The South will Rise Again

To semofuncpl3

I agree completely, but this is the age of the hot button and the 30-second sound bite. During the last presidential election a youtube group had one of there group hold up a sign declaring "Obama is a Keynesian" in the DC area. Person after person castigated the sign holder, declaring the President to be a native-born American. People were unable to distinguish Keynesian - a follower of the economic policies initially expounded by Sir John Maynard Keynes, from Kenyan - a person from the African country of Kenya. People do not read and reflect anymore. I am a proud son of the South, but that does not blind me from historical fact.

You cannot have common sence.

I agree with you and people no longer have common sense, the people that scream the loudest about racism are the biggest racist. They want you and me to make up for their upbringing.

slavery

one thing i can not understand about slavery is why is everybody so absorbed with the idea. yes there were slaves in the south. the civil war was not fought over slavery. it was a puely economic issue. 75% of the federal income was produced by the south. the money was then spent in the north. the south just wanted a bigger portion spent in the south. lincoln was not opposed to slavery.

Reasons for secession

The preambles and articles of secession of the southern states only mention one specific grievance against the United States, interference with slavery. The rest of the articles give legal/constitutional basis for secession.

Examples: "Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union.” Dec 24, 1860 They note “an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery” They also objected to interference with the return of fugitive slaves, voting by black men in New England, the establishment of abolitionist societies, and not recognizing "slave transit" by slave holders into non-slaveholding states. There are no reasons cited not directly tied to slavery.

Mississippi, Jan 9, 1861 - "Declaration of Secession" - “Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery — the greatest material interest of the world,”

Read them all, they are online.

The belief that somehow the south paid the taxes while the north benefited is also bogus. The federal government received the vast majority of it's funds from Ad Volorum taxes in the form of tariffs. FY 1859, Total Federal Income $65.4 Million - Tariff income from:
Major Northern ports, $44.994 million
Major Southern ports - $2.830 million,
Other ports $8.576 million.
www.flickr.com/photos/36584779@N05/8512092444/siz es/o/in/photostream/

The cause of The War Between the States, The War of Northern Aggression, The Late Great Unpleasantness, The American Civil War or whatever you may choose to call it was caused by the fear of abolition of slavery and the economic chaos that would most likely ensue.

Wow!

I am a southern man, and I'm damn proud of it. My ancestors owned slaves. I have four ancestors who served in the military during the War of 1861-1865; three went with the South, one with the North. I'm proud of all four.

Slavery in the USA was benign when compared to other places. In Brazil they had to continuously import more slaves because they worked the ones they had to death. Here in America the slave population was so healthy and so well treated it was able to reproduce itself. Most slaves did not live on huge plantations, but on small farms. For a young southern man to be able to buy a slave it was like being able to buy a better horse. One did not mistreat a horse. In most cases the first slave purchase was a female; someone to help out with the kids.

The War Between the States wasn't about slavery; it was about the 'racial readjustment question'. No one knew what to do with 4 million hapless black people once they would be set free. They just weren't competent to manage on their own; many still aren't. They needed, and regrettably still need to be managed. The descendants of our slave population do not make our country stronger or better; we are weaker because of their current circumstances. I might add it's not their fault.

Most southerners served in southern armies, not because of slavery, but because they didn't want a bunch of northerners telling them what to do. Southern whites, true southern whites, are usually Anglo-Saxon or Scottish. They, we, don't see things the way some other people do. Yes, we have our own customs.

I read some of the crap some 'anon' wrote about 'Kush'. He's misinformed; if the people of Kush had a language, there is evidence they did, it hasn't been deciphered. Hippocrates was Greek, and most likely a light haired blue eyed Dorian. Cleopatra was Greek too. Imhotep was an Egyptian, but they very clearly asserted that they were not black! Ancient Egyptians held the black people of Nubia and Kush in very low regard. There are ancient 'stele' along the Nile that forbade the movement of black people north of certain points.

Don't get me wrong. I am not a bigot. I am honest, and I am a realist. I am glad the South lost. I don't think black people have had the same opportunities as whites. We as a nation have never adequately addressed our 'black problem'. We most likely never will; the financial costs to appropriately educate and acclimate our black fellow citizens is considered too great by those who run our country. Regrettably many believe it's cheaper to incarcerate them.

Glasshouses

I don't think there is any culture that hasn't practiced slavery in one form or other at some time in their history.
We all live in glass houses so let us stop throwing stones and learn to live with each other - in peace!

Hmmmm

Here's the ultimate kicker.

I really hate liberals. Really and truly. They've built their platform out of special interests, and nearly all those interests claim some aggrieved victim status of some sort. It's handy when it comes to raising money, getting out some votes, and hell, why argue with someone over the facts when you can just scream "racist!" and walk off a winner? And there are many people very invested in keeping the racism alive; race hustlers like Al Sharpton (he's no Rev in my eyes).

The problem is that the race card has been played for far too long and too often. Like how it's all about "white privilege" now, how white people are all racists just because they are white, like if I said all black people were retarded, would that be racist? Odd...one sweeping generality is racist, yet another is not. And it's remarkable how one set of self appointed victim industry people have supposedly taken on the mantle of all knowing grand poo-bah, and their judgments are not to be questioned.

So now, when anyone speaks of race in any form, if they are not one of the "entitled" class, that speech is to be shouted down and drowned out regardless of validity or truth. Today, it's about some thug in Ferguson who messed with the bull and got the horns, but tomorrow it's some obscure writer in Literotica.

Here's the sum up.....true racists don't want a conversation on racism. They want to dictate how they are victims, everyone else is an oppressor, and they are quick to pile on and subjugate anyone who speaks out. But what they haven't noticed, hell, maybe they just are incapable of seeing it, is that most people are tired of the hype and bullshit. Tired of being manipulated, tired of being accused of things they do not do, but mostly tired of being forced to give a shit about a condition which hasn't existed in this country since 1865.

I don't own slaves. To the best of my knowledge, no one in my family ever has, either. I don't know any slaves, or parents of slaves, or grandparents of slaves. When I see an actual situation of slavery or racism, then I'll give a shit. Until then, I owe no-one a damned thing, I'm not responsible for what anyone else has done in any generation, and anyone who tries to impress responsibility for their made up victimhood status on me will get served a large and hot steaming bowl of "shut the fuck up." Further attempts will only get that person a side order of "go fuck yourself," and the really persistent will get a double helping of "may you be rectally relieved by a syphilitic boar." Twice.

And to the author, I say....fuck it. Write what you want, be responsible for your fuckups, and tell the grievance industry tards to go fuck themselves.

you're just justifying what you wish to believe.. and rationalizing so that you feel no guilt for what you've already written... my main problem with your story was your pushing of the idea that those darkies were happy and well fed and that darkie girls just loved massa coming down to poke them... often times making their husband qnd kids watch... i have more respect for outright racists that just say to my face that they dont like my color... i don't doubt that you think that you're an enlightened moral person... but your elaborate excuses for the south paint a picture of a person that i don't think i'd like being friends with..

@Anonymous 05/17/15

No, YOU'RE just trying to justify what YOU want to see!

NOTHING in "Boston To Birmingham" tries to justify slavery or to suggest that the slaves had any sort of love for their masters.

Were there SOME masters who treated some or all of their slaves with SOME degree of care and affection, and/r some slaves who developed SOME degree of affection for their master? I've not made a study of it, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if so! In ANY case, even if true, it certainly would justify slavery, and I don't believe that qhml1 was trying to do that.

And it IS a historical fact, as Q says, that many of the slave ships were owned and manned by Northerners, and the initial capture of the saves was at least usually carried out by fellow Africans. Check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade

nice rebuttal

Spot on with your explanation.

Very well written and documented. You mentioned that your people were share croppers which like the indentured were defacto slaves themselves. as history shows some masters were humane but many were not.
Ed Grocott
edgrocott@gmail.com

more slavery facts

over 4 million (i think the number is closer to 8 milion) africans were shipped across the atlantic in slavery.
onlt 450,000 were sold into slaverey in the usa / colonies.

slavery in the usa was deplorable, and a life sentence.
however,
slavery in the tropics was deplorable and a death sentence.

in the tropics,
slaves work the sugar plantations ,
and they were worked to death,
day in and day out.
there was never any down time.
there was no winter rest period.

relative to the tropics,
slave life in the usa was so ''good'',
the slave population grew well beyond the half million that were ''imported''.
this was not typically the case in the tropics.
there, they were worked to death,
and then when the plantation owners needed more,
they went and bought another one.
of course this does not mean some slaves in the usa were not worked to death.


slavery in the usa was deplorable.
but so is slavery in africa today, and everywhere else it exists in the world.
just google ''human trafficking'' and read up, to see how large a problem it is.

i do not know that my ancestors owned slaves,
but it would not surprise me if they did.
i'm not proud of it,
but i'm not ashamed of it either.
i have never owned a slave.
and i have been taught it is wrong to do so.

now if i could just bring myself to buy ''free trade'' coffee.

Indentured servants

Indentured servants most certainly did want to come; it's why they agreed. That said, they were basically slaves until they completed their contracts.

There is a cadre of people who go around looking for reasons to call people racist, sexist, etc. Some of them have found a way to make money at it. Never apologize to these people. You'll know them by how they behave. Some call them Social Justice Warriors, others call them the PC police. They are liars and frauds.

I read your work; you owe them nothing. No apologies, no explanations. Any rational adult would not read what they have into your work.

Not quite right

Slavery in the South was different because it was indeed "racist" slavery.

And unfortunately the genesis of this "scientific/philosophic" racism was the Enlightenment Philosophers - seizing on Aristotle's "some men were made to be slaves and others their masters." John Locke wrote the Charter for the Carolinas and held stock in "The African Company." It was Protestants and then purely atheistic secular humanists who led all this racist slavery and NOT the Roman Catholic Church.

Look up Bartolome de las Casas and the Valladolid debate.

Look up "racism of the Enlightenment Philosophers."

Read what "the Cornerstone" of the Confederacy was in Alexander Stephens 1861 Cornerstone Speech.

Consider the whole Eugenics science movement of the 20th century - where slavery had ended but scientific racism continued right along and drove all those anti-misegenation laws like Virginia's 1924 "Racial Integrity Act."

Also google "the Truth about the Catholic Church and slavery" and read the article by historian Rodney Stark.

Can O' Worms !

Well just read this story 3 years after it was posted. My what a raucous comment section ! I am a Son of the South, I've traced 11 ancestors who fought for the confederacy ( and 4 for the Union). Not one of those ancestors was beyond the rank of Capt. , only 2 were officers. None of my ancestors, that I've been able to research had any high standing in the leadership of either side of the conflict. Did find 2 who were slave holders, but apparently on a small scale. Now with my skeletons laid bare for all to see, will someone please tell me where MY actual sin comes in ?
How does one be convicted as so many commentators on this posting seem to think that I should be ? Half of my family tree were from East Tennessee , which was actually a stronghold of unionist , which is where 3 of the 4 ancestors who fought for the union come in. They were actually seven Union regiments of Tennesseans who were well decorated during the war ( Homegrown Yankees : Tennessee's Union cavalry in the civil war by James Alex Baggett ) , does this lessen the stain on my soul ? Not in the eyes of the know everything crowd that has commented over the years since this was posted !

The simple ( I know that nothing is ever simple in this discussion) fact is that slavery in various forms is as old as the Human animal ! Everyone reading my words have ancestors who were war like invaders of their neighbors lands. They killed and enslaved their enemies , and acted in ways that our civilized minds can simply not fathom today.
But , that base part of the human psyche is still there in every homo sapiens that still walk the planet ! We as a species are capable of barbaric acts on our fellow man , its just a cold hard truth ! One has only to look at the Syrian conflict of today where over half a million souls have perished ! Look at the Bloody conflict in Rwanda in the 90's when a million people were slaughtered in just a few months ! Bosnia, Sudan , East Timor , and many others in just the last 20 years in our so called " civilized " world of today.
And slavery is alive and well as I right this in March of 2016. The Boko Haram rebels in Nigeria famously raided a school and took hundreds of teenaged girls into slavery recently. ISIS fighters in Iraq and Syria have been well documented as having pressed their captives into slavery in the last few years. These groups were far from the Antebellum South as could possibly be ! These are only a couple of incidents of modern slavery, there are too many more for me to even begin to list !

So what I'm trying to say ( not very well I'm afraid) is that the human condition is not a simple black and white thing, there are thousands of different shades of gray between the two.
Very lively discussion you have begun Qhml1.
Cpprcrk

Unfortunate Title

The problem as I see it is the Lost Cause apologetics that claim that African chattle slavery had little or nothing to do with sesession and the Civil War (War of Northern Aggression). This nonsence started with Jubal Early.

Four Confederate states passed formal Statements of Reasons for Sesession. All four were adopted at the same time as and by exactly the same conventions that enacted the Ordinences of Sesession. All four state clearly and unblushingly that the prospect of federal interference with slavery was the reason for sesession. Yet in the South you still hear to the contrary, as I did repeatedly on a recent trip.

Don't y'all think your ancestors knew why they did what they did?

Slavery was bad all around!

The idea of one person owning another has become anathema since the middle of the 19th century...before that (and in some places, since then), it was just accepted as fact of life!

In the United States South, it had another chilling effect. It fostered a cash-poor economy (in which slaves were often a measure of economic wealth and societal importance).

It took a Civil War to start the repairing process.

To all those busting your chops, ask them if they know how many slaves you own or have owned! It might not shut the knuckleheads up, but might make you laugh a little.

Fair enough.

Facts eventually prevail.

When that line comes up?

My answer is..."The South Already Done Riz..."

Presidents, heroes in all fields, an Olympics...In what way hasn't The South risen?

Your Facts.....

..... brook no argument, except among those deluded zealots hiding behind the States Rights myth as the justification for tens of thousands of deaths (my southern family members included) in a war to preserve the abomination of slavery and wealth of a privileged few. Slavery was the cause of the Civil War, just as Catholic Church greed was for the Crusades.