All Comments on 'Dialogue: The Eternal Problem'

by satyricon.21

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  • 28 Comments
X_BishopX_Bishopover 17 years ago
Thanks

This is one that I'll add to my personal resource library. Thanks

Read ya later

Bishop

AnonymousAnonymousover 17 years ago
Know it all?

'How to' is foolish unless you really have evidence that you can. To this reader the examples you wrote as good dialogue float like lead balloons.

AnonymousAnonymousover 17 years ago
Good advice

I don't exactly write erotica, but this advice can easily be applied to what I do write. I've actually been looking for tips to help improve my writing, and this will be very helpful.

dirtyjoe69dirtyjoe69over 17 years ago
Agree to disagree

A very interesting piece but I have to disagree on some points. First if the person respected the English language (not me by the way! too many fricken rules!) they will speak in full sentences with no contractions. I find it weird when you run into those people but there are those who don't "lazy" the language up.

Also when you speak of bedroom talk, everyone is different. My wife has looked up at me and said "I love the taste of your cum!" . She has also said "fuck me harder... make me your slut", and other written cliched sayings.

Still really liked your ideas though, nice job!

ohioohioover 17 years ago
don't forget this one

Speaking of things that no real person has ever said, but that you see in a lot of Literotica stories:

any sentence that uses the word "minx": as in, "why you little minx," he said in surprise.

I'm sure other readers will think of others....

ohio

AnonymousAnonymousover 17 years ago
Great advice

You make some terrific points, and I found this writing to be extremely helpful in that it has caused me to really pay attention to how people speak as opposed to what seems "correct" when writing.

The only point I could find any fault with is the indication that there are "things people never say." I have both heard and said some pretty off-the-wall things in the heat of the moment, so I do believe it's a matter of whether the author develops the character's personality appropriately beforehand. In other words, be sure that your character has been portrayed as sufficiently dominant and aggressive before you have him say "Beg for it you slut", or some other such line, but don't try to have these same words come from a timid virgin groom on his wedding night or it will ring false to the readers.

AnonymousAnonymousover 17 years ago
mAYBE NOT!

I think the first part could help a few new writers, but towards the end I was laughin'. People do sound a little 'robitic' when writing a sceen and the recorder idea was good.

Towards the end... get real. When two people are doin' the nasty, anything fuckin' goes.

Not bad, but you could use a bit of help too!

L.A.Wicker

108 stories and more cumin'.

AnonymousAnonymousover 17 years ago
Yep.

This with dialogue is really, very important. The other part of the text mostly describes what happens and well.. stuff like that. The dialogue can portray what happens as well but it also has a certain magical way of making the characters seem real. If you write it well enough, that is.

Only starting out as a writer, I can't tell if your advice are good or not but as a reader and an aspiring writer I know how important it all is.

And whether your advice are good or not, (and I think some of it is good, it's how I'm trying to write) the important thing is that Literotica writers start thinking about all this. Because a lot of writers really do suck at it and it ruins their stories.

You said something like, read the dialogue out loud to hear if it sounds believable: my most serious criticism to your "How to"-bit is that it's too long and too detailed. A writer should avoid any temptations of writing after a "recepy" and I think this is the only advice any writer needs on this subject: read the dialogue out loud to hear if it sounds believable.

Read the dialogue out loud to hear if it sounds believable!

Of course, that ain't 750 words.

AnonymousAnonymousover 17 years ago
This is porn, that's why!!!

The reason most writers archived on Literotica and a number of its competitors have such lousy dialogue is because they are writing porn, not erotica, not general literature, and not Shakespeare! Dialogue requires character development. Not much of that on Literotica! Do the characters have jobs, families and friends not involved in their sexual activities; hobbies or interests other than sex--and their particular sexual proclivities at that? No! To have dialogue, the characters have to have something to say to each other, which means they have to have something to say, period!

Dialogue can do several things. It can develop a particular character by revealing things about him/herself without narration. It can do the same about the relationship between characters. It can set the tone of the story or its setting, or any history of the characters or the place(s) they are (generally known as the backstory). It can develop both plot and theme. None of these are possible if the characters have no history, no lives, and no relationship except to fuck each other sensless.

A final note (yea!!!): Many stories on websites like Literotica (but definitely not limited to this one) are really BDSM stories with the various categories (loving wives, nonconsent/reluctance, mature, erotic couplings, etc.) merely describing who is the sub and who is the dom. Dialogue is not really necessary when both the theme and plot seems to be "suck my dick, bitch!" You don't need dialogue to be either a sadist or a masochist. Slavery, the Holocaust, prisons and numerous other situations in real life illustrate this all too well.

Selena_KittSelena_Kittover 17 years ago
Mentioned

You've been mentioned in the Author's Hangout New Story Reviews.

JamesSDJamesSDover 17 years ago
Some great points

I think you made some interesting points. There is a battle to be fought between clarity and realism in dialog. I do think dialog should be cleaned up relative to real life speaking.

You wrote:

""I love the taste of your cum", "Make me your slut", "Fuck my dirty shit-hole".

I guess I've just never met the right people. But if I find stuff like that masquerading as dialogue in a sex scene I sigh and look for something else."

Really? You aren't having sex with the right people. Well, maybe not the "shit-hole" one. It all depends on context, and I do think this is more of a personal preference thing. People do talk like this when having "dirty" sex.

AnonymousAnonymousover 17 years ago
"Batter down my virgin door!"

Aw, man! I was writing a dirty talk how-to but you beat me to it. Worse, your how-to is very well written and full of good advice. Curse you! *Shakes Fist*

AnonymousAnonymousover 17 years ago
ah.....the eternal problem of dialogue

All I'd like to say is that if all writers could capture dialogue as to "create believable people with motives and needs and reactions that will persuade the reader to suspend belief and think of them as real, if only for a moment ", we'd be swamped with excellent fiction. Welcome to the cyber world. For better or worse, everybody gets published. Miller and Hemingway would be lost in this cyberworld........

AnonymousAnonymousover 17 years ago
Caps-grunt versus articulate descriptor

Have to say, I do agree with most of what you wrote. However, as my subject line suggests, do have to quibble with you on the "ARRGGGHH!!!" v. "Wordless cry of ecstasy" argument.

When you ask which of the above stirred my imagination more, without any further context into which to place it, I'd honestly have to go with the former. It's more visceral, more elemental. Anyone who's had an orgasm can recall a time when they've been driven mindless like that. Does that mean it's better? Hell no!

Just as you said that dialogue needs to be shaped by the speaker's background and the current circumstances, so too do the descriptors need to be. For tender love scenes or stories driven by emotive contexts, that "wordless cry of ecstasy" is a perfect peak. However, every once in a while, it's just good to go straight at it, full-passion ahead. And, trust me, if the two involved are truly in love, the peak is so absolutely intense at those moments that "AAARRGGGHH!!" is all they can think of for the next few minutes.

Now, mind you, I do agree: using that as dialogue is silly. Comic-book, if you will. Thing is, every once in a while, even low art imitates life, so in those situations, comic-book descriptions ARE fitting. Just remember that, because such situations really are rare, the use of them should also be uncommon in your dialogue.

Jerry WalfellJerry Walfellover 17 years ago
Too true!

Your observations about real speech v. lame invented speech are excellent. Can't say the same about many of your suggested alternatives, unfortunately. Still, this should be a must-read for anyone who wants to post on Literotica.

BOSTONFICTIONWRITERBOSTONFICTIONWRITERover 16 years ago
Thanks for the help

Interestingly helpful how to story. There are some points that I may take away with me. Thanks for the help.

AnschulAnschulabout 16 years ago
A Dialog Freak

Satyr, I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your comments. As one who believes he is a proponent of dialog, I agree with most of what you say. Like an anonymous comment earlier, I agree that there is a place for the long "caps groan." I use them in my work, but then my approach is to try to be a fly on the wall, and if I close my eyes, I hear the sounds. I think the sounds of sex are intoxicating, if presented realistically, if they are true to the characters. Like you said, none of these rules are hard and fast, and I urge new writers to take these suggestions to heart. Decide if you are writing lit or porn. If it is porn, fine, and call it what it is. I choose to see this site as lit, and as such, I dump out when a piece turns to porn. I can find that in the adult bookstores. As far as I can tell, this site is Literotica, not Pornerotica. There is room for both. There are great writers here. Look for them. Read them. Vote for them. It took me a long time to find Literotica. Porn I can find anywhere.

kittenlovekittenloveover 14 years ago
thank you

I'm always kinda nervous about the dialouge in Erotica. I try, but try to avoid being lamely over chatty with it. lol. I think this'll help me quite a bit. :D.

PrincessErinPrincessErinover 14 years ago
Thank You

I was directed to read this article to improve my dialogue. Very helpful.

AnonymousAnonymousover 14 years ago
You do not get the point

Although i may agree with the theory you present, most of the writers here are sharing THEIR fantasies. They do not want (or don't as you would say) to become the next Nobel prize, else they would not do erotica and specially taboo themes like incest or sex with aliens or between races.

I believe even if i can't be sure that most of the stories are not true but most of the writers have jerked off to them, so they share the experience of what's hot for them, with the words they would say or like it to be said to them. Therefore it is of an extreme arrogance to opinate in what the content of dialogue should be. Let people share their fantasies at their like.

everyotherminuteeveryotherminuteover 13 years ago
He said, She said - blah blah blah

I have just started writing my first third person story and getting the dialogue right is a toughie. The whole 'She said, He said' thing really struck me as a challenge but I worked out a style to suit the characters Your piece made me laugh out loud as I recalled how many times I scrubbed out line line after line of crap discourse! A useful article. Thanks.

AlmostAliceAlmostAliceover 13 years ago
Helpful

This has been quite helpful, I 'll definitely keep these points in mind when writing.

AnonymousAnonymousover 13 years ago

How I wish I could send this to some writers. The dialog chiche's are the worst, and most annyoing. If I have to read one more sotry about a man's "spunk" I will scream. No one is expecting brilliance on here (though I Have found stories that are amazing) but those kinds of stories make me roll my eyes and search for better.

PrincessJezebelPrincessJezebelabout 13 years ago
I like the way you write!

I enjoyed your article very much. I have been writing professionally for 30 years, mainly technical and promotional. I have a degree in Journalism with an English minor. There--that's my street cred. I'm not just some idiot who wants to write jerk-off stories. (Forgive me in advance for sounding like a stuffy old English teacher. I figured if I was gonna criticize other people's writing, I damn well better have mine correct.)

First, as a reader, I was initially drawn to Literotica because of that "Lit" part before the erotica. I was under the impression that these stories were INTENDED to have plots and character development and silly shit like that. All of the "Anonymous" commenters who said otherwise are idiots who can't write real erotica.

Second, as a reader, I, like you, use the "back" arrow a lot. There have been times when I really liked the story idea but just couldn't cope any longer with the HORRIBLE writing. I read one piece in which the author changed tense three times in one SENTENCE!

Now, having begun to submit as a writer, I think most of your advice is spot-on. I will both agree and disagree with one commenter who said that anyone who cares about the English language speaks in grammatically correct complete sentences. I guess it really does depend on the circles you run in. "Ain't nobody I know who talks like that shit!"

BUT, the rest of the story SHOULD be grammatically correct. That is called good writing, which many people on this site wouldn't recognize if someone whapped their pee-pee with it! Yes, I know I am more anal-retentive about this than many people, but DAMN people, don't you even know where spell-check is?

Finally, I don't write erotica in the same style as I've written the above. There's a gaping gorge between fiction and instructional material, but you found a way to put some humor and personality into your how-to. That's actually the way I write fiction (or at least try to). The funniest thing in the comments to your article is that many of the commenters couldn't even write correctly in a 6-line comment! And they didn't even have the balls to identify themselves. Sad...

Thanks for the help and the laughs!

WoodsLord_3540WoodsLord_3540almost 11 years ago
Realistic?

Read and be inspired by John Irving. He is wonderful when it comes to realistic dialogue. I try to pattern myself after him.

midknightvengeancemidknightvengeancealmost 11 years ago
thank you

That was most helpfull. I will definatelly use that when I attempt more writing.

AnonymousAnonymousalmost 9 years ago
Read it out loud

I, couldn't agree more, but wait five or six days. You will probably give up writing. Well, for a week or two.

erosgodscribeerosgodscribeover 7 years ago
Best full-picture advice I've yet seen

Thanks for this post. I've found a few helpful posts as I ready my first submission, but this one is by far the most thorough. You've done a great job in terms of scope and what I believe to be the most common pitfalls when trying to keep the reader engaged. Made a few adjustments to my story as a result, thanks! I'll be posting within a week, and I'd appreciate any feedback once I do.

Anonymous
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