All Comments on 'How To Break the Literotica Toplist'

not all together pc-your advice but VERY true!

You've got me blushing. Very interesting concepts and ideas.

She's nailed it, at least in the categories I read and have my stories in. And how indomitable she must be: think how much REALLY bad writing she had to have struggled through in order to do the necessary research for this piece.

Very informative piece with lots of common sensical things that most of us already know and some other secret tidbits to help those who feel it is important to break the toplist. Yet, it still needed to be written and read.

My only thought is it seems odd that you just joined 3 weeks ago and already have a firm grasp of every category. Being from Boston, of course, I'm suspicious that, as a writer, you are not so new to Literotica after all.

Thanks for the story.

This is by far the most thorough explanation of what type of stories end up in all each category. Well done.

A well written reference for anyone looking to write a popular story on this site. I do have to take exception with a couple of categories though. As far as interracial stories go the black man/white woman scenarios rarely receive the higher marks today regardless of how well they are written. Some of the older stories are still rated highly as they were well written and there was not the strong influence of racists that are currently on this site. In fact the Karen Kay story you chose as an example of good interracial writing only received one high mark out of three parts.

Additionally the Loving Wives section is a war zone. It's the cuckoldists vs the revenge freaks. The revenge freaks either far outnumber the cuckoldists or just take this thing way too seriously because their stories are treated with far more civility than the cuckold stories. As with the interracial section it doesn't matter how well or poorly the story is written, if the wife or girlfriend gets it in the end you've got a winner ratings wise.

the answer to the FAQ "what catagory should my story be in? The should be required reading for anyone who is unsure. Maybe even linked to in the FAQ section. Many thanks for a well written, informative explanation of the Literotica catogories.

I might quibble on the examples but well done overall.

A clarification on the number in each category. There are 75 on the first page, and a total of 500 on each toplist. Categories such as Letters and Transcripts have a smaller number (288 - and the last one has a score of 2.61) and are almost a lock to make ... just write something).

Regards, Jack

A very well thought out piece. A must read for everyone. Even non-authors. Piscal and Sleezbutt give it two thumbs up. Bravo

Agree with everything except you were missing some in the Non Consent/Reluctance. <p> I see two common things that occur in this category as well. It seems people want more of the rape victim enjoy it at the end. And stories about only reluctance get bashed by people expecting non consent, I have seen it elsewhere on stories I thought that were excellently written.

how I post my story so it shows up as having been written by DanielleKitten. Other than that, I think I got it. Thanks. Very entertaining ride through the categories here on Lit.

Do you have some source that tells you, for example, that most readers in the "Lesbian" category are male? It seems that this thesis is comprised of a lot of personal observations, and a bit of bullshit... not that that's a bad thing. Factual? If you look at top lists for votes and views of all stories, it becomes apparent which categories are the most read as well as which receive the highest scores. The lowest rated story in the top 500 scores is a 4.89 which is .7 higher than the top story in Loving Wives. If a story had to have 150 votes, or more, to make the top list, results would be far different. To reach a top list, write something that your ten buddies will vote a 5, and no one else will read. You can also break a story into many chapters. By the time chapter 10 comes up, only the most loyal of readers are still reading it and will vote a 5. As I write this, the ninth highest rated story, by voting, has 20 votes and is chapter 16. Perhaps votes on chapters should be added up and averaged out to give the story a score? Many "stories" on top lists, are in fact chapters, and not whole stories, which may be a contradiction? This was an interesting effort. Thanks.

While I did find some very thoughtful and helpful advice in the piece I couldn’t quite let myself agree with all of it. I will indeed use what I have learned here to categorize my next posting properly. Not as much in search of the elusive red (H) but to direct my effort toward an audience that might help me improve my skills with helpful feedback. Toplist? Been there, done that, at least briefly. However, becoming a better storyteller means more than just holding onto a top spot for a few short months. With improved ability, the accolades will follow and then the toplists will be mine!!!! Ha ha ha……

Loved the comment from your profile as well.

"I'm ageless, timeless, grace and fineness... I'm beauty and elegance..." Yeah, me too!!!!

It was interesting and for the most part dead on, however, I think you're really selling the lesbian category and its readers short.

In general, pretty good observation. you should mention something about originality. i dont want to read same o plot just different names. its like eating roast beef for breakfast lunch snacks and dinner every freaking day.

Or is this a case of "THEM THAT CAN-DO" and "THEM THAT CAN'T TEACH" or in this case "WRITE HOW TO"?

Thanks for the mentions! Great effort, good luck!

Selena

I suppose my only real critique of your analysis is that it is slightly inaccurate when it comes to the subject of interracial love. Yes, a good portion of the stories are about super hung black men and petite white women, but if you look at the interracial top list closely, many of the stories that are right at the top, the best of the best if you will, are about black women and white men. I think overlooking this important point puts your readers at disadvantage. If you really are trying to advise them on how to break into the toplists, advise them on how to make it to the top.

Thanks. I've wondered what some of the catagories are supposed to be about (especially Loving Wives) I won't necessarily follow your advice, but I will be able to place stories properly if I decide to break out of my three area comfort zone (BDSM, Sci-fi, mind control). I'm more interested in writing what I like than in being popular (though I do have fans). One thing I'm curious about, if someone knows, is it really possible to search for stories based on those 'story tags' that we writers fill out when we submit, or possibly even view the tags on a story? I had one commenter to a story complain, justifiably, that he was disappointed by the quantity of lesbian sex in my BDSM story (I love reading and writing about lesbian sex), and that it should have been listed as two catagories. If he had been able to see the tags, he would have seen that notation.

You wrote a very comprehensive and good how-to. As a reader, I appreciated it in order to help me navigate my way more easily. The only comment I would want to make is about the length of the story (things like grammar and originality have already been commented on). I have noticed from comments given, that most people are annoyed by very short stories, claiming they don't give enough details. However, I know that as a reader, I am more likely to pass over a story that comes in at 5 or more pages. So, obviously, I don't vote these stories as a 5, since I don't read them. I've noticed that the most popular stories come in from 2-4 pages. If you have more pages than that, break up the submissions.

I confess -- I'm one of the majority looking for mother-son incest stories. Would it be at all possible to identify which kind of story it is at the title bar? Maybe with the mF, mf, Mf, Mm, etc. code that other sites use.

My personal selection is to stop reading at the third typo. In business correspondence, and most of all on a CV/Resume, one typo excludes. This is particularly troublesome in the title or the one-line description. Thank you for a most useful submission. I am enjoying reading the examples you give, though I do not always agree.

I'm not sure I aim to be in a top list, but this how-to still offered plenty of food for thought. It's an especially interesting read for those of us in the Survivor contest. Clearly you put a lot of time & trouble into writing this piece, plus digging up examples & writing in the links. Thanks, author.

Well written with details that answer questions readers as well as writers might have. One comment as a 'reader in multiple categories'...PROOFREAD please! Nothing spoils the

"flow" like bad grammar and "misteaks" in spelling! (Truly a

dictonary or 'Spell check' can be a writer's friend.) From

a grateful reader...Thank you!!

I just want to take the time to thank you very much for a very informative and for me very much needed how to story.

For Interracial stories, you did not mention White Male and Oriental Female.... the only ones I read.

First-rate job of giving a concise and informative break-down of the in's and out's (so to speak) of the various Lit categories. Should become a How-To standard.

Very well written, very easy to read. I loved that you put in examples of what you thought were good for the categories. While you may not have hit the nail exactly on the head, I don't think you hit your thumb. :D As someone else mentioned, I don't think you are new to Lit. I'm looking forward to reading your stories. Good luck in the contest, and in garnering future popularity. ~Minx

You must have spent ages analysing the top lists to come up with so much detail! It was very informative - thanks and good luck in the contest. :)

I appreciated the mention in the fetish section, but apart from that, this is a useful overview of what is popular in each category.

I wish more writers would appreciate that the Top Lists show what is popular. A writer might disagree with the public's votes but popularity wins over literary erudition. Writing consistently popular stories is as hard, or even harder than, writing deep literary ones.

and I know it took a lot of research and analysis to write. I do have two quibbles. The top lists, for the larger categories, consist of six pages, each one with 75 entries, and one page of 50 entries, for a total of 500. Some of the smaller categories don't even have 500 entries with at least ten votes, and those toplists may have only about 300 entries.

I think most NC/R stories involve a woman (usually) being blackmailed or otherwise pressured into sex, but enjoying it so much she becomes a regular partner of the other person. It may not be realistic, but it's common.

...I'm not exactly sure when you wrote this, probably years ago, but times have changed. The INTERRACIAL section is dominated by BF/WM stories that are centered on love after conflicts. The White Male/Oriental Female seems to do rather good as well. The Black Male/White Female stories that do become popular do not remain in the toplists unless the writer is VERY talented and fleshes it out OR it is a genuine romance story with great sex.

Thanks for the mention =) I don't know how I missed this, but I just came across it during a search. There's some handy information in here. Again, thanks for the mention and the kind words for Danica.

The title pretty much says it all. I'm saving this one as a favorite, I'll be re-reading this again.

This guide is certainly helpful for the new writer. I would have mentioned a couple of extra things though.

Firstly, that unrealistic and/or non-consensual depictions of BDSM activities are rarely rated highly (fortunately). You described very nicely which stories are liked, And I applaud that.

Lastly in the Non-consensual/Reluctance category, you skipped the second part of the category. There are quite a few Reluctance stories in the top list. These are stories dealing with a protagonist who reluctantly complies with requests or demands, but who consents, often audibly, to his or her 'trials'.

Anyway, this was a great read. It's excellent to have good people helping out. :-)

i do agree with u on certain parts , its quite realistic and i ve been looking for such writing since long time and u being a women have given a very different perspective , on many things , this writing would be useful ...

Why write a section on lesbians when you clearly don't know jack shit about it.

the ones you misjudged I'm betting you don't read your self... like interracial... the best and highest ratings is black female and white male not the old cliché big black man and small white woman.. just check the top 5 .. Im not sure when you wrote this analysis but times have changed.... not that people are getting wiry of the leggy blond blue eyed fantasy.. but thats not as risky in the interracial category... and men don't really want to read about the untrue stereotype that all black men are huge.. of the others i read i would say your on the money.

Thanks for a detailed description of "how to" information. This is a well thought out essay.

congratulations,

Lush

I do not agree with your opinion. Interacial love is more then just Black men and White women. If your going to write about each section of the site, atleast actually read some of the Toplist for each category... you might be surprised at what you read

You need to consider that it's been 2 years since this article was written and people's tastes change: what used to be popular then might not be as popular anymore.

It's sorta sad that lesbian stories about women into women are evaluated by how they fit men's fantasies about it, not the reality of of sapphic romance and sex.

You're dead-on about fetish stories. It helps to write a fetish you're really into and from that springs the passion in describing every detail.

If folks aren't into your kink, they're probably not going to read your story unless you make it about people they care about having so much fun it nudges them past the "ick" factor and get into it without apologies.

My favorite stories are about older women and younger men having a ball together, mostly mother/son or aunt/nephew, though a well-written mature story about a young dude and a seasoned lady having a ball done well is very sweet indeed. How well you serve that kink without it looking like a fetish laundry list is tough to describe in detail.

A big turn-off, no matter what the category, is giving sizes, esp outlandish sizes to various body parts. A woman doesn't need to have 46EEE breasts to be worthy of love. Same for a dude having a 12" penis that could be used to pound roofing nails.

Don't get me wrong, there's size queens and kings out there slavering at those details, but it's Lego-sex. (There's a story for ya- Specs for a Love Machine!) Develop a descriptive vocabulary to give folks a taste of the goodies on offer. Breasts can be pendulous, pert, pear-shaped, dewy, milky, freckled, floppy, or scarred, for example. A hell of lot more evocative than quoting a bra-size, wouldn't you agree?

I know it's Lit and we're writing stroke stories, but writing stories with people in love or trying to make a connection in an often indifferent and harsh world, that's the difference between lightning bolt and lightning bug as far as how much impact it has on me.

Glad this is just your opinion. Would agree/disagree with a number of things, especially based on review of the top list categories. Would really suggest rewriting of Interracial which really stands out as being pretty incorrect.

I'm challenging myself to submit to every Lit category, so this essay was an invaluable resource for me. The text was thoroughly engaging and your advice seems well researched and sound. I will definitely keep your formulas in mind as I write, although as an author, I will of course have to break some of the rules. Thanks so much for posting!

that the categories can be broken down to a formula. Of course it makes it all the more fun to ignore the formula and do something truly odd...

jth : )

Thanks for this wonderful story. I think another thing is to not take writing too seriously. So many people are on and about Literotica who are just naysaying jerks. They read about wifes who cheat and the venom comes out. If you tie someone up, you are a pervert. They don't have a clue about what is erotic. I for one don't score stories I hate. I ignore them. But good ones, I vote. This one gets a vote.

Another great way to break into the top list apparently is through the use of 2 dimensional characters, a story that is all or mostly exposition and lots of mechanical fucking.

Try to avoid dialogue. If you absolutely must have dialogue make sure it it is dull and uninteresting. Avoid humorous or snarky dialogue at all costs.

It also helps if you choose the same type of boring plot and action that everyone also uses.

... and found it quite helpful. Saving to favorites for future reference.

"Still, the most popular stories in interracial remain black men and white women..." Not true. The most popular interracial are black women and non-black men. Check the Interracial Love Hall of Fame list for verification, focus on the top 11 stories of all time.

Wrong on the lesbian sex category, the male oriented fics tend to do that worst, while the female oriented with chapters of romance and build-up are what get the 'H' symbol. Really even a quick stroll through of the most popular fics makes this obvious.

I'm an aspiring novellist, and I write erotica as practise for *real* (please don't take offense, anyone, you know what I mean) writing. I've been trying for ages to write a successful story, and I haven't been able to figure out how. Thank you, very much, this guide is brilliant. One thing you forgot to mention, though, is editing. I cannot tell you how many brilliant stories have been ruined for me because of poor grammar or punctuation, and I know I'm not alone in this. Four stars and favourited (I only give five stars to stories, or I'd have given it five)!

But, as one of those who primarily read the Incest/Taboo section, I have to disagree with the statement that readers want the characters to call each other "Bro" and "Sis." In all my life, I can't recall ever hearing that. While I recognize that we're talking fantasy here, the rule about the best lies being almost true likewise applies. And, while "Daddy" is commonly used (in my own experience and observations) by sons and daughters when referring to the father, "Mommy" makes us think of young children who still think the Stork delivered them. Just my own opinion, of course.

Not a bad article but as a suggestion in the future please choose stories that are finished to use as examples.

I'm sure there are several good choices without using unfinished ones.

Although some quibbles with a few specifics of the article, overall it's a very good breakdown of the popular writing in each category. To me, this knowledge serves two purposes. One, if you aren't already familiar with it, you now know what category will appeal to you most to read; I'm sure everybody has an idea, but there may be a category or two that you didn't know you'd find appealing. More importantly, it should help you, as a writer, to decide which is most appropriate for a story that could fall under multiple categories.

Damn it. I hate that.

I read this posting awhile back and decided to take your advice. Although I have written several generally well-received incest stories, I decided to prepare one in which love between the mother and son were the driving force in the story. It has not been my highest rated entry, although when I last visited it had a not shabby 4.58, but the number of views and positive comments after 36 hours is much higher than normal. Starting with the third chapter I will add some additional characters. While they will also be motivated by love, they will take us beyond a one man - one woman arrangement. It will be interesting to see how that will effect the response. Just wanted to thank you for the observation.

What I found most helpful about this, well-written, concise article is that you took the time to give examples.

With a plethora of good reading on Literotica in a rainbow of flavors to satisfy all tastes, it's extremely difficult to gain readership.

Thanks for taking the time to help authors who are new to the site.

The title says it all. New writer, and needed a tour guide of sorts.

Are you still an active member of the Literotica community? Because I have a few questions I would love to ask you!!

You mentioned two stories by DanielleKitten in your writing. I can't find either on Literotica. Am I looking in the wrong place?

I’m new to writing and had my story kicked back for not being in the correct category, so yes, this helps tremendously. Not to mention how to search just for my own reading enjoyment. Thank you.

This is a great summary of categories and great advice for writers. You summed it up perfectly.

Helpful advice.

This was very good advice.

Your observations and/or research makes good sense and allows me to understand the categories better around this site. I'm not sure if I'm interested in producing top listed stories but simply getting them out there to be read by fellow enthusiasts would satisfy me. Once again, thanks fir sharing.

A very helpful article. It made me realise my latest story was not broadly enough tagged. How can I change the tags or add to them?

Help enormously appreciated.

Wendy

One small correction: Cuckoldry performs better in the "fetish" section rather than "Loving Wives". Now, I personally believe it belongs in the latter, but it is almost guaranteed to be showered with vitriol in that case. So, fetish it is then.

Some good generic advice on how to write popular stories, with a few minor exceptions. While the majority of Interracial stories consist of black male/white female couplings, many of the highest ratings in this category are for stories with black female/white male pairings.

My two bit analysis of this discrepancy concludes that most of the black male/white female sex are less about the relationship and more about the supposedly taboo sex with a big, black, cock (often with heavy cuckold themes). The black female/white male stories seem to be more story and character driven, resulting in appropriately higher scoring.

So I would amend the advice for Interracial scoring success further to suggest that if you are seeking readership and favorites, go ahead and write your best BBC transforms white woman story for the one handed keyboard crowd. If you want to really score with the top of the category, write a real story with characters that are believable and it will find its own place. I think the romantic tales of black women with white men often score higher because they are written better, for a different audience. If you reversed the couples races, while still having an engaging story, it would likely do just as well.

Tink4Fairy, Thank you.

I enjoyed and appreciate the the time and effort you put into this very interesting essay. You made clear in the beginning of the piece that these are your impressions, not a statistical analysis. Please do not let the nit pickers disturb you.

I am curious about data that might exist concerning the demographics of the audience. Do you or any of the readers have any data? Are there a significant number of horny women who share our fantasies?

[I am fantasizing about all the beautiful women who will melt when they read my "If I ever get "a-round-to-it'" first story and demand MORE!]

Thanks again to you, and the other Authors who generously share their fantasies.

-JGC

This was a fascinating read. I've been here for years reading a just my usual categories but I'm amazed at your insight across the board. Thanks!

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I am a new writer - I'm now writing my 3rd story in a series, and it's a very exciting and nerve-wracking experience. I was absolutely thrilled to see the 'Your story has been published' message. I've written things like letters and essays in the past, enjoying it immensely, and always thought I might like to be a writer but never had much faith in my imagination. Erotica seems easier for me for now because the stories don't have to be long, or the plots convoluted. I am hoping to improve my writing skills but I think that the scores and feedback I receive are going to have a lot to do with how often I practice 'the craft'. Thank you for this bit of insight because I know I'll be referring back to it often. I appreciate every minute you took to write (and edit) it.

Thank you for this overview of categories. It helps me a great deal to understand some of the things I have been reading in the forums. Your clarifications are the best I have come across in exploring Literotica.com.

I am working on a 'How to Improve Writing' article that is nearly finished. I would like to include a reference to your work within that missive. I believe it certainly would help new writers to understand the genre categories knowing them from your perspective.

Thanks for a great article.

Wonderful and thank you. I have been writing on the site for a little while now and this was informative and insightful. Again thank you.

This is a good essay. Still leaves me feeling often there are no good boxes if you write stories that cross the box boundaries, because you will offend or just simply bore readers with half your story if they only came to it for one aspect or another. I personally like to write femdom. So BDSM would seem the natural place. Then again many femdom lovers typically have quite a few powerful fetishes--worshiping or being dominated by a woman's feet is a classic example. So maybe fetish is a natural category too. But what about chastity? Big for many femdom lovers too. Is it a D/s thing, hence BDSM? Or a fetish? Cuckoldry has its own category. But I do not see much discussion about chastity out there.

Then there is another aspect. Femdom seems most natural to me when the woman is in a position to sexually tease, and yet has plenty social backing to deny. There are several ways to get there. (1) One is she is married to a man other than her malesub suitor. That would seem to me a reverse "loving wives" situation. That is, the man interested in another man's wife isn't always an alpha bull. It can be a hopeless beta chastity slave. (2) Another way to get there is incest of course. Since the relationship is taboo, the woman has plenty authority to deny. Hence you are in an "incest" story. (3) The woman is rich/white/western, the man is the opposite in one or more of these. Because, lets cut the bs, many still feel a rich/white/western woman doesn't have to stoop to having a sexual relationship with a man that is not. There aren't categories for rich/poor or western/non-western, but there is the interracial category for white/non-white.

So the question remains, how do you classify a story that mixes elements like that while minimizing the potential fans you may not reach, and minimizing the potential haters that you do? Would love to hear from anybody with thoughts on this.

Perhaps somewhat dated, published in 2007, I would like to see an update of some sort to confirm currency of information. Although, already quite long, I would like some insight about how the author arrived at their conclusions. TheRedChamber did an analysis of female names on Literotica and gives great insight into his methodology. (https://www.literotica.com/s/on-female-names-in-lit-stories?page=2)

Did the author of this story read the top 10 in each category and draw conclusions? (or perhaps a random 10 in the toplists in each category) Was it a group effort? How were conclusions drawn and validated.

This is not a criticism! The article is well written, concise and presents its conclusions well. Clearly, this article took much effort to compile. Disappointed we have not heard more from this author.