On Open Marriage and Swinging

Thank you for your intelligent discussion

I never got a chance to read milfwife's story or the comments it generated, but I have seen posts similar to the ones you quoted here before, and I don't think I've ever seen any studies quoted, either.



Anything to do with challenging people's thoughts about the traditional context in which they were taught to view sex gets many of them fearful and antagonistic. It's why people were enticed to vote for Proposition 8 in California, and yet, when the case finally got to the US Supreme Court, the petitioners were told they had no standing to even bring the case. They stated that gay marriage would hurt their own marriages and their children's view of sex, so therefore it shouldn't be legal. But when asked to cite evidence of the damage it would bring, they could quote none. Because they could not prove that they would be damaged, their case was thrown out. They just didn't like their world view being challenged, regardless of whether or not the existence of gay marriage would affect them in any way. 



Loving Wives is a particularly tough category, mixing, as it does, swinging wives or cuckoldresses with cheating wives. Many people in this category suffer the burden of having been hurt by cheating spouses and cannot begin to imagine letting their spouse have sex with anyone else, because they can only think of it as harkening back to the emotional pain that cheating caused them. Without separating the two groups, there will always be a natural conflict, but I've always assumed the site's owners love the attention it brings. 



When marriage was conceived, people lived half as long as they do now. It is very hard to be everything another person needs for 40-60 years. Allowing for couples to fulfill their needs in non-traditional ways will actually encourage the survival of marriage. The traditional marriage that existed one hundred years ago would be abhorrent to most of us, nowadays, as the husband owned everything--his wife, his children, and all the property. If a wife was abused and unhappy, he might give her a divorce, but she would leave with nothing, and that meant he kept the children, as well. Two generations ago, it offended mens' egos if their wives worked outside the home; now, a second income is viewed as necessary to a successful family, not to mention the fulfillment of a wife's talents as an individual. Marriage has changed a lot since the Industrial Revolution, and will continue to change, if it is to survive. One thing that will probably always exist, unless our species changes a lot, is the need most people in the world have for someone to walk by their side through life.



Society now doesn't blink if a couple has premarital sex or lives together before marriage, but any hint of an "alternative lifestyle" still gets tongues wagging. As more of us are realizing that our gay neighbors are basically just like us, maybe we will realize that people who practice swinging, cuckoldry, or BDSM or just like us, too. As one of the female complainants in "The Case Against 8" said, she had no time to dwell on herself as being in a gay marriage, because she was too busy working, managing a household, and raising children. Do I run around thinking about myself as being in a heterosexual marriage? No, as most of us in extraordinarily happy marriages do, whether gay or straight, I'm just damned grateful for my partner in life. Life can be tough, and sex is a small part of life, but it is obviously one of the important elements that keep couples together. Kudos to any couples that make each other happy, whatever way they do it, as far as I'm concerned.

Married ?

My wife and I enjoyed an open marriage, until it ended with her death from lung cancer, some 53 years later....just sayin'

Cheating

Sd far as I'm concerned, adultery is always cheating.

Well done!

You make a lot of great points here.
" It is about loving your partner enough to give him/her an experience that you cannot provide."
My wife and I have been getting together with another male on occasion for the last six years. There is nothing I enjoy more than to watch her have two or three explosive orgasms in a row, no matter which one of us is the cause. It's the best sex ever, and we have had a very solid relationship all the way through. And now, she is always "in the mood".
Thank you for the good read.

OK Pretty Good Synopsis

I think you fail at objectivity by stating as "fact" that monogamous marriages are not as strong as open marriages. Go back and read your own words as objectively as you can. Swans mate for life, a wonderful and universally loved concept. This does not mean they hook up with other swans with their mate's approval. It means what it says. Humans mate for life too, at least us lucky ones. There is no stronger relationship on earth than the truly faithful marriage.

If you need to "swing"

Perhaps you're just married to the wrong person. If you can't interest your mate in having sexual relations with you, maybe you're married to the wrong person. I think most people know that having sex with another person outside your marriage is wrong. That's why people don't go around advertising that they are "swingers". They know they're cheating. Don't want to be monogamous? Don't get married. Don't love your spouse anymore? Get divorced. Your example of one study done in 2000 has little or no value. Thousands of studies get done all the time on any subject you can imagine. Show me one that says swingers are doing better than the average divorce rate in this Country and I'll find another that shows those involved get divorced more often. Or get dead. (Angry spouses and all that). Why you felt this was a worthwhile article to post on an erotic website is beyond me. I guess it takes all kinds. This was a waste of space.

To each their own.

I'm too young to get married right now. I've read about this lifestyle and have even met two of such wonderful couples in my life (no, they don't go around asking people to join their bed).

They are very much like us normal people and I wouldn't have guessed their polygamous situation if I hadn't enquired about it discreetly.

This one is to the anons before me:

Don't practise swinging if you are particularly unhappy or jealous with it. No one is forcing you to do it.

BUT...

DO NOT preach your views of self-righteousness on other people. If the anyone has a problem with swinging them they're free to avoid it.

Like the anonymous before me, I hate such species of people who think that they're the salt of Earth itself.

Nice and enlightening essay on the topic.

TSB

To "If you need to swing"

Fucking Anon (probably 12 years old)

How stupid can you get. If you read the piece it answered every objection you just made all over again. Are you on autopilot that you can't read and learn.

Yes there was only one study referred to. There are LOTS OF THEM that say exactly the same thing. Swingers are happier, getting more sex, communicate better and divorce rates are significantly lower than the general population. You say they get divorced well show us one study that agrees. I've seen several that would disagree with you.

Marry someone else? Why would I marry someone I love less, trust less and communicate more poorly with?

Your beliefs are flawed beyond reason when you preach about something without actually learning what you're talking about.

To the author good article I'll bookmark it for reference when I run into the idiot anons that inhabit this genre.

Appreciated the statement that explains your purpose

You jump right out at the beginning and CLEARLY say that you don't view swinging as normal, or "superior" to the archetypical monogamous marriage. You also state several times that this alternative lifestyle choice ISN'T for everyone. In fact, you caution that MOST marriages couldn't survive it, because people just don't understand the risks involved, and possess the communication skills required to be successful in an open marriage.
Here's what I really loved about your argument:
Considering the high divorce rate for ALL marriages across the board, the same reasons exist whether or not the couple was monogamous, open, gay, racially minority, rich or poor. So simple logic yes, but accurate. If a couple finds a flaw, and can't stay married, the notion of "irreconcilable differences" exists- period! Whatever the philosophical nature of the difference is, the marriage arrives at the same result.
A couple who chose an open marriage as a last ditch effort to repair a bad marriage are just as doomed to failure as a monogamous couple who are separated for long periods of time because of a job. A gay marriage where the couple disagrees about child-rearing, and breaks up, is the same as mixed race couple who divorce about money. The things that identify them as different don't affect what they have in common. As some point, when a married couple cease to agree on a functioning way to stay together and go forward, the divorce is the result. I really think people forget this, as they try to play some sort of blame game. It must have been the open marriage that doomed them to failure, right? WRONG! It is because they didn't set rules, or if they did, didn't follow them. OR, one or both people made the age old mistake of taking their spouse for granted, and forgot to put them first, succumbing instead to selfish, and destructive behaviors. That last scenario plays out in relationships ALL the time (resulting in divorce) and no one specific demographic can claim to "own" the lion's share of the responsibility for influencing selfish, immature behavior.

The biggest complaint I have about your essay, is that it doesn't address the issue that I personally have with the open marriage concept. I have made a few comments here and there on stories, but have never found one that addresses this issue.

I have never understood the claim that somehow having sex (OK the difference of sex vs. love is just assumed here for the purpose of this argument) with some one else can actually INCREASE the love and feelings you have for your spouse. Even the open-minded participant must agree, that what she "loves" is that he allowed her the freedom to fuck someone else. Ok, many stories tout the virtues of "make-up" sex, or "reclamation" sex. I can visualize that being powerful. However, just as devoted monogamous sex can get boring after 20 years, so must the "make-up" sex? If any long term sexual act is practiced over and over again, and "newness" IS the very spice the open marriage participants are looking for, how could reconnecting with the spouse, not ALSO get old? Yes, I have heard it before. It is "just sex" with others, but "making love" with the spouse. I still have a hard time seeing how that love isn't diminished, because what makes it unique after many/any other partners have experienced the same thing? But you say the others don't get to experience the "love"?! What are you really doing different when fucking, that you are or are not doing when making love? Is it the way you look in their eyes? Is it the electricity of desire? Is it a abstract feeling of safety and security? I know what the answer is for me, but not nearly enough people can actually describe just what marks the difference between the two. It might be a lost cause, but trying to persuade commenters NOT to rail against open marriage situations, isn't going to happen when so many stories feature unlikable characters who have no idea what real love is, and are too blind to see all of the potential dangers in what are usually described as destructive scenarios, to even an objective reader.
I will admit to a reading a few (JUST a few) stories that feature an open marriage lifestyle that actually seems to work. But in those stories, specific rules were in place. Time frames were short (which is to say, that after a certain period, the swinging activity ceased). And YES, the most important ingredient was honest communication. If you have a story example that features a long term, continuous open marriage, that was successful (i.e. best case scenario), I'd be interested to read it. But I wonder, does it explain how sex with others brings the two spouses closer? Usually, it only seems to focus on increased sexual activity, and rarely focuses on the real emotions involved, or intelligent and mature expressions of real love.
See, the problem that I have, and I think most do, is that DEVOTION is usually a big part of being able to express real love. By its very definition, an open marriage has trivialized that spirit of devotion. No she may never leave him, but THAT isn't the definition of being devoted. Even if she always chooses him first, over any other lover, even if she is careful not to hurt his feelings at any time, the hot-wife can never look in the mirror and claim she is devoted only to one man. At some level, that just HAS to weaken the love that these spouses share. May be I just don't understand, granted, but that is what I wish your essay helped to explain better. May be you will follow up with a more complete discussion of the feelings and emotions encountered. Sure, I imagine that it is and always will be different for everybody, but there MUST be some emotional commonality shared amongst successful swingers. If the prime question that your essay was set to answer was "how and why do these couples stay married"?
I'm not sure you answered it fully. That said, it was still a start down the path of a thought provoking topic. Thanks!

@ Anon from 7/6

Thanks very much for your thoughtful comments. You asked how having sex with someone else can increase the love/feelings you have for your spouse, and my answer would be: it doesn't.

There is an old saying (and Sting song) that goes: "If you love someone, set them free." The rest of that saying (which isn't often repeated) states: "If they come back, they're yours; if they don't, they never were."

When you set your spouse "free", you take a risk that he/she won't return. As I stated in my essay, however, that risk is similar to leaping from an airplane with a parachute, in that it isn't really a risk -- it just feels like it. If you trust someone enough to set them free, the odds are pretty good that the person will return.

So, to answer your question, when you set someone free and he/she returns, your feelings for that person can often be reaffirmed, which results in an emotional high. It's like discovering all over again that you are loved.

Similarly, when you are set free by your spouse, and you return to him/her, your feelings for that spouse are also reaffirmed, because you realize that he/she loves and trusts you so much, he/she was willing to take that risk.

Now, you also asked whether that reaffirmation becomes "old" after awhile, and the answer is: of course. And if that were the only reason for opening your marriage or swinging, then there would be little incentive to do it over a long period of time.

My point was that, from a hormonal standpoint, something seems to happen to women when they are with a new man. Their sexiness and desirability are reaffirmed and rediscovered, and their libido increases. When that happens, not only does it benefit the new men they are with, but their husbands as well. At least, that is what I have learned through my own experience -- and through those I know who dabble in "the lifestyle."

Enjoyed the essay

I enjoyed this essay immensely even though I partly disagree with it. I can't quote any studies that show that open marriages end in divorce more than monogamous ones. I simply don't know. But I do agree that it isn't for everyone. I do have one point of contention with this essay.

I seems to imply that open marriages are more honest and communicate better than monogamous ones. It also seems to have a bias toward the belief that people involved in them to be happier than monogamous. I would respectfully disagree.

I will say that your essay has "opened" my eyes as to how it can be beneficial to SOME people. I just don't feel that people in open marriages have a deeper commitment than closed ones. I think it is a different kind of commitment. Not better or worse, but built on a different foundation.

One of my best qualities is that I don't judge. My favorite saying is that this universe is too big for my point of view to be the only right one. I admire the courage that it takes to stand by a point of view that isn't popular. I wish you the best and thank you for an enlightening essay.

Well written piece

Actually it's outstanding, well written and well argued. I never thought I'd read something this knowledgeable on this site.

thank you joe!

Your essay was extremely well thought out and profound! Thanks for clearing up many of the misconceptions and stereotypes and briefly explaining, "the lifestyle".

Well said

Reason will never trump emotion, never has, but your essay is certainly worth the read. I'm often shocked by responses to stories and all that comes to my mind is: "Dude it's fiction. Get a life. Don't like the subject? Don't read it."

Well Said Indeed

Though I know an open/swinger type relationship isn't for me, this was very informative about the lifestyle. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. It was well thought out and executed beautifully. You certainly have a way with words.

Well Said

Good essay. First time around it was for being young and very sexual and enjoying it.

Now it would be to give my wife something that I can't.

Your on your side of the fence, stay there.....

There are so many varibles you only touched the very tip of a few, and your explainations are bias because of your own lifestyle.........lol


bill.....

Let me sum it up - the author is a decadent emotionally crippled nihilist who never experienced true and deep love, has no values, and loves it. But one thing is right: Your girl is better off with other men.

I support Swingerjoe

I completely agree with the author, his sex life (and that of his wife) is their business. Nobody knows what goes on in a marriage except those two people involved in it, much as some might like to think otherwise going by some of the comments here.

Personally, swinging is not for me. When I commit to someone, I commit totally and I expect them to commit to me in all respects, including sexual fidelity. I (unlike Swingerjoe) cannot separate sex from emotion and therefore an open relationship would not be for me. It simply wouldn't work. That fact that I have been cheated on twice in my life may or may not have a bearing on my point of view, but I can honestly say that I have never looked outside a committed relationship for sex, even when it has been offered on a plate.

Having said that, it CLEARLY works for him and his good lady, so I say more power to you both.

I don't judge. It's not my place to decide how anyone else conducts themselves within their personal lives... And even if it were my place to have an opinion, I would still keep my fucking mouth shut.

Being math minded...

Your story groupings are inaccurate and bias, they should be across the board of tens of thousands of anybodies. There should be no subgroups.....in any study group if you pick any field of interest it should be people who were in that group and not, also why the are not in it, and why they may have left it.....thus you did not cover or they did not cover everything no matter what great institution insists in it its accuracies.......bill