only about revenge because I do not like the theme and would not enjoy the story no matter how well written.

The problem is some people cannot separate the story from reality. Also, there must be some men out there who have really been hurt by the women in their lives and have to vent. Apparently it makes them feel better to write insults instead of just skipping the story. That's the way it is so I say ignore them.

There is another category of Loving Wives stories that I am not sure has gotten mentioned. That is the LW story that is based upon emotion and drama and normally ends up with the Wife really being sorry and repenting and ultimately deserving and being forgiven but not always. Ohio, and many others are expert in this. The good story of any kind will have character development to get the reader involved in the story, a plot and emotions. At least that is the kind I like.

anon.1

We all read the comments on our own and other's stories, they are often insightful, and inciteful.. However it is instructive to put things in perspective, taking one of my stories as an example:

it received

97,190 views

1497 votes 1 vote for every 65 views

67 comments, 1 comment for every 1,450 views

I have concluded that however many vituperative comments a story gets, they are a always very small part of the viewers, perhaps as few as 30-40 individuals.. Voter score is a little better measure of quality, but they too are subject people who vote 1* because the idiot did not personally approve of the spelling or some aspect of the character's actions, and of course scores can be gamed.

So probably the number of literate comments is the best measure of it's merit in the eyes of the audience for that particular type of story, within the category you chose to place it..

Chilley

I read with interest SoulfulBard's essay, and have been working up what probably would/will be a long response. And you thought the same think, and posted your own essay. Well, as an anon, I have to contain my reactions to the comments. It is funny that many people open a story to read the comments FIRST, or skim the story, and digest the comments. It is clear, that whatever opinions people have about the LW category, it IS the comments section that has made it "famous".

You make a very valid point in your open ended scenario example here, that what would be more of a factor (in reader enjoyment) than the actions of the characters, is how the reader PERCIEVED those actions.

It is well known there WILL be a decisive split in response: many say "Good, she got what she deserved!"; others say "Damn, why couldn't he have given her a second chance?"

Then it goes back to what the author's intentions were, and how skillfully you provided enough character development, background, confrontation, and aftermath....thus allowing the reader to be swayed by the AUTHOR'S perspective, as to what was right or wrong between the two spouses. Despite the best intentions of an author to provide "a compelling argument" towards a specific POV, many on BOTH sides of the LW audience fence post can NOT be swayed. I feel, as an observer and reader, that THIS is the source of the prime frustration for both authors and readers alike.

I think that every author, OR commenter, tries to write something that will make people think. Share a POV. Illicit a response. The category survives the turmoil, because in LW, you WILL SURELY GET A RESPONSE! Now will it be the one you were looking for? Well......

It pisses me off when people blame the anons. I agree that many anon comments tend to run of the "abusive/hate/vitriol" type. But then again, so do many member comments. Hell, there are "career" commenters who are JUST as famous as the authors around here, and they can be just as mean or callous as the most dreaded "ignorant" anon. ( Just a few examples: HIV, Karen woods, Can'tbuyme, Lord SlamDog, Duna, and lets not forget Betrayedbylove- who has already commented here). Oh, there are so many others, and after reading Lit for over a year and 1/2, one gets a sense of who these people are, and how they feel, even if they have only authored few or no stories.

I LIKE staying anon, and have a few reasons why. Chiefly, it is because, when I comment, I really try to be constructive, thoughtful and positive with my responses. I like to prove that not ALL anons are ignorant trolls. That said, I know that once or twice (three-four max I SWEAR!), I have slammed a story that represents a lifestyle that I cannot comprehend, and that the fetish elements employed really make me feel like it was inappropriate for the category. Typing out a rant, DID make me feel better, although I do not have the demons inside that this cathartic release, would make it seem like I am battling. Really, the stories here that have pissed me off, have been the ones were this extreme thing is presented as normal, characters clearly demonstrating having blackness in their hearts, professing to understand what true love is. Bah! The author might be doing their best to "show me something", and like a circus freak sideshow exhibit, I'll take a look. But to try to THEN convince me that this is normal, loving, healthy, and should be accepted and embraced universally??? No, I am sorry. I can not.

Lately, though, I have been doing a lot of thinking about the types of stories presented in LW, and I am NOT the only one. Some interesting, and insightful theories have been shared, and I HAVE found myself relaxing a bit towards MY standards of what should or shouldn't be presented in LW.

It is interesting that you mention JPB in your essay. I consider him the pioneer of "anything goes" in the LW. Instead of posting all over the site in different categories, he decided to incorporate elements of all the different categories into his LW stories. If one JPB story gets you angry, then keep reading, eventually you'll find one that addresses your particular kink. I think that is why JPB is so enduring popular on this site. He literally tried to write something for EVERYBODY. A lot of authors can't do that. They only feel comfortable writing one type of story. If that is the case, I would think that those would find the category that best suits them, and work on building up a dedicated audience within it. But then we get back to the problem with the categories.

And I won't even get started on the story tags......

I do think that you make a great point in revealing just how important audience response is towards gaging overall popularity in a story. Authors are BEST served in identifying their target audience, and catering to that crowd. If OTHERS that are NOT the target audience decide to drop by and get nasty, well....

immature as they may be, closed minded and intolerant, possessed of a tenuous grasp on reality, the fact remains, it is a public forum, and censorship is JUST as wrong as hurting someone's feelings, or offending their morals. I say, post in LW and enjoy vast feedback. Do not seek to block ANY comments. Take each for what it is, and don't take it personally. Authors without a thick skin will not be successful, even if this is just a hobby. There will be people who say stupid things about you and your work. But there will be PLENTY of others who will give you something to think about that just might help you improve. Just like the logic argument of people who are perplexed over other people who get angry at fictional characters in free stories........so too are authors who can't separate the wheat from the chaff, and can't tell which comments to ignore/laugh-off, and which ones just MIGHT help make the next story better. And just remember that while one anon might give you a one word response and a 1* bomb, the next anon might write you an overly verbose rambling essay in your comments section. (of course...that will be me, IF you have given me something to think about!)

Thanks!

Of course, the "cheating wife" may be telling her therapist about a drunken restore experience; the husband was suspicious because the wife had become distant (due to trauma) and all he cares about from the therapist (who will be paid more for more salacious information even if not quite correct) is the fact that his wife was penetrated by another man, regardless of the situation and consent. Who knows, maybe she was blackmailed into protecting her scumbag husband because of the multiple felonies he commits on an almost daily basis - she's the only reason he's actually able to plot "revenge".

Or, she could be completely shallow and be a serial cheater caring about nobody's emotions.

You see, we don't know enough about the situation to actually BTB. I know, though, that many men could care less, and are quick to find themselves to be the saintly aggrieved party.

Get over it already. Someone may have burned you in the past (who hasn't been? And it's a rare reader who hasn't cheated on someone else!), but you're doing nobody any favors - especially yourself - by rehashing the past, you're just tearing open that wound and adding more poison. Do you actually enjoy the pain? You get off on it?

As an avid reader here, I read loving wives stories which express various levels of betrayal. The rationalizing, the logical or illogical expression of the character(s) perspective are interesting to me. In my country we are running at about 60% of marriages ending in divorce. I find catharsis in stories which elevate the level of betrayal and the recovery of the betrayed. I think all of the loving wives stories help to express the varying reasons people get married in the first place. Take away the document and the legalese and (possibly children), it is simply erotic couplings gone bad (sour for one party).

Another thing to note is that when the man cheats,the btb,she is a slut,those who reconcile are wimps,but the cheating hubby..crickets.Hubby cheats,then find out wife cheated,they want her burned at the stake,he is the victim..

The contradiction shouldn't be a surprise,that he is a lying,cheating scum,but she is the bad one,you see this in politics,too.The rabid right that gets worked up about morality and Jesus ,are anti abortion and anti gay,support politicians who want to strip the social safety net for the poor,support politicians who call the poor lazy and parasites,when last I checked I don't think Jesus would cut taxes on the rich and pay for it by cutting social programs for the poor,nor do I think Jesus would call the poor lazy....black and white thinking.does that.

Brad took no oath to be exclusively faithful to the Government, Legal system or to respect the privacy of Counseling. Try again.

This is literotica. Not the FT, not the law review. So the audience on this forum is going to respond to the sexual theme of the story. It's why we come here.

If you want an audience to focus on capitalist critique, or jurisprudence or morality or philosophy then you're probably posting your material on the wrong site.

Just sayin....

Most Lit readers don't understand irony.

I could introduce a friend so "This is Tony, bit of a wanker, but we like him." The "bit of a wanker" would be me being ironic. I don't think Tony is a wanker, he's a good mate, if he wasn',t he would never let me get away with saying that. However most Lit readers would say "How can you possibly like him? You just called him a wanker."

I tried a similar thing when I wrote Smoking Kills. It was ironic. The husband, on the spur of the moment set up a situation in which the wife's lover will blow the pair sky high by lighting his post coital cigarette. Later when the husband tells the TV newsroom that it is not him that is dead. he say's "I'm very much alive, but then I don't smoke"

I got congratulations on a great BTB story. I got cuckold fans trying to start a flame war because the husband killed his wife for being unfaithful (he didn't actually kill anybody) They obviously hadn't read the story.

One sad person, with an axe to grind about what should be in Loving Wives, reported it as a snuff story and Laurel took it down.

The moral would seem to be don't use irony on Lit, or if you do, maybe you should include a health warning.

WARNING

The following story contains irony. If you do not understand Irony or expect all meanings to be literal, STOP READING NOW

Yeah, it's almost like LW is so full of bitter, angry misogynists that they can't comprehend any story that is more complex than 'woman bad, man good!'. Seriously, it's a toxic, unhealthy environment that attracts angry, lonely men and gets them all riled up with hatred towards evil, wicked women. The whole section ought to just be scrapped at this point.

The typical loving wives anonymous asshole learned to read essays! Wonderful, now this section can end up as toxic and worthless as Loving Wives is.

My experiences with readers is similar to yours. Tons of hits at first, then they tail off. The rating seems to always go up. I do seem to see new readers in waves, however. I assume it is because a story gets highlighted now and then.

As for my readers opinions, they are all over the map. As one noted, "You have really hit a nerve". I don't tolerate vicious or vulgar comments and routinely delete those, but I don't delete negative comments as long as they aren't offensive. It is startling to me how wide a range of comments I get, and how seriously people take these stories.

I write in the first person, so my stories appear to be a personal narrative on real events, but I assure you they are just stories. I have used some personal experiences and aquaintances as the basis of some characters so I could have a vision for looks, personalities, etc., but in no case did any of the events ever occur. Yet, many readers respond as though they are counselling me about my marraige, which is interesting to say the least. Many comments are personal attacks. I assume these are people who have been hurt, or have low self esteem. They view differences with fear and anger and represent the worst of people. If anything I take joy in provoking these people. It is too easy, really!

If I have learned anything it is that there are a lot of controlling men with no respect for women who posses an unusally distorted view of the world likely grounded in low self esteem. The can't see past their own machismo. The reality of the world is lost on them. There is no doubt a cheating spouse is a dire thing and that it can hurt you to your core, but neither is a woman a thing to be possessed. A marraige is beautiful thing but it is consensual. It needs to be worked at everyday because The real world is full of temptations, and reasons to question one's relationships. That is the key theme behind Loving Wives. What are the implications and outcomes of cheating, swinging, etc? Why does it occur? How does it end? How does it feel to be in these situations?

Undoubtedly the Loving Wives stories fall into a number of subcategories. I am not sure I agree with all that you and others have named and I think some were missed. Those previously named categories seem to focus more on outcome rather than theme. For example, revenge and reconcilliation (or not) are outcomes of a cheating spouse scenario. Watching your wife with another partner could be either cuckhold or voyeurism based. There are also basic swinging and serendipitous encounters that fall into this category. For me the most erotic are the serendipitous encounters couples have.

When I write for Literotica I wish only to invoke thought, not to be judged because someone doesn't like the topic. But, that doesn't seem the be the way it is for some. Instead, like in so many other public Internet forums, people use anonymity to flame that with which they disagree or don't understand. If only they knew how much we learn about them in spite of their anonymity, and how weak, shallow, ignorant, and most of all fearful, they have portrayed themselves.

Regardless, Loving Wives will continue to be the most divisive category on Literotica because of the emotions it evokes in people. Unlike other categories like Erotic Encounters or First Time, Loving Wives hits us where we live. It evokes emotions other categories do not. It goes beyond erotica and enters the realm of relationships social issues, and personal conflicts. Loving Wives enrages those that have been cheated on before. It makes those who have been made to feel less a man because of a cheating wife lash out vehemently against another experiencing the same thing. When a comment viciously attacks " a wimp" often we see a man who has been made to feel this way in his own past. The comments are aimed at himself, not the author or character in a story whether he realizes it or not. The more vicious the comment, the worse the hurt.

As an experiment, I would take samples of the LW stories and gender-switch the dialogues.

In my opinion a number of the male writers contributing stories to the LW category suffer with deep-rooted gender confusion.

The commenting misogynist trolls of the BTB lynchmob are cowering so deep into their closets, they are what I call spelunkers.

Lacking the psychological fortitude or intellectual capacity to confront and take control of their abyssal fears.

In Loving Wives and had a large amount of abuse because my protagonist was a loving wife who had sex with her husband.

Apparently if a wife is not a cheater then she isn't loving... Never understood that.

Nice well written piece. I have read many L/W stories and men's and women's infidelity have been treated equally. I also think in real life the decision to inflict revenge (or end a marriage,) on the protagonist shouldn't be in the preview of the reader. Voicing your opinion of the cheated parties reaction is like, well political reactions. I would much rather read comments about the writers ability to convey a story...Besides, infidelity being the number one cause of divorce needs no additional condemnation.