All Comments on '9 Steps to Sexier Stories'

by electric1

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  • 41 Comments
tinman461tinman461over 12 years ago

THANK YOU

YOU have provided Constructive Criticism that was long overdue

BobNbobbiBobNbobbiover 12 years ago
You missed a lot of my points

You've got an opinion of one, electric, but there are others that are just as valid. I am not one of those guys who likes the one page fuck 'em and move on to the next fast type of story. I want to know the why of the situation and also the what happened when the why was carried out. If there are three people involved I would like a little bit of understanding how the event, or events and process, impacted everyone. I know there are many readers here on Literotica who prefer the one page story; I like stories three or even ten compared to one page.

RehnquistRehnquistover 12 years ago
Points 8 and 9 should be mandatory reading

Once I read an article on how to write by the incomparable Elmore Leonard. Point No. 1? Never, under any circumstance, start a story with the goddamned weather! "It was a dark and gloomy night." BARF!!!

One of his best points, though, was your Point No. 8: Just use "said." Sure, other words can be used, but they should only be used sparingly. Moreover, avoid using anything like that altogether if you can possibly avoid it. Thus,

"Nice night," Jim said.

"I guess, if you like the freezing tundra," Sandra said.

"It's not bad."

"It is if you're from Florida."

Jim smiled. "That's where you're from?"'

et cetera and so on. See? It's not difficult to figure out who's saying what without any descriptor whatsoever.

And your Point No. 9? I can't count the times I've read stories that start with "Hi. I'm Jim. I suppose I'm not a bad looking fella at 6'1", around 180 pounds, with a full head of thick hair. Most women find me attractive."

ARGHHH!

You're absolutely right: If you're going to describe your characters at all, come up with something more than a 1-paragraph wanted poster drafted by the FBI.

Really a well-written, helpful article for ALL writers who want to improve, not just those who want to write hot porn stories.

AnonymousAnonymousover 12 years ago
Sex

It's in the mind, the scenario, the visual, not in the act.

The descriptive, the surroundings, the emotions, that is what paints a picture in the mind of the reader.

The act is simply the completion of all that leads up to it.

I say you are dead wrong, your way is boring.

AnonymousAnonymousover 12 years ago
smart tips

Really smart tips. Definitely useful guidance. Thanks buddy!

jasperscribblerjasperscribblerover 12 years ago
Good stuff

I would amend the "said" rule by reference to a general rule about breaking rules: Ignore the rules when it advances the story. "He proclaimed" is lame, but "he shouted" or "she whispered" works because the volume is part of the action.

sleeplessgurlsleeplessgurlover 12 years ago
Great except for your first two points...

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you wrote except points number 1 & 2.   What you refer to as "irrelevant" details are relevant to me and to my readers.

While I do enjoy a good stroke story occasionally, most of the time I prefer to know about the characters, what makes them tick, why they are who they are, and why they are attracted to each other.  The character development and the building of the relationship between the characters is as important to the story as the actual sex.  Therefore the characters' back-story is relevant to me, even if those details are not specifically about sex. Furthermore, the details about their sexual past are also an important part of what makes them who they are.  All this back-story provides well rounded three-dimensional characters the reader can identify with and care about, not just cardboard cutouts with a dick or a pussy and some tits.

A lot of readers are looking for this character development and back-story as well, and both men and women have told me this is why they like my stories.  My story, Going Green, has 17 single-spaced pages of so-called “irrelevant” details before the characters even kiss.  Since it won the Earth Day contest this year, I’d have to postulate that there are a few readers out there who liked the “irrelevant” back-story of the characters as well.

I'll quote two other Literotica authors with whom I've corresponded who put it more eloquently than me:

SimonBrooke said: “How two characters end up having sex is far more interesting than Tab A goes into Slot B, comes out again, goes in again, comes out again, goes in again... Sex is fun of course and I'm not knocking it, but it's the last step in a dance - and it's the dance that is interesting.”

Petitmort said (I don't have his exact quote so I'm paraphrasing): the beauty of an erotic story is the lead up, the building sexual tension, and the moment when two people become a possibility for each other.

I think that points 1 & 2 reflect your preference more than elements of good writing.  Nevertheless, you are entitled to your opinions, and I thank you for sharing them. However, your points 3 through 9 are all bang on, so thank you for your submission on these very important elements of style and good writing.

MawrGorshinMawrGorshinover 12 years ago
I agree with BobNobbi

Character and plot development are important in ANY story, even erotic writing. People who have to have the sex right away, and nothing but sex, have short attention spans IMO. Sometimes character and plot development ARE part of the building sexual tension. The idea that literature and erotica are irreconcilable, as the author seems to think, is nonsense. Why else is this site called Literotica?

That said, I agree with most of the points made in this article; I'm glad to have read it, and I'll consider much of what is said here in my future writing.

GinaTinaGinaTinaover 12 years ago
Interesting...

But I don't agree with points 1, 2, 5, and 8.

If you know how to write, you can easily insert these sorts of techniques and make your story sound fabulous. This list strikes me as a better guide for novice storytellers, who may not know all the "rules" of writing yet.

Still though, point 6 is my favorite. ;)

MizTMizTover 12 years ago
Almost Right On

Overall I thought you did a fantastic job. I do however agree with "sleeplessgurl" and the comments she made. I read the storys on Lit that have the character detail you find so worthless. In fact a few of my favorite authors could leave the sex out and I would still read their storys! It is rather distracting when the wrong spelling of a word is used however I would much rather read a well told story with errors than a perfectly written story that sucks.

Maybe the big difference is that you want to read porn while I want to read a well told story that may or may not contain porn. Maybe the word "sexier" was misused in your story title. Maybe it should have read "9 Steps to More Porn in Stories"

Again I think overall you hit the nail on the head.(sorry maybe a little to descriptive for your taste) In all seriousness, I gave your story 5 Stars. It was well told, well written, and "almost" exactly what I would write, if I could write.

HeyAllHeyAllover 12 years ago
Very good

You make a look of excellent points towards making a better erotic story. More authors should read this before writing.

I've personally taken note of #4 (using 'starting' to much). I do that a lot and you make a great point on that.

I slightly disagree with #9 though about starting with descriptions. I agree with you if it's the person explaining themselves, but *sometimes* it's better if you get a brief description of the female character from the start. For instance, "I've always been attracted to her. How could I not? Her long brown hair can grab any man's attention. Her slender body and ect..."

It can work because you understand the male character's reason for lusting after the female character, and you immediately know what she looks like the moment she starts talking. But you do make a great point about some reader's wanting to imagine what she looks like for herself.

Great job on this.

bassman007bassman007over 12 years ago
Some Good Points

Although I agree with most comments, character development is huge for entertainment value. It's similar to Porn movies. If you have no idea who and why, it becomes just rutting people after a while. Good development of characters makes them more real to the reader. But I do have a couple of steps that I'd like to see.

1. Finish the damn story!! There are many stories here that I've read the first chapter or two and then the authors stops writing. If you can't finish, let someone else finish it for you.

2. Be descriptive of the sex. I don't need to know that Bob and Sally fucked after dinner. To make it work, we need details. Remember, you're painting a picture with words, not a line drawing.

H.H.MorantH.H.Morantover 12 years ago
All too true, but preaching to the choir, I'm afraid

This was a first rate piece of writing. I think that most of the rules stated are prompts and not chiseled somewhere on tablets of stone.

SKIP IRRELEVANT DETAILS Is not the issue “what is relevant?” The author states that

“Back-story can be fine, but only if you wed it to the sexual tension.”

This states the obvious, doesn’t it? I suspect Gypsy Rose Lee could have recited a good deal of poetry – even Emily Dickinson’s - before starting to disrobe because she had other ways to create sexual tension.

SKIP IRRELEVANT SEXUAL DETAILS, TOO What sexual detail is “relevant?” I usually stop reading when the author feels it necessary to tell us the woman’s bra and cup size in the first hundred words – or at all, unless somehow it is related to the plot. It almost never is, instead it is a weak attempt to give the character sexual attractiveness. One of the sexiest women I know is absolutely flatchested – and there are big busted women aplenty (although usually not with the wasp waists authors give them) who radiate anything but sexual charm.

The monster cock is something else that can be omitted. D.H. Lawrence’s Mellors (the title character in Lady Chatterley’s Lover) fucked Constance Chatterly in many different ways, always to her satisfaction, and never did we learn the size of his tool.

DON'T GENERALIZE

STOP STARTING

REMOVE EMPTY PHRASES

YOU MUST BE AT LEAST THIS LITERATE TO POST STORIES

All of these rule should be self-evident – although it is clear that they are not because they are ignored so often

ADVERTISE EFFECTIVELY

Easier said than done. Loving Wives, for instance, has a self-selected audience that well accept almost anything as long as the man is a saint, the woman a cheating slut, and is harshly punished at the end. A cheating husband? Erotic Couplings, I suppose – but just about every story except How To involves an erotic coupling

SAY "SAID" True enough, although an example you gave to the Rule No. 9 violates it:

Monica's face turned pink as Jim unbuttoned her jeans. "I can't believe we're doing this," she giggled.

In other words, none of these rules must be followed mindlessly/

DON'T START WITH A CURTAIN CALL

“Some writers start by giving each character a paragraph describing the character's face, body, and personality. This is boring. Why use paragraphs to describe characters we do not yet have reason to care about?”

Oh, so true. Take Loving Wives – and that is the way almost every story begins, and those readers don’t seem to care. But then there are other authors, e.g., Lucy1970Harker, Scotsman 69, SimonBrooke and VictorianGirl among them (there are several others – these just are at the top of MY personal list) who tell great stories with physical descriptions added only as necessary to build sexual tension

“Better yet, perhaps, leave out physical details altogether. Let the reader imagine the characters as she pleases.”

This is the best single bit of advice. If the reader is too lazy to use her/his imagination – well, tant pis

cinnamon_kisses12cinnamon_kisses12over 12 years ago
Nice review, electric1!

I agreed with a lot of the points you made, but did not agree with them all. I do hate when I writer does specific details of a character, almost to the point where it either sounds ridiculous or unreal, so I agree with leaving some things out and describing it in a different way. However, back-story and "irrelevant" back-story makes a lot of stories pop!

Albeit I know the distinct difference in a 'novel' and a 'stroke-story' and I understand that some readers aren't looking to read thousands of chapters. But where would a stroke story be at least without a little bit of imagination inside?

I also think you should point out people who do Chapter stories (and promise to return x amount of days later) , write a few lovely chapters and never return. I always seem to forget that I've read them and have to go back and read them again. It's kind of annoying.

I also agree with the 'Said' Point, except that said often doesn't do it when perhaps there is an argument or an extreme situation. it just sounds...bland. I know that people often don't know what to substitute, as this is what made me understand your point, but all those people need are a thesaurus and they're golden!

Again, nice review. I think more people should write reviews like these so aspiring writers won't be afraid to put their works out on Literotica.

AnonymousAnonymousover 12 years ago
Gr8 start.

I aspire to producing a story on Literotica that would attract good reviews and so am happy to accept your points in a very positive way. The main 'turn-off' for me is bad spelling and poor grammar. You see it in the first paragraph of a story where it's 'there' instead of 'their' or 'of' instead of 'off'. If a writer can't be 'arsed' or bothered to check the correct spelling, I can't be arsed to continue with their story. Thanks.

nightspy81nightspy81over 12 years ago
:/

The problem I've got with this is that you're guilty of breaking your own rules, primarily "Generalizing". You're assuming we all want the same thing from our stories, which is of course a ridiculous assumption to make.

The other big flaw in your logic is that you're talking about people writing "porn stories" and erotica as if it's one and the same. I think there is a subtle difference between the two, with the former being something to simply jerk off to while the latter has a bit more depth and substance to the whole thing. My preference is for the latter, although I can appreciate the quality of both.

My advice to any writer is write what you want. Ultimately who are you writing for if not yourself, and the most important thing is that you share a story that you are happy with yourself. If everyone else loves it too then fantastic.

estragonestragonover 12 years ago
Interesting and Literate

electric, as with others among the commentators here, I agree in part and dissent in part with your conclusions. "Said" is better than playing Tom Swift with adverbs. "Wanted poster" descriptions of characters turn me off. Poor spelling and grammar give me an acute case of quibbleritis, but only if I finish reading the story; if poor enough, they cause me to abandon reading. Back-story, though, is important. If I don't care about the characters, I'll stop reading. But every aspiring Literotica writer should read what you've posted here, whether or not they agree with it entirely.

AnonymousAnonymousover 12 years ago
Yes, writers should check their spelling.

The writer is mostly full of himself, but does make a few good points. For instance spelling. The poet is Emily Dickinson, not dickenson.

Geez, even my spell checker caught that one!

Writers should also watch out for words that sound similar to other words, but are totally different in meaning and spelling.

For instance, I have seen over a dozen stories, where the word barley is used instead of barely. Barley is a grain folks!

Also, when people are cold or scared, they shudder. Shuttering is probably not even a verb, but if it were it would be closing the shutters on your windows.

AnonymousAnonymousover 12 years ago
I agree

Good general points everybody should be aware of, and follow.

electric1electric1over 12 years agoAuthor
Disagreement May be Smaller than Some Think

I’m not sure if I did a poor job of explaining #1, or if people only skimmed it. Several think they disagree with it, but I’m not sure they do.

Sleeplessgurl argues, “The beauty of an erotic story is the lead up, the building sexual tension.” That sounds like my advice, “Tease and build to the sex act.” That’s not irrelevant detail. Your Earth Day story may have taken several pages to get to a kiss, SG, but it blisters with sexual tension in the first paragraph. My own Earth Day story this year (“How Naked Are You Willing to Get for a Case?”) never even reaches a kiss, but I hope it has sexual tension from the first sentence to the last.

This is all quite different from a story in which there is no sexual tension (and often no plot or tension of any sort) for the first half of the story.

NakedinNC_NakedinNC_over 12 years ago
You Lost Me

I was with you in the beginning, not totally, but a little. I thought perhaps you were a real writer, but was aghast to see you misspell the last name of Emily Dickinson. Then you added insult to injury, when just after we are told to check our spelling, you use the word: summery. Were you referring to a particular time of year? or maybe a genre of stories that are set in ancient Sumer?

Good attempt, but you need to follow your own advice.

AnonymousAnonymousover 12 years ago
Spelling

Check your spelling. There is a big difference between summery and summary.

Phantom1945Phantom1945over 12 years ago
All the previous comments are valid...

but why do you assume that the readers are female? I'd venture to guess that this website's readership is more likely 50/50 M/F. Some good points, but please get your facts right before you publish. Thanks for the tips. I gave your article a 2.

AnonymousAnonymousover 12 years ago
A little bit of bullshit

This is clearly one person's opinion and really a pretty shallow opinion.

Great erotica does involve plot, description, lead-up, back story, side story and everything that good literature possesses. The author of this opinion apparently likes 'glory hole' sex on the skewer. Fine..that's his taste but he does not speak for more literary and psychologically oriented readers.

AnonymousAnonymousover 12 years ago
Valid points in a lot of cases

There are a lot of stories out there that read like laundry lists, and I think a lot of them would benefit from following these tips... I know I've stopped reading quite a few stories for various combinations of 1, 2 and 9.

While I'm a strong proponent of plot in these stories, I do think it should be integrated and read as a part of the story and not as a meandering preface.

Obviously, if a writer has an audience and regularly gets good ratings, perhaps these tips don't apply so much... but if you look at the stories with ratings below 3, these points nail it pretty well.

AnonymousAnonymousover 12 years ago

I don't agree totally, because, bang bang, he fucked my cunt. I gasped in pleasure, we both came, end of the story type of erotica doesn't even give me time or bother to make me hard.

AnonymousAnonymousover 12 years ago
Learn before you teach!

Electric 1 - Get yourself a little series of red 'H's attached to your stories before you begin to tell others how to write.

mikothebabymikothebabyover 12 years ago
to be fair

I went and read the few stories that you have on the site. I was not overly impressed actually. I find you a mediocre author at best. I think you are very misguided about Lit readers as a whole. Most of us want some type of plot. Myself, if I start reading a story and realize it is just a stroke story, I stop and move on. Lit readers have more intelligence than you give them credit for. Until you can put out stories like the more well known authors on the site, I think you should leave the teaching of what to write alone. Or at least wait until you have more than 4 meager stories that are less than appealing to show us. Again, just my humble opinion.

AnonymousAnonymousover 12 years ago
Not so much

I think you need to look at the category. Erotic couplings, for example is mostly about two willing participants. The story generally focuses on the sex part as the rest is sort of also ran.

Some of the other categories, such as loving wives. or non consent, usually involve complicated emotions. For these stories, you need some character development and a plot line.

Maybe we need to have a category Stroke Story!

Personally I dislike the phony physical descriptions of the characters, just about all stories written in the first person, and the words "naughty', 'gals', and 'seem'.

But that's just me

AnonymousAnonymousabout 12 years ago
awesome

I enjoyed your tips and agree!!!

Scotsman69Scotsman69about 12 years ago
Rather underwhelming

Some of us believe that for it to be really good, erotica needs excellent writing and some literary quality.

Chacun a son gout.

brujaybrujayalmost 12 years ago
Interesting Read

As a non-writer, I found the essay interesting and agreed with many of your points. I also can see that most of these tips are directly attached to your hot button about other authors. Please keep writing and sharing your stories and without worrying about the other authors on this site.

One question needs to be directed to those commentators above that question this author's credentials to write this particular essay: Does a basketball coach need to be a successful player in order to be a successful coach? I would humbly suggest it is not necessarily the case.

EuphonyEuphonyover 11 years ago
Enjoy stimulating debate

At first I hesitated to give this 5 stars as I disagree with some key points. But as a whole it is of merit for at least starting the discussion on what Lit readers think. It does come across as holier than thou at points which I loathed but it made me consider my choices in lit if only to further cement them. This is something few things here have done.

Ill agree that many here expect sex within the first page or so. I counter with those that do often find authors interchangeable. If that doesnt bother the author then its a perfect exchange, a stroke story for someone that will always see it as such.

I will still give higher marks to an author who gives a great story over a stroke fest (usually via comment or even a thank you PM) The best stroke I ever read still is a little hollow over all.

AnonymousAnonymousabout 11 years ago
CLICHE

Its a cliche.

NekoParksNekoParksabout 11 years ago
Even if Strunk and White were to write a how to article on porn. . .

it would not have been as funny as your advice for using "said" in a porn story. You have included truly helpful advice for new and experienced writers. Thank you.

LadyVerLadyVerover 10 years ago

I enjoyed this HT advice, as well as the comments. I've been working on a first story and wrestling with the issue of whether I write the sex scene the way I want to, or write what is more or less expected for a porn/erotica site. Someone told me no one likes erotica stories where the sex got put off until later in the story, that too many writers think they have to write a novel before they get to the sex scene. I can understand that point of view. However, the wanker stories are a dime a dozen on a porn site and after a while they all sound alike: suck and fuck, or fuck and suck. I know I'm not the only one who enjoys plot and character development, as well as the buildup of sexual tension before a sex scene. What's good about this Lit entry is that it offered some good advice, especially about dialogue tags, and got people talking about the other elements in an erotica story besides the sex.

AnonymousAnonymousabout 9 years ago
The anonymous reader said, "I love you, electric1."

I would like to suggest a follow up list suggesting the writer should know the location for the parts of anatomy the include in their story. It is distracting to read about a man plunging in several inches before reaching the hymen which is actually the external ring of excess skin making the opening much smaller, prior to it being torn.

There are several really good diagrams showing the correct location and types of hymen which are all located in the same place on the female anatomy, prior to any sex or activity which ruptures or rips it.

Why do stories make it seem as though the many of the people writing them have never had intercourse, at least not any with a virgin? As a woman I can state, without a doubt, it would not have been pleasurable to lose my virginity to a cock with the width of soda can. A monster 9 or 10 inch cock would not have been able to penetrate me without all of the people in my neighborhood being alerted by my pained screaming. It hurts to have the skin around a tiny opening ripped to allow for access, so I'd like the loss of virginity to be approached as if the writer has had some experience with sex. I know many fantasies are written without having experienced what is being written in the story, but they hopefully are informed enough to do it justice.

Thank you for mentioning the need for correct forms of the words being used. I read "they're" as "they are" out of habit, so it does throw me off course when it is used for "there" or "their" in a story. I read "you're" as "you are," so I read it as the words not contracted as opposed the how they intended it. It is amusing to read sentences such as this one: "He stared at you're pussy as you pulled you're panties down." They don't realize they've just stated, " He stared at you are pussy as you pulled you are panties down." I tend to avoid stories written as if I'm in them, but they tendd to be the best ones for a good laugh.

AnonymousAnonymousabout 7 years ago

This is an old post, but I think a lot of people are missing the point about backstories or characterization. We porn story wankers want to understand the *sexual* (or romantic) motivations of the characters.

We don’t care about the other stuff. We're not interested in reading a thousand words about Bob competently managing his bowling supply businesses, or Betty having to stay in Denver with her sick mother. That’s not relevant to us wankers. And 99% of the time, when you talk about a previous divorce or breakup, it sounds like the author is making excuses for themselves. The OP is correct that if you start with a biography, the story usually isn’t very good. People want to find something they’re into and self-insert.

Also, if you have the big build-up type of story, make sure you deliver at the end. There’s a lot of stories with 3+ pages of innuendo and seduction, and then it turns out the guy can’t last two paragraphs.

(I’ve gotten into the habit of paging forward to determine if a “sex story” on this site has any real sex content in it. A surprising number really don’t.)

AnonymousAnonymousover 5 years ago
said giggled

Right after telling writers to just write "said" you give an example that helps build character by using "giggled" instead of plainly using "said". Evidentally there are some times to skip using said.

AnonymousAnonymous12 months ago

Step number 10.

Plan and execute the ending. Most stories are just snap shots of certain events in a persons life and not a complete life long cradle to grave saga. There doesn't usually need to be a follow up chapter, but what is written does need to be completed.

So many stories are ruined for the lack of a logical ending. The stories just end with too many unanswered questions.

Some stories just meander along towards the end, but there is no finale.

Other stories just stop unexpectedly like a car running out of fuel.

IRonMan78IRonMan7812 months ago

Thank you for the tips!

In real life, I have an ex that does not know the difference between the words "as" and "has." I have received written notes from her that started with "Has you know..." This woman has a Master's in Social work...

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