Somebody please explain what the HELL is up with my man???

Okay. As you all know, I'm absolutely in love with my Music Man. We've been together for almost two years, and we are now engaged...probably getting married in the spring. Running away to Mexico and all that good stuff.

And as most of you already know, he moved in with me this week. Yippee! We were really, really happy to finally be spending more time together. I think he was actually more excited than I was, if that's possible.

So now he's moved in, everything should be great and dandy, right?

I knew we would have some adjusting to do. A person can't just move in with another person and not have to adjust, compromise, and deal with little quirks. But this problem goes beyond a little quirk.

The day after he moved in, we had a massive fight. About sex, of all things! The one thing we never argued about. We were always on the same wavelength, always really in-tune with one another. The fight seemed to be about something that completely surprised and puzzled me. He said that I want sex too much. I pointed out that he always wanted it as often as I did, maybe even more, so what had changed? A reasonable discussion, I thought, until he lost his temper.

Anyway, this was a fight in which he yelled 'fuck you' and stormed out of the house. Okay. I could deal with a little temper tantrum, if that's all it was. But when he came back, and we sat down to talk rationally, he informed me that this is the way it's going to be: he wants sex maybe once a week. And that's it. And it's not going to change. So get used to it.

Okay. So I'm completely, totally, dumbfounded. This is a man who loved to have sex five times a DAY if he had the time. We were all over each other. And then...boom. Just like that, he wants sex once a week, when our average was ten times? I understand little dips in a relationship, and dry spells, and we've been through all that. But this isn't just a dry spell. This is him telling me that our sex life is changing, drastically. And immediately.

What the HELL is up with that? We've always been good at communication...God knows, I'm always one of those pushing 'communication!' on this board, right? We learned how to do it, and we did it. That communication is what made us click so well together. But now, he's determined that this is the way it's going to be...and he has no explanation, other than I 'want it too much.' HUH?

Needless to say, I'm pretty damn upset. And confused as hell. And over the last several days, he has barely touched me, hardly talked to me, and in general acted like a roommate instead of a fiance. His withdrawing of affection is becoming frightening. He assures me that I have done nothing wrong, and I know there isn't anyone else.

So now I'm wondering what to do. I lay on my side of the bed, after he turns away from me, and wonder if I'm willing to live like this. I love him more than anything. But I can't imagine a life in which our sex life changes so drastically, and at his whim, without giving a thought to what I need.

Am I right to feel betrayed, because what we were for almost two years has now been sidelined by what he says he wants now? And regardless of that, what do I DO? I asked him last night if he would have a problem with me using toys, and he got really upset with me. I mean, what does he expect???

Can you all help me work through this one?

You have all given me great advice in the past, and I always appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

S.

Hmmm. Sheath, I always find your posts to be wise and well-written. I wish I could offer the same to you. This, frankly, is puzzling. Just to play devil's advocate, is there a possibility he has some mixed feelings about moving in with you? I went back and re-read your post several times and I swear it sounds like he is pushing you away, or actually, it crossed my mind that something is scaring him. And he's reacting to his fear with anger? I certainly can understand your hurt and confusion. Men are most assuredly a puzzle wrapped in an enigma covered in a riddle. I've been married for almost 26 years; when I come to a complete understanding of my man, I will consider my earthly work to be done.

I guess my best advice is to talk, talk and talk. I'm sure this will work itself out. My very best to you--you deserve it.

BG

Sheath,

I'm sorry you're experiencing this; it must be really painful.

First off, my gut reaction is that this isn't about sex at all. It may be about control, it may be about perceived freedom (or lack thereof), it may be about the move-in being perceived as an immutable step toward marriage.

If he was doing it ten times a week (we won't even begin to talk about the level of my jealousy here), then it ain't about sex. You'd have heard about that a long time ago. Like when he went surprisingly limp at an inopportune time! (Freud had a few things right, they just weren't about women mostly.)

Anyway, that's my initial reading of your situation. Arguments that go off the charts are almost never about what they appear to be about on the surface.

Just another quick thought: he probably picked sex because it's such a powerful influence in your life and so closely tied to your identity.

The guy is probably hurting somewhere. You may have to do some searching to find out where to kiss to make it better.

Good luck.

midwestyankee said:

Sheath,

I'm sorry you're experiencing this; it must be really painful.

First off, my gut reaction is that this isn't about sex at all. It may be about control, it may be about perceived freedom (or lack thereof), it may be about the move-in being perceived as an immutable step toward marriage.

If he was doing it ten times a week (we won't even begin to talk about the level of my jealousy here), then it ain't about sex. You'd have heard about that a long time ago. Like when he went surprisingly limp at an inopportune time! (Freud had a few things right, they just weren't about women mostly.)

Anyway, that's my initial reading of your situation. Arguments that go off the charts are almost never about what they appear to be about on the surface.

Just another quick thought: he probably picked sex because it's such a powerful influence in your life and so closely tied to your identity.

The guy is probably hurting somewhere. You may have to do some searching to find out where to kiss to make it better.

Good luck.

Click to expand...

midwestyankee said it exactly correctly.

Let me just add that I could've bought a garage full of tools or a good used sports car with the money I spent on therapy to learn this much about myself. And one thing I learned is that when I really blow my stack and attack the LOML in a truly sensitive place, it's because I'm off the charts frightened about something.

Your guy may be different, but the actions just seemed so familiar to me. Happy to take a PM if you want.

mwy

Sheath,
What words can one offer, what advice can one give? Reading your post, its impossible not to feel something of the confusion and angst you must be feeling.

Now why would a man suddenly go from a fun loving sexy guy to a cold fish, practically overnight? What has changed in his life? He's moved in with you! He's gone from engaged to being ENGAGED and already living with his future spouse. I may be way off base here, but I think he's probably feeling a major case of the male commitment syndrome. Suddenly everything you and he have talked about in the past has become more real, more factual.

I'm not saying that he isn't willing to commit, but the fact of his moving in with you may have jolted his system, scared him deep down, and he's lashing out at the person he feels is responsible for his predicament.

My advice to you would be to give him a lot of space for the next week or two. Then sit him down for the TALK. I know you probably don't want to hear this, but you need to resolve this before you take the relationship to the next level. In a way you're lucky, your not yet married, so if this issue isn't resolveable, you can back out with any major legal hassles. Give him enough space that he can realize its ok if he wants to scratch his balls or fart on the couch. Then sit him down and try to iron out why there is such a difference between your sex lives before and after moving in together.

We're rooting for ya!

Thank you all for the advice. I knew I would hear some great words of wisdom here, and I certainly have.

The more I think about what you have all said and the way he's acting, it does seem like he's trying to push me away...and given the fact that he has moved in with me, he probably is craving that space he had up until last week.

It's good to think that he's not attacking the sexual side of our lives because it's a sexual problem, per se. It makes sense that he would target that part of us if he's so afraid...mostly because it's always been our way of feeling close, and our way of communicating when words weren't enough. In short, what happens in the bedroom was always the essence of what we were.

It's hard to imagine this man suddenly being stricken by that fear of commitment, but given the circumstances, I can see how it's possible. I noticed that yesterday he referred to me as his 'girlfriend'...strange, because I've been his fiance for a while! But now that a fear of commitment has been mentioned, it makes a little more sense, doesn't it?

Rambling again, but talking through it helps!

Thanks again for all the comments. I appreciate the support you have all shown for me and my man, not just on this situation, but in many others. I'm so glad there is such a caring community to turn to for good advice.

S.

I doubt this is about sex as well. And I do agree with Pink Orchid in that your best resource is going to be other men.

On the surface, I would agree with Bobmi and MWY. I think this is more to do with control and adjusting to a major change in his life. An important piece of the puzzle might be: has he ever lived with a S/O or been married before? I've only lived with one b/f for a very brief time (couple of months) and have never been married, and the thought of giving up my personal space, even for some one I love, is frightening to me at a deep level. I'm almost certain I would over-react to a lot of things as a way of trying to establish the control I would feel I'm losing. This would be my suspicision based on knowing myself.

Perhaps your man is in the same boat? Being a musician, traveling for periods of time, basically being his own person. Now, the idea of being responsible to another person might be hitting him. I'm not saying he isn't committed to you or that he doesn't love you, but this can be a big step for some one who has never been in this type of situation before. Controlling sex might just be his way of attempting to control a situation he feels he is losing control over.

I, too, would wait for the dust to settle, allow yourself to get to a place that is calm and peaceful, and then sit down and talk. You know your needs, and what he has proposed is not in sync with your needs. Try to find out where his mind is really at and get to the root of the dilemma.

Hopefully, this will just be a small speed bump in your life together and you two will be able to work it out beautifully.

Good luck, Sheath!

You do have my sympthey. This is way up on the scale, right nect to being dumped, which just below divorce.

Forgive me gor starting with the old joke...

A showed up at their wedding reception all aglow, with the obvious "just fucked" look on their faces. The best man kidded the groom about not being able to wait and was informed that on the ride from the church that he had received the best blowjob ever in his life.

The bridesmaids also teased the bride about why she glowed so much. She replied that she'd just give the last blowjob of her life!

I don't think this is the case for you two.


I had something like that happen one, though not in the extreme you're experiencing. I was dating a girl 40 miles up the coast, staying overnight on weekends and going back to my job M-F. It was wonderful.

She had her life organized and was full of things she wanted to do outside the bedroom. I was pleased to be doing new things with her, as well as introducing her to a few things I liked to do. She was proud of her job as a financial analyst, and looking to settle into a LTR.

Then out of the blue, she lost her job, and had to move. We did the obvious thing -- she came to live with me and after a good month, found a job as a tech writer.

When she moved in, thing subtlety changed. It wasn't a direct effect of the stress of new living arrangements or being out of work, or having to change cities. We were in love, and communicating, and trying our best.

But the fighting started. She lived with me for a good year, and then found an apartment of her own and we stayed friends and lovers for another two years.

After a lot of examination, the root of the change was that she was no longer in control. Before she moved in, she provided her own security. After she moved in, she felt dependant on me, even though she got her income back and I never knowlingly restricted her in any way.

It wasn't obvious in our relationship before she moved, but she was the dominant person, making sure most every decision went her way. Just the idea of living in my apartment was a constant low level irritant. She should have gotten her own as soon as she could, and I then move in with her.

We ended up in a small power struggle, which I didn't realize at the time, since we were trying to love each other. And we never had problems with sex, though I know she had some lovers besides me from time to time.

I met her several years after out final break-up and we talked out a lot of this. I still miss her, though I've been married twice since we were together.


GIve him space, and try to get him to search with you for what he thinks he needs. That will be the presenting symptom, and you can go deeper from there. Again, come from the direction of giving to him and forgiving him.

SexyChele said:

An important piece of the puzzle might be: has he ever lived with a S/O or been married before? I've only lived with one b/f for a very brief time (couple of months) and have never been married, and the thought of giving up my personal space, even for some one I love, is frightening to me at a deep level. I'm almost certain I would over-react to a lot of things as a way of trying to establish the control I would feel I'm losing. This would be my suspicision based on knowing myself.

Perhaps your man is in the same boat? Being a musician, traveling for periods of time, basically being his own person. Now, the idea of being responsible to another person might be hitting him. I'm not saying he isn't committed to you or that he doesn't love you, but this can be a big step for some one who has never been in this type of situation before. Controlling sex might just be his way of attempting to control a situation he feels he is losing control over.

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Good points, Chele. Thanks for responding to my thread.

He has been in long-term relationships before, but they all turned out very, very badly. To say that he's had a rough road when it comes to women is an understatement.

I have wondered if part of that loss of freedom has something to do with it. The musician kind of thing. I guess it's hard to go from being so carefree...where all you have to do is show up somewhere at a certain time and everything else take care of itself...to having more responsibilities. Now that I think of it, until very recently, he hasn't had any responsibility at all, except his work. It is a huge change.

But it is a change he continuously assured me he was ready for. I gave him every option to wait...to not move in yet...to wait until we were married...but he was determined to be with me. And that's great, I love that.

It seems maybe he didn't really know what he was getting into?

S.

ReadyOne said:

After a lot of examination, the root of the change was that she was no longer in control. Before she moved in, she provided her own security. After she moved in, she felt dependant on me, even though she got her income back and I never knowlingly restricted her in any way.

It wasn't obvious in our relationship before she moved, but she was the dominant person, making sure most every decision went her way. Just the idea of living in my apartment was a constant low level irritant. She should have gotten her own as soon as she could, and I then move in with her.

<SNIP>

GIve him space, and try to get him to search with you for what he thinks he needs. That will be the presenting symptom, and you can go deeper from there. Again, come from the direction of giving to him and forgiving him.

Click to expand...

Thank you for that story, ReadyOne. The more advice that comes through, the more I realize it really isn't about sex, at all. It's about control, or loss of it, and him focusing on the one thing that maybe he feels he CAN control.

This is really helping me. Thanks, all of you.

S.

there's been lots of good insight and advice offered here and so I won't go over what's already been said so eloquently by others.

I feel for ya, sister.

But it is a change he continuously assured me he was ready for. I gave him every option to wait...to not move in yet...to wait until we were married...but he was determined to be with me. And that's great, I love that.

It seems maybe he didn't really know what he was getting into?

Click to expand...

sometimes guy's just say things to get it over with...He may have moved in with you because you would talk about it a lot? Or really, really thought it was a good idea.

I would think this would have to do with guilt and second thoughts. If he is seeing almost everynight then the sex just pounds that more into his brain. Him limiting the sex to once a week i think is him saying he needs space. Is he going to fuck you 10 times a day? I doubt it for right now, and it could all change.. Honestly if this was his first thing he did when you moved in together then i might want to rethink this. There is always a reason why a guy will do something

I am often left wondering about the men, and women, that seem unable for one reason or another to commit. Even to the extent of hurting the person they care about the most in the world.

A musician's life is not really much different than someone in the military or merchant marine, they both experience long absences from home. Heck, its a lot safer than the other two occupations, but I digress.

Is there a tangible need for "private, personal space"? People are social animals. We're designed and meant to interact with others of our kind. To say we must have privacy or personal space to the extent of foregoing having a meaningful relationship suggests a fundamental problem.

From a man's perspective, a lot of things change when you suddenly start living with another person. Mind you, this isn't a case of a roomate that you merely share a rent with. This is a person that you MUST talk with, interact with at an extremely intimate level. And like it or not, some of your previous behavior must change. Sure its not fair to expect someone to alter all of their behaviors, but its also not fair to expect one person to be unwilling to change anything either.

From a guys perspective women can be scary, all of a sudden things that mean nothing to him suddenly have this obscure value to this other person. The guy doesn't care if he's got a yellow fitted sheet and is using a brown top sheet with orange pillow cases. It doesn't bother him that he's got one torn curtain and another thats been replaced by a hefty bag. Or that he doesn't own a complete set of flatware capable of serving five. He likes that photo of miss july sitting on the harley that he's taped up near his dryer.

Guys view living with a woman as an all out assault on thier way of life. A lot of things they were comfortable with are turned upside down and inside out.

I'm sure women can say the same thing about guys. But the simple fact is, moving in with someone is a LIFE ALTERING experience. And that scares some people.

The problem I suspect is that he's moved in, but doesn't consider it home. Its a place to lay his head, its a place probably filled with all the woman stuff Sheath's filled it with. I'm not knocking Sheath, but from the post it sounds like he's moved into her place. There isn't much there right now that also makes it HIS place as well. And that is a process he needs to undergo as well. He needs to make it his place as well as make the mental transition from "her place/my place" to "our place".

What Musicman needs to understand is that he can be entering the best of both worlds if he wants it. His life as a musician will put him on the road enough to satisfy his need to personal time and space, and he'll have a hot woman that loves him waiting back at "his place". Now he just needs to realize that fact.

Sheath, I am sorry you are going through this. I was going to post my take on the situation, but Bobmi357 said it perfectly just above me. I really can't add much else.

We care for you and will support you in anyway we can, so if you need something, ask.


Brian

(sorry, double post)

Sheath, you absolutely have my sympathy. This situation must be excruciatingly frustrating. Obviously you have received some great ideas from folks here already, and I agree with most of it. This situation is unlikely to be be truly about sex. The loss of control and freedom, particularly given his previous lifestyle, is a much more likely culprit.

One thing that hasn't been highlighted is that HE moved in with YOU. (As opposed to you moving in with him, or the two of you moving into a new place together.) I recently moved in with my gf, after several months of LDR, and we were both very concerned about this issue. Suddenly he is living in your space, your turf, your territory. (Guys are often more territorial than woman, which can be a complication.) It's entirely possible that he's reacting to no longer having his own territory, space to call his own, a place to which he can retreat.

If your house/apartment is large enough, I would recommend that you try to carve out a room to be "his." 2BR apts can accomodate this plan usually. One BR is the actual bedroom, and in this case it would be "your" space since you are already well-established in it. The second BR becomes "his" space, even though you will both use it. Perhaps it's being used as an office, a studio, a guest room, or even just a storage room. Clear out your decorative stuff; give the room to him. Let him arrange it and decorate (or not) however he wants. Giving him a room (with a door, which is important) into which he can theoretically retreat and be alone may sufficiently provide for that sense of territory and control he is suddenly lacking. If he enjoys cooking a lot, you might be able to pull off giving him the kitchen. Let him reorganize and redecorate for his convenience, and then let him be in charge of cooking most of the time. (Poor, poor you if he wants to do so! )

However, if there isn't space in your home to provide him a niche, than you may want to consider living apart until you two can move into a new place together. In that case, you will be on equal footing, having equal control, for all decisions. You can also look for a place that allows for him to have a den, office, studio, workroom or whatever. I've noticed that most couples' houses have one room (perhaps the garage) where the man can do whatever he wants. It can be messy. It can have garish furniture. He can hang his swimsuit posters and sports memorabilia. She cannot veto anything in that space. The rest of the house, however, is open for negotiation. Either can veto stuff, and usually the woman is the one to ensure tastefulness.

I hope that you're able to find some usefulness in this post, despite it's epic length. Please feel free to PM me if you'd like to discuss this issue further. Good luck!

Re: Re: Somebody please explain what the HELL is up with my man???

Emerald_eyed said:

From what I remember, you have had sexual issues before, right? You were not always in tune..... Now could this be about his jealousy again from imagining you with other men? Same idea? or no?

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Good question!

I considered this, too. For those of you who don't know what Emerald is talking about: early on in our relationship, my man had a problem with my previous lovers. He was quite jealous, even concerning those men who weren't in my life any longer. He had problems with sex from time to time, when he would wonder if I had done 'this' or 'that' with someone else...sometimes to the point of envisioning it in his head, thus killing whatever sexual encounter we were in the midst of.

We came out on the other side of it, I think. His mention of previous lovers is now rare at best, and we have had no problem in that area since.

What my counselor said, and what I said, and what he eventually agreed was this: He just had to grow up about some things. And he has.

So, in answer...I don't think this has anything to do with what we dealt with back then. I could be wrong...but it's a completely different feeling. There's no jealousy coming from him that I can feel or sense. Just animosity on some levels, demands and a determination that things will be a certain way. Which, now that everyone has given such wonderful advice, makes me think that it has everything to do with the control issues.

S.

Re: Re: Somebody please explain what the HELL is up with my man???

*sigh*

Double Post.

Lit is really on a tear today.

S.

My other thought is one to which you just referred-- perhaps seeking counseling. It's entirely possible that just one or two sessions could be enough, particularly if the real issues are similar to the ones folks here have mentioned. Also, since the two of you have gone through some counseling before, and found it to be successful, I expect that he'll be a bit more open to it again.

When/if you bring up the issue, I would again recommend utilizing the power of juxtaposition. Point out that a month ago you were having sex twice a day and now it's once a week. You could also approach it as "We just moved in together and invariably we'll have some issues adjusting. Perhaps a couple sessions with Dr. (whoever) could help us identify potential problems and how to address them."

You and Music Man just took a big, slippery step in your relationship. Please let us know how it turns out. (Especially when you're back to twice a day sex!! Details woman! Details!)

DuckLover said:

One thing that hasn't been highlighted is that HE moved in with YOU. (As opposed to you moving in with him, or the two of you moving into a new place together.) I recently moved in with my gf, after several months of LDR, and we were both very concerned about this issue. Suddenly he is living in your space, your turf, your territory. (Guys are often more territorial than woman, which can be a complication.) It's entirely possible that he's reacting to no longer having his own territory, space to call his own, a place to which he can retreat.

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Thanks for that insight, DuckLover. And congrats on moving in with the girlfriend!

Him moving in with me is probably very much an issue. This place has really been 'mine' in every sense of the word for a long time. It's not feminine by any means, but it's certainly not masculine, either. If I were the one moving in with him, I would probably feel really out of place.

You mentioned something about swimsuit posters and such...the grungy garage of marital lore. He's a former fratboy, one of those 'men will be men' kind of guys...and his place reflected that. Complete with the footlocker full of playboy magazines and the swimsuit models on every wall. I got myself quite the rounder, to say the least.

Most of that is packed away now. I do draw the line at skimpy models on my walls, lol. But you do have a point about the private space, and him needing something that is HIS. That is something I can begin to remedy this very afternoon, by quietly moving some of my things out of certain places. It wouldn't hurt me at all, and would give him more freedom with those areas, so it seems like a good idea all around.

Thanks again.

S.

Hmmm, Bobmi and I apparently posted about the same time and said about the same thing! I guess great minds think alike!

I have a feeling he is purposely trying to sabotage the relationship because of commitment issues. But he doesn't want to be the one to break it off, so he's trying to get you to break it off. Just the feel I get after reading your post.