Husband Went Too Far

ANDY: did you ever arm wrestle?

TONYA: sure

ANDY: with who?

TONYA: when i was a kid - with other kids

TONYA: and once with the coward

TONYA: he only did it once, and wouldn't do it again

TONYA: i embarrassed him

ANDY: you gave it all you had?

TONYA: sure did

TONYA: and i beat him

ANDY: did he say - wait - I did not get a chance - lets rematch?

TONYA: no - what he said was that he wasn't really trying

TONYA: and in the beginning, i don't think he really was

TONYA: he had no confidence in my strength

TONYA: and when he realized that i had strength

TONYA: it was too late to over come it

ANDY: did you come on really strong in the first seconds, get his arm almost down, he suddenly stopped you, and the last few inches was more of a power play?

TONYA: that's exactly what happened

ANDY: cool

ANDY: the guy would definitely say he was not trying

ANDY: but he would ALWAYS have a rematch

ANDY: so am I misjudging male ego?

TONYA: i don't know about all male ego, but the coward sure had huge one

ANDY: the only reason why he would not immediately ask for a rematch is because he knew you were married to him and he could have one another time

ANDY: i cannot imagine a guy living this down when he thought he did not give it a fair try on his part

ANDY: you see my logic?

TONYA: i think he was afraid that if we had a rematch, i might actually win

TONYA: so long as he convinced himself that he didn't really try

TONYA: his ego was still ok

ANDY: i was thinking

ANDY: how long did it take you to win?

TONYA: it wasn't easy - it took several minutes - and we were both sweating

ANDY: did he manage to get your arm back up to the straight up position?

TONYA: almost, but not quite

ANDY: do you think, that even though men generally have more muscle strength, that women have better endurance

ANDY: noticed that the men

ANDY: would just give out

TONYA: oh absolutely, women have more endurance with men

TONYA: than men - especially sexually

ANDY: so what happened was that after struggling with coward for a few minutes, his arm sort of quivered and he lost all his strength all at once and you slammed him to the table?

TONYA: that's right

ANDY: and that was the ego thing that sort of freaked him out

TONYA: yes

ANDY: and after that, if he had asked you for a rematch his arm was wasted so he would have not won

ANDY: it takes time for one to get back that from muscle fatigue

TONYA: i don't know - he never asked for a rematch

TONYA: but it must have turned him on

ANDY: how so?

TONYA: we had some really intense sex afterward

ANDY: did he use that arm during sex or the other one?

TONYA: he used both arms, but never one more than the other

ANDY: how did your arm feel after that arm wrestling?

TONYA: a little tender, but not so bad

TONYA: it was tender for about a week, though

ANDY: did you feel that if there was another man there equal in strength to coward, that you could have taken him on and won then?

TONYA: no. as i said, i really think that i won because he under estimated my physical strength, and i caught him off guard

TONYA: he worked out every day

TONYA: and lifted hand weights

TONYA: so i don't believe that i could have actually beat him

TONYA: with all things being equal

ANDY: do you think that you are as strong in the arms now as you were then?

TONYA: probably about the same

TONYA: well, actually, right now, perhaps not as strong

TONYA: i haven't been working out much since my surgery

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TONYA: that's what i mean - the exertion of energy is the turn on - i want to sweat for it

ANDY: let me ask you - when you were arm wrestling coward - and won - was it a HUGE turn on for you? and were you disappointed that you did not have a chance to do this more often?

TONYA: in thinking back, i must have been turned on by it - i know that he was, because we had incredible sex afterwords, but i didn't really put that much thought into after that...

TONYA: i am now remembering that he was always physically challenging me that way - just wrestling around the house - like trying to pin me down on the bed, or me pinning him

TONYA: it just never occurred to me at the time that it was such a turn on for him

ANDY: that is interesting - since i was going to ask you who came up with the idea to arm wrestle

ANDY: did he come in one day and say 'lets arm wrestle?'

TONYA: no. i recall that we were both sitting at the table one afternoon - he was reading the paper or something and i threw something at the paper to get his attention

TONYA: he told me to stop, but i could tell that he was playful, so i continued to do it

TONYA: and somehow that turned into him shoving me, playfully and i shoved him back - and he asked me just how strong i was

TONYA: i said i was strong enough to kick his butt (playfully) and we arm wrestled

ANDY: for me the HUGE turn on is that you are competitive and wanted to beat him arm wrestling - you did not think - oh I cannot beat him - or you did not think - if I beat him it will hurt his ego - you were just thinking I am Tonya and I am giving it all I got

TONYA: that's pretty much what i was thinking

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ANDY: let me ask you something

ANDY: did coward ever cross the line with you - physically?

TONYA: he tried only once. but i had already had self-defenses classes by that time, so he landed on his butt looking foolish. but he realized, in that moment, that i could have really hurt him - and that i was completely prepared to do so.

ANDY: what did he try on you?

ANDY: when in the marriage?

ANDY: and was anything said after you judo flip (was that it) him?

TONYA: we had been married maybe 6 months

TONYA: there were people over - mostly his friends

TONYA: and he was ordering me around all evening and it was pissing me off

TONYA: so i asked him very politely, away from everyone else to stop doing that

TONYA: and poo-poo'ed me as if i was just being silly

TONYA: but other people noticed, and folks began to leave shortly after that

TONYA: so when the last person had left, and i was cleaning up i told him again that i did not appreciate the way he was attempting to order me around

TONYA: he said that i was only trying to make it difficult for him because he was having a good time and i wanted help cleaning or some such bull - basically he wasn't listening

TONYA: and he picked up the remote in the living room and turned on the tv

TONYA: so i picked it up and turned it off - because now im really pissed

TONYA: he stands up and gets in my face, and tells me that i should never "disrespect him" in front of his friends

TONYA: the coward is 6'3, about 220 lbs, so he's sure that he's intimidating the hell out of me,

TONYA: and he takes my labored breathing as the beginning of a cry - which he has never seen me do

TONYA: when i get angry, my voice gets lower - almost to a whisper

TONYA: and i tell him, in this whisper, that he should not underestimate me - or think that i am here on this earth to serve him

TONYA: he pulled back and reached up to slap me

TONYA: and i caught his arm and twisted around his back

TONYA: and i had his arm in this really awkward position behind him - sort of like the police hold people when they're out of control

TONYA: except i am holding up higher because he's taller

TONYA: and of course he does all of this threatening that if i don't let his arm go, he's going to do whatever to me

TONYA: and i twist a little more

TONYA: and he's cursing and screaming and threatening

TONYA: and i kick the back of his leg, right above the knee (another pressure point), and he drops down to the floor

TONYA: that's how he ended up on his butt

ANDY: what happened next?

TONYA: this is somewhat surreal because it mirrors the scenario that you and i just had this morning

TONYA: while i am still holding his arm behind him in this very unnatural and painful position,

TONYA: i lean over and whisper in his ear that he's going to have to learn to respect me or he's going to have trouble in his thus far peaceful home

TONYA: and i let him go - by this time, he has tears streaming down his face from the pain

TONYA: he limped for a week

TONYA: and he favored that arm for at least 3

ANDY: question

ANDY: when he fell on his butt - did not that mean you let go of his arm - unless you fell down next to him

TONYA: no, i didn't let go - i held on. i just went down with him. if i hadn't, i could have broken his arm

ANDY: so you landed under him?

TONYA: no. when i got his leg to buckle, and he began to go down, i went down on one knee to counteract the height difference

TONYA: so i ended up behind him

TONYA: on one knee

TONYA: still holding his arm

ANDY: do you use two of your arms to hold one of his?

TONYA: absolutely

TONYA: initially when i reached up to block his arm from hitting me

TONYA: i grabbed his wrist and twisted. his body turned as i twisted and i had to hold on with both arms to counter his strength

ANDY: is it shaped like an L with his hand pointing to the back of his neck?

TONYA: right

TONYA: it hurts like hell - or so i have been told

TONYA: and to add even more pain, you bend the wrist back as well

ANDY: when he reached to slap you - was that the moment when you thought - NOW I NEED TO ACT - I do not want to be married to another Larry?

TONYA: that was it. and it was not like i thought about it. something inside just snapped and i thought, "this will NOT happen to me again and he needs to know that RIGHT now"

ANDY: that is precisely what I meant - in act ever since Larry you must have thought never again never again in your mind over and over

ANDY: right?

ANDY: so when this moment came

ANDY: it was like you had lived it in your mind already

ANDY: so you did not need to think

TONYA: that's right

ANDY: i know you so well!

ANDY: question

ANDY: when you were standing almost breathing at cowards back to hold his arm

ANDY: how did you kick his leg so hard - was it like you need to really pull back on your leg to swing it at his leg?

ANDY: i guess I am asking does one need balance and very strong legs to do this

ANDY: it is not like kicking someone from a distance

ANDY: where you can really put a lot of force into it

TONYA: you don't need a lot of force. you have the element of surprise and if you hit right above and behind the knee, you hit a pressure point that causes a good amount of pain

ANDY: i ask this because you said he was limping for a week

ANDY: i can understand his arm being very wounded

ANDY: so i was confused about his limp

TONYA: its the pressure points that cause the most pain

ANDY: what was that night like after you beat him up - did you sleep together? did you talk about it? or talk about anything?

TONYA: he had nothing to say to me pretty much for almost a week.

TONYA: he slept on the couch

TONYA: then he got horny

ANDY: was that his choice of sleeping?

TONYA: yes

TONYA: i never told him he had to sleep on the couch

ANDY: what do you mean he got horny - he told you or you saw an erection

TONYA: he came to bed on the 4th or 5th night about 1am and woke me up

ANDY: did you have sex?

TONYA: yes, we did

ANDY: when you had sex that time and he winced from his arm being sore - what was the mood?

TONYA: strangely, it was very passionate. he didn't use that arm very much

ANDY: when he was being disrespectful to you, it sounded like he was not even aware he was doing it, even though it made the guests leave. so, i am wondering if he really knew he was being disrespectful to you.

TONYA: that was why i forgave him - he wasn't aware of what he was doing. he was just being an ass

ANDY: i asked that

ANDY: because if he did not know what he did wrong - the lesson you gave him - may not have even worked

ANDY: so did you follow up the physical lesson

ANDY: with a verbal one

ANDY: and explain to him exactly HOW to behave?

TONYA: oh yes. we talked about it - at length. and it never happened again.

TONYA: now mind you, he could have easily beat me up in face to face combat

TONYA: but that's not his nature - to beat up on women

TONYA: (only take their money)

ANDY: once you had his arm behind his back there was not an option for him beating you up!

ANDY: right?

TONYA: not then, but i mean some other time - when he wanted to get revenge or something

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ANDY: but i was thinking you would comment on:Andy: and I am sure you did not feel so great at what you did

TONYA: on some level, i don't feel so great about it. but i have to honestly say that part of me wants to give the other part a high five.

ANDY: i am glad that half of you is happy - I think a lot of your self hate has to do with you not being happy with your past actions - and on this one i am 100% convinced that you did the right thing

TONYA: thank you. i appreciate that

ANDY: what happened first arm twisting coward or the fun arm wrestling incident?

TONYA: the arm wrestling came first -

TONYA: which is why i believe - and so did he, that i just caught him off guard

ANDY: the key to the incident which you just told me - is that he really did not know you that well - he did not know that you were angry - since you get angry so rarely

ANDY: so he underestimated you

ANDY: you even used those words

ANDY: and it did not sink in

TONYA: looks can be deceiving. i never underestimate anyone

ANDY: the point I am making is that he did not know what you are like when you are angry

ANDY: and you were already married 6 months

ANDY: that does not leave me with a good feeling

ANDY: because something as basic as how your wife is when she is angry

ANDY: should be obvious before marriage

ANDY: what do you think?

TONYA: he never saw me angry before that

TONYA: it takes quite a bit to get me angry enough to show it in that way

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TONYA: the interesting story: yes, that was the very first time i had ever seen the coward cry

TONYA: i did assume, when i let him go, that his energy was much to spent to do anything to me

TONYA: his verbal tone certainly went from antagonistic to nothing. he had no words. i also feel that part of this was his humiliation

TONYA: i do not know if i knew i had control of him at that point. but i knew that i had made the point i was trying to make and that he would consider it long and hard if he ever chose to physically fight with me

TONYA: i do believe that if he and i had arm wrestled regularly, that i could have won - at least some of the time. again, i have no desire to develop muscle, and that is what this activity would have done for me - in one arm. although the reality is that he never wanted to arm wrestle me again - probably for fear that i would win again

TONYA: our fantasy: when i caught his arm and pulled it behind him, yes i pressed it in against his back as far as it would go

TONYA: it would have worked much better if i had pressed him into a wall, but we were in the middle of the living room and i needed to think quickly. i have seen police officers use this same move and they had perpetrators up against walls

TONYA: when i got him down on the floor, it was a controlled move, but i had never done it before, so when i stepped back and kicked out, i did not anticipate that he would drop so quickly

TONYA: however, i had his arm pulled out at an angle, and i still had is wrist pulled up, so i still had control

TONYA: i had a major advantage when he went down on the floor, as i was now taller than he was and when i pressed his arm into his back again, i leaned my weight on it

TONYA: still reading remainder of fantasy

ANDY: there is something curious about your statements - you keep saying you do not want to develop muscle - and yet you have incredibly strong arms. Imagine what you would be like with muscles! And you are an ideal fighter since you were thinking quickly and calmly and not in a state of confusion. I am not sure if I am turned on more by your raw power or your confidence in your success. Did you also have him bent over with you leaning over him as he was on his butt? How long did this last? I mean the holding his arm while standing, and while on the ground?

TONYA: yes, i had him bent over while i was leaning on his back (which made it much easier to whisper in his ear)

TONYA: this lasted probably 5 minutes - seemed longer at the time, but i don't think so. it only took about that long to apply the right amount of pressure, and he stopped struggling

TONYA: the standing and holding his arm only lasted maybe 1 or 2 minutes, as i knew that if i didn't get him down on his butt,with me above him, i could not hold him for very long.

ANDY: so, you were on your knees leaning your weight into him for 5 whole minutes with your face right up along side his, and you were watching the tears rolling down his face all that time?

TONYA: the tears only came about the last couple of minutes. but my face was up against his. all i could hear was the both of us breathing heavily and him grunting until he finally gave up

ANDY: did he ever whimper or cry out

TONYA: not once

TONYA: just very deep grunts

ANDY: how did you know he gave up?

TONYA: he stopped struggling. i held on a bit longer after that and whispered in his ear. and that's when the tears began to fall

TONYA: struggling only increases the pain

ANDY: did you ever feel your own physical strength wavering?

TONYA: no. i had major adrenaline rush

ANDY: did you feel powerful during it?

TONYA: i did feel power. it was amazing - and frightening, because i never thought myself actually capable of such a thing, even though i replayed such instances over and over in my mind when i left Larry

ANDY: the feeling of power is said to be a high like an orgasm is a high. And yet your moralistic mind was still making you feel frightened at your own feelings. Is that correct?

TONYA: yes

ANDY: all of what I just wrote?

TONYA: it was an incredible feeling, but it didn't come close to orgasmic. and yes my mind was making feel frightened about it

ANDY: so, were you scared that you might cause a broken arm?

TONYA: i wasn't really thinking that way at the time, although the thought later crossed my mind. and i am very glad that i didn't apply more pressure

ANDY: you seem to be totally in control of yourself at that time - only using the minimum of force to convince him to give up. Is that correct?

TONYA: i don't know how in control i was. it was like my instincts and my fright took over. i felt that i was using a little more than a minimum amount of force, but i know that i could have applied more

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ANDY: if someone placed you in a situation where you had to fight, would you be prepared to kill if necessary?

TONYA: yes

ANDY: would be resolved to the fact that you may lose your life (meaning you will not panic)

TONYA: yes

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ANDY: what did you think of the #2 one. I contend that those were not tears of pain or humiliation. But tears from deep inside his soul as his lifelong feeling of invincibility was swept away leaving him bare.

TONYA: that's such a deep thought

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ANDY: what was later said about that incident?

TONYA: we never spoke of it again - not one word

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ANDY: what is on my mind - did his behavior and demeanor change from before and after you beat him up?

TONYA: he was not so cocky anymore - at least not around me

ANDY: was there a look you gave him - that would tame him around you?

TONYA: that wasn't necessary

TONYA: he had always been cocky, but never towards me until his friends were over that night