Heteros submitting to bisexual encounters

I have noticed posts on numerous other threads dealing with bisex that straight men would submit to a bisexual encounter for the sake of their SO's pleasure. I haven't yet seen a thread dealing with this issue specifically, but being relatively new, I may have missed an earlier one. Anyways, here's a new one.

While I have no desire to suck a cock and though I haven't been there/done that, discussion of such a scenario with a certain someone over the past year has resulted in my realization that I am among that group that would submit, given the right circumstances. I think my desire to please someone I care for and trust to such a degree is stronger than any negative feeling I might have about such a situation.

An no, I am not BI. Before anyone brings up the "walks like a duck/quacks like a duck" thing, consider this: Not everything is done for ourselves. I don't see anyone that normally doesn't like to be shot with a gun but still taking a bullet to save someone else being considered suicidal rather than heroic. Granted, it's a pretty extreme comparison, but there is more kinship to that analogy than the quacking duck one. My view is that submitting to my SO's desires in such a case does not make me BI (not that a label matters to me much), if it makes her happy, that's what makes it okay - even cool.

I realize that these MMF/FFM situations may more often than not be D/s so much for the people involved, but devices used to get bi-curious people to experiment and possibly come out. That's not the issue.

My questions:

* Is this common in a D/s environment/scenario?
* Has anyone (male or female) been involved in such a senario - a D/s thing with a straight sub engaging another of the same sex?
* Did everything work out okay?
* Who craves this, who would submit and why?
* Is this an example of unreasonable pushing of limits?

Very interesting question ...

I have to give this some more thought, just didn't want to let it sit unanswered.

monster666 said:

I have noticed posts on numerous other threads dealing with bisex that straight men would submit to a bisexual encounter for the sake of their SO's pleasure. I haven't yet seen a thread dealing with this issue specifically, but being relatively new, I may have missed an earlier one. Anyways, here's a new one.

While I have no desire to suck a cock and though I haven't been there/done that, discussion of such a scenario with a certain someone over the past year has resulted in my realization that I am among that group that would submit, given the right circumstances. I think my desire to please someone I care for and trust to such a degree is stronger than any negative feeling I might have about such a situation.

An no, I am not BI. Before anyone brings up the "walks like a duck/quacks like a duck" thing, consider this: Not everything is done for ourselves. I don't see anyone that normally doesn't like to be shot with a gun but still taking a bullet to save someone else being considered suicidal rather than heroic. Granted, it's a pretty extreme comparison, but there is more kinship to that analogy than the quacking duck one. My view is that submitting to my SO's desires in such a case does not make me BI (not that a label matters to me much), if it makes her happy, that's what makes it okay - even cool.

I realize that these MMF/FFM situations may more often than not be D/s so much for the people involved, but devices used to get bi-curious people to experiment and possibly come out. That's not the issue.

My questions:

* Is this common in a D/s environment/scenario?
* Has anyone (male or female) been involved in such a senario - a D/s thing with a straight sub engaging another of the same sex?
* Did everything work out okay?
* Who craves this, who would submit and why?
* Is this an example of unreasonable pushing of limits?

Click to expand...

I have seen other Dom/mes approach this subject, but I have not. I am not big on sharing. If the bi "forced" encounter is a hard limit for my sub, then it is out of the question.

Ebony

It is very common for male Doms to expect their female submissives to engage in bisexual activities. I don't think it is as common with FemDoms and male subs.
Personally, I'm bisexual to begin with, but I can always pretend I'm being forced. heehee

I'm going to ask a question that may raise some hackles:

Does it *matter* whether you're bi or hetero?

It seems to me, if bisexual encounters aren't a hard limit, then you're willing to engage in bisexuality. Whether or not you personally identify with the label "bisexual" really has no effect on whether or not you can (or do) participate in same-sex behaviors.

As to MDoms expecting bisexuality from women but FDoms not doing so...well, that's a whole different question isn't it? Women, socio-culturally speaking, can engage in bisexual encounters without facing the social stigma that gay and bi-identified men face. It's bullshit, but there it is. Yet another way that lesbian-chic rears its ugly head.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all just have the freakin' sex that we want to have, without needing to assign labels to it?

Hey, don't laugh. Everybody's got a dream.

Ms RisiaSkye,
I agree with you 100% . I was just saying what I've seen from my own experience, not passing any judgement.

I am not a sub but in ways i wish i were.
As for the question...
I would have the same sex sex for my Dom.I love her.That's what it's all about right?
I'm not bi or bicurious.I have no wish to be with a man, but if this would make her happy then it would make me happy.
As for the title that comes along with it, who gives a shit.
Why should we care what other people think.
Being a man means making sacrifices.
Just an oppinion from another man.
(nonhomophobic)
I really didn't want to answer this thread.
But if your a sub don't you want to do anything to please your Dom and make her happy?

EvilBrat74 said:

But if your a sub don't you want to do anything to please your Dom and make her happy?

Click to expand...

Others have already said what is in my mind about this, and with astounding elegance and economy of words, too. I do, however, have a comment with regard to the question above.

Anything is a big word. I don't think i've ever said or felt that i would do anything to please my Dom/me. I have limits. We all have limits. Even those who so earnestly proclaim themselves limit-free, a species of sub found mostly in chat rooms, in my experience, have limits. (The next time you're faced with such an assertion, just ask if they'd kill themselves to please their Dom/me. That'll shut them up.)

I want to please my Dom/me, make no mistake about it. but inside my relationship to him/her, i'm always still me. I have fears and needs and anxieties that must be met within the skin of my relationship or, well, it simply doesn't work.

I don't think i'll ever claim that i'd do *anything* to please my Dominant; some things will remain (forever?) on the other side of my "willing to do" line. We call those things hard limits, as likely you know, and any Dominant worth the title will respect them. In part, i see the function of limits as channels of discussion with regard to the sexual and emotional needs of the partners within the relationship.

(P.S. I'm fully bisexual. The opening scenario isn't one i'd have any problem with.)

I have no reference point on this subject except my own experience which does not include being involved in the BDSM world. I will say this. If the sub is truely repulsed by the thought of a homoerotic encounter and goes through with one to please the Dom they are great risk for psychologic damage and deep pain. I think every relationship needs limits formed around the needs and desires of those involved. True coersion should not be a part of any relationship. Underlying all, there must be willingness.

I have been in situations where a pandora's box of troubles have been opened because I did things that my partner thought he wanted me to do. Once done, he wanted to put me back into the bottle in which I had previously voluntarily entered. The marriage ended due in part to his hypocracy. I guess all I am saying is caution should be exercised in this area.

From a Switch's point of view.

Being a Switch, I thought I might give my point of view.

As one should know, a SUB is the true Master in a D/s relationship. For if the SUB can't/doesn't want to handle it, then it doesn't happen. PERIOD. Anything else would be wrong.

Now, would I do it? Yes. Why? I enjoy pleasing my lover. If my lover would find it erotic, then, I would be on my knees sucking the cock!

Am I bi? Nope. I prefer ladies. But once again, would it please my lover?

I know I find it erotic to think of my lover eating pussy, so, why shouldn't I reciprocate?

Just my point of view though.

Goddess Bless!

Re: From a Switch's point of view.

Coven911 said:

Being a Switch, I thought I might give my point of view.

As one should know, a SUB is the true Master in a D/s relationship. For if the SUB can't/doesn't want to handle it, then it doesn't happen. PERIOD. Anything else would be wrong.

Now, would I do it? Yes. Why? I enjoy pleasing my lover. If my lover would find it erotic, then, I would be on my knees sucking the cock!

Am I bi? Nope. I prefer ladies. But once again, would it please my lover?

I know I find it erotic to think of my lover eating pussy, so, why shouldn't I reciprocate?

Just my point of view though.

Goddess Bless!

Click to expand...

I guess that sums up how I feel about it. But I am still wondering how common such a thing is among straight subs, particularly
male. As cym said, it's no big deal for someone who is BI.

I was asked if i would consider a bisexual encounter, and after some serious thinking my answer was No. The part of me that wanted to please him was in serious battle with the part that knew it would be totally wrong for me. The wrongness for me based completely on my needs and feelings in a relationship.

The reasons for fewer male subs engaging in bisexual relationships for their Domme are probably as varied as the people involved.


cym, thanks again for the reminder about limits.

I have read this thread over twice now... and still have a lot of unanswered questions... Having always defined myself within the confines of heterosexual, I find that definition being recently challenged...

Would I do it, be with another woman to please Himself? Well, yes, but only because it is something that I want as well...

But I have to agree with morninggirl5, if it were not something that I wanted to experience, it would never happen... and Himself is as aware of that as I am...

As to limits, yes I have them, but they are changing and evolving... although there are some limits that I have that I don't think will change at all....

I think if it's something you want for yourself as well, it's not submission so much. I don't know if others feel the same way about it. The point is, I'd never want an encounter with a man for myself, but for her - it would be okay. It's about what does it for her.

cellis said:

I have read this thread over twice now... and still have a lot of unanswered questions... Having always defined myself within the confines of heterosexual, I find that definition being recently challenged...

Would I do it, be with another woman to please Himself? Well, yes, but only because it is something that I want as well...

But I have to agree with morninggirl5, if it were not something that I wanted to experience, it would never happen... and Himself is as aware of that as I am...

As to limits, yes I have them, but they are changing and evolving... although there are some limits that I have that I don't think will change at all....

Click to expand...

monster666 said:

I think if it's something you want for yourself as well, it's not submission so much. I don't know if others feel the same way about it. The point is, I'd never want an encounter with a man for myself, but for her - it would be okay. It's about what does it for her.

Click to expand...

You miss my point, monster. I have limits and Himself respects those limits, as he respects me. The first time he mentioned a ball gag, I almost passed out from anxiety. At that time, he recognized that was a limit with me, we discussed it, and agreed that was a limit for me and he could respect it.

It is all about negotiation, he brings his needs and I bring mine... My submission is a gift I give to him. He recognizes this and cherishes it.

monster666 said:

I think if it's something you want for yourself as well, it's not submission so much. I don't know if others feel the same way about it. The point is, I'd never want an encounter with a man for myself, but for her - it would be okay. It's about what does it for her.

Click to expand...

I think my point got lost somewhere. My natural inclination would be to submit to the encounter because HE wants it, but because we've discussed it and i was able to honestly say, this would cause problems for me, he won't ask it of me.

Submission has to include a healthy dose of self-preservation, a lesson i'm beginning to learn. Making your Dom/me happy and submitting to what they want does no good if there's no joy or pleasure in it for you. Submitting to something that is wrong for you isn't true submission.

morninggirl5 said:

I think my point got lost somewhere. My natural inclination would be to submit to the encounter because HE wants it, but because we've discussed it and i was able to honestly say, this would cause problems for me, he won't ask it of me.

Submission has to include a healthy dose of self-preservation, a lesson i'm beginning to learn. Making your Dom/me happy and submitting to what they want does no good if there's no joy or pleasure in it for you. Submitting to something that is wrong for you isn't true submission.

Click to expand...

I don't think I missed your point. Everyone has limits, and I understand your point about yours. A hard limit is a hard limit. However, not everything you might not want for yourself would be a hard limit, would it?

I can think of a lot of things what are hard limits myself. But just because I am not into something doesn't mean I won't do it. If it's simply not appealing, that's one thing. Something I have a special aversion to is something else - that's going to end up in the hard limit category.

It's important, i think, for us to clearly differentiate between hard and soft limits.

A hard limit, in my mind, is one that you just cannot do. You will not do it. To be coerced into doing it would shatter your soul in some way.

Conversely, a soft limit is often something you don't know much about, something that doesn't sound erotic or appealing, something you wouldn't choose on your own.

The difference is enormous.

Scat play is a hard limit for me.
Bastinados are a soft limit.
I don't want to do either of them, thanks - but there's a big difference in just how firmly i don't want to do them.

I will not do the former.

I might do the latter if someone new to me wants to experiment with it (after i know them well, after i trust them, after i see and hear and touch the intrument that will be used on me, after i read more, after i educate myself on the dangers, etc, etc, etc.)

I know i cannot do the former without some lasting repercussions inside my head. I don't know much about the latter, and it sure as hell doesn't sound erotic at all to me, but with the right Dominant, i might do it.

See?

For some of us, same-sex encounters would be hard limits.
For some they are soft limits.
For some, they are the stuff of fantasies.
For some, they are part and parcel of what we already do.

We're all different.

If we know our limits, hard and soft, and we communicate them to our Dominants, and if our Dominants respect us, they'll have no choice but to respect our limits.

That doesn't mean they won't try to push us on those soft limits. It doesn't mean we won't be talking with them often, revealuating where those limits are. That's what they do, they push us. And we get pushed, we submissives. We both, dom/me and sub, benefit from such forward progression in our care and trust and openness with each other, too.

But they won't (shouldn't) push us so hard, so fast, so carelessly, that we lose our way and get lost in the pain and fear and awkwardness and embarassment. Such is then a violation of all they owe us - and a violation, too, of the truth we owe them.

We have to be able to say clearly: i cannot do that because...

They have to be able to nod and smile and look elsewhere for a place to push.

And in the middle of it is always masive amounts of talking to each other, right?

Hard limits, and soft limits..........I like the sound of that.
Thanks!
That's the best way i've ever heard it described.
I'll probably even use those terms in the future.

Hard and soft limits

The terms are in common usage within BDSM circles; i didn't make them (or the concept) up.

On those Needs/Desires/Fears forms we're always talking about here (here's one: http://ms.ha.md.us/~tammad/over21/bondage/sub-checklist.html), even the directions say that NO is a hard limit and 0 is a soft limit. (Personally, i consider both 0 and 1 answers to be way inside the soft limit arena, but that's just me.)

A hard limit is something that you will not do under any circumstances. There's a group of "usuals" that many very experienced people flip off with a smile when asked. They most often include: no children, no animals, no scat play, no permanant marks.

A soft limit is something that you utterly no desire to do, may loathe doing, and would ordinarily object to doing, but something you might agree to do for your Dominant if they really wanted it. There is no group of "usuals" for soft limits because this is a place that highly individualized.

In any case, your Dominant (if they're worth the title) will recogize all your limits, soft and hard, as places of fear and hurt for you and treat you tenderly with regard to going there.

I was always pretty sure I was straight, but several recent events are causing me to rethink this. For that very reason, homosexual sex of any sort would probably go on my 'Hard Limits' list, right next to scat, urine and fire play. Brings to mind a tangential question:

If you can forsee a circumstance where your 'Hard Limit' isn't going to be a barrier for you anymore, is it a 'Hard Limit'? Or a colossally strong 'Soft Limit'?

re: soft limits

A number of people have posted that there are things they would never be interested in doing and would only do them to please their Dom/me. As a domme, I'd have a problem asking my sub to do anything simply for my pleasure when I knew he wasn't getting anything (else) out of it. Maybe that's just because I love him lots.



Lain

SpectreT said:

If you can forsee a circumstance where your 'Hard Limit' isn't going to be a barrier for you anymore, is it a 'Hard Limit'? Or a colossally strong 'Soft Limit'?

Click to expand...

It's a hard limit if it's an absolute unequivocable "NO".

It's a soft limit if there's a shred of "maybe" in there someplace.

You need to talk often and honestly with your Dom/me so s/he knows where your head is with regard to your limits, among other stuff.

Thanks, cym.

I always feel a little better when another layer of ignorance (mine)is shed. Makes me feel like I'm fulfilling my mission in this world.

Re: re: soft limits

Lain said:

A number of people have posted that there are things they would never be interested in doing and would only do them to please their Dom/me. As a domme, I'd have a problem asking my sub to do anything simply for my pleasure when I knew he wasn't getting anything (else) out of it. Maybe that's just because I love him lots.



Lain

Click to expand...

What complicates matters is that many submissives get a larger sense of fulfillment in doing things they don't want to do, in order to please their dominants. They might be unhappy while performing the particular task, or undergoing the ordeal, but having done so, the knowledge that they overcame their own objections to please their dominant can be so satisfying that they acheive great satisfaction.