Group "activities" vs monogamy

Ok, how do I explain this without writing a novel...?

Let's see. Last weekend I attended a nude party with some friends. They're separate from my main group of friends, but I know them fairly well and like them. The party was not meant to be an orgy or anything, but no one was adverse to things being less than innocent. Which they turned out to be, later. Some things happened, no sex, but some touching and all that good stuff. And... it was AMAZING. The most exciting thing I have ever done. I still go hot and cold all over thinking about it.

The problem: I have a boyfriend. I didn't go too far (no one went TOO far, and I think this was because of me and my insistance that I couldn't) but, still I went farther than my boyfriend would have liked. I don't want to lose him. This was amazing, but I'm not going to throw away my whole future for it.

But... I would like it if my boyfriend allowed me to do some experimenting. No sex, not even kissing. Just some of that nice, naked cuddling. I hinted at this, and he made it clear that he wouldn't like it, he'd be jealous. Well of course I have to respect his feelings. Of course. But is this desire going to eat away at me until I go nuts? Is this the same as the desire to cheat with just one person (which I have never had). If I want to stay with him, I'll need to respect his feelings, so how do I put aside how much I want this? How do married couples deal with having a crush? Is it very wrong to push just a little bit for him to let me do this? I believe sex is special; I don't want to give myself to anyone but him. But I want other things. I don't want to be selfish. I've tried putting myself in his shoes and I'm not sure how jealous I would be. Part of me is kind of excited to think of him touching another woman... as long as he LOVES me and wants only me to share his life with.

One of my friends says he is polyamorous. How do I know if I'm polyamorous too, or just slutty?

I'm not even sure what my question is. Is it wrong to try to convince my boyfriend to let me do this? Am I just being selfish? If I need to give up on the idea, how do I do it?

Be nice, please. I already feel bad about what I have done and don't plan on doing it again without permission.

Don't push

If you push, he may eventually agree, without really wanting to. If that happens, he'll end up resenting it, and you, and your relationship will be on the decline.

Life is about choices and their consequences. You'll have to decide what's most important to you.

"Just some of that nice, naked cuddling"

Yeah... just some nice naked cuddling..... and then what? If I was your boyfriend, I would assume that things would certainly go beyond naked cuddling.. ( as if naked cuddling would be acceptable anyway). If I allowed my girlfriend to cuddle naked with another man, would I not expect that the next time or the time after she would be doing something besides cuddling?

Anyone out there let their wife screw around? by Adeon
https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144354&highlight=divorce

Does your wife or GF have bi-desires? by aramis3
https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=189618&highlight=strip+tease


is a little reading from the past.

I do so understand where you are coming from. We had a little fun this weekend, but he knows my views on monogomy... I'm one of those polyamorists in heart and mind, I just happen to have a boyfriend most of the time. (yeah, I'm also bisexual, but never really had a chance to date women... i know... i know... i'm not even going to start to get into THAT one)

For me, for many... it just isn't socially acceptable to friends or family, so you either do what you want and keep it secret or you'll wrip the hearts out of those closest to you...
or you "come out" instead of living a lie.

If he is the one for you, maybe if you both talk about it enough he can let you go for a little while and he the same so there won't be any affairs in your marriage later on?
Maybe you can convince him to bring in a third person every now and then to spice things up.
Maybe it is because you spent so much time with him, that your mind is starting to wonder where all your time went.

Think things through, deeply... lay all your cards out on the table, weigh everything heavily.

The hardest things we'll ever do in our lives is strive to be happy- and hope we don't step or hurt anyone on our way there.

This may seem harsh, but you have cheated on your boyfriend. Now you have to decide what you are going to do - tell him and hope he accepts, keep it a secret and hope he never finds out, or end the relationship and find a boyfriend who has similar desires as yours. Group activities can be a lot of fun, but only when taken part in by both parties with the complete consent of the other. You need to at least discuss with each other your interests, desires, and expectations. Then decide if you can reach an agreement you each can live with. If you try to talk him into joining he may decide to give in, but it is probably going to be the last thing he will do with you. Many couples engage in group activities and find it to be well worth while. However, the only way it works out for them is when they both freely agree as to what they are going to do and not going to do. They also have to communicate about what is going on.

Mysty61 said:

This may seem harsh, but you have cheated on your boyfriend. Now you have to decide what you are going to do - tell him and hope he accepts, keep it a secret and hope he never finds out, or end the relationship and find a boyfriend who has similar desires as yours. Group activities can be a lot of fun, but only when taken part in by both parties with the complete consent of the other. You need to at least discuss with each other your interests, desires, and expectations. Then decide if you can reach an agreement you each can live with. If you try to talk him into joining he may decide to give in, but it is probably going to be the last thing he will do with you. Many couples engage in group activities and find it to be well worth while. However, the only way it works out for them is when they both freely agree as to what they are going to do and not going to do. They also have to communicate about what is going on.

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word.

tisluvbull said:

word.

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Double word... and fucking A right.

Here's an answer from a guy with years of living. I started out very sheltered, naïve, and I grew through experience to what I hope is enough sophistication to know what a lot of life's options hold.

You're young, and now is the time to go everywhere you think you want to go. The pressures of time make us try to lock things in -- marriage being a big expectation -- and once they are set, they can be very expensive to break. The emotional toil and impact on others can get really big once you've been in a situation for a long time.

So if you feel a need to explore, as do most young and many old, then do your exploring while you don't have to pay a really big price for any mistakes. And explore safely, please.

Poly is a concept that is rarely found in practice. It's the idea that you can care for more that one person at a time, which sounds very logical and turns out to be very difficult. In order for it to work, you have to understand that love is often putting the welfare of another before yours. Selfishness is when you can love another but choose not to.

Everyone starts out as the center of their own world (think of a baby). In doing so, we hold ourselves as special. The problem comes when we think we are more special than someone else, which seems to be the majority of the time. I think the truly wise and happy people learn that in loving others they have to give up self-centeredness and in doing so, receive more love than they thought possible.

It's a question of motive. Giving to others can be a way for a person to build himself or herself up. It may look like love, but eventually they demand, "Look at me and how great I am because of what I've given up". This doesn't work. It just brings the center of the universe back to them, and they find they are alone -- they won't yield to anyone, and no one will yield to them, so all stay separated.

Underneath separation is unhappiness. We can often cover it up, keep busy, stay actualized for a while, but it will come forward. We may deny it by thinking we are so special we can stand alone. And that's were we end up -- alone. Misery eventually overcomes us when we are alone.

Two people often link up so that they will have someone to make them feel special. If you make each other special then you can start transferring the center of the universe from yourself to the other. In doing so, you become more selfless and loving.

But the natural tendency is just use the other person to make you feel special. You becoming co-users. Finally the relationship breaks down when one person will not longer make the other special. They look at what they are getting from the other as their due, and look at the relationship as for primarily for their benefit. The mutual specialness polarizes the relationship until it breaks down.

True love is inclusive, not exclusive. First, lovers grow together so that the center of each of their universes moves toward the center of the other's universe. Eventually they identify as merged personalities and that union is what each makes special. Second, they decide to give up some of their need to be special in favor of the other person and then in favor of the union. Two strong egos give up some of the need to be special and the growing mutuality gains.

Jealousy is when you're afraid that someone who is making you feel special will stop. It's frequently expressed as anger.

Jealousy is an attack at another who isn't making you feel special. If your partner starts seeing someone else and all you see is their making someone else feel special instead of making you feel special, then the green monster starts its rampage. So as kind of a mutual self-defense pact, we all (implicitly) agree that two people in a relationship should be exclusive with each other so the problem doesn't arise. Same for not going after someone in a relationship. Poach not and be not poached upon.

The poly people say they have diminished or eliminated jealousy but deciding they can love more than one. This means several things: First, they truly love others because they have given up a need for specialness in order to make others feel special. Second, so have the others they love. Third, they can support more than one mutuality, making each be special. Fourth, more than two people can be part of a mutuality.

All this is hard to do. Two people have lots of trouble getting it right, and more than two adds exponentially to the problems and increases the odds that someone in the mutuality won't join or remain part of it. May poly relationships fall apart when it becomes clear that someone won't give up being special in favor of the mutuality. In other words, someone gets jealous.

Being loved by a group is a two edge sword. It can feel good and make you feel really special, and that can actually take you apart from the group when you find others in it are more interested in their specialness. You end up growing apart, feeling that others used you, and broken hearted that they really didn't love you.

Or you find a group that really cares for each other, even when they're not together touching. You get sick, they bring you soup. You get scared and they pull you back instead of pushing you into what you fear. You aunt dies and they sit up all night with you when you get the news. In short, you build a quality relationship with them.

Such a group can be poly, and that can be very good. But most of the time, it really isn't because some won't give up being the center of their universe.

Which brings us to the difference between having sex and making love. You can do both at the same time, or just one at a time.

We've often been conditioned that sex must go with love. Here's another secret: It doesn't. Sex can be nothing more than adult play. Needless to say, guys seem better at this than girls.
Some individuals must always make love. The emotional connect has to be there, deeply there, or they can't get any satisfaction. Even if they are going for the greatest orgasm in the world, concentrating only on themselves, temporarily using their partner, after they finish coming they have to embrace and cuddle and emotionally connect back to their partner.

I doubt you're like that, or you would be so put off from group activities that you wouldn't have stayed there after they started touching in earnest. So, this means that you can have sex, as well as make love.

Now you want to go exploring to learn about your sexuality and the business of having sex. I commend you and encourage you. This will reward you for the rest of your life (if you don't pick up AIDS) and you will remember the lost opportunity for the rest of your life and probably eventually seek it out. Many people do during their mid-life crisis. Never give up a chance to make memories.

Now, to the boyfriend.

First, accept that your boy friend can leave you, no matter what you do. Second, there are many more boy friends available who are better matched to you. Third, they can be found if you watch what you're doing.

I know this sounds like I'm telling you to up and leave him. I'm not. But you have an issue with him, and it needs to be addressed. The outcomes are 1) you don't address it, you stay together, and the quality of your relationship is not what it could be. 2) You do address it, you don't get it worked out, you stay together in a poorer relationship, or you leave and find a better one down the road. 2) You do address it, you do get it worked out, and your relationship is a better one. So think about the quality of the relationship you want to have going when you start to lock things down in your life.

Start by spelling out the agreement you have with your boyfriend. Write down all the implicit things you've always assumed you and he would do, like not flirt, or not have sex before marriage, what ever. Think about other questions that can arise from two people together. Are you always expected to agree with his choice of movie? Is he obligated to like attending your family gatherings? Set down what your expectations are, and then consider how reasonable each is, knowing what you know about each other.

I suspect that your reasonable expectation is to be able to socialize with other people, male and female, and to be trusted to stay within the limits you agree to. I suspect that you won't consider reasonable his idea of those limits are, and may not even find it reasonable for you to have a social life of your own.

On top of this, you need to apply your moral code. It can and will change, but you have to decide what you believe is right, and then stay with it until you see a higher truth.

Now you get to talk about it, clear the air, decide what is reasonable and expected. Don't give in here for any reason. This is not an exercise in compromise. You are level setting for the rest of your relationship. If you aren't going to insist on a good deal, then you must suffer. Like you are now, trying to resolve how you and your boy friend feel about your potential activities.

Another hard lesson to learn. If something doesn't meet your goals, move on now, not later. Don't hang on to what you have so that you won't be without anything. Let go so you can get something better.

Trying not to be defensive and just listen... but I am a good person... I am. I feel so twisted up inside. I thought I was all through with curiosity. Everthing was perfect until last weekend. It is not worth it to me, what happened, if I lose this man over it. I'm not stupid, I know the right thing to do would have been to either not attend, or to leave when things got "friendly." Obviously. But I resisted a lot, I really did, considering what I was feeling. What a lousy comment in the ears of someone who believes in monagamy, I know. But there was a line, at least. I thought I was too old for this. What is it, psychologically, that made me veer off the road like this? I already know it was wrong--not in itself, but in the situation I'm in, and the agreement I have with my boyfriend. I know my choices of action, but how do I choose my feelings? Fuck.

ReadyOne: I hadn't read your post before I posted my last one. Will need to read it again (and possibly again) to get everything out of it, but thanks for taking so much time.

One thing though: we are not that young... much closer to 30 than 20. Or I wouldn't be so freaked out. Although I guess I would, because everything came with so much drama when I was 20. But I thought I was past all that, with no doubts in my mind, or I wouldn't have committted the way I have.

It's one thing to be wrong about others, it's very uncomfortable to be wrong about one's self.

Oh, also - I asked for and he gave permission for me to go to the nude party and to play spin the bottle and truth or dare. If that changes anything.

While I wrote some words of wisdom, I'm not sure those words apply as much as I thought. Take what I say with a grain of salt.

Salt... why? which things don't apply?

I agree with Cutie_Mouse...

If you do something that you know your partner would not agree with, something you are not comfortable with telling them about...then you have cheated. If your partner would be hurt by it and would not share the same view, then you have cheated.

Cheating equates to a lack of respect.

You need to ask yourself why that happened...why the lack of respect for the bonds of the partnership? What has happened there? The bottom line: You had a chance to stop. Numerous chances to stop. You did not stop. Period.

So don't bother at this point with asking yourself why you engaged in something he wouldn't like. Instead, ask yourself why you felt the NEED to do it without his knowledge. THAT is the core of the problem.

If you write it off to just your libido, wanting to experiment, uncertain about the relationship...then it's time to get out. At least temporarily, until you get things straight in your head. And get into counseling...both of you, separate and together.

If those things are not the answer, then you have an even more serious problem deep within the relationship that needs serious help...and fast.

S.

Say anything else you want--like I said, I am trying to be open to these comments. But I respect him and no one can say that I don't. Myself, maybe not. But him, yes.

Fluttering_Pink said:

Say anything else you want--like I said, I am trying to be open to these comments. But I respect him and no one can say that I don't. Myself, maybe not. But him, yes.

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Please understand...first...that I am not flaming you here. I've been in the same kind of situation you find yourself in now. And no, it's not easy. But you have to face some things about your relationship. That said:

In the spirit of openness, let me ask some questions. Please answer them individually and honestly.

Did you know, as you decided to continue with the actions at the party, that he would not approve? Yes or no...

If the answer is yes, then why did you continue?

If the answer is no, why didn't you discuss it with him beforehand?

Why did you not tell him immediately afterward?

Why are you hesitant to tell him now?

If you know it is something you could lose him over, as you implied in the first post, then did you weigh the consequences before you chose to go the the party?

If the answer is yes, then why did you choose to go?

If the answer is no, then why didn't you weigh the possibilities?

That's just for starters...

Honey, I know it is going to be very hard not to get defensive. Anybody will admit this is a really tough crowd when it comes to being unfaithful to a partner, and you are going to see that as this thread continues on. Statements like "I respect him" in light of the things you have said in your postings already aren't going to stand up to scrutiny.

You need to seriously consider whether or not this man is really worth it to you, make up your mind, and stick to it. Do not straddle the fence here. It does a disservice to both of you.

S.

sheath said:

In the spirit of openness, let me ask some questions. Please answer them individually and honestly.

Okay.

Did you know, as you decided to continue with the actions at the party, that he would not approve? Yes or no...

yes.

If the answer is yes, then why did you continue?

No good answer. It was just happening. More than anything has ever happened to me before, if that makes any sense.

If the answer is no, why didn't you discuss it with him beforehand?

N/A

Why did you not tell him immediately afterward?

Because it would have hurt his feelings.

Why are you hesitant to tell him now?

Because I want us to be happy, and I know he won't be if he knows.

If you know it is something you could lose him over, as you implied in the first post, then did you weigh the consequences before you chose to go the the party?

If the answer is yes, then why did you choose to go?

I asked him if it would be okay if I went to the party and he said yes. I had no intention of anything happening.



...
You need to seriously consider whether or not this man is really worth it to you, make up your mind, and stick to it. Do not straddle the fence here. It does a disservice to both of you.

S.

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I already made up my mind that he is. I know I did a bad thing. I'm just trying to figure it all out. If I didn't respect him, I wouldn't feel bad right now, or confused. I don't plan to do this again without his permission. Now that I know I can't be trusted in certain situations--which I didn't know before--I won't get into those situations. But I'm trying to figure out what I want right now. Him, most of all. But this other thing a little bit. How does that work? Do people just live with temptation and resist it, or does the fact that temptation exists mean something is wrong? I never had a committment like this before. In the past I would have just said 'oh, well' and gone with the flow. This is different. I don't know what to do because it's different and I'm different.

Ok, I'm going to sleep.

Fluttering_Pink said:

But I'm trying to figure out what I want right now. Him, most of all. But this other thing a little bit. How does that work? Do people just live with temptation and resist it, or does the fact that temptation exists mean something is wrong? I never had a committment like this before. In the past I would have just said 'oh, well' and gone with the flow. This is different. I don't know what to do because it's different and I'm different.

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First...thank you for being so calm and open-minded. That speaks volumes about you.

Let me address this question before I go to bed myself...

I don't think being tempted is unnatural...I think if you get to a point where you ACT on that temptation, then you have crossed a line, especially in a monogamous relationship. But to not be tempted would mean you were not human. Like the old saying goes, "Married doesn't mean dead"...well, monogamous doesn't mean immune. Do not berate yourself for being tempted. When you give in to it, well, that's a whole other ballgame.

So, please...don't attack yourself for being tempted. I think everyone is at some point.

And I'll probably be back to this thread tomorrow. lol

S.

Ok, I've been holding my tongue for long enough. I speak as someone whose been cheated on, of course.

What you did, if he wasn't aware of it and didn't know about the truth, and you've been conciously lying to cover it up...

Well, you don't respect him. Sorry, I don't buy it. Yeah, I've heard the 'I respect you too much to keep it from you' before. It's a crap excuse.

If you respected him, you would've let him know the details before you went and did it. You would've given him the choice as to what he wants to do.

I think you're instead feeling guilty. Which is fine. But don't make the mistake of confusing it with virtuosity.

Now, you have some choices. You gonna do it again or not? You gonna tell him or not?

I suggest that if you decide not to tell him, you take it to your grave. Live with it on your consience. To tell him further down the line just tells him that his entire life between then and now have been a lie - and all your actions will be in question.

If you're gonna do it again... tell him all of the details, and let him decide what he wants to do.

But respect? No. Sorry.

I note from your age that you are at what many consider to be your sexual peek, for what it's worth. Horror-moans, you know.

The thing about temptation, or falling of the straight and narrow, is that 99% of those who do put themselves in a position, consciously or unconsciously, where they almost have to (eventually) fall.

Looking for motivations can be interesting.

Personally, I married with the understanding that there is a geometry problem between SO and I (she's 6 inches taller), and that she is very snug in her very vanilla comfort zone. Giving up so many things I've done in the past, and not being able to literally sweep her off her feet or spoon her inside really bugs me. She's forbidden me to play, and it's most difficult to get her to try anything "wild" or "kinky". My one success over 4 odd years has been anal.

I knew what I was getting into, and decided to give up the wild sex because everything else was so damn good. Still, I frequently have longings to find a petite woman who has a wide appetite and go wild doing all things I can't do with SO.

Now I come across women who might fit, and I flirt, and they flirt back, and every so often I take it to another level, knowing that there is an attraction between us. Then I realize I'm taking my life in my hands, chicken out, and get out of the flirting situation.

Now why do I go there (start looking at women as sexual partners) in the first place?

Will there be a time when I don't catch myself going down the slippery slope before I'm over the edge?

It's an approach-approach conflict, the hardest kind to resolve. I love SO. I want badly to have sex with someone not her. And to add insult to injury, I've done that in previous relationships (with blessings, except for one time). So I know I can make it work.

The attraction between the two alternatives can feel like it's tearing me apart. My only way out is to just decide that I'm not going to be in a position of temptation. Sometimes I can even stay that way for a couple of months. But there isn't anything I can see that will ever remove the approach-approach conflict from my life.

Hope you don't get stuck there. But understand what you may be risking even if you decide to stay home from now on!

Rereading the last post made me sound like I need a 12 step program. Once an addict, always a potential recidivist.

What a terrible burden!

Im green compared to the rest of the pros here and Ill be honest...the thought of sex with more than one person does not do it for me. But ill give my cent or two

If you want him so badly...and he is against it...You dont do it. Bottom line. If he is worth it then you forgo your fantasy and keep your man. Your asking a lot of him...I dont think many people can deal with the idea of their other half being with someone else...even if it is passionate naked cuddling (i dont see how that ISNT like sex...but alrighty then) IM sure there are guys out there that would embrace this sort of life style. It is not for everyone. Your cheating on him if he doesnt know the whole truth of what your doing. Your not being very good to him.

I understand if you dont want to hear this, but it is what it is. Just dont take this guy along for the ride of his life...he deserves respect.

.