2004-02-04 -- haiku

and to the point. Nice job.

It’s been three years since this poem came to inspire warm warn or burn those who read it. Such is the extent of a powerful poem. I was reading some of the strong debates over it, then some of the simple words of appreciation then I had my chance to be exposed to the fire. Its simplicity is overwhelming If you are just used to the thick layers of ancient or rarely used words more obstacles for access, then the immediacy of access here can be too much, initially. I have learned something already; I will approach the fire slowly. Slowly I will learn and slowly I will get used to the increased hit. To the crowd. I am not retreating though.

With just eight words - the poem is over. Clever - impossible not to get the picture.

Excellent

Syllable count's like drawing inside the lines in a coloring book - fine for a 3 year old

But for a 33 year old, it's the concept that counts.

you make impudent, snotty noise (in no relation to my haiku, which you cannot touch--you just talk regardless).

I know you from your writings on Literotica.

No... perhaps the campfire gives you the nature reference so you call it haiku. If so I will treat it as so and ask where is the cut? The disjunction that will mark the superior haiku from the mundane. You have a statement here, perhaps if you worked with your wording some you could create some cut in your phrasing. Obviously this is something you are proud of, I think with a little work you could really make it something special.

With respect to your comment about my knowledge or lack thereof, you don't know me, you have no idea who I am or what I know about haiku. You have yet to read a haiku of mine besides what I have used as examples (often bad examples) in my articles. My articles were something I wrote for beginners and other people who know little or nothing about the art.

I have never claimed to be an expert at the art, I am a student and will remain so for the rest of my life. It is amazing, as you learn more about haiku you begin to realize how much you still have to learn. Hopefully, one day you can understand that.

jim :)

in general, of haiku, but I liked this one, could relate and that gave me an understanding I dont usually get from haiku :)

Anonymous & mojo_cat, thank you for your ignorant comments, you made me smile.

Actually, my poem is a very strong haiku, I am happy about this one. You don't even need to be a haiku specialist (that's not your main problem here, guys) to appreciate my haiku, but you do need to have poetic sensibility (yes, "sensibility" is the precise word here). Well, when you're poetically deaf, you're deaf, you can't help it, I guess.

HomerPindar, actually, I was the first to make the crisp distinction between haiku & senryu. Later others started to repeat it after me (before me they were writing long and muddy essays about the haiku/senryu difference). The difference is in humor. Haiku, if it has humor (it may or it may not), it is good-natured. Senryu always has negative humor, mean-spirited. This is why senryu tends to be weaker poetically than (good) haiku. So, now you know: if it has negative humor, and otherwise it looks like haiku, then it is senryu.

The final, modern definition of haiku, which extends the classical haiku without violating its spirit (and rather emphasizing its main trust), also belongs to me. It requires however that you know what poetry is (and only very few people do):

Haiku is a minimal poem.

"Minimal" means that you cannot cut out of it any smaller meaningful poem.

As I said, you need to know deeply what poetry is before you can know what haiku is.

Regards,

Wlodzimierz Holsztynski

PS. HomerPindar, Jim's contact with haiku is superficial so far, it's that of a journalist on a quick assignment. You can see it also from his poetry. Nevertheless, his essays about haiku have some general value for a general audience, who just want to know something general about haiku. If you are serious about poetry and haiku then you need more, you need to read & absorb something profound. wh

Hiaku is NOT 5/7/5, that is a poor translation of the japanese instruction into English.

Hiaku is an observation on nature, often eluding to ones relationship to it.

Senryu is more directly about human nature.

I'm not up enough on my japanese poetry to know which of these fits better to this poem. Maybe Jim knows :)

haiku:

5-7-5

also: cute but...nothing special.