Upon Reflection (A serious thread. No, Really)

We have had several threads about general depression, however, I think that what I suffer from is slightly different: letting go of the past. I'm devoting this particular thread to those who may be able to relate, in hopes that they feel comfortable enough to share in their experiance. Sometimes just venting helps.

It's not that anything overly traumatic ever took place in my childhood, but in a way that frusterates me more because I can't make people understand why my thoughts prevent me from moving forward.

Some days, I will wake up and just not be able to focus on anything or anyone simply because I'm worried about a particular instance that occured when I was 12, or maybe a situation that took place with an ex. Some of the time, I don't even know for sure that anything bad actually happened, but my mind will suddenly trigger the idea that, hey, maybe this person thought or said such and such about me.

Through the years, I have been on a number of medications and offered several labels to help Docs reason why my brain works this way. I'm otherwise a very happy and well adjusted person, but when I get into one of my slumps I crash hard. Somewhere within the course of minutes, hours, or even weeks, when I'm finally confident I have asessed the situation from every possible angle, I am then free to proceed with life as normal again.

I understand it's very common to reflect on the past, but I have been told the degree to which I do this is far from the norm. I have lost several jobs over it, and at its worst not been able to answer the phone or leave the house. There are even times where I will have forgotten if I ever finished rationalizing a particular occurance, and then the thought process starts all over again. I can go for days without eating, I'm so distracted.

This started happening when I hit my early teens, and has progressively gotten worse. Now I'm sometimes up to 2 or 3 thoughts hitting me all at once. Anyone else experiance something similar? If so, how do you deal with it?

I warned you this was a serious thread.

Attack of the memories?

Is it a constant review of past mistakes or unfortunate incidents that you constantly wonder whether there could have been something you could have done differently to stop it from happening?

If so, you suffer from guilt and introspection. It's not a mental disease, it's basically your soul and your memories. It can be harsh and get you down to a pretty grim edge. Usually what I do for the memories is go on long walks, play some clearing-head music, and be generally honest with myself and let it happen. It can be tough, but it's also kind of important to do. Without acknowledging fuckups, we can't improve ourselves.

If it gets to tough, turn to a head-clearer. Video games, shows, movies, music. Something distracting that's not drugs. You'll still get attacks, it's a process of being alive. Just embrace what you can withstand and then head-clear till it gets better.

Getting angry can also help in moderation but don't use this except in dire circumstances as its very caustic and harmful in its own right.

Hope this helps.

Lucifer_Carroll said:

Attack of the memories?

Is it a constant review of past mistakes or unfortunate incidents that you constantly wonder whether there could have been something you could have done differently to stop it from happening?

If so, you suffer from guilt and introspection. It's not a mental disease, it's basically your soul and your memories. It can be harsh and get you down to a pretty grim edge. Usually what I do for the memories is go on long walks, play some clearing-head music, and be generally honest with myself and let it happen. It can be tough, but it's also kind of important to do. Without acknowledging fuckups, we can't improve ourselves.

If it gets to tough, turn to a head-clearer. Video games, shows, movies, music. Something distracting that's not drugs. You'll still get attacks, it's a process of being alive. Just embrace what you can withstand and then head-clear till it gets better.

Getting angry can also help in moderation but don't use this except in dire circumstances as its very caustic and harmful in its own right.

Hope this helps.

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Thanks, Lucifer. I agree with you about walks, and I find a good work out at the gym helps immensely. I still focus in on the circumstance, but am able to resolve it much quicker.

With regards to video games and other distractors, they don't work for me because my mind NEEDS to finish that thought. I NEED to climb inside the head of the person or people involved. If I put it off to the side, then I spend the duration of what I am trying to do to get my mind off of it worrying about delaying the process. I'd rather just get it over with as quickly as possible before another thought invades.

To further clarify (or confuse,) a vast majority of what I am dwelling on is really nothing I had any control over at the time, so it's not so much a matter of wishing I hadn't said or done something, more a matter of regretting that I had been in a certain place at a certain time to avoid the incedent.

I have to make myself feel better by taking the circumstance to the most outrageous degree in order to confirm to myself that it really doesn't matter. I can't accept this without the full assesment.

It's as though I have 100 different channels in my brain trying to tune in all at once.

sincerely_helene said:

To further clarify (or confuse,) a vast majority of what I am dwelling on is really nothing I had any control over at the time, so it's not so much a matter of wishing I hadn't said or done something, more a matter of regretting that I had been in a certain place at a certain time to avoid the incedent.

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No, I know that one big time. The biggest of my memory predators is one of those. The twisted wondering and desires to make a deal with God that not being in a certain spot or keeping another from that spot can be are all difficult and most parisitic.

You seem to have the right attitude for it though. Willingness to look at it and let it finish. The distractants I usually use as a recovery program after the thought has completed and left its ill feelings or rage at the Universe or saddness. A distractant there can be helpful. I personally use music a lot for this purpose.

Keep on the long walks as well. They are usually the universal best for those kind of things if you can take it because it leaves you alone with your thoughts until you can work it out of your system with possibly an epiphany or something of merit as a bonus. Plus, it's great for fleshing out the plots of stories. Night is a great time to do it as there are even fewer distractations while you are in the in-depth introspection mode.

Anyway, good luck. I won't tell you to expect them to go away, because they won't but you might be able to accept them and gain something from them instead of them always being deep regrets and depressions.

If all else fails, break down and cry. It actually works on the worst attacks of memory.

seriously. i try never to be serious if i can help it but here goes.

guilt... not my friend, though to varying degrees it is responsible for getting me off my ass. but the kind im talking about will haunt me for the rest of my life. it doesnt rule me and i think im over the worst of it... that sudden realization that i could have stopped an atrocity from occuring.
my daughter was abused. wont go into details. i never even knew... i never knew. people try to tell me that there would have been no way to know...but i wear the guilt from this like a hairsuit. they dont know the heavy mantle of shame that slides over me for not knowing because in retrospect...there were signs.
the only thing i can say is that when i did know i took steps to rectify.
no, i really do know about guilt. self inflicted or other wise, we're on a first name basis.
it doesnt disable me but there are times where it does overwhelm...no walk in the park will take it away... only time.
i kinda get it helene...

sincerely_helene said:

With regards to video games and other distractors, they don't work for me because my mind NEEDS to finish that thought. I NEED to climb inside the head of the person or people involved. If I put it off to the side, then I spend the duration of what I am trying to do to get my mind off of it worrying about delaying the process. I'd rather just get it over with as quickly as possible before another thought invades.

To further clarify (or confuse,) a vast majority of what I am dwelling on is really nothing I had any control over at the time, so it's not so much a matter of wishing I hadn't said or done something, more a matter of regretting that I had been in a certain place at a certain time to avoid the incedent.

I have to make myself feel better by taking the circumstance to the most outrageous degree in order to confirm to myself that it really doesn't matter. I can't accept this without the full assesment.

It's as though I have 100 different channels in my brain trying to tune in all at once.

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Hi,

I haven't spoken to you before, but I've read your posts, and have had a good feeling for your person, therefore I take this as you say, that it's serious.

I take it you've been to a doctor, and have had chemical imbalances, etc., taken away as possible causes of what troubles you. That said, if true, then Luc had the start of a good possible aid:

-----------------------------
"and be generally honest with myself and let it happen. It can be tough, but it's also kind of important to do. Without acknowledging fuckups, we can't improve ourselves."
-----------------------------

To go a bit further, have you tried yoga meditation?

If you have, or haven't, and would try it, then Luc's words can be expanded on to include a rule to adopt in your seeking:

There is no right, there is no wrong, there is no blame, there is no shame.

More than just acknowledging things, delving into them is generally good if they truly are a disturbance to your well-being. If you combine the meditation with the above rule, you may be able to help yourself. Of course, what you get out of something like this is generally equal to, or exceeds what you put into the effort. It is not easy, and I sympathize/empathize with you, and hope you get past this in good order.

I have adopted, also, the statement in my sig line, and have come to understand that what we learn is cumulative in unusual ways, and can have very efficacious effects that we don't readily see, or realize. IOW, knowledge is wonderful, but hard to find for some needs.

I wish you the best of luck. Certainly, your road is not an easy one, nor will it be resolved too easily, barring medical reasons for it.

mismused

I don't know a lot about mental health disorders, but what you described sounds almost like obsessive-compulsive disorder. But instead of your cleansing ritual being physical (such as repeated handwashing or flipping light switches), it is mental. The minute scutiny of every possible circumstance leading to or from a certain memory or event.

I can't offer any suggestions or advice, but I do hope things work out okay for you.

Helene,

I dont know if what happens to me is the same but, I get these moments that can last for hours or days, where I slip back to when I was between the ages of 5-11. I end up getting so mad at the person that molested me that I want to tell everyone what happend. Hubby can tell when this is bothering me, I get such a hate on for this person, I dont even want to see them let alone talk to him.

It affects me when I have to leave my kids alone at home together, my son being older than my daughter scares me to death. I have recently told my daughter what happend so she would understand certain situations where she wasnt allowed to stay over or be at my brothers house without me or my husband being there. I cant believe how much she understood, mostly the over whelming need to protect her. I felt I had to tell her to protect her when I do have to leave them alone together, not that my son has shown any of the behaviour my brother did. My husband always assures me that just because my brother did this , it doesnt mean it will happen between my kids. It still scares me to death that she would have to live with this pain her whole life as I did.

It even bothers me while I sleep, I will purposely wake myself out of a dream, when I start to dream this reaccuring dream about my kids. Like Vella said, it is with you all the time.

Try answering your daughter when she quietly asks you, "So because your brother molested you, that means you werent a virgin?"
I knew way too much at too young of an age to have the normal relationships others do. He took alot from me the moment he started molesting me that I will never ever get over it, and will never tell my parents of it.

I know this didnt help you with the 'cure' but at least you will know you arent alone out there.
C

I know it's fashionable to subscribe to the "mental disease of the month" kind of thing, but I have to agree with Elizabeth. We're all haunted by things we've done or didn't do in our life, but for most of us these are rather big, life-changing events. If you keep on returning to minor events or occurences, I'd think you might have a touch of obsessive-compulsive disorder.

The image of the OCD sufferer who can't stop washing their hands or has to count everything they do is kind of extreme. I think the psychiatric diagnosis concentrates on "fixed patterns of ideation": ideas or images we can't leave alone but keep on poking and prodding and turning over in our minds, looking at from every angle.

As I say, it's common and even normal for us to do this with life-changing events - a break-up, a disaster, a loss - but usually we eventually come to terms with these events and put them away. I don;t know if there's anything they can do in terms of medicine for this, but maybe you should bring it up with someone.

---dr.M.

Helene, I have problems with my past as well. I don't obsess over it, but the behaviour patterns that I developed as a defense mechanism still give me problems.

I'm not knowledgeable enough about psychology to say for sure what the problem is, but it strikes me that it's another manifestation of a major problem with humans, to whit, the desire to control things.

It's an especially bad problem for we North Americans as our power, wealth, and mind set teach us that everything should, can and must be controlled. With the subtext that if things get out of control, it's a weakness on your part.

That is unutterable horseshit.

Very little is actually under our control. If things happen in a manner we don't want and didn't expect, we're going to have to accept that. Sometimes we can 'fix' our 'mistake'. Sometimes, if we've caused harm, we can apologise. Sometimes there's nothing we can do and we have to accept that.

But obsessing over the past won't change anything. We can only learn from the past.

I hope this doesn't sound harsh. It is not meant as a judgment, but as an observation. Quite possibly an incorrect one. But I want to help however little I can, and I hope this does.

Cealy, my heart goes out to you. I wasn't betrayed so severely by some one I trusted. But I was betrayed many times. So I believe I have some small inkling of your struggle. I admire the strength and courage it took you to get as far as you have.

This might be an idiotic suggestion, but did you ever try writing out these obsessions as stories?

Writing is nice because not only do we get to play God and have things come out as we want, but we get to examine and find meaning in the things that happen to us. The kind of obessing you talk about seems like it would be a great tool for a writer to have.

--Zoot

What you're experiencing sounds a bit like obsessive/compulsive disorder, related to depression and sometimes treated with the same medications. I don't know whether OCD can be expressed as repetitive thoughts or worries, or if it's limited to ritualistic actions. Just wondered if it's something your doctor might have considered.

Fyi, depression, alcoholism and obsessive/compulsive disorder are linked in various ways - not necessarily in individuals but in families (depression and alcoholism) and in the way they respond to SSRIs (depression and OCD).

I can hardly wait till somebody cracks the code, and an all-purpose brain-normalizing pill is released. (When we need to write or have sex, we'll skip a dose.)



Edited to add: I read through the thread and see that Zoot has already mentioned OCD. It might be worth asking a doctor about, since your obsessions don't seem related to unresolved issues or traumatic memories, but are more of a ritual of having to think through the thing that occurs to you before you can set it aside.

Um...I know we're all disease trigger happy here, but I still maintain that it's not OCD. It sounds like genuine honest introspection with an attack of the memories base. Its not threatening or socially hindering if you're honest with it and grab a distractant when its too much.

See, everyone's coping strategy of "getting over it" always seems to me to be an advanced form of copping out distraction style. If you don't review your life, your choices, acknowledge mistakes, recognize situations you had no control over, let a little emotion in, and try and gain something from all that even if its just a compass for how you've lived your life, then you've wasted those moments and risk making the same mistakes.

I think its healthy to try and work through the attacks when they arrive to work through introspection on a regular basis. No more than you can take of course, since I don't want to advocate driving someone to suicide.

Maybe its just me, but it seems stupid to call this act OCD as if ignoring the choices one made or didn't make or reviewing what could or couldn't have been done in certain moments was somehow enlightened. As if "getting over it" and making the same mistake was healthy.

I don't know you and I make no pretense that this is gonna help you but you might want to try out NLP (neuro-linguistic programming) in case you haven't.

It's very good for therapy and achieves results much more faster than regular psy.
It is not concerned with what caused your problem, it just works on the breaking the links that caused it.

Try looking into that, the techniques will definitely help you in other aspects of your life too.

I hope that helps.
Best of luck.

DrF
-who's not really a doc but you all knew that

To Vella, Rgrahm and Sensual Cealy: Thank you for contributing your experiances, my heart goes out to the lot of you.

Dr M, Shereads, Elizabeth, Misused, and Dr. Freud: You are all correct. OCD is one of my diagnoses, and I even used to do it to the extreme of the light switch scenario. I also have so many other diagnoses, that I have to store them in a little binder in order to remember the names of them. I call it my "file." :wink:

I was reluctant to bring it up in the first post, because my history has brought me to the realization that the different medications offered effect me in ways which far outweigh the positive. For this reason, I try to steer away from going too much into detail of the official labels, and just deal with my obsticles in other ways.

Lucifer listed one great example with the exercise suggestion. Whatever that chemical is that is released (I think it is Endorphins, but correct me if I'm wrong,) it seems to almost balance out the thinking pattern and I'm able to come to a quicker resolution.

Would love to hear other suggestions (natural preferred,) if anyone can offer any. I also loved the yoga idea, though have honestly never tried it. I get the feeling my brain wouldn't be able to settle down long enough to meditate.

dr_mabeuse said:

This might be an idiotic suggestion, but did you ever try writing out these obsessions as stories?

Writing is nice because not only do we get to play God and have things come out as we want, but we get to examine and find meaning in the things that happen to us. The kind of obessing you talk about seems like it would be a great tool for a writer to have.

--Zoot

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I do that constantly, Doc. I've yet to decide if it helps or if it just keeps me obsessing on a given situation for even longer than I would have if I'd just tried to let it go. I do know that I just end up writing about the same old scenes in life over and over again, kinda like someone who watches old home movies until the tape warps.

minsue said:

I do that constantly, Doc. I've yet to decide if it helps or if it just keeps me obsessing on a given situation for even longer than I would have if I'd just tried to let it go. I do know that I just end up writing about the same old scenes in life over and over again, kinda like someone who watches old home movies until the tape warps.

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Oh! I missed that second post, thank you minsue.

Zoot: I do enjoy writing of obsessions, but it's normally obsessions of another nature. Like Minsue said, it would cause me to focus on the scenario even more than I already do, and I prefer to resolve that issue and get out of that frame of mind ASAP. Normally, too, I have too many thoughts bombarding me at once to place into coherant sentences.

sincerely_helene said:

To Vella and Sensual Cealy: Thank you for contributing your experiances, my heart goes out to the both of you.

Dr M, Shereads, Elizabeth, Misused, and Dr. Freud: You are all correct. OCD is one of my diagnoses, and I even used to do it to the extreme of the light switch scenario. I also have so many other diagnoses, that I have to store them in a little binder in order to remember the names of them. I call it my "file." :wink:

I was reluctant to bring it up in the first post, because my history has brought me to the realization that the different medications offered effect me in ways which far outweigh the positive. For this reason, I try to steer away from going too much into detail of the official labels, and just deal with my obsticles in other ways.

Lucifer listed one great example with the exercise suggestion. Whatever that chemical is that is released (I think it is Endorphins, but correct me if I'm wrong,) it seems to almost balance out the thinking pattern and I'm able to come to a quicker resolution.

Would love to hear other suggestions (natural preferred,) if anyone can offer any. I also loved the yoga idea, though have honestly never tried it. I get the feeling my brain wouldn't be able to settle down long enough to meditate.

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Yoga has a way of clearing your mind and focusing your thoughts on the way your body moves. As you stretch and practice each position, you're very focused on maintaining deep, even breathing. You're also conscious of how each muscle moves, how your body feels. Even if your mind wanders, it comes back to your breathing and you sort of let go of everything else. Afterwards, you do feel the endorphins. The more you do it, the more you get out of it.

I would absolutely recommend looking into classes. The teacher really matters - you may want to try a few until you find one that teaches in a way you find comfortable. And environment is very important. You'll have a good experience if you find a quieter studio with a smaller class size and a space large enough that you're not right on top of each other. (Save that for later ) Avoid a big noisy gym where you can hear the Disco Step Class in the next room. A studio that gets a lot of natural light when you're taking your class is simply the best.

I wish you peace, sweets.

sincerely_helene said:

Normally, too, I have too many thoughts bombarding me at once to place into coherant sentences.

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Too true. Coherant sentences are rarely involved when I write like that.

LadyJeanne said:

I would absolutely recommend looking into classes. The teacher really matters - you may want to try a few until you find one that teaches in a way you find comfortable. And environment is very important. You'll have a good experience if you find a quieter studio with a smaller class size and a space large enough that you're not right on top of each other. (Save that for later ) Avoid a big noisy gym where you can hear the Disco Step Class in the next room. A studio that gets a lot of natural light when you're taking your class is simply the best.

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I would require a serious lotto winning to make that a reality.

sincerely_helene said:

I also loved the yoga idea, though have honestly never tried it. I get the feeling my brain wouldn't be able to settle down long enough to meditate.

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Helene,

Consider this please: If possible, as soon as you wake up, do your morning washup, then find a quiet place to sit, back straight, feet flat on floor, hands in lap, or on chair arm, whatever is comfortable, and close your eyes.

Let your mind's eye go to your breathing. Breath inward through your nose very deeply, and "watch" it go in. Hold for a couple of seconds, then expel as quietly as you can, but fully through the mouth. Do this a few times.

Next, concentrate on breathing inward slowly, and as quietly and gently as possible to a fairly deep breath, then expel slowly and quietly through the lips.

Yes, you're working towards a slow, quiet breathing rhythm.

Don't worry about your ability to keep this up. A little each day has cumulative effects; e.g., it begins to habituate after a while just like anything else in your existence.

The benefit? The mind is a very rare creature, so much so that we have no idea what it is, or where, if anywhere, it is. One thing that we do know is that the way we breathe has an effect on how the mind works on us, or on us as we normally sense we use it. Breathe slow, the reverie slows. Keep on breathing slowly as I suggest, and in time the mind seems to come to a halt, and, if it doesn't frighten you at first, you get a great sense of peace, of comfortable detachment.

No lottery needed, just a quiet, comfortable place to sit, and begin training the mind to do as you need, or perhpas, letting your mind know what it is you need for it to do for you. Doesn't work right away? No problem, quit, and do again the next day. All you're doing is making a habit, something that will come "naturally" to you as time goes by. You have nothing at all to lose save a bit of time very early on. Don't let your existing habits "bully" you out of "wasting" this very short bit of time. Existing habits tend to do things like that.

In the morning is suggested by me because your mind is not fully "active" yet. Your thoughts sort of begin to reprogram you to the day coming, rebooting you, if you will, like turning on your computer does.

I hope this helps. Believe me, it really can work, all other "bodily" things being equal. If PMing me will help you, please feel very free to do so.

mismused

sincerely_helene said:

I would require a serious lotto winning to make that a reality.

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Hmm. Ok, we can't count on the lottery. It might not be as expensive as you think; a lot of places offer deals based on the number of classes you take, so it can work out to less than $10 per class. But if that's too much, you don't need to take a class to practice yoga. As mismused described, it's easy to do at home; that's where I do most of my yoga.

The only reason I recommend classes is to learn to do the poses correctly. But I started yoga as a kid when I found the really, really calm yoga lady with the soothing voice on PBS one day. Pick up a tape, or go to one class a week for a little while until you've picked up the basics and then do your own practicing at home.

I had OCD as a kid. I had no idea what it was or that it was even an actual condition. All I knew was that I felt compelled to do everything equal times with each hand. If my left arm itched, I would scratch it with my right hand. Then two more times because it had to be in threes. Followed by three scratches to the right arm in the same spot, even though it didn't itch.

When I was about six years old I decided that doing that was really dumb and that I was going to do it anymore. LOL. And I haven't. And I haven't. And I haven't.

<Goddammit!>

i didn't read through this whole thread, so don't know if this has been suggested, but when i start obsessing over anything (and there are LOTS of things to obsess over) i write a letter longhand to whoever/whatever it is that's bothering me. Then i burn it and bury the ashes in the flowerbed.

It doesn't matter how long or how short the letter is. One was quite literally an opening, three words, and a signature. Another - one to my dad - filled a 75 page notebook and then some. That one took some time to finish. He had done quite a few things throughout my childhood that just wouldn't go away. Once the letter was written and burned, it was as if the whole idea that he would do some of these things or do some things that were completely unfair (because of my older sister's experiences) simply didn't matter anymore.

The trick to this is to be entirely honest. Put down whatever it is that bothers you about the situation, why, what you would have liked to happen... anything that comes to mind. Then let it go.

Just a little something that works for me.

Thanks for all the follow-up suggestions.

Mismused and Lady Jeanne: Though I have never tried yoga, I have attempted the relaxation excersises described and even undergone hypnosis and self hypnosis. I was also very young, though, so it might be worth giving it another go. Thanks!

Boota: My magic number was 2 at first... then I tried to force myself into an odd number to break away from the habbit, which cause me to become obssessed with 3 and 5. It took even longer to shut off the lights and flush the toilet! I can't still can't believe my parents never even noticed. They must have just thought we were having electricity and plumbing problems all those years.

Entitled: I would have a great deal of difficulty recording my thoughts while in that state of mind, but I can see how it might work for others seeking resolution. Great idea, and thanks!