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Punishment vs. Discipline

MissTaken

MissTaken

Biker Chick
Joined
Jun 30, 2001
Posts
20,570
I have found that this area of discussion varies greatly from person to person.

Parenting experts have filled bookshelves with their viewpoints with regard to parenting children.

Now, I am curious to see what viewpoints we have on the board with regard to D/s.
 
MissTaken said:
I have found that this area of discussion varies greatly from person to person.

Parenting experts have filled bookshelves with their viewpoints with regard to parenting children.

Now, I am curious to see what viewpoints we have on the board with regard to D/s.
Click to expand...

I use to have a soild answer......
Now I have none...

Hopefully someone will come here and explain to us
 
MissTaken said:
I have found that this area of discussion varies greatly from person to person.

Parenting experts have filled bookshelves with their viewpoints with regard to parenting children.

Now, I am curious to see what viewpoints we have on the board with regard to D/s.
Click to expand...

A tough distinction to make, but I will throw a few thoughts out and see how they float. Punishmwnt is always rooted in a negative, somebody is punished for doing something wrong. But discipline is positive, something that is a good attribute by itself. Everyone should be disciplined, but not everyone should be punished.
As far as BDSM relationships go, it seems to me that accepting someone else's right to discipline you, or your right to do so to them, is acceptable because it implies a continuity of relationship. But punishment does not. Let me see if I can make that plain with an example, because I'm a little murky myself.
If I am given a regular chore to do by a dominant,and fail to do so, and they discipline me, it is not just a payback for not doing it the first time, but also meant to make sure I remember to do it the next time, so the end result is positive.
On the other hand, punishment , I think, doesnt carry that same idea of growth, it's just about retribution for what I may have done wrong.
 
:kiss:

As i've always understood it:

discipline is training - mental and/or moral training; training of obedience to rules.
punishment is what happens when you don't follow the rules; a penalty for disobedience.

for example in child raising... although spanking a child is a last resort, you don't spank a child before they run into the street. You discipline them to not run into the street, but you punish them for their disobediece when they do run into the street. (Of course then you thank your lucky stars that you live on a dead end street which no one travels.)

i've never heard of anyone being sent to prison as a discipline, only as a punishment for a crime already committed.

It's relatively the same in 'this world'.

:kiss:
 
I have talked with Doms on line who make a point of saying, "I like to punish."

For some, they mean that they enjoy administering spankings or whatever their preferred punishment is when the Dom and sub are in role. Thereby, both benefit and get what they like.

For others, and these are the Doms who frighten me, they would use spanking etc. if the sub truly made them angry or frustrated. If dinner was burned or the sub said something hurtful, she would recieve a spank or the whip. (I have a real problem with this and generally hit the ignore button.)

Punishment: It is negative approach, an act or consequence for wrong doing, the purpose of which if vengeance.

Discipline: An act or consequence for wrong doing, the purpose of which is helping the perpetrator of wrong doing to learn to manage their own behavior and grow.

A parent who spanks a child out of anger or frustration is punishing the child and is often not in a mind set to teach. A parent who uses the taking of a privilege accompanied by a discussion about why that privilege has been lost is using discipline. That the child remembers his wrong doing everytime he asks to ride his bike and is told "no" is a key factor.

Yes, is many ways, D/s replicates a parent/child relationship at time. Oops....better gallavant to the other thread and throw together some thoughts concerning "What is D/s?" :)
 
Punishment and discipline overlap in a grey area. These terms can also be relative as to different D/s relationships.
Punishment can be a penalty for doing a wrong while discipline can occur without the presence of mistakes. Discipline can, simply, be a means used to train. Both can involve physical, mental, or sexual acts to invoke the Dom/me's desired effect.
Great topic! :)
 
Yes, raindancer...

A great point: discipline without an wrongdoing.

Example: Having always been a gal who wore sneakers or "flats" when dressing up, I was directed to wear heels at every possible opportunity. (My work doesn't allow for heels)

I started in low heels, two inches, i believe. I wore them around the house, out to the grocery, or wherever else.

I learned to be comfortable in them all day and then moved up.

And now am comfortable in four inch heels and was thrilled the first time I wore them for an entire day.

And an additional note: when the shoes became uncomfortable, it reminded me of Him, and why I was doing this....
 
Exactly, MissTaken! That's a great example. :)

It's not all about whips and chains.
Though I don't mind those either. Heh.:D
 
raindancer said:
Punishment and discipline overlap in a grey area. These terms can also be relative as to different D/s relationships.
Punishment can be a penalty for doing a wrong while discipline can occur without the presence of mistakes. Discipline can, simply, be a means used to train. Both can involve physical, mental, or sexual acts to invoke the Dom/me's desired effect.
Great topic! :)
Click to expand...

Discipline can also be something positive

If I know that my submissive (happy Miss Taken) likes to be spanked....than I will not use it to show my disfavor.....
 
Yes, of course- within training, positive reinforcement needs to be present. Discipline is often viewed with negative connotation. It must be present where control is an issue- I think.
 
MissTaken said:
Yes, is many ways, D/s replicates a parent/child relationship at time. Oops....better gallavant to the other thread and throw together some thoughts concerning "What is D/s?" :)
Click to expand...

Please do.......
It would please me....
 
What most be present?

raindancer said:
Yes, of course- within training, positive reinforcement needs to be present. Discipline is often viewed with negative connotation. It must be present where control is an issue- I think.
Click to expand...
 
Richard49 said:


Discipline can also be something positive

If I know that my submissive (happy Miss Taken) likes to be spanked....than I will not use it to show my disfavor.....
Click to expand...

*smirks* Thanks for not using "subbie"!

I have said before to these Doms who say they like to spank their sub to punish, if you truly want to change a behavior, why spank...especially if she likes it?

Of course, some rather enjoy the bratty ass sub during the scene so that it leads to recreational spanking....mmmm

And Richard, your sub will be a fortunate lady. Good luck, friend! :)
 
Discipline must be present where control is a facet of any relationship.
 
The difference

I see on this thread that (naturally) there are lots of opinions and thoughts. To me, punishment is when the Master is displeased with the sub . . discipline is when the sub needs it in order to become more fulfilled and is desirious of her need and lets the Master know overtly and subtly when she needs it.
 
How do some of our Dom/mes punish their subs?

In my last relationship, if I had truly displeased my Dom, He would alienate Himself from me for a bit, knowing that that would have the greatest impact.

I also would be interested in hearing about examples of discipline.
 
MissTaken said:
How do some of our Dom/mes punish their subs?

In my last relationship, if I had truly displeased my Dom, He would alienate Himself from me for a bit, knowing that that would have the greatest impact.

I also would be interested in hearing about examples of discipline.
Click to expand...

Alienating/steping away is one i used often......

However 24/7 relationships can be much more complex
 
MissTaken said:
How do some of our Dom/mes punish their subs?

In my last relationship, if I had truly displeased my Dom, He would alienate Himself from me for a bit, knowing that that would have the greatest impact.

I also would be interested in hearing about examples of discipline.
Click to expand...

Physical punishment doesn't really make sense to me, because either, as you've noted, the submissive enjoys it, or because if they don't enjoy it that is possibly for a very good reason, such as abuse issues in their past, in which case it is obviously inappropriate. As a submisive, I've been subjected to, "punishment" that I did not enjoy as it was being administered, but eroticized in rememberance.
Withholding of attention is the most effective punishmen I've used in situation where I was dominant. Sort of like when you give a child a time out. "Go sit in your room and think about what you did wrong" is very effective. It is the fact that the person they most want to please is unhappy with them that makes most submissives feel chastised.
The mian thing, I think is that any punishment used must be not only consented to, but consented to ungrudgingly, because when the submissive resents the punishment, it is an easy step to questioning the right of the dominant to exert discipline at all, which as Raindancer points out, is essential in a DS relationship.
 
James Blandings said:


The mian thing, I think is that any punishment used must be not only consented to, but consented to ungrudgingly, because when the submissive resents the punishment, it is an easy step to questioning the right of the dominant to exert discipline at all, which as Raindancer points out, is essential in a DS relationship.
Click to expand...

Yes, I have to agree with "consentual" punishment. While we are involved in relationships of different dynamics than most, we are still adults. And, whereby a child can hate a punishment and still be expected to provide unconditional love, said punishment could drive a wedge in the structure of a D/s relationship.

The other thing that works with me, is the "tone." Whether it is used to show disappointment or sometimes to be insistent~ as I sometimes clam up~ that certain tone of voice is rather effective. I wouldnt' call it "punishment", rather, it is a great tool for discipline.
 
"consentual" punishment

MissTaken said:


Yes, I have to agree with "consentual" punishment. While we are involved in relationships of different dynamics than most, we are still adults. And, whereby a child can hate a punishment and still be expected to provide unconditional love, said punishment could drive a wedge in the structure of a D/s relationship.

The other thing that works with me, is the "tone." Whether it is used to show disappointment or sometimes to be insistent~ as I sometimes clam up~ that certain tone of voice is rather effective. I wouldnt' call it "punishment", rather, it is a great tool for discipline.
Click to expand...

Tone is a good one....I hope that does require before hand concent

This takes us to a new thread I have started
What is the D/s contract
I hope We all can handle that thread also

BTW I think tone can also show pleasure whic is another part of the discipline
 
Attitude

Attitude and tone go hand in hand *smile* for both people. Is the tone what the sub needs? Is the attitude one that will work for both people? Finally, the tone that is set will decide if the experience is a success for both people.
 
ooops

Richard49 said:


Tone is a good one....I hope that does require before hand concent
Click to expand...

That line should have read
I hope that does NOT require before hand concent
 
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