All Comments on 'The Rules of Fidelity and...'

You may feel of a different century but you have more companions here as well. I too believe that the commentment that two people give to each other,in marriage, is a honor pact between the two. No court or law needs to be involved to make it more or less binding. When either party breaks that pact the damage is done. The feelings of trust can never be regained completely. Yes, there can be a new different relationship, but it will never have the trust of the first. Also the cheated party may never know but the damage is done any way.

I have also found in business that marrage fidelity is a good indicator of business morals. Those who have cheated on their spuose are much more likly to cheat in a business setting. In my own business I have let several employees go as a result of infidelity. I have never lost a case if they have chosen to sue me over thier dismissal. Most people know a cheater is always a cheater.

You are on the mark with your thoughts. Good luck to you in finding a mate.

Boyd

People with honour, or integrity.

The silent majority.

We read some of the trash so many authors post, but couldn't be bothered to comment on them or the banal comments of their worshippers. Then they think they rule without opposition. Poor fools.

I like your thoughts on relationships and life in general.

Interesting exposition, but entirely abstract coming from one who has never been married nor presumably in love. You acknowledge that swingers alter their contract, but that all others are bound to your black and white world. In fact, our contracts evolve continuously during the course of a marriage. Your focus on ownership of genitals, which you equate with "honor", ignores the real issues of love and a partnership - respect, communication, honoring your partner, and shared emotions.

about the agreed upon marital commitment binding body and mind to each other.

Does anyone ever wonder why is the marriage requirements and confinements are saught so strongly by people wishing to join each other for life? So trust and love can grow without the barriers of other people and the conflicts of intimacy accompaning them. Only in that structured agreed upon space can a fragile confidence in each other help assure a family position of trust and respect. It isn't a commitment to share your body and emotions with anyone else as that breaks the marital trust and respect which binds both comfortably to the relationship.

Author, the only position you took which is disagreeable as contrary and self defeating to marriage is swinging. When two legally married people agree to swing they violate the legal agreement in principal and factually disagree with it. If the conscience you spoke of doesn't cause friction and contractual disolution (divorce) then deeper problems exist and will eventually surface. These selfish needs will eventually cause family problems and the wonderments of true family feelings to children and close family members. There are no true secrets beyond more than one person. Eventually, the "it's only sex" defense won't work internally or externally as it is only a selfish justification kidding no one long term. Sharing with others is never truly balanced and it bubbles to the surface as selfish and distrust from our conscience.

Otherwise a remarkable insight - thanks Author - with high Regard

I could make up believable statistics, but I think my arguments will work without them.

I suspect the biggest reason that so many marriages break up is that the partners don't talk enough BEFORE they get married. How will they handle money? Will she continue to work after they have children? What are their life goals? Do they involve acquisition of wealth? Do they involve personal achievement? Are they looking to do most things together or to have support for pursuing what interests each of them? How much time do they expect to spend together? Is it important to have a flashy car, magazine-quality house, plasma TV? Is it important that they practice their religion together and do they agree on what that involves? Anyway, I suspect from having handled around 1000 divorces that too many of these questions are unanswered before marriage, which leads to unpleasant surprises.

I also suspect that the path to infidelity often starts with unmet expectations, notwithstanding that the expectations exist because the parties haven't discussed them, "but of course (s)he must think that way." Many guys probably put more research into the truck they're buying than the woman they're marrying and most women probably put more time into planning the wedding than the marriage.

Marriage is not only a legal contract, more importantly it is a de facto contract. If they are religious, there may be more than two parties to the contract. If it is between just two people, they pretty much have the right to enter into any agreement that suits both of them, including compromises on important issues, like how often you're willing to put up with your mother-in-law. It may include frequency and type of sex, how they will spend their money, whether they will have pets and how often they can go out with the guys/girls. Any of these might be deal breakers, but if they don't discuss them before, they may make the wrong deal.

Why should they not be free to agree to swinging? The odds of failure whether they agree to monogamy or not are approaching 60%. If they feel that enhances both their lives, why should anyone else tell them how to live, any more than someone else would have the right to tell them whether they should have children and how many?

In the rest of life, violations of contracts occur all the time and often result in the contract being dissolved by the parties, sometimes resulting in lawsuits to settle the damages commensurate with the breach. Sometimes the parties are able to work out their differences and continue with the agreement or establish new terms that allow them to continue the contractual relationship.

It is the same for marriage. Those things are decided on a case by case basis depending on the life philosophies of the parties in deciding whether the relationship has been so damaged that continuation would not be workable. It's not just cheating that leads to these pressures. If your spouse secretly gambles your money away, you probably have an even more serious breach of trust because the likelihood of a repeat of the behavior is extremely high. What if she spends too much on clothes or he spends too much on gadgets? This puts constant financial pressure on the couple and can result in deterioration of communication.

When any of these problems become serious, it's easier to cheat. You're already in trouble. A break-up is looming. Cheating may help you feel some relief from the pressure. And if you are caught, well you were probably going to divorce anyway so you aren't really risking much.

Marriage is damn hard work.

Living alone may be even harder.

I would bet that the author has some fancy explanation as to how he found his way to this site.

Ditto how he happened to read the story he speaks of.

Males (notice that I didn't say men) who DEMAND exclusivity are often abusers.

We all expect exclusivity but most often the lack of it is symptomatic of some other problem.

The bigger discussion is how to handle it.

Having been there and having worked thru it to the point of having recently celebrated our 50th all I can say is that it requires a desire to stay married.

Meanwhile anyone who has found their way here is certainly not "Holier than I"

I used a search engine when my, at the time, girlfriend and I were looking for something hot to read together.

As for Males demanding exclusivity you might look up the definition of the word MONOGAMOUS, which was the focus of the article.

As for abusers it seems based on your comments that that is your forte not mine.

As for the desire to stay married after infidelity, I never eliminated it as an option. I said that the breach of trust and loss of honor was HARD to recover from not IMPOSSIBLE.

And I,at least, have the courage to post my comments publicly instead of taking potshots at anothers work like a coward hiding behind and Anonymous title.

I'm fairly certain that most people entering into a marriage do so with every intention of upholding the contract of monogamy, working and communicating with their spouse and all the rest that goes with it. However, almost nobody goes into a first marriage understanding what it really means to be in a long-term committed relationship. Our society does very little to prepare people for true intimacy and commitment. Our communications skills are largely lacking and we rarely get a glimps into what makes a successful marriage.

Further, over the course of many years people change and things happen. Sex is only one part of a marriage and the importance of sex is different to different people. Sex drives change dictated by health, children and simply growing older. It is possible for even the most committed couples to discover that one person no longer meets their needs. Marriage, as it is currently defined in our society, does not address this possibility, in fact it makes it socially unacceptable for couples to find a way to have their needs met outside the traditional model.

I have been married for a fairly long while, unlike the author who never has been married. I have seen my relationship change. I have come to the conclusion that different things work for different people and some of those things are not going to be widely accepted. I am learning not to judge what other people do. Yes, sometimes one member of a couple gets hurt. Sometimes they get through it and sometimes they split up, but it is not for me (or anyone else) to say what is right for someone else. It is easy to judge when you've never been there.

And you're right; once you make a commitment you should be willing to keep it.

It also is a commitment that is made with the sanction of God. [unless you do something like a JP]. If you stray from your marriage, breaking your vows, you also break your vows with God.

In marriage you become ONE. What you do directly affects the other part of the ONE.

why do authors feel like they must point out negative comments under anonymous, The site allows it so live with it and quit pointing it out like because the commenter is anonymous, the comment is invalid. No author has ever suggested that a positve comment from a nonny mouse should be retracted or is without merit.

That being said, "my-my-my" is striking out at you because you struck a sensitve nerve.

on "why not swinging" - I'm confused regarding specifically the legal aspects. The agreed upon marital contract sets forth conditions of exclusivity. In any other exclusive contract (business, etc), that requires a written ammendment of detailed variation signed by both or all parties or it's back to go and no $200.00.

Strickly speaking couldn't one also argue that the parties now involved are also any minor children resulting from the contract and affected by it's any violation that affects or jepordises thier safty and welfare?

In any case, the spirit of the agreement of commitment is broken by alterations of the moment agreed upon or tolerated temporarily. These vocal acquiesences forced or not thought through do not void or compromise the original contract in any judges eyes when relief is saught by either party.

Nor are there respect or trust "fixit" pills to take and dull or void the oh God feelings in the morning's light.

Hey, you wanna watch or have different lovers then break the contract first and avoid the pains of stradling the fence without any reality of cushioned free fall. First "Decommit" if you will and also provide safty for all your acquired during commitment obligations - children, etc.. Seems like the right thing to do for all until the fog of uncertainty or directional change clears.

Sorry Author - your efforts are working though aren't they!

That is to cause thought and expression. - with High Regard

This is such a simple concept and yet so few seem to grasp it. Words such as honor, respect, integrity & commitment have fallen by the wayside in nearly every aspect of our daily lives. The Golden Rule...

Treat others the way YOU expect to be treated...

And, while you will be disappointed more often than not, the option is to become like them. Not an option in my book!

Once you have been married for 25 years and have been faithful for all that time, then maybe I would value your opinion on this. In the meantime, your lifestyle does not seem to warrant your rightousness. But don't worry, your hypocracy is a typical American phenomenon. The liberal who allows abortion but fights the death penalty. The conservative who is pro-life, but pro-death penalty and pro our rape of Iraq.

The bond of love is emotional-not physical. People can be attracted, even have sex with another person without destroying the emotional fidelity they have with another person.

My first wife left my clothes on the front porch, changed the locks and left a note she had run off with my best friend, expect divorace papers shortly, and by the way would I feed her cat. I never had sex with any one else in the 10 years we were married but she was never emotionally faithfull.

My current wife and I have been married 32 years and have swung with other couples and had sex with other people seperetly but we both know how important emotional fidelity is and each of us knows everything there is to know about the other. If consenting adults want to have sex with each other, and everyone involved agrees, that is no one's business except theirs.

even as a single person (not unlike the original author)

if a couple decided, together, to engage swapping bodiliy fluids with other consenting adults, it is no one's darn business!

on the other hand,,, I completely agree with the original author whe it comes to some of the other aspects of life, loving, relationships, and living,,,

i mean, if someone loves fucking so much, why the hell tie yourself to just one person? don't marry!

if you got married before "knowing" yourself, just get divorced immediately! THEN fuck until you die,,,, no one cares!

(of course, like the last gentleman said, you might ask and see if the spouse would be willing to swap, first! it don't hurt to ask!,,, but if they said NO, then go ahead head towards the nearest divorce court,,, then go "find" yourself by fucking as much and as many as you want!!)

here we're not talking the tales in Literotica but real life situations,,,,

in fact, in real life, as someone said it recently, it's actually many magnitudes uglier than described here on these fictional stories. countless women are still BURNT or stoned to death, even in the year of our lord 2005! countless others, "in the more civilized" societies like America, are, when caught, made to pay a much higher price than philandering males,,,

some husbands, on the other hand, have been castrated or ran over. (all the more power to those wronged women, I say, even as a guy),,, in other cases, if true repentance is somehow shown, after a lot of tears, reconcialable is possible, too, yes

but NO ONE, including those cheating people themselves, would be willing stay with a deceitful and cheating person.

and if you have kids?, why do it? just fuckin' divorce first, then fuck!, if sex is that important!

personally I find exchanging bodily fluids repugnant, other than with someone I know, love, and trust completely. one out of every five or so people have some kind of a vicious bacteria or viruse,,,, it is actually pretty gross, if you think about it,,, especially for women, who are really the receptor of most of the bodily fluids excreted during sex.

the level of willful ignorance among most of these "loving" wives, exemplified by most of these stories, is so outrageous it is actually funny: they actually demand, in many cases, that their fuckbuddies NOT wear condoms; that they want to have them come deep inside them (cheating wives)

again, we know, judging how diseases spread, that these Literotical "stories" are nowhere close to the "reality" out there in the "real world" among us promiscuous, naked apes!

I agree with your every word for im catholic and when you make those vows in the marriage you are in it for life .

Pat Murray

Atlanta,Ga.

A recent commentator states that love is an emotional commitment, not a physical one. I agree to a great extent. However, it's important to understand that most humans (including many men) feel that an emotional component enhances a sexual experience. Indeed, many people choose only to have sex with someone with whom they have an emotional bond of some level.

That said, it is often difficult to separate the emotional from the physical. Thus, when someone claims to have "just had sex" and "it didn't mean anything," then they are either denying their emotional connection to their cheating sex partner, or perhaps are communicating to their marriage (or other significant) partner that sex, even between them, is not emotional. It doesn't matter if the perpetrator feels that way or not, the communication may be taken that way (and presumably, for good reason).

So, while love is indeed emotional, sexual activity, or more specifically, sexual intimacy, often has an emotional component that is not unconnected.

Yes, a couple can choose to swing, but most often, one partner desires it more than the other. Also, if you swing with strangers and do not get involved emotionally, you're likely safer from an emotional perspective than if you swing with "friends" or "lovers."

Excellent commentary on both sides, but the reality of swinging is that it often results in problems. (And don't quote "swinging stats" that often exclude the one-timers who end up divorced or extremely unhappy over the experience.)

who rated at 50% have a large amount of personal issues. The anti-conservative, pro-choice, pro-death penality for anyone who opposes them like conservatives etc, and is opposing the "bleeding of Iraq". The US is spending hundreds of billions of dollars we don't have to end a terrorism base and give the Iraqi people a chance (where this morphs into the US bleeding Iraq I have not figured out). The 50% of brains commenter who has nothing to show his/her/its point that the men who want to stay with their wives and their wives to stay with them (not the drug peddler down the street) are mostly abusers. Do you have anything in statistics to prove this or even hint of this? I would really think that most of the abusers would tend to be hard drinking, drugging types who are totally unfaithful to their vows.

I do agree that the wedding vows given before God are sworn to be permanent and binding on the couple. If soemhting so major has changed that there is not love (except self-love) and no intent to be faithful, I can live with a seperation or a divorce. PS I am another one of those Anon readers.

Just checking...

and for the record, you sound just like a Marine or five I have known....

man, don't most of "Us" all sound alike?

the difference is not in the talk we talk, tis in the walk we walk!

Keep on keepin' on!

former Marine and literotica lover

I enjoyed your essay and share your views on honor and commitment, but I'm absolutely fascinated by the range of reactions you drew from your readers. I am particularly amazed by some of the sweeping assumptions being made. The idea that ANY political party has cornered the market on fidelity, commitment, or honor is pretty much mind-boggling in it's absurdity. TRUTHFUL, HONORABLE POLITICIAN is roughly equivalent to MILITARY INTELLIGENCE, CONGRESSIONAL ETHICS, or JUMBO SHRIMP. Likewise, I'm somewhat nonplussed by the assumption that the author's views on marriage are compromised by the fact that he has never married (I highly recommend it, by the way). I suspect that many (most?) of the married, monogamous, and faithful among us found their views on fidelity reinforced by their marriage, rather than reshaped by it. Likewise, what difference does it make HOW he got here? Does reading/writing erotica invalidate his opinion? If it does, would it not similarly invalidate YOUR opinion? Thank you, Landrious1 for an educational and entertaining experience

Apart from matters of trust, honor, contractual obligations, etc, all civilized and all, but alas, inadequate except for reference, I think that like Bonobos, swans, pigions, and some other species we are hard-wired for monogamy, BUT also like gorillas, penguins, etc we are hard wired for variegation in partners season after season, or outright alpha-male, top-dog polygamy. In different degrees for each of us. Which is why the greatest single cause for brutality against women is male sexual jealousy -- it short circuits all thought or care for loved ones and consequences, truly blinding. A male WILL not unwittingly share his mate or raise another man's seed. As witness most kneejerk responses here to infidelity stories ("KILL THE BITCH!" in various surrogate forms is always the majority respose, even among real life milquetoasts, the rage real even though the bitch is fantasy fiction).

And the reason why is evolutionary -- in the absence of a village, tribe, herd, school, gaggle, etc to help raise kids, a well-teamed mating pair is essential given the long period of helplessness of our young. If she's sexually active at all (say from age 15 to her probable death age 35 on average until the 1800s), the female is assigned by her biology to be pregnant, nursing, or caring for small children (since she has to hang out home anyhow). This works best if there's a dedicated male bringing home the bacon and defending her from predators. Thus stereotypical sex roles, characteristics, etc, enforced by hormones (in various ways and degrees in each of us, we are NOT assembly line uniform but "chance variegated" as Darwin said). The rest is how our civilized consciences and intellects reconceive the imperatives, as mandated by law, contract, God, principle, or an essential expediency (Trust lost is indeed near-impossible to rebuild).

Our shifting social groups and mores, the lack of nearby extended families for most, above all effective contraception -- for only the last fifty or hundred years of the past 60,000 we've existed, think of it! -- has opened this situation up and renderede fantasy fears and solemn affirmations of commitment all the more consequential. Which is why I think the best of these stories raises our awareness of the issues way higher than kneejerk "Kill 'er!" or pious "Do the Right Thing" can approach. These are difficult matters to be treated with the greatest care and sensitivity, with different resolutions -- even if only "make do" and "best of a bad bargain" -- for each.

The heart us a muscle. The heart doesn't have emotions. It's hard to take an essay seriously that speaks of a muscle "wanting" someone or something.

You have postet the dumbest comment have read in a long time, and I am a regular guest in the Loving Wifes Section. Spectacular Achievement!

I agree completely. In any other dealings, a contract is a contract. It is enforcable. At one time in this country verbal contracts were upheld as well as written ones. Honor was respected and expected. In this "New Age" there is very little honor and it is not respected. Take the example set by the last 20 years of our own governmett. Contracts are written only to be broken. Standing up for what is right, just, and honorable will get you lauged out of most any type of relationship.

Again, thank you

Several of the commenters have claimed that the author's opinion is invalid because he has never been married. But this could not be further from the truth. The essay is one about morality. Society's moral views on a subject do not solely depend upon those most involved. Think of the legislative implications of what you are saying. Should only restaurant owners determine food safety laws? Should breweries decide on the drinking age? The fact of the matter is, society depends upon the interaction of varying social interests. The married represent a valid interest, but so do the unmarried. The two are equally valid.

So where is the loving wife story?

You, of course, are entitled to your opinion, but if you've never been married you can't possibly understand the mechanics and logistics of the relationship. You assume that the person committing the adultery has chosen to "throw away the precious marriage". Maybe the marriage wasn't so "precious" before the affair?

I understand committment and vows and the whole damn concept behind marriage, but after 30 some odd years, my wife turned into a hateful shrew, who can find little good about anything, or anyone, including and especially me. Sure, I know the comments will follow that I'm a cheater and don't deserve her esteem, But, her ill temper and contemptuous behavior started long before I fell in love with a woman who also loved me. Plus, my wife has no idea of my infidelity, so her behavior is not in retaliation. And no, I don't intend to tell her. BTW: By mutual agreement, after eight years, the woman and I ended our relationship.

The subject at hand here is far too broad to be discussed easily here. There have been countless books written on the subject of infidelity and the reasons for such. There are as many reasons for it as there are relationships, because each is like a snow flake - no two are alike. And that goes for both the marriage, and the adulterous arrangement. I will venture to say, and I speak from experience, there is usually more than one reason which leads someone into the arms of another. Some, of course, in many circumstances, and I'm sure it was the writer's intent to convey, are less noble than others.

I am not a sociopath, so yes, I do harbor guilt, but on my death bed I'll regret more that I didn't leave my wife to be with the woman I fell in love with, than I'll regret having the affair in the first place. There is no honor staying with someone you don't love and who doesn't love you, just because you took some vows when you were too young to know better.

One of the choices to make is to stay out of temptationms way. there are a lot of attractive temptations out there and it is a choice to let them develop or not.

The heart is affected by attitude and input.

I agree with most of this. Not all if it but certainly most of it.

I have the answer: selfishness! What I want is more important than anything else. It is all about ME. You are right that it takes two working together to make a relationship work. When one of them decide that MY WANTS ARE MORE IMPORTANT, the relationship is no more. The only way a relationship works is if both partners assume that the other's wants and needs are more important than their own. I know it works, I married my wife at 19 and that was 57 years ago. We still stay in bed every morning for a while just to be close and cuddle and TALK to each other.

detroitdave

The sooner we as a democratic society change the No Faults Divorce Law the better. There are no other contracts, we commit our signatures too, that are taken with such scant regard.

If I owned a vehicle, you would not be allowed to drive my vehicle (even if you had a key) without my permission. Even if you only did it once. Even if it didn’t stop you from loving your own car. You just did it for the thrill and to see what it was like to drive someone else’s car. It would still be considered theft, you would be breaking the law, if caught you would be made to suffer the consequences.

If I had a business partner with whom I had a written contract to conduct business with, I could not then start jointly working with a third party, cutting my partner out without suffering contractual and financial penalties. The law simply would not allow it. A marriage should be treated no differently.

I know marriage is a verbal contract and not a written one and perhaps there lies the root course to the problem. Perhaps a written contract mounted on the bedroom wall of every married couple might be a great reminder of what is required under the terms of the contract. Penalties could also be stipulated on the contract almost like a prenup. A penalty might be the wronged party receives 50% of the guilty parties’ joint assets in the divorce settlement.

I wonder how many would-be philanderers would think twice before embracing someone other than their spouse?

The heart wants what the heart wants, best play the field when unmarried. If your a wife or husband get your head out of your ass bitch. Anyone who cheats doesnt love their partner no matter how much shit they say and do.