All Comments on 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

I like the way this story is going. An interesting twist on an old theme. Great Work

This was just another chuck story and a cheating, whoring slut of a wife. If the husband would have any balls, he would not have let it happen in the first place and he had the opportunity to stop it in the second place. Yet, he decided to send "PLEASE", so John could fuck his wife for another three months. Then what will happen, another three months or maybe even six months?

As for the wife, she has the heart of a whore and a slut that has and is going to betray her husband and daughter. She is no better than he is, except for their names.

What John should do is make a copy of the disk, send it to her workmates, friends, family and a good divorce attorney. Let her be tossed out on her ear and have hubby get custody of their daughter since she is an unfit mother. Naturally, give her visitation rights, but have them supervised by social services. Then let her see if her fucking around was worth loosing her husband, daughter, job, friends, self respect and family.

I thought this was a well written, erotic story exploring the darker side of a relationship.

What amazed me was that the usual cluster of anonomous people bothered to read five pages just so they could leave vitriolic comments at the end. Didn't the title make it obvious that the story wouldn't be to your tatse? The "Lit" in Literotica comes from literature - not litoral. For goodness sake go and read something that appeals to your own sense of the erotic.

I probably don't need to tell Joatster to ignore it. I'm sure he is used to reading such garbage comments.

Never ceases to amaze me how much angst is delivered to many writers of this genre. If you don't like the genre FUCK OFF! In fact do the world a favour and top yourself - you sick fucks. It's only fiction in a site called Literotica!!!!!! Get a life!!!

Goodness me!! So much angst against dickheads.

I enjoyed the story Joatster. A novel twist.

It's interesting how many people read these stories, get off on them, then comlpain about the theme. I think they protest too much, maybe the story got a little too close to their core.

It was well written, erotic, fun to read, and now after sending you this note I'll have to go and fuck my wife. I like doing that anyway, your story will make it even better!

interesting story. the hubby was alittle t passive. I could see him letting it happen the first time but not the second. I guess he is just a cuckold wimp

The hotter the stories of these situations are, the more abusive and vitriolic the comments from the insecure blow-hards that complain about them. They can't stand it because somehow it offends them to think that THEIR wives and girlfriends (if they even have any) may actually be sluts-in-hiding. They are so afraid of their own fragile masculinity being shattered, that they take it out on the writers and readers who like these fantasies.

I just think it goes like this:

I like my wife covered in my cum - filled with it.

I like my wife covered in cum - filled with it.

I like my wife covered and filled with more cum than I, at any one session, can cum up with. It's an erotic thought. Deal with it.

The hotter the stories of these situations are, the more abusive and vitriolic the comments from the insecure blow-hards that complain about them. They can't stand it because somehow it offends them to think that THEIR wives and girlfriends (if they even have any) may actually be sluts-in-hiding. They are so afraid of their own fragile masculinity being shattered, that they take it out on the writers and readers who like these fantasies.

I just think it goes like this:

I like my wife covered in my cum - filled with it.

I like my wife covered in cum - filled with it.

I like my wife covered and filled with more cum than I, at any one session, can cum up with. It's an erotic thought. Deal with it.

It was well written and you have discribed the people and their feelings with great care. The build up was special and very well done. The act of sex and what the lover did to them both was good could have ben better if it was prolonged a little more as you described how she flet as it was being done to her. However, I he had destroyed their marriage and lives and to me it was the most painful amd sadest thing I have ever read on Lit. But, saying that, I believe you need to finish this story one way or the other. I would never think of telling you how to end it but there should be an ending. One where things stay status quo and not change. As someone who loves his wife more than my own life I can only hope the ending will be a happy one. But as life goes on and I get older and more hardened I am thinking once she is take by someone like her lover, her master, like she is being taken she will never be the same and only pain will come to their marriage. Sad very sad.

nicely written. i just dont understand the husband. i mean, i like watching porno, but i would never watch someone i know have sex just to get horny. if my lover doesnt excite me anymore, then its time to take a closer look at the relationship.

well, i guess there are always sick ppl out there. and shouldnt this story be in the fetish category?

The men who, without even the nerve to identify themselves, who feign anger over these types of stories, while continuing to avidly read them, seem far more perverted to me than the man who wrote this wonderful story. The only thing i found that i did not like about the story was that it was written from the husband's viewpoint, not the wife's.

i would love to have known what Suzanne was feeling, what she thought as John turned her into nothing but a sex toy, a slut for His imagination. But then, i know what she was feeling and what she thought...because i have felt it and thought it. Please finish this story. And i too wish for a happy ending...i'm just not sure the other "happy ending" person and i would agree on what that happy ending should be. :)

Good sex but what a wimp! He should have felt happy that his wife was enjoying herself and reflect less on how miserable he felt.

Also, as one of the other commenters has said, I'd like to read the same story from the wife's standpoint.

John could really make this worthless piece of shit of her husband his slave too. He should demand that the only contact he ever had with his wife again was to eat her only after he and maybe some other strangers he had shared her with had cum in her or on her and maybe the only time her husband could even kiss her was after she had sucked John's or some other guy's asshole.

Perhaps he could watch her once in awhile and the price would be for that , that John and his wife would shit in his mouth or on his chest.

John could spend all his time in their city at their house. Hubby had to move out of their bedroom and now the bedroom was only for his wife and John when he was there.

The kid was instructed never to call him daddy again and was to refer to John as Daddy and him as uncle cuckold wimp.

Drastic? not really. He gave up being any close proximity to a man when he sent the e-mail to John. He could be more commonly referred to as a "piece of shit". His wife, a piece of garbage, and the kid, in bad need of foster care.

Maybe after they get through with the wimp cocksucker they can do him a favor and blow his fucking brains out with a 12 gauge shotgun and they can go off and be together forever.

This is what erotic stories should always be like. Tension, good vs evil, love vs lust. Just great! Those people who are locked into their flame comments are obviously against any creativity that might not fit into their own narrow minds, if they have a mind. Joatster, please keep up your wonderful writing.

Really enjoyed this and wondering where this is going. Appreciate seeing the transformation of the wife and would like to see more detail from her perspective. You have correctly filled the category of 'Loving Wife's' and met expectations. wow

Suze has made her choice. I thought this was the end of the tale but some others who made comments that this is only the first chapter.

Perhaps there is hope for Rich after all. He can see the error of his ways. Use the tapes or DVDs of his wife and John as proof of her decadent behavior in court, and divorce her and get custody of his daughter too. Suze doesn't really seem to give a god damn about her anyway as she made her choice over a loving family situation or living a perverted lifestyle with John.

Earlier I observed what lengths John might go to humiliate the husband. his wife will join in this as she finds out what a perverted fuck Rich really is.

John's offer of three months of a trial run shows how he feels versus the six months run Suze wants.

Please Joatster redeem this wimpified jack-off artist and make this guy a man instead of the way you have portrayed him in this chapter. With the filmed evidence of Suze's debauchery, he has plenty of time to prove her perversions. Now to cover Rich's ass and keep all communications with John's secret.

The inevitable sharing of her by John with other men should give Rich the resolve to keep from having any unprotected sex with her ever again, if any sex at all.

I think it more appropriate for Rich to just tell her that as long as she is seeing another man or men, that he will remain celibate.

Joatster, you has a chance of redeeming this wimp. Don't let us down. If they both end up as John's slaves, then you might as well have ended the tale after the first chapter.

i grabbed her and suck her tongue out of her mouth and we both were delirious, hmmm yum-yum!

we're so excited we couldn't wait for our next session, which she's to suck 5 bigger men's assholes, dicks, and swallow tons of semen, saliva, shit, and whatever else they EROTICALLY make her do, with me waiting close by, readying to either take over or simple scrap it from her tongue, mouth, or pussy!

you is hot, dude!

Very well written. I can't say it was particularly hot for me. Seeing another man fuck my wife would only succeed in getting my wife and the man killed. But I can see for those of you with this particular weakeness it very much could be very arousing.

I thought this was going in a different direction so I will disembark here. But, I wish you a lot of luck with it.

I am getting mellow in my old age. :-)

Regards,

C

Inevitably on a story like this which debases the human race and men in particular there are those who say - For Gods sake if you don't like it then don't read it.

How simplistic - sort of like the person making that comment who needs to consider themselves as the source of that voiced stupidity.

One reads this towards the conclusion, because we know if there is any male spine at all, the wimp in the corner is going to take a stand as would 99.9% of real men or anyone with a brain. So when the mighty cuckster strikes out helplessly with a writer contrived bewildered look in his mind and on his smiling face it dashes any respect for talent displayed by a writer for himself and his work. Distaining reality so harshly is absurdly contrived for writer satisfaction to shock and demean himself as it excites him as intended. The negative comments also charge his sordid batteries as he sinks into his own disgusting contrivance of self despair. What more could a self cuckold want or need except our ultimate disgust of his disrespect of self and us as semi-normal people.

The exceptions are the few deeply sick wimps and wimpets(men and women) who need helpless pathetic male humiliation to get excited - turned on. They are to be pitied for their lack of humanity and their shameful outlook on life.

So to answer for once and for all why do we read in total or in large part those things which disgust us - probably for the same reason they are written - because we can. Then we reserve the same right of speech as does the writer which in our case is to respond with reason our feelings about his work - both talent and subject matter.

Many of us feel that when a writer spends this much time developing a plot path in a theme contrary to the basic value of humanity, it does cast aspersions on the mindset of the writer who must feel his work represents his values or the effort wouldn't have been spent. Remember there is no pay for product here. No other incentive other then personal satisfaction and some reader satisfaction.

It upsets normal people when a Jeffrey Domher kills and eats people after having sex with thier dead body parts - it upsets semi-normal people when a dog is tortured or a cat has a cherry bomb explode its body.

Why then is it that these same people who normally react humanly can feel that this writers fantasy or real work is of any value ??? Is it because they are in a dark room unseen by normal people?

Puzzling writer but very revealing of you and your support readers. Respect is more than a word.

Which none of you ever answer:

Is this the type of life you want for your daughter? Or is John the kind of man you want your son to grow up to be?

Kids learn from the parents. They have no voice or option.

Upon further refection I think if I were the husband in this family, and a MAN, I would run, not walk to the nearest DSS and turn us all in before we really fucked our poor kid up!

The ony way to really address this problem.

of the willing cuckold stories. Many people believe that the humiliation endured by the husband is the erotic part of these stories. The erotic part of this story is the dominance by John over the husband and the slut wife. Every guy imagines that he is John and every woman wants John to take her. The personal humiliation only emphasizes the control John has over their lives.

Although these stories are not my cup of tea I understand their appeal and I rate your stories high because you do such a good job of getting in the head of this sick couple. I term it sick because there is no balance in the marriage. She fucks other men who uses her and the husband jerks off. Between these episodes they pretend that they are a normal couple.

In real life, if this situation existed (and I am sure that there are couples like them) John would push Suze more and more to satisfy her need to be abused and dominated and his desire is to show more and more control of the two of them. She would continue to lose respect for her husband which would manifest itself in their "normal" life. The husband would either self-destruct in self-hate or surrender his manhood totally. Eventually, there would be a life changing event that will destroy this marriage and family.

Once again you wrote a master tale of degradation and misery.

SleeplessinMD

loved your latest story. highly erotic. i'm one of those readers who read only stories i like. since i don't like most of the other catergories i don't waste my time reading them. hope you have plans to continue don't ask don't tell.6786

"I only read what I like." How do you know what you like until you read it? What if the guy, in the final paragraphs, turned into a stone killer and mutilated his wife and the guy she was fucking? Would you like it then? Other people would like it then, judging only from the comments. Contrary to misguided beliefs, not every story in "loving wives" is about cuckolds or cheating sluts or pussy husbands. Some stories involve, *gasp*, actual loving wives enjoying a monogamous relationship with their husband. I know that tears some of you pussy-men story lovers up, but that's the truth.

My only comment to Joatster is: please update your bio to read that you enjoy this type of fetish and clearly label each story with a warning about it being about a husband with no backbone or however you guys label them. It won't cut off all the bad comments, but it will cut down on them, I believe. Having not read the story due to the comments, I will rate this comment at a three.

I had skimmed this story and found in short order it was just another cuckold story so I left it alone. After reading “SleeplessinMd” comments I decided to comment, I have to say Sleepless nailed this story as just about all these cuckold/wimp stories are. They are BDSM which means Dominance like the other man and submissive like the husband. The wife is on her terms getting what ever she wants that puts her as the Dominate of the husband and the receiver of what ever she wants.

NONE of these fantasy stories represent Loving Wives but divergent behavior.

For a man to write it as if he was the other man imposing his will has a connotation of being inferior and wants to dominate to feel he is in control and can not be hurt by rejection. This is also the same as it carries a hatred of women by feeling they have been made somewhere in the past inferior as some who write Rape fantasies.

This is a Fetish of some women’s fantasies of total control and in some cases a way of humiliation of a husband not meeting the emotional needs of the wife. Most men writers characterize the wife as just pleasing the husband and then they portray the wife as insatiable sluts. There is a veiled disgust of the wife in that portrayal

Many men writers find these cuckold fantasy as a way of feeling it’s a loving act for the wife to conceal a submission of inadequacies. Normally the jerking off during the act or remembrance of it acts is a release of the inadequacies as if they had witnessed a loving act they made possible. None of this is like watching a stranger having sex, like in a porn movie, as it is a personal reaction to someone who supposedly the love of the voyeur husband, thus the inadequacy.

BDSM writers put it out there for all to see and don’t apologize or hide it as something else. Acknowledgement of this being submissive is a slap in the face of the men who portray this scenario so they put it into loving wives. This is a rejection of help.

It’s a fact this is not going away as it would have the writer admit he/she is experiencing conflicting feelings and that would require being demoralized. Loving Wives is always the outlet for these stories to justify or rationalize this behavior. BDSM/Dominate Submissive is only for those who understand their own emotional state.

For this writer, this is a consistent story line.

You make your own judgments of this fantasy of the writer.

Maybe for those who like the way this is going the wife could take her daughter with her to watch what mummy does to quote socabi50 "You can tell it's HOT from the insecure comments"

Just because someone dislikes where a story is going doesn't make them insecure if they dislike it enough to write something that should also be ok. Perhaps the husband could shoot John then as is usually the way he could die with a hard on and the wife could fuck him still to those who don't like that idea cause they like the wimp husband I throw socabi50's comment back at you "You can tell it's HOT from the insecure comments"

I loved this story. I like the way it ended and it leaves you a way to write a sequel about the coming meeting at the end of the three month period.

I think that by then the husband will be ready to join his wife as a submissive to her sexual master.

I think the reason this story is having problems is not because of the subject matter, but because it's in the wrong category. Definitely BDSM.

I enjoyed your writing style. I hate the storyline, just not my thing. It's like reading 6 easy steps to ruining an obviously happy marriage, at least until that fateful night which was not believable and pathetic. I finally jumped from the middle of page 3 to the end because it was not at all erotic anymore. Sorry, I've been married for 24 years and this isn't something that would remotely happen in our life. Now I hope you do keep writing and maybe you'll write something more to my taste, probably not but oh well.

My apologies writer but one of your supporters trys to speak for others rather than cite his own opinion.

Contrary to your statement Sleepless - Not every guy imagines himself as John the asshole who ruins lives at every availed opportunity nor does every woman in her right mind or fantasy want John the asshole to disrespect her, take her down, beat her up and away from her life and family members.

From your other comments seen here I thought you were somewhat rational and in basic a decent respected human being. Don't dash my perception of you in this shoddy way by impling that you know how we think or fantasize.

In other words Sleepless, champion those you wish but ride your own horse through the cowpaddies. Judging by the vast amount of negative comments on the male humiliation nature of this pathetic demeanment of humanity in general, you are a lonesome rider with a few disturbed but appreciative sicko's who need disgusting and absurd departures from humanities norm to get excitedly aroused. It is their right and yours to debase themselves if thats what they need but it is not your right to put us amongst the lowest cowpaddies with you.

Again writer - sorry to take some space here but someone needs to clarify the majority position on your work such as it is.

Let me start by putting my cards on the table. I loved the story, and scored it accordingly. I write similar stories, check my profile to see them, but be warned in advance, they are on a similar theme. I take personally some of the flames I get in the feedback, although I know I shouldn't.

I'm an intelligent, successful, mature, male human being, happy with my sexuality, happily married for 35 years to the only woman I've ever wanted to share my life with, happy to have shared her with others over the years. I've seen other men able to take her into places that I can't - not because I'm a wimp, but because I love and care for her too much to be as cruel to her as she sometimes needs. We remain happily married, content and secure with each other, but recognise each other's occassional needs to push our individual and mutual boundaries. Experiencing the kind of activities contained in this story isn't the major part of our relationship, it is a tiny part of a complex and rich and rewarding whole. Joatster writes about the conflicting emotions and thoughts of the so-called cuckold with a real understanding and sensitivity that I enjoyed and recognised.

I agree that this story is posted in the wrong category, which is one reason why he has received so much flak. I'm sure he will learn from the experience. If he's anything like me, it will have been a painful experience for him to read many of the negative comments on this board, and an experience that he probably won't want to repeat. I hope that it doesn't put him off writing some more - I for one will read it. I also hope that the comments don't put off other aspiring writers, who may be writing on the particular subjects that turn on the flamers here, who must come here to find something that appeals to them, or they are truly sad.

Charles Dickens, after he had attended a public hanging in London in the 1840's, wrote about the repulsive attraction, or attractive repulsion, that affected him, and the rest of the crowd watching the dreadful and terrifying, but compelling event. If you can be bothered to find what he wrote, it describes how I sometimes feel about sharing my wife, or passing control over her need for submission to some other man. It is this dichotomy between intense excitement and handing over or sharing that which we hold most dear and precious that fascinates us so-called willing cuckolds. These aren't fantasies, but real parts of real peoples' lives. They happen, and to deny their existence is like denying homosexuality, or sexuality.

Joatster, I thank you for taking the trouble to write your excellent story and to post it here, and I'm glad that I found it and read it. I hope that my little comments above go some way to redress the balance against the many unconstructive, unwarranted and unwelcome comments you have received.

Those of you who are responsible for those comments (the flames rather than the reasoned, constructive criticism from those of you who do not share any interest in this subject), those of you who simply flame, you should be ashamed of yourselves. What is the little secret in your life, the little poisonous nugget within you that makes it necessary for you to cast this stone?

To those of you for whom this subject matter is neither exciting nor interesting, as some very clever chap once said, I would die for your right to put your point of view. But my support for that freedom and privilege does not extend to supporting your abuse and intolerance. Please keep your comments dignified and if possible constructive, as many of you have.

Finally, and in case of any doubt, if you decide to read my stories, they involve happily married couples who let others into their sexual adventures, are submissive in these escapades, and who share the same conflicting emotions and feelings as Joatster's protagonists. If you still read them, don't flame or complain, you have been warned.

Contrary to some, I think that this was well categorized in the Loving Wives section. It could have been in the BDSM but it was the cuckolding that was the main point of the story. It was well written with good characterization, excellent dialog and very erotic.

I do have a major criticism on the story line - and this is meant constructively - it seems inherently improbable to me that Rich and Suze would come across John in the way they did, immediately after having, for the first time, discussed her having other men. The story would to me have worked much better and been much more believable if it had started in the hotel restaurant without the build up. But that criticism does not prevent me giving it the highest score possible.

NOW my comment on the negative comments. If you have criticisms of the way the story is written, or the believability of the narrative, share your criticisms and vote accordingly. If you just don't like the genre, if the idea of men liking being cuckolded horrifies you, don't read things that you know will upset you. If you must read things you hate, don't inflict your personal responses on the rest of us. Above all please don't vote because you are voting on the wrong basis.

I assume that these critics are just so unintelligent and unreflective that they cannot differentiate between fiction and reality. I guess they also comment to authors on crime fiction story lists accusing them of being murderers and telling whoever will listen that murder is wrong! duh!.

I have twice suggested to Literotica that they start a new category called "Cuckolds and Hot Wives" or something similar so that those who deliberately refuse to understand what "Loving Wives" mean can be in no doubt. My suggestion did not seem to have interested Literotica but I guess that the miserable wretched critics would just follow the writers and readers there, and deliberately inflict on the rest of us who do not share it, their view that their own constrained and limited understanding is the only possible acceptable view of human sexual responses and relationships.

I might add, for the benefit of those wowsers, that I am happily and faithfully married and have no desire for my wife to be with other men. But I enjoy good writing; I enjoy erotcism of all sorts. I don't discount loving wife stories because I dont practice that predeliction. I read crime fiction and I don't believe in murder either!

and it goes to the nature of this sordid self cuckolding one self by pimping out someone you supposedly love.

Does your and her family, children, your friends and neighbors know of your propensity to watch and or arrange your wife's different cocks for reasons difficult to explain???

I think not. If you were a sadistic child molester or liked to torture your self, wife, children or pets you probably wouldn't put a sign on your lawn proudly proclaiming your activities either. What you ascribe to for selfish humiliating male pleasure may excite you but it isn't anymore right or in tune with human convention and you know it by your own actions of not disclosing it.

That doesn't mean you can't do it. It just that you aren't very proud of being the way you are. The very title of this story says a lot doesn't it. Human convention is like a niggling conscience isn't it. Supplanting those who have selfishly dulled their own sense of conscience, respect and self respect to selfishly engage themelves and others in acts they themselves are not really proud of to those they know and wish to have high opinions felt from.

It is rather sad mate to read how you defend yourself as much to yourself but in doing so hope to bring others to your sorry state of mind. Misery does love company to justify their position don't they.

That is the primary reason many of us try to shortstop efforts to glorify something which you try to hide in your own life and neighborhood.

You seem intelligent and probably distain the physical degradation of demeaning pain that harsh BDSM proscribes don't you. If you do, you probably wouldn't proudly advertise it.

Yet you proscribe the mental degradation of self and others to achieve your selfish jaded erections secured by abnormal acts of a subhuman nature undenialably against normal human convention. A puzzling juxtaposition to try to justify isn't it.

So please don't preach or sell what you aren't openly proud of nor complain when we oppose your selfish hidden needs, just continue to quietly suffer the guilt of the few addicted to the absurd.

... the "Anonymous in USA" who posted the "Dear Rotter..." comment on this story, because (even though his comment is the usual unintelligent and almost unintelligible drivel from those who deliberately seek out stories like this in order to vent their own insecurities and obsessions) if I hadn't caught his comment in the Feedback Portal I might well not have found this story. I have to agree with the earlier commentator who said <<The men who, without even the nerve to identify themselves, who feign anger over these types of stories, while continuing to avidly read them, seem far more perverted to me than the man who wrote this wonderful story.>> A prime example of their sickness is the comment from “Anonymous in Redneck USA” who says <<Perhaps the husband could shoot John then as is usually the way he could die with a hard on and the wife could fuck him>> - so writing about adultery is wrong but writing about necrophilia is OK? These people seem unable to distinguish between fantasy and reality. I also notice that it’s only stories where a wife is involved with another man that seem to attract this vitriolic reaction - stories with a MFF involvement (eg the excellent “My Ex and Call Girl Meet”) don’t seem to offend them. The reaction of so many American males to any story where a woman takes control of her own sexual life as as hysterical as one might expect from an Iranian Ayatollah – except that the latter is less likely to be so hypocritical as to be perusing a site such as this in search of exactly that kind of story.

I have to agree with the most of the comments by “aboluterotter in uk” on this wonderful story. (And in doing so I know that this is likely to provoke another bout of anti-British vitriol from across the Atlantic)

This is simply one of the most literate, most exciting stories in this or any other genre I have read on this site – in particular the scene of John’s seduction of this couple in the hotel room is one of the hottest ever. Too many commentators get hung up about categories, but I believe that this firmly belongs in the “Loving Wives” category – Suze goes along with her husband’s initial desire to display her provocatively to other men because she loves him, as a result she gets into a situation where she discovers her own sexual needs, but she doesn’t run off and cuckold him behind his back, instead she first tries to see whether he can meet those needs. When he can’t she proposes an arrangement that he goes along with to try to spare his feelings, because she still loves him.

Please let us know what happens during and at the end of the 3 month agreement.

Thanks for a brilliant story.

Your title says it all really. “Your comment is purplexing (sic)”. I have no difficulty in believing you to be perplexed (the spelling is 'perplexed', even in my Random House College Dictionary, which is American). It goes on to say that to be perplexed is to be bewildered or puzzled; and your rambling, inarticulate, incomprehensible and mostly illiterate rant addressed to me is certainly both of those things, and evidence of how difficult you must find it to understand and make sense of the world around you. Have I lost you yet?

However confused you and your post may be, my main objection to it is that it relies throughout on a basic and erroneous assumption; that I am so ashamed of my particular brand of “sub-human nature” that I keep the truth of my “perversity” from friends and family. You are wrong! Or at least, you are not entirely right. I have no shame about my relationship – I am proud of it, and its longevity. However, I share my beliefs in the same way that I share my life, and my wife; sensitively and selectively. Some of my friends, neighbours and family know, others don’t. Whether they know or not depends not on whether they will support our choices, but on our judgement of whether they have the capacity to understand, without being upset and confused by them.

I didn’t “preach or sell” my values. To preach, for your elucidation, is to advocate or inculcate a religious or moral truth, right conduct, etc. in speech or writing. Where in my post did I advocate anything to anyone except tolerance? I certainly wasn’t trying to recruit anyone to my viewpoint regarding intra- or extra-marital sexual relationships as you imply? Neither did I “proscribe” anything (I’m absolutely sure that you meant to say prescribe, which has a diametrically opposed meaning, but let’s not dwell on that). Also I don’t "distain", although I do disdain intolerance and ignorance.

In order to make my earlier post intelligible to you (and I begin to believe from your obvious misunderstanding of it, and from the incomprehensibility of your response, that English may not be your first language), I have provided a précis below in words of (mostly) one syllable. What I actually said in my post was as follows:

I liked the tale.

I have had games like this with my wife and some men.

It has not hurt us.

These things are real for some of us.

He writes them well.

But he has had some flak. Which he does not deserve (sorry, two syllables)

There are some men that like this sort of thing. I am one of them.

To think not is to be an ass.

He should not have put this tale here.

Thank you for the tale any way. Please write some more. I will read it.

Those of you that gave him flak should not have done so.

Try to keep posts nice, even if you do not like the tale.

I write tales like this. Do not read them if you know you won’t like them.

I tried to resist a response, but couldn’t. I am weak!

Please note: Nothing in this post is meant to be anti-American. It is anti-intolerance. I am English, and proud of it; but there are parts of my culture that I am not proud of. Similarly, I recognise the great things about the USA and its citizens, but there are parts of it and some of them that I recognise as being less than great. Please don’t let this debate descend into a slanging match across the big pond.

You caught me rotter. Like you, I was a little emotional and didn't use spell check or the dictionary. So, lets both calm down and try again. Although, it does seem you and I understood one anothers purpose didn't we. Oh, no doubt, there will be punctuation errors as well this time.

So, your position is to advocate tolerance for the marital self cuckolding of yourself(husband) by encouraging your wife to take one or more other males at a time so you can watch her satisfy herself and her male lovers, which excites you beyond all other acts even your participatory sexual acts.

Well, to use the american dictionary (See Merriam-Webster OnLine) you are fond of quoting, tolerance has several meanings among which are: sympathy or indulgence for practices differing or conflicting with one's own - "the act of allowing something" / or the "allowable deviation from a standard".

Now you certainly didn't like my word "preaching" but by dictionary - (non-secular) - it means to "urge acceptance".

Now what part of your encouraging us to "accept the act" of "allowing that deviation from a standard" were you preaching to in asking us for tolerance of what 99.9% of rational respectful family minded married people here and in the U.K. would never even consider as acceptable?

Mr. Rotter, you are a very intelligent and educated person in my estimation, yet you fall prey to your own self serving self justified convictions.

An analogy would be that you are a lawful person as most of us are. That some years ago drunk driving was tolerated not only by society but by the judicial system here anyway. So drunks with more than 10 or more D. U. I.'s still owned a car and were still driving - the courts never stepped up to fully enforce the law thereby innocent people were being killed or maimed at regular interval - we tolerated without fully understanding the fallout beyond the drunk.

Another analogy. Parental abuse of spouses and children, physically and or sexually was tolerated for many years until we began to understand the longterm fallout effects upon the abused, their family and society.

While you have the right to advocate and urge tolerance so do drunk driving lawyers and family abuse lawyers in an attempt to empathize juries for sympathy in avoidable loss situations previously but ignorantly tolerable.

You will now say but its contained as only the participating are affected. Come on. Everyone who knows is affected including children under your roof and nearby. Do you know how to keep a secret? Don't tell anybody! But you have broken that secret haven't you.

It is interesting that you say that you have told only those that in your opinion have the capacity to understand without being upset or confused by your values(?). Well, they are yours. How many of these are participants in your proclivity? Those outside it are certainly to say to your face - gee thats interesting but unless later involved will certainly discuss the interesting secret with others. Is that quiet advertising? Or there another purpose? To address and quiet an inquiry? Golly, it sounds like the word is out isn't it - intended or not.

Do you think overly intelligent people become easily bored and seek sordid avenues to revive their yesterdays now difficult to reach sexual excitement levels? Do you think they feel above the dictum of normal human convention?

If you were an island, but you aren't are you. You live, work and function as a part of society even as an individual let alone as a family member with a marital contract that has been voided albeit consentually you have told us.

That reminds me of the story of the wife who said I don't really understand why but until I find somebody I can respect it's been quite a ride. Who knows what another really thinks eh.

To have the courage to stand up for what you feel is right doesn't make it right in others eyes.

I guess its now time for you to try to pick this apart so have at it.

Sorry writer but you have stirred the pot haven't you.

...."The test of courage comes when we are in the minority. The test of tolerance comes when we are in the majority".

Thank you Anonymous for your reasonably considered response. Although I still disagree with you, if your other posts had been as polite, literate and reasoned as this one, we wouldn't have crossed pens. You are, of course, entitled to your views. I hope that you allow, from a nation that prides freedom above all things, that I am equally entitled to mine.

I believe, naturally, that the analogies that you use are flawed. I cannot accept that it is equitable to compare drunk-driving and child abuse with mature adults' personal and private sexual preferences, as long, of course, that they do not harm or injure innocent bystanders. Our choices exclusively involve consensual relations between adult persons - no one comes to any harm without a choice, as in your examples.

Neither does being in the majority mean that you are right. To use your own (flawed) arguments, were the majority right when they turned a blind eye to the damage done by persistent drunk drivers, or to the plight and pleas of abused children? Of course not.

Let's take it further. Were the majority of white-skinned citizens in your country and mine right to enslave and abuse and trade generations of black-skinned people? Of course not.

I won't continue. We must agree to differ. All I ask is that you support your future objections to other peoples expressions of their views in the same reasoned, polite and tolerant way that you have used in your last response to me.

Thanks again for the debate. Thanks again to Joatster for his excellent story that triggered it.

Rotter

I skimmed through this story at a fairly good pace and found it to be quite readable. However, the subject matter is not to my taste. That being said, the comments section has proven to be far more interesting than the story itself.

Would it be possible to hear from your wife of 35 years to get her POV? It could be done as a comment or as a story written from her perspective. I'm sure that there would be a great deal of interest from those of us who spend a lot of their time in the Loving Wives section.

My first problem is with the reasoning of the wife on why she not only needs to do this, but will do it no matter what objections he voices.

Do you get a free pass for using BDSM? Aficionados seem to think that because they empathize with the wife, the behavior is just fine, must be acceptable because she needs something he can’t supply. Let’s apply this to other scenarios.

Women:

I’ve discovered I have this compulsion to be with a hairy man. No matter what you do, you’ll never get that hairy. I’m afraid if I don’t do this it will fester and destroy us. I won’t be able to deny anything he asks, even if I don’t do those things with you. I don’t want to do anything to destroy us, but I need hair!

I’ve discovered I have this compulsion for the biological anomaly to be with a man with 3 nipples. And so on.

I’ve discovered I have this compulsion to be with a man who has a superior vocabulary while having sex. Let’s face it, no matter how much you study, you’ll never be smart enough to do that. And so on.

I’ve discovered it rocks me when I’m with a man with an IQ over 140. I love your 125, but it isn’t the same. And so on.

I’ve discovered I have this compulsion to be with a bricklayer. Face it, you’re a lawyer. You could never change professions and it wouldn’t be the same. I’d always know you’re a lawyer trying to act like a bricklayer. And so on.

Pretty stupid, yes? But when it’s BDSM we defer as if it had some special exemption. It’s basically the exact same argument she’s using.

Men:

I need someone tall. You’ll never be able to grow 8 inches, even if you were willing to take the risk of using Human Growth Hormone. And so on.

I need a woman with big tits. Sure, you could get implants, but it wouldn’t be the same. At heart, you’re a women who is not over endowed. And so on.

I need a submissive woman and you’ll never be able to truly submit. And so on.

I need a woman who values nothing but me. No politics, education, family, all she thinks about is me. And so on.

You won’t give me (oral, anal, facials, take your pick). I need that. I’m afraid that missing it will fester and destroy us. So I’m going to have to find it elsewhere. No, it wouldn’t be the same if you started doing it. It wouldn’t be because that’s who you are, but just because you want to please me. And so on.

The last one is especially stupid because if only I can find something you won’t do, I have a blank check according to the reasoning of the wife in the story.

And for both genders, we have the compelling:

I’ve discovered that I have this compulsion to be with someone who is not you. You can never be not you. It’s amazingly erotic that the other person is not you. And there are so many people not you to choose from. I love only you, but I need not you. I’m convinced that this need will fester and destroy us if I don’t indulge it until it has run its course. I’m doing it for us. You have to agree that’s best.

Hey, what spouse could possibly fail to be moved by this stunning display of logic and sincerity?

Second problem is common to most of the Loving Wives: word versus deed. I love only you but I’ll fuck everybody else, even though I know it is emotionally devastating to you.

Imagine this dialog:

“I’m a very charitable person. It’s always on my mind.”

“But you gave 0 to charity for the last 10 years.”

“Yes, but charity consists not only of giving money but time and energy.”

“You never give any time or effort to others, let alone any charity.”

“Yes, but you know I believe in charity. It’s the most important thing!”

Would any of us have the slightest problem decoding that to find the 1st speaker’s real attitude toward charity, his protestations notwithstanding? So why do we for a moment give any credibility to the claims of love when the behavior contradicts them? Here it’s I love only you but I will periodically belong to somebody else. I know how much pain it causes you, but tough.

The third problem is the emotional blackmail. To me, someone who uses this kind of emotional blackmail proves beyond any doubt that their significant other is, in reality, their insignificant other.

I need to do this or I’ll (wind up) hate(ing) you and I’ll divorce you. And in the meantime, I’ll be miserable for no good reason. Plus, I’ll treat your reluctant acquiescence to coercion as enthusiastic support so nothing I do can possibly hurt you or us. What could be better?

Excerpts show how effectively she worked him over to get her way.

“But I love you and never want anything to hurt us. Let's just put last night behind us,” she says.

But follows later with,

“But there are things I've discovered I desire that I just can't imagine you doing. These things...I'm afraid that if I don't explore them somehow, they will build up. Unanswered, they will build up and eventually poison our lives together. I don't want that.. I haven't thought about anything but that night and us since that night three weeks ago. I feel something building in me that I have to respond to."

Let’s put it behind us except I’m thinking about nothing else and will find a way to make it happen no matter the cost (because breaking up later due to her unhappiness is worse than breaking up now due to his?).

Now she works the plan,

"I didn't say that I wanted US to see him."

My jaw dropped. "You mean you want to have an affair?"

"No. I don't want to do anything behind your back. I want your permission to explore this side of me. It is something I feel a strong compulsion to try. I know you care fore me and want me to be fulfilled. I'll share it with you in any way you want. If there were some way you could give me...some way it was within you to be less sweet and loving and more in control...then I wouldn't ask this of you. You can come watch, participate, stay home and I'll tell you all the details. Whatever makes you happy."

It’s for his own good because he wants her fulfilled. There is no way he can say no that she won’t take as a yes. He summarizes their argument thus,

That kicked off an argument that lasted for hours. We both reasoned, yelled, cried, and shouted. It didn't get us anywhere. I was firmly of the opinion that what had happened was a terrible mistake that should be spackled over, painted, and forgotten. Suze was positive that not investigating what she felt would cause her desires and interest to fester and would eventually ruin us. It didn't help when I said it would surely ruin us now by doing what she wanted or it might ruin us later if we didn't. Finally, we dropped it when checkout time approached.

So he offers to try to learn to give her what she needs because otherwise the situation will destroy them. But she has a loophole.

“No. I've been thinking a lot about this. Not only is it not in you to do it, I don't think it is within us for you to pretend or act that way. I don't think either of us can put ourselves out of the roles we have with each other. I couldn't ...let go... like that with you even if you could act that way convincingly. You are the love of my life, my life partner – not my..." she blushed and looked into her wineglass, "....master"

In fact, from that reasoning, even if he could learn to get fulfillment from being dominant, she won’t accept it from him. She has to have somebody else. Would it be okay if he had his own submissive? All I have to go on is her consummate selfishness and from that I would guess it would not be okay with her. Then, it will destroy us either way, might have some traction. But she would find an excuse why they wouldn’t be hurt by denying him what he “needed” the same way she needed her own thing.

But at least she is sensitive to his needs and fears.

She was quiet for a moment, then said, "Oh, you know. One of those things. I can tell you where if you want to ask."

That’s the functional equivalent of I’m going to fuck him stupid. Do whatever it takes to get over it because it’s happening.

All of which treatment leads us to an ending which I find particularly unsatisfying. I suspect the author meant his agreeing to undisputed dominance over them in the end to show that he had come on board and realized it was a good thing for both of them. I can’t accept that based on his prior behavior and everything he said about how unhappy it made him. UNLESS, her brutal psychological treatment of him, her emotional blackmail, her brow beating and her attitude that she will do it no matter what he says has made him such a victim that the only power he can squeeze out of the situation is to identify with his tormentors – Stockholm Syndrome. That I would find credible. But I really don’t find Stockholm Syndrome erotic. It’s treatable, but it’s not erotic.

We undertsand you are upset with the story line but I mean God get a fucking life. IT'S A FUCK STORY NOT THE BEST NOVEL OF THE CENTURY! It's meant to be read and enjoyed while you're jerking off or having fun. It's not to be broken down word for word and beaten to death over and over again. IT"S A FUCK STORY!

Wow, more flawed but imaginative analogies of misdirecton. You parady the shell game of the hidden pea but then mind games are your life.

You quote a famous U.S. Methodist clergyman of the early 1900's who also said " Good habits, which bring our lower passions and appetites under control, leave our natures free to explore the larger experiences of life. Too many of us divide and disipate our energies in debating actions which should be taken for granted."

That same man of the cloth's above quote sinks forevermore your twisted effort to use his name and background to justify tolerance of your selfish contorted interpretation of his words.

Your weak flawed rebuttal to my analogies was as self serving, twisted and obscuring. My point was that the majorities tolerances of the few were wrong to which you agreed (perplexing). Then to again support your position you offered the slave scenario which again and further cites inappropriate tolerance by the many of the few again. To which you agree again was wrong.

Look - we can't differ - we can't debate if you keep agreeing with me that you are as wrong as they were.

Your spin doctoring isn't even close to being believable under close scrutiny and thats less than what I expected of you but you do spell gooder than me.

To summarize, 99.9% of rational humanity support, honor and respect the contract of marriage as bring a legal contract that protects each spouse and family from outside interferance which undermines the singular commitment agreed by each spouse in care of the other and their family. Ignoring that agreement negatively affects themselves and others close or distant who become aware of it. Those that offend the lawfull agreed upon contract still understand it but choose selfishly to ignore it temporarily. There are repeat offenders but thats because they can't control their selfishness.

Then there are the black holes who believe that any rule or covenant of humanity doesn't pertain to them as they believe that they are above them regardless of the affect upon those close and dependant upon them. They are not the islands thay believe they are in reality. Brave as they may be ignorant, the law and order of society says they are wrong.

Formal tolerance is never given but most try to ignore them in hopes that they go away. In time and in numbers they must be addressed as were the other wrongs improperly tolerated at one time.

While we can differ but never agree I do have a suggestion for your consideration. A fantasy not acted upon or proudly boasted about is but a fantasy as offensive to most as it may be since it isn't real.

Your position and preaching has made this a reality not a fantasy which cannot be ignored or tolerated by any society known to civilized respectful rational people. The recommendation is that you shut up and hope that you and your family aren't too negatively affected in the balance of their life that you and they can't live with it.

Or divorce and do whatever you and her wish, but that would destroy the unique sordid pathetic male humiliation that you and her crave wouldn't it! Seeking attention just complicates doesn't it.

Quite a while between your writing. I loved this and can't wait for the next installment. I'm sure these characters have more for you to write about.

Went to your site and read all your earlier stuff - I think you've gotten better, or at least the emotional impact seems much higher.

Its nice to see you back. Love your stories, this is your best to date.

It would be very interesting to have the story told from her perspective.

I read the first three paragraphs. That told me the type of story. Nevertheless, I skipped to the end and read a few of the comments. The comments proved that my initial impression about the story was correct. Therefore, I knew I would hate the story which justified giving it the lowest rating.

prime thinking of a cuck. TK U MLJ LV NV

One of the most erotic stories I have ever read. Superbly written.

another cocksucking fag posting dumb cuck SHIT.

Then he used it to ruin John.

should never be allowed in public and mixed company, TK U MLJ LV NV

It should have been titled "Faggot wimp gives away empty headed wife" this was pathetic at best. You have suspend all reality and thought to think any part of this is good. Another dumb fuck husband shit story for the sewer of LW

"As I said, Suzanne is very attractive. I think she could be very pleasing for me, sexually. Have you ever experimented with power exchange, domination, anything a little kinky"

Joatstar.... pse change ur name to cuntstar or cuckstar....hope u rot in a cum filled hole somewhere

Yeah,please tell the cunt her marriage is over!!! A long,frusta king disgusting story! Show the tape to the daughter and then divorce the skanky cunt!

5 pages of cuck garbage.

Telling his wife the truth that he would have ordered John out of the room if he had not been so drunk and he had thought about throwing himself out of the window of the 22nd foor room while she was showering would have stopped her stupid fantasy as dead as her husband would have been.

16 years later, and this story remains in my top 5 list of all time. You, CindysBob, j267, and Tim Smith really struck a nerve in the dark side of my psyche with your tales back in the day. I wish you would return to writing--you were so good! Cheers!

This is a series, not a one off.

This couple is easy with your writing style to invest in them emotionally and physically with him and her remaining a normal married couple, and true lovers. Its interesting for me personally of my own questions, what happened in the bar with those business men with them knowing this wife was deliberately flashing them, im certain at least one of the business men would of approached the couple at the bar. In my mind there was a security there, it seems to me she is a faithful loving wife giving herself and her husband both a sexual excursion that solidifys perfectly their relationship with nether of them lacking. I also appreciated this was possible also because their was no humiliation between husband and wife.

I knew I didn't want to read further when she licked his asshole.

Some say she didn't humilate him, but she wouldn't give him the chance to learn how to be rough with her.

Didn't like it.