All Comments on 'Literotica: Feedback and Conduct'

This is the internet. You post something and you get what comes at you, good and bad. It's up to you to learn to accept that reality.

For example, many people read Loving Wives stories because they're looking for some twist or new telling of the familiar cheating, revenge, slut stories. They have every right to say they don't like wimp husbands or that revenge can never be good. If you notice, people who start their stories by saying this is a wimp husband story don't get flamed as much as those who invite readers in and then hit them with the guy suddenly loving his slut.

I recently commented on a story in NonConsent/Reluctance that began as a seduction and then turned into a violent rape. Many people objected to my comment - made by others as well - saying that the category is all about rape. It isn't. (But I only care because some moron wrote me a note saying I was an idiot for holding my opinion. Only a moron criticizes someone for having an opinion, which is different from criticizing the opinion itself.) My comments were directed at the content of the story, but it doesn't matter because the story is posted in a public setting and people can have a dialogue about the story, their feelings about the subject matter or whatever as long as it stays within the guidelines for appropriate conduct.

It's fine to ask for constructive criticism but to expect it is silly. The longest debate over one of my stories went on for 5 pages with many comments saying that revenge was never right and the character could never be improved by it. Fine. That happened to be that story and that character and his beliefs, not mine. To be true to that character, I wrote what he did and thought. Almost none of these comments were constructive in the sense you appear to mean but it doesn't matter.

I submitted my first story recently to this site(or anywhere else for that matter) and received many helpful reviews. I also received a butt load of feedback like "you lost me at the word bisexual... This is trash... Etc..." I also got a few that pointed out problems with the story that I have fixed. I liked this article and as I said "I couldn't agree more!"

I posted 'A Loving Wife Dies'

i was toasted. i did not expect it and read a lot of comments before i saw that the stroy (rated a poor one) had touched people in a big way. i was cursed and abused. and i knew that the stroy was a success. it was not the best i had written but it struck nerves and got a scream from the masses. it wasa GREAT.

i have not got that since. i will try for it again.

i will always leave the public and private lines open.

H20wader

I completely agree with your assessment on feedback. I am an artist as well as a student. This reminds me of a similar debate that we had in one of my classes. What is good art and who decides what good art is? Art is anything that is created by anyone whether it is a painting, a sculpture, a drawing, or the written word. There is no such thing as “good” or “bad” art. There is only your taste and your opinion.

Personal attacks are both unneeded and immature. If there is something wrong with my story, tell me. Give me reasons. Tell me how it could have been better. If you don’t like the premise of a story, don’t read it! You can stop at any point in time. I’m not standing beside you holding a gun to your head. You are reading it by choice!

So far I have been lucky I suppose. I have yet to actually receive any of this type of feedback yet upon my submissions. In fact, out of the four stories I have submitted, I have only received feedback once. I have run into this type of attitude though over my art, though. You have found your way to fight back and I commend you for it! Bravo!

I have been called everything from "stupid" to "racist" (the last is really funny, since I'm a member of a very small ethnic group). It's always from someone who doesn't have the courage to leave their username, and usually a good many of the words are misspelled/misused. My personal favorite is the reviewer who never gives a good review unless the female protag gets pregnant.

I couldn't agree with your essay more!

First, feed back on the article, (because it is not really a review). :-) The article was timely but your arguements wandered. For instance. You start out telling us you have been a writer for 10 years and have posted to LE for 2. (By the way, re-edit before you submit. The word is "salute" not "solute". People will take you more seriously if you don't shoot your self in the foot way.) What does that really have to do with anything? You file to show me really how it was germaine. Then you name drop. Whoever Celeste is machts nichts to me. Unless she's going to suck my dick or pay me hard cash for a story, I don't care who she is and the fact she read you is moot and doesn't impress the reader (me, in this case) one iota. since you brought it up, what did she have to say? Was it good, bad or indiffernent? If it was important enough to mention it was imporant enough to go all the way with. Now if Steinbeck had read you, THAT would impress me, especially since he is dead.

My next point is that I had to read the piece twice to see just what it was you were trying to say. And I still don't know precisely. I would have felt better if you had set out a good arguement and kept to it. Like:

All reviewers are assholes

Chagrined is a reviewer.

Therefore, Chagrined is an asshole. A valid argument...The premises are false, but what the hey!

But you didn't stick to that you wandered.

Your examples of a good review were right on the money though. But how many LE readers have that degree of class. Not many, I wager. :-) I wish, as do you, that more readers could give qualitative feedback. But to give good feedback you have to be aware of what makes good storytelling. Not that prevalent here.

You are 100% correct on the "Anonoymous" reviewers though. They are invariably cowards afraid of a)having their own work trashed in retaliation b)having themselves identitifed for the perverts, sickos, or moral degenerates they are or , much worse c) having to actually justify with logic their opinion which they usually can't do. Type A is the only ones I have any sympathy for although they don't yet realize that that only perprtuates the syndrome. "If you aren't part of the cure you are part of the problem or else just part of the landscape. More writers should show some balls (yep, you too ladies!) and post under your name. If you can't handle it, buy asbestoes thongs.

Two last items and I'll close. First, I disagree with you about the reader. The readers owe us nothing save basic repsect and civility due to any human being and not because we are writing. Other than common decency, they owe us nothing. No one takes a gun to my head to post stories here.

Next, if the commenting process is so messed up, just post without allowing comments. Simple. Several writers here do that. Velvetpie, KarenKay, and many others. Granted they may be some of the more "controversial" writers but hey if they got decent comments on the story, and not their person maybe they would allow public comments. Why would I want to see a posting which talks about how personally reprehensible I am? I love KarenKays work as a writer. I wouldn't want to be her husband (a sentiment I am sure she echoes! :-) ) but her wrtiting is great! I know because I absolutely HATE eveyone of her female cucholding charaters. And that is one of the emotions she strives for! Great writer! But I can't publically comment on it, dammit! And I suspect it was because some wags out thee commented on what a "nigger loving slut" she was! If I wanted to chastise her lifestyle I would do it via email not on the feedback board. Am I making sense here? LEAVE THE AUTHOR ALONE STICK TO THE WORK! BTW, I have noticed more and more writers not allowing pulic comments. Bravo to them!

Oh, and I agree withthe commens about writers who idenify their storyline up front. Helps us t sort out what and who we want to red.

Bottom Line, the feedback and comments shoud be bout the

A good effort. Oh and I like much of your fiction too! :-)

Regards,

Chagrined.

Well written in a very readable essay. I've left a lot of Public Comments over the years, and in general agree with you. The biggest problem is the reader who takes everything too seriously, and who really thinks the story was written with just him in mind. Therefore, if the characters do something he (she) doesn't approve of, or the story ends too abruptly, out comes the negative feedback. Of course, no writer can please everyone, but I never could understand the "it sucks" type of comment. You might have differentiated feedback for poems, as in a poem even one spelling error can really take away from the structure. Supposedly, Literotica checks for spelling anyway (in stories), so comments about spelling really shouldn't be necessary. Good luck with future stories!

when people don't say nothing more crap come run down the story line.if all cockold wrote good reviews,that all you would read.as a reader i let the writer no way i like cockold stories.so that my point of view.this isn't for you persay,but writers with their brain some place else besides their head get caught on the same oh same oh.if writers give new material they wouldn't get slam dump and feeling worst.if you write good stuff good reviews.

I am a fair to middling writer with some 40 odd years in. Even sold some stuff so it can't be too bad.

What amazes me is that even though I write as a male or female, (or something else as they arrive inside me) some readers thinks it's real. I doubt anyone would even believe my truth, I am all of my characters, at least at the time of the writing. Then sometimes I am just me, trapped in this chair for all time. I write under many names, I have to since I am all of them and none of them.

I have had emails offering me large sums for "service" when I wrote as a young prostitute, then men and women both irate to think I would leave my wife, emails calling me a fool/wimp because of a wife/another male scenario.

Yet if my character is a very strong virile male, I am hated by the men readers, if I offer a soft and sensitive male lead, I get abuse.

As a female author, I get email responses 50 to one over those I write as a man. Perhaps I could take it as a compliment to the believability, but the truth is it is the style and format of the site. I answer some, when I am the person they write to, otherwise, I don't.

All feedback is good, even the critics. The goal is for the work to be read, this lets me know it was. Even bad feedback is a delight.

No one owes the writer anything. We post the story, the readers posts their comments and it works great! Feedback is important to understand how the story is perceived and received. Do I care if an idiot calls me an asshole? It used to bother me, but I realize it is all part of the process. The reader gets to take a few shots, but please read the story! I ask no favors and accept all comments. That is the rush to posting a story. Take the heat or leave the kitchen. I thank the readers for their comments, all of them!

You're right. It would be nice to get meaningful and polite feedback, but unfortunately unless you're Steinbeck that always going to be the exception and never the rule. Think of writing a story for a free erotic as a beautiful clean sink in a public restroom. Some people will use it and some will not. Even those who do are probably trying to get rid of some shit of theirs and, even if that sink was a piece of art sculpted by a great artist, few people will admire it for its shape or thank the artist who made it.

Getting a lot of feedback doesn't ensure that any of it will be worthwhile. If a commenter likes the story they usually just say they loved it, that it rocked or recount some particularly enjoyable scene. If affirmation is the main thing you're looking for as a writer its relatively easy.

-- By the way, I'm not trying to be insulting because every writer, consciously or unconsciously, has written or slanted pieces to get a slap on the back. --

If you want a popular story that gets a lot of feedback, write pieces that have lots of sex, feature characters with gigantic endowments or herculean endurance, and has a happy ending. Write about hot topics in terms of themes and the Literotica category e.g. a horribly written incest story will get 10 times the hits as a non-erotic one. Stick to formulas because once you have developed a readership that likes that type of story they will keep coming back. Also it helps to write it short and call it chapter 1 because readers are much more likely to respond with high praise because you've teased them and/or they want to encourage you to write a second chapter. If you doubt this start reading through the top stories lists.

Sadly, even when the feedback is on point and meaningful, it can be hard to accept. Many times I've only appreciate a reader's points until way after the fact. Also I'm sure there was good criticism I've gotten that I never took to heart.

I guess it comes down to why a writer wants feedback.

If it's about getting encouragement for a basically thankless hobby then write with the guidelines I mentioned.

If it's about improving as a writer ... well, honestly in this situation it's usually a case of the rich get richer. Good writers tend to get lots of feedback and even high quality feedback. Average and poor writers get told there stories suck, the grammar was horrifying and that the plot and characters were unbelievable. If you want to improve your writing it's more about developing a working relationship with a small number of authors or insightful readers.

If you don't care about the feedback, but are just writing because you enjoy it but don't like people slamming you all the time ... then stop lying to yourself. If it was about that you wouldn't let people vote on the story or leave public comments.

What feedback you get in response to your writing has more to do with the reader than your work.Take a look at these public message boards. The ones with the most comments are about divisive subjects. Here most people are not writing about your story or how you wrote it or even what your plot was, they are writing about themselves and their reaction to the topic.

Just look at me, I'm not really writing this to help your writing or to comment on its worth. Your piece could be well written or poorly written, I'm writing because I feel like putting in my two cents.

Okay, done with the soapbox. Who wants to step up next?

Of late, I’ve had a go at some of the constant reviewers that as soon as you see their name you know the comment. I personally though will never switch off comments.

Like most writers, I would prefer constructive criticism and when it has been constructive, I’ve acted upon that advice. No doubt to read one of my early stories then a later one should prove my point.

Surprisingly I’ve only received one bad feedback which was anonymous and read “I think you are sick.”

There is a vast difference between comments and feedback which makes me wonder are the comments really for the author or to boost the commentators position in life or amongst their group of friends.

I make comments myself. The difference being, I normally send feedback as well. Always with an email address attached.

For those who believe it’s their divine right to say whatever they wish I would ask the question. Why then has the author the right to delete comments, and/or switch them off all together?

My Regards to the author

Really appreciate the write. You have explained the world as it is. It is unfortunate because a lot of us would appreciated constructive reviews but because of the personal attacks that we must endure it is not worth it. Thanks again for sharing.

Okay--now that thats off my chest--some straight lines just deserve a response. Great essay, thoughtful and insightful. I look at the stories and comments and then go back to my work and do a comparison. My friends tell me it is an excuse not to get something out there. That may be, but I have noticed that I have caught several major problems of consistancy and story flow that would have ruined the work for many readers.

An essay like this helps me steal myself against the abuse that is bound to come. I do not always handle criticism well, but I am getting better. I am part of a writing group that we do this on a face-to-face basis.

This is the first work of the authors that I have read. I will have to check out his other works. Thanks for writing this, enjoyed it alot. JimDinMN

what I expected on the article. And the article is right on the money. We can't expect anonymous to give feedback on something that doesn't clash with his personal views.

And personal views of the universe are what most anonymouses give us. I have done it myself both publicly and directly (and privately) to the writer but of course I always give my nom de plume at least. When I am giving a view point it is a plea to give us something in an area I think is poorly unrepresented, the strong, INTELLIGENT male responding to personal betrayal (most of my writing is in the Loving Wife category, and that is what I enjoy reading)

I have another complaint with Anonymous. Whether I receive good feedback or bad I like to say thanks for their sending it. What gets my blood boiling with frustration is not being able to establish a conversation with someone. There are reasons for my stories turning out as they do.

And even more frustrating are the writers sending me anonymous feedback who have one or more points I would like to explore with them. Not a screaming fit, but more fully look at their point of view and explain why I wrote the story as I did. If a reader is interested enough to send something to me, why not make it a two way street. I have many email friends that have met me in just this way.

The other thing about anonymous (no capitals) I think writers have to just accept. Some out there have "issues" and they meet them partly with mindless rants. I ignore them, but as mentioned above wish I could 'talk' with them.

Doug

Interesting and nicely written essay. There's just one thing.

"I only owe a debt to people who support me or help me grow as a writer." means you owe nothing other than a debt.

It appears that you intended, "I owe a debt only to people who..." Which is to say that you are in debt to nobody but supporters.

I had written this piece. It is bang on! Meaning it is exactly how I feel. I though it was well written and insightful. I'm sure, as the writer pointed out, that those who appreciate it, don't need it and those who need it won't appreciate it, nor likely even understand it.

On behalf of many, many writers I'm sure, thanks for saying exactly what many of us feel.

Peter_

I couldn't agree with you more. There are some times when feedback is mean and undeserved. However, there are also times when a little bit of harshness is justified but I would like to see those people put their names down.

A well written and thoughtful text. I'm reminded of the phrase that 'democracy is about people who dont know what they are talking about having a right to say it.' I imagine that sums up some of the comments we may recieve from time to time. Unless they are profanely rude or crude, I do leave them on the message boards. My stories, like those of others, will not be to everyones taste, and the anticipated excitement that rapidly becomes frustration will of course be displaced onto the writer. My particualr gripe is reserved for those of us who have written about unfaithful wives, lovers etc and in so doing seem to incur the moral wrath and damnation of a particular group, (or maybe individual), who chooses to hide behind the cloak of anonymity yet makes the most vitriolic attacks, usually against the writer, not the story. I remain fascinated by those who feel this strongly but feel compelled to read this section. Role over Dr Freud!

Let's see; overall you hit a lot of important issues regarding feedback. Nicely done.

I think it's important to realize that when it comes to erotica people do put their personal emotions and experiences into the story. It's not an excuse for tasteless feedback, but a well crafted story makes the reader forget that it's fiction, so it's understandable if the reader takes it a tad too seriously.

I think it's ridiculous when a reader is so particular that they get hung up on a single grammatical error. Multiple errors are distracting, but it's tough to be perfect when you're talking about this sort of literature.

Readers tend to forget this is a free site with amateur, volunteer authors. The anonymity of the internet allows people to say things they would never be willing to say to a person face to face.

I've been lucky, the vast majority of my feedback has been positive or constructive. I've gotten one where the reader obviously didn't "get it". It upset me for a few minutes, but I got over it.

Nice Article.

I enjoyed your Essay, I do not have many submissions, but I do read a lot here, and if the story does not turn me on, or worse it turns me off well then I simply pick another...

I hate when I read feedback, Anonymous or not, that attack a writer or a story based on proper real life actions instead of just enjoying the fantasy...

As far as grammar and spelling is concerned it has to be pretty bad for it to distract from my reading enjoyment. (I work in the public sector, I read a lot worse grammar and see a lot worse spelling in the chicken scratch my job requires me to read)

I think your essay was something that needed wrote unfortunately the people who should read it and take it to heart will most likely ignore it.

All this ranting about anonymous feedback, and I didn't see *one* posted name that I could look up in the phonebook. We're *all* anonymous!

This is a free site; I could register a new name for each message that I post. Would posting under another assumed name make my comment any more or any less valid?

Some people have very flawed logic, and it shows in their stories as well.

and can greatly appreciate the effort put forth. Although, literotica is open ot everyone so dealing with anonymous angry pricks is the staus quo. I also feel quite uplifted by constructive feedback, and frustrated at the neandertals who go into ignorant spates of anger anonymously. In my opinion - anyone who is so moved by what we write to leave hateful or angry feedback - should take the time to register then leave their feedback. Otherwise, they are just a cowardly chicken shit. For the people who choose to remain anonymous for their own reasons and leave feedback that is constructive, positive, reasonable and enlightening, I consider it like getting a letter from a secret admirer.

Seems to me that is basically your problem here.

Feedback to point out spelling and grammar errors? Really??

If you are half as serious about your writing as you say you are, how is it you do not use an editor?

The editor is there to remove those annoying typos, misused words, bad grammar and plot flaws. Take some pride in your work, don't rush to publish it half baked. Your reader should get a 'clean' story to start with.

ALSO, there are options on Lit to 'talk' with authors. There is a Feedback option where readers can send feedback(funny that? huh?), anonymously or identified, to authors through the Literotica email system - that is FEEDBACK.

Here, I am posting a "Public Comment" where the heading asks:

"Love it? Hate it? Have suggestions?

You can leave a public comment on this submission!"

This is NOT feedback as such, merely comments from readers.

The sort of feedback you crave is ideally sent to you via email, though a bit of editing would remove the need for most of the feedback you seem to want.

Harddaysnight hit the nail on the head with his comment down below somewhere. More power to him for his realistic point of view, as opposed to those of some of the other authors who have commented here.

If authors want genteel sycophantic comments, then the answer is to send the story only to their selected group of genteel sycophants, not to post it on Literotica.

Either that or stay in your little cocoon and turn off all comments, voting and feedback as others have chosen to do.

dear anonymous .. anonymous is when you don't leave a return adress for the author .. most don't want to be known to all the world ... and to be recognized by all people .. only to the ones involved .. if you leave a return adress (email) be it ever so anonymous .. you are not quite anonymous .. to the writer ..

I think this "story" is good - and tells you and all to leave an addy so that the writer can explore what it was you tried to say...

I don't agree with everything you say - I don't, for example, mind critics commenting on misspellings, infelicitous grammar or choice of the wrong homophone; even if expressed in a negative way these help us improve - but I do appreciate your major points. Why bother commenting if you have nothing constructive to say. In fact I have often wondered why people who write carping negative criticisms (and of course vote 0) bothered to finish a story that clearly gave them no pleasure at all.

However I don't mind anonymity per se. The short thank you note or brief line of praise, even if tempered with mild criticism, from 'anonymous' is fine with me. Yes it's pleasant to be able to respond, but not always necessary. But I wish that everyone who provides detailed criticism gave a reply address so that I could enter into some dialog, give an explanation and, perhaps, learn more.

A few other random thoughts:

Besides comments on the story line, construction, grammar, characterization, etc, I don't mind comments on the sexiness of the story. This is a site for erotic writing after all. We want our stories to be sexy. I also don't mind comments related to the believability of the story or characters. It's easy in writing about sex to invent super-people with sexual abilities and attitudes no-one has ever really experienced.

I wonder about the sanity of those who constantly confuse the writer with the characters in the story and who abuse the writer for the actions of a fictional character. I can only assume that these people accuse crime writers of being murderers and attack their works because they disagree with murder.

And I have to add my voice to the others who commented on the totally negative, pointless and misdirected criticism from what seems an organised group directed at what appears now to be every story in the Loving Wives category. I can only suppose that the members of this group have been so scarred by their own wives' adulteries that they feel that they must ensure that anything that reminds them of such experiences has to be attacked, abused and if possible expunged from the face of the earth. Surely taking the time to read and comment must open their wounds more than simply avoiding the genre that reopens these old wounds.

I agree with much of what you said, but I don't take the anons quite as seriously as you do I guess. They annoy me when they make comments that you would like to discuss with them and you can't. I get pissed when they are just plain ignorant and make personal insults. MY pet peeve is with those that don't even read the whole story, and you can tell because they make comments that make no sense. Those small-bussers should be strung up, but there's no way to get that much string.

Seriously (rim shot), I think it took guts to write this. More guts than I have because I'm not going to leave my name, but I do appreciate your effort. In the end, the people that do read it will be the courteous and civilized readers (which are the vast majority bless you all, and that does NOT mean that you can't be critical while being civil) and the ones that don't read it will be too busy making comments like... Your storey suked.

And Kanga, your editor should have told you to use some kind of punctuation inside the quotation marks of your dialogue in your lone unreadable offering.

Touche'! Sad that it needs to be said, but those anonymous posters that feel they can be outright rude to people makes me cringe inwardly when I see them - followed by a roll of the eyes and a muttered "what the heck rock did this yo-yo come out from under?" (well, you get the general idea at least). <wry laugh>

For some reason, anonymity seems to bring out the lesser in people, which I don't understand - if anything, it should make one more comfortable with posting what they really feel w/o judgement. You have no idea when I reply whether I am male or female, hetero, bi, or homosexual, young or old, of any particular race, religion, or what little personal demons haunt my 'perversion closet'. You have only the words in the reply to infer meaning.

For all of you anonymous repliers (yes, me included), if you wish to have a dialog with an author, by all means send them with an email address to reply to (those who are unfamiliar with hotmail, yahoo mail, or any of a number of other various free email services may be inclined to use those for anonymity). If you'd like to make a quick criticism or praise, then an anonymous post is the way to go - but try to exercise that mush between your ears in forming the response. If it was bad editing that you object to, let the author know tactfully. If the story just wasn't your cup of tea because of the subject matter, then don't comment/rate it - don't rip on the writer for putting together "another wimp husband (blah) (blah) (blah) (blah) (blah)" (or whatever) story. Conversely, if you loved it because it threw a real curve at you, or made you feel something strongly, let them know.

TwistedPlayr, thanks for taking the time to post this. Badly needed and seriously overdue. Cudos.

What else is there to say, I get more ignorant feedback than most. Kick ass and take names brother.

Author you basically - simplistically write about sensitivities - yours and ours. Most authors basically write to to display and/or improve thier talents and receive accolades - appreciation for thier time and efforts - the currency to provoke more. Some only to vent their perversion, or pain and misery.

Some random thoughts for brevity sake:

When someone says your baby is ugly you should be angry at the why not the messenger regardless of anon or signed. Stated in detail or quantitive otherwise should send a message that should be heard unless like the some who don't give a rat's ass.

Really now, does any author here not try to provoke emotion?

An author who persistantly writes of disrespect, humiliation, or otherwise tries to non-humanly twist reader emotion is perceived as sick and without evidence to the contrary they most certainly are regardless of the talent displayed.

If an author has the right to spew inhuman disrespect without balance who can resonably deny reader umbrage - free speech for each one can clearly say.

Stay away you say - well we can say that quite equally to an author by score or comment.

It's just a story you say - can you say that you didn't intend to cause emotions?

All authors are risk takers - gamblers if you will - if everyone who gambled won what would be the point? Accept that you will never please all or most all the time. The feedback may shape you clinically or themewise - it is a choice like many others.

So don't be farcical or thin skinned unless you feel you should. Consequences can't be ignored if they are repetitive - change or accept or quit.

It is interesting that recently some author's don't even allow scoring. It signals that they know their theme is wrong or truly sick in 99% of human minds - they accept that so why shouldn't we semi-normals. Is it just a story to them - I don't think so - it is a reflection of their mindset to be so consistent.

A perfect author or story arouses without disrespect to characters or readers. Balance or consequence is fairly achieved.

Author you are appreciated for causing - no for provoking the thought and discourse you intended.

with Regard (Anon.)

Since you asked.......on Coupling stories, most of these are fantasies. In fantasies, anything is possible, however you should at least relate to some kind of common sense. Since it is a fantasy perhaps birth control can be eliminated, or forgotten. There is no need for the use of a rubber/condom, or the Pill, or any other contraceptive device, because the story is pure fantasy. Fantasy stories do not include midnight feedings, diapering, or raising from conception to college, normally.

It's just the degree of anonymity. I prefer anonymous to creating multiple profiles.

After posting a comment that led to a respectful dialog with the author through email, one of the commenters to the story took umbrage at my comment and visited most of my stories leaving insulting comments and voting 1 on each story he visited. Since then, I tend to comment anonymously. It's bad enough to see a story entering the top 10 in a category get hit with an avalanche of low votes to prevent that from happening, but the rest of my readers have to be disturbed by the infelicitous comments. None of us deserve that.

Plot is always subject to criticism. If an author portrays behavior that you consider harmful or disrespectful or otherwise deleterious without portraying any consequences, you may well ask what is his point. If it is that bad things happen, he could portray this by having a character who observes and is disturbed by it. Then the point is clear. Without that being represented or intimated, the only thing the author has gotten across is that he is capable of writing apparently pointless disturbing material. A reader may fairly comment on that; even be outraged at having wasted his time reading something that was pointless.

As for constructive criticism, if there are serious flaws and you write promising material, you will likely get your best feedback privately in email. A serious critic doesn't want to risk your public embarrassment by revealing a critical flaw in you story. Also, the better you write, the more likely you are to get that kind of feedback. There is little point in telling someone about improper homonyms when the story is beyond redemption.

The anonymous comments that disturb me most are the positive ones. "I loved it but I don't understand xxx." Well, I'd tell you if you left me some way to do it. These come in email as well and leave me frustrated.

The best feedback will usually come from people who read your stories before they are posted. Send the story with quesitons. Did you root for any of the characters? Did the twist at the end work? Was the dialog realistic? Were the characters' actions consistent? And when you get that feedback, anything you hear from more than one person is almost certainly right. You know what you meant to do. Your reader only knows what you actually did. You can suspect its impact, but only someone who hasn't written it can feel the impact.

The readers owe us nothing. They read it or they don't. They like it or they don't. They trash it or they praise it or they don't comment. And that's the way it is.

I have never taken the time to be an author on Literotica, but I have been a reader for quite some time; on many occasions I have defended the authors against criticism when I have taken the time to read their stories right then...sadly, due to time constraints most of the stories I have downloaded are archived and remain unread, but I believe it lends credence to someones opinions to be anti-Romulan in nature and not live in the fear that people will realize who you are by the type of criticisms you tend to express about the stories you are reading. I think one thing some fail to realize is that in life some are above and some are below the levels we either expect in them, or that we have achieved ourselves. Writing skills take time and effort to develop, be tolerant of others and their abilities, or apparent lack thereof.

I totally agree with you... in fact I just wrote an essay about this topic myself - although who knows when it will come out since the new stories have been kind of slow - but I also find myself very frustrated by stupid people.

I think that the readers who are defending anonymous comments and openness need to understand that this essay is probably not about them. Not ALL anonymous commentors do this kind of thing... but I know I have definitely gotten someone threatening me to be rated as a "1" just because the first chapter of a series wasn't marked as such. Now what's the point in that?

As a writer AND reader I always try to give constructive comments, and those who are sitting there going "Hey, I leave comments anonymously, but I don't do a lot of the things that they're talking about..." and defended it, I don't think you understand how detrimental some of these cruel comments can be to an author. This essay didn't use some of the worst comments that people can get - which can include threats, racial slurs, and downright insults. It's frustrating and upsetting.

There are times when I wish that commenters had to have at least one story posted themselves... just becuase those who are detrimental and cruel are bad enough that sometimes the people who aren't also aren't enough to counteract them.

Thank you for the good essay and pointing out to people some of the points that bother me the most. =)

*HUGS*

There's not much that I can add to the comments posted for your essay, except to say that I agree that the "hate mail" is of little use to helping a writer improve his/her writing skills. It can however, make us a little more thick skinned and able to shrug off the ignorant comments.

Feedback is the best way to learn. Even when we were in school, feedback was a necessary tool for learning. Constructive critism is the best feedback. It doesn't stroke our ego. It goes straight to the matter at hand and gives us a mirror that reflects back on our works.

Keep up the good work. Write when you have the urge. Write about the things that you want to write about....and let the critisms fall where they may. I'm done rambling.

enovelist...

I agree with most of your comments. I don't mind the anon as long as the critique is valid - good or bad. But I have learned to really enjoy some like the following:

"Your storie is shit. I hatded every minuet of it."

Laughter is good for the soul, and a welcome relief for the author. Then - I give silent thanks to every teacher who forced me to do the work.

Thank you for writing this! As an author of 25+ stories on this site I count myself as lucky that I have never received hateful feedback, but have received some that is negative and not helpful. I always try to leave feedback but wondered if making suggestions for improvement was a good idea. I now know that it is and I will try to make my comments constructive if I see the need.

Thanks again for writing what a lot of us other authors feel and for giving some helpful guidelines to useful feedback.

Dear author, thank you for bringing this issue for a discussion. I believe that I can add an additional angel to this forum. I also hope that this angel is, and should remain rare.

The fact that there is not such a small percentage of intolerant non constructive feedback from readers is evident. Still, I want to defend it in the name of tolerance. To the most part it should be ignored. On certain cases it merits a reaction.

My personal real shocker though happened when I tried to do that within the framework of a feedback to one specific story. The bottom line - I have been removed off the feedback forum by the author. I certainly have not seen it coming. No, I never cursed or called the author by any name. Yes, I gave a reasoned review for each of the story’s three chapters. I even came with suggestions for each chapter. Parenthetically, I do not think that non-writers should always attach suggestions to their feedbacks. I also think that even saying ‘I loved it ‘or ‘I did not like it’ is a constructive feedback.

Yes, I was critical, especially regarding the last chapter which did not work for me. Most reviewers did like the story. Few reviewers were critical (especially of the third chapter).

Than came the “hate feedback” from other readers towards the dissenting minority. We were called any thing from Nazis to people who should not take the space (?) of others on the feedback forum. I responded to this hate feedback by sending a follow up feedback (not an unusual feature on Literotica’s feedback’s forum) by using humor; identifying the specific symptoms of the intolerant reactions and offering to debate any point in the story’s narrative on which I based my evaluation, as long as the debate would be to the merit.

Next thing I know, my last message, calling for tolerance and debate, was taken away by the author. Last time I checked the Nazi labels are still displayed there (I am not suggesting to take them off either).

This author‘s reaction heart me a great deal, especially since many of my family members were killed by the Nazis. A sad other side of the coin – I never meant to heart this author. I never disrespected him or called him by names. Yet, he allowed ‘Nazi’ labels to stay and removed my call for tolerance and debate.

When I open one of my stories up for voting and comments I do so WITHOUT RESERVATION. I do not edit the comments (by rejecting them from publication) nor scream foul if someone rates one of my (few) stories poorly. I accept all comments.

To me, writing is hard work, so my natural inclination is to immediately become defensive if someone criticizes my work. However, that reaction lasts less than a split second if the critique is really a flame. Flames get me laughing too hard to care. Conversely, a serious critique is the only one which merits my attention. Having someone point out mistakes I’ve made in story logic or grammar is heart wrenching, and I appreciate every single word of that commentator.

Being a lazy writer, I’ve critiqued more than my fair share of stories. I like to think that I only look at the content of the piece. To me, grammar and punctuation do matter. A poorly written story is a poorly written story, so I make no apologies for pointing that out. Failures in timelines and inconsistent motives and actions will likely draw an opinion too. If there is any consolation, it’s that I only comment on stuff that catches my interest.

I’m particularly fond of “Loving Wives” stories. That category seems to draw the most comments, and create the most controversy; and it also has the BEST storytellers. Those stories tend to be so compelling because so many readers can relate directly to the characters and their experiences. Having said that, I do avoid reading, voting, and commenting on stories where the author has prefaced a warning that the theme is cuckolding or the joy of adultery. I don’t care for that kind of story so my voting would be unfair in that situation. I also avoid BDSM tales too…just not my cup of tea.

I recently wrote a comment to a story in the “Romance” category because I could not relate to the outcome or to the motives of the main characters. In fact, I found not a single redeeming character in the entire tale. That got me blasted by someone who was upset that I ventured to comment on the story outside of “Loving Wives”. I would have responded except that I hate to see tit-for-tat banter between commentators in the Feedback section. I’ve engaged in that poor behavior once and thought afterward that that was the most disrespectful thing I could have done to the author.

Some authors on Lit have a following that is very defensive about any bad things being said about their work. I found that out by accident when I made a minor criticism on a story that I rated a 5. Someone forgot to notify me that only accolades were acceptable. Of course that kind of behavior goes against the very idea of an open Feedback process.

In my opinion, Feedback should be directed at the story…not the author and most certainly not at another commentator. It’s just bad form. It’s also bad form to personally attack an author because of what they’ve written …or to reprimand a commentator after you’ve solicited their opinion as the author.

I know whereof you speak, brother (or sister). I have over 65 stories on this site, and while most of them get good responses, I've gotten some feedback that would curl your hair. This is usually in response to cheating wife stories, which I happen to like. I had one guy who called me a "sick, sick bastard," just because I wrote about a wife who was screwing around on business trips. I almost have to laugh at these types. Do they not know what's going to happen when they read a story in the Loving Wives section that has the word temptation in the title? I've also been called a spineless wimp because I like to have the husbands forgive the wives if that's what's called for. I don't know, maybe they're just so insecure that they have to transfer those insecurities to a writer. Thanks for tackling this subject.

All writers have war stories about the feedback they get and their reaction to same.

My personal fav was early in my writing career. I posted a rape fantasy that was by any standards extremely mild. But I got feedback from one person who told me that she knew where I lived and was going to take me to court and sue me.

Twice I have actually taken reader advice in molding the direction of a story and both times I fell flat on my face. Take that for what it is worth.

Usually the hate mail is restricted to a couple of story categories. If you don't want hate mail, write Romance stories. THe worst that can happen is they won't like it. But they won't threaten to kill your first born.

A "Loving Wife" story is sure to generate hate mail unless it is a totally alien genre within the category (i.e., no cheating). "Interracial" stories bring out the bigots. And "Nonconsent" stories attract feminists with hair under their arms who want to cut your balls off.

Hey, you take the bitter with the batter.

Very good! However as writers, why do we write? We obviously are not in it for the money; at least not here. I believe a writer should do their work for his or her, own reasons. Possibly just for the love of creating something new, that was in your mind and nowhere else, prior to you placing it on the web. Are we all Feedback Junkies? I think not. Remember only about eight percent of the people in the world have the ability to put words down on paper that make sense in a story.

The lower five percent of the people; usually can’t even read, so our concerns for their opinions have no practical purpose. The next step up; are people who for some unknown reason are jealous of abilities, which are beyond them, or worse yet afraid to post their own work. What do they do? They become critical of someone else’s work. They don’t know the individual, so they have no concerns as to the individual writers feelings.

There is an old saying that sets forth a general truth, which has gained credit through long use.

“Writers write. People who cannot write … teach. People who cannot teach … criticize.”

We are all doing what we do for our own enjoyment and to share our thoughts with the world. If you wish to open your work for critical viewpoints, be ready to accept the consequences, good and bad. Should you get a bad one once in a while, roll with the punches and consider the source. If by some horrible turn of events, you receive only bad criticism, as I have seen on some story Feedback, you should probably heed the warning and take a long look at your own work; and just maybe look for the assistance of your peers. I know that most of the writers would not mind helping a fledging writer.

Good article.

...both what you wrote and the public comments(42 when I read it)that followed. I can't remember all the names, but thebullet, sack and cloudy and others summed it up pretty well. After 154 submissions to Lit, I've received lots of feedback and generally it was okay. With the public comment feature, it's gotten much more negative and yeah, anonymous is generally the most negative though not always.

For a time I went through public comments and attacked the anonymous public comment that was no more than hateful. Sack is right, too many people reading these stories seem to think they are real. They're not for the most part. The wrongly titled Loving Wives section followed by Interracial seem to generate the worst of the worst. I've become convinced over a period of time that there are people out there waiting for an interracial story just to vote a 1 and send an actual anonymous feedback filled with racial slurs regarding the story and me. Loving Wives, somehow the "dirty slut" should be killed at the least and the husband, well, the fate that awaits him sometimes is far worse. And why? I don't know. It's just a story 99% of the time. Yet these hate filled comments continue and then I have to wonder why people keep coming back to a category they hate so much.

So yeah Cloudy, I wish people would register. I wish people would send feedback with an valid email address, but in the strictess sense of all of this, it's still anonymous. You can send me something as TwistedPlayr but I still don't really know who you are. I guess that's why I can't understand the cowardice of hiding behind anonymous despite those that do it and defend it.

So yeah, take away the audios by the Dawn and the poems, and we have a lot of written stories and I don't see anything changing. Sure you can delete public comments and I've deleted one but it was darn vulgar I just had to in my opinion. Otherwise, good or bad, I leave them up. Feedback is always appreciated and if we receive feedback we always respond. I guess because half the stuff written by us is in the nature of a stroke story, the feedback isn't constructive, but it's not bad either. Fun stuff isn't it?

Nice job!

I just wanted to let you know that my submission about this has come out, I don't concentrate on all the same things you do, but I'm rather tickled that we both chose to write about this topic at about the same time =)

You can find mine under the title, "What I Don't Understand"

=D

Good work! *HUGS*

I see good feedback as precise, offered as a gift to the receiver - therefore requiring thought in choosing what to give - that they can accept or reject as their right.

So I found your article informative, humourous and rung so many bells with me I want to become a campanologist.

Keep it up (if that is right vicar! lol)

P. Grimm

I am amazed not only : at the tone of most 'criticism' but its anonymous nature. I only signed up so that I could tell authors I either appreciated their stories or in order to leave a meaningful vote.

I may not like a story - but I do appreciate the guts it takes to put it up there.

I want to say that despite "needing to be said" this well-written piece would be ignored by those who should read it and take it heart. Then I had a little change of heart and now I think some of those hopefully former cretins might have read this after all. I hope so.

Thanks for taking the time.