What is a D/s contract?

This may seem like a dumb question coming from someone who has been "in the lifestyle" longer than many of you have been on this earth........

However in many ways having had the same sub for over 13 years....to come here....and read ... a whole new vocabulary...to read the changes in so many things.....well that all is for another post or thread

My question is......

1) what is a D/s contract
2) what should be in it

Damn I feel stupid posting this question.....

cym...Miss Taken bail me out

Consider yourself bailed!

It is a good question, especially for someone such as myself. I look forward to the responses.

What sorts of things should be negotiated?

Is a contract necessarily a written instrument? What purpose does a signed contract serve?

For me, to date, I have not and would not consider a written contract, but realize that the careful negotiations occuring early on the in the relationship hold contractual merit.

Thoughts? Advice? Suggestions?

written?

MissTaken said:

Consider yourself bailed!


Thoughts? Advice? Suggestions?

Click to expand...

Thank you

In the old days [damn I am feeling old in this discussion]
There was little that was open to discusion......

you were or you were not
However Doms were well trained before they were let "lose"

A submissive [thank me Miss Taken]
gave herself fully but was able to keeep her pride...her core
A dom treated his submissive as the most valuanle piece of property he owned

Physical pain was used as to punish for major infractions when other methods did not work to creat change
Pain was also used when the submissive enjoyed it as a reward

Ok.....I'll take the cotton out of my ears and put it in my mouth and listen to the way things are now.....

oooops
I need to respond to the in wrting part.....if it is not in writing...what do you do when one of you say...."I dod not agree to that...."

I have had only one relationship wherein the Dominant wanted a written contract. I had to do a bunch of reading about them, though, and write one that suited both of us before the task was finished, so i learned a bit oin the doing.

We talked about this in the Mother thread early on. I've dug it out so we can see it again (page 2, from 7/21):

Aussie Worm said:

Just a few questions from some one who is pretty new to this.

How important is a contract and how detailed should it be? My mistress, or owner as I must refer to her likes details and everything spelled out. Does it really matter as long as you have the important things like what each other will do, how long the contract will last and a safe-word and its conditions of use?

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cymbidia said:

In all my years of doing this, i've only subbed once to someone who required a written contract. His insistence on a contract was, in large part, a way of insuring that we both knew what we would be doing and acepted everything that would be between us. He required that i research and develop the contract from scratch; he didn't have one ready for me to sign. Over my weeks of that contract R & D, he and i had *numerous* discussions about our expectations with regard to what would be. That, i think, was the most of the point of the excercise.

I don't think i still have a copy a contract in my files somewhere. If i do, though, i'll delete all personal stuff and post it here, if you think it would be of benefit.

With everything spelled out, each of you knows what to expect. Dom/mes have such an awesome responsibility for us, i wonder that more of them don't want a contract, to be honest. It can be argued - successfully - that they are unenforceable from a legal perspective since, at best, they are but a formalized, written guideline and agreement to the kinda stuff we all talk about before we play anyway (or **should** talk about before we play). At worst, contracts can implicate the Dom/me in activities that may still be illegal in your area.

Note: There have been US court cases in the last 10 years wherein BDSM contracts were used to try to prove abuse. Consensuality notwithstanding, in some parts of the US even anal intercourse is still illegal. The days are not long past in which almost everything we do together as fully sexual D/s partners and consenting adults was also illegal and had to be carefully hidden from nilla society.

Anyway, to paraphrase your words, does the contract really matter as long as you feel safe with her, have a safe word, and know when and how to use it? If the contract gives your Dom/me some peace of mind in some way, why not? At the very least, it's a harmless, painless way to help you both more fully understand the limits between you, is is not?

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Hecate said:

Contracts:
Nope, I don't need them, and none of the people I was involved with ever insisted on one or even suggested that. But if I had the feeling a potential sub would feel comfortable having limits and regulations pinned down "black on white" I would sure have no problem "using" that means of getting what I want and need - the full trust and the consent of the sub to what is going to transpire. Maybe I am overestimating my "famale perception" here but I felt always quite comfortable just by discussions and observations to know what would clearly be overstepping any possible limits of the relation - and there are always savewords (written contract or not) and love and caring to guide me in whatever I may be doing.

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Contracts and creativity

.

Contracts are a good idea--particularly with someone you're still getting to know, someone to whom you're not yet committed for the long haul. A written document makes everything concrete--something you can see and touch that tells you both where the boundaries are, at least until you know each other well enough to let those boundaries become more fluid. However, I don't think that a contract has to be a written document. I don't know that the "new" BDSM world is really so different from the one Richard knows/remembers.

Every time you discuss limits, fantasies, fears, desires, and expectations, you're negotiating your contract.

Every time you set a safe-word or gesture, plan after-care, push someone's limits/have your limits pushed, or shop for a new toy together, you're both negotiating and upholding your contract.

Every time you receive or bestow the collar, you're acknowledging your contractual obligations to each other; you're signing the contract.

Then again, what do I know?(Answer: remarkably little. I've asked around. )

What's in it?

I wish to thank all that have posted.......

You each have added to the thread and your thoughts are wonderful.........

In the world I was trained in .....a safe word and hard limits were about it....and...they were not called that......

I am even having to learn a new vocabulary.....however I have still not learned to spell or type <grin>

Yes a contract can be written or verbal....that is "common law" <smile>......

What I have just went through I see a written one helping people remember what they agreed to .....however the first rule of "survival" is never put anything in wrting......

Anyway...what items should be in the contract?

Richard49 said:

This may seem like a dumb question coming from someone who has been "in the lifestyle" longer than many of you have been on this earth........

However in many ways having had the same sub for over 13 years....to come here....and read ... a whole new vocabulary...to read the changes in so many things.....well that all is for another post or thread

My question is......

1) what is a D/s contract
2) what should be in it

Damn I feel stupid posting this question.....

cym...Miss Taken bail me out

Click to expand...

Hi Richard,
Of the contracts, that I've seen thus
far.... it usaully contains both of your expect-
ations to the B/s relationship....
Or sometimes a relationship has 2
different contracts, one for Dome and one
for the sub.....
I belive they should have clauses in
them for exceptions , because sometimes
circumstances change.....the whole situation,
or specific scene that's expected....
I also believe safewords should be a
part of this contract....
And that a clause should be added that
contract is option for update changes...as you
both explore this exciting....but ever changing
life style...because if you study this indepth
life style.....it can take on many new dimensions.
lexy

RisiaSkye said:

Contracts are a good idea--particularly with someone you're still getting to know, someone to whom you're not yet committed for the long haul. A written document makes everything concrete--something you can see and touch that tells you both where the boundaries are, at least until you know each other well enough to let those boundaries become more fluid. However, I don't think that a contract has to be a written document. I don't know that the "new" BDSM world is really so different from the one Richard knows/remembers.

Every time you discuss limits, fantasies, fears, desires, and expectations, you're negotiating your contract.

Every time you set a safe-word or gesture, plan after-care, push someone's limits/have your limits pushed, or shop for a new toy together, you're both negotiating and upholding your contract.

Every time you receive or bestow the collar, you're acknowledging your contractual obligations to each other; you're signing the contract.

Then again, what do I know?(Answer: remarkably little. I've asked around. )

Click to expand...

Hi Risia....
very good information and all very
true... have a good day..... lexy

Excellent answer!

RisiaSkye said:

Contracts are a good idea--particularly with someone you're still getting to know, someone to whom you're not yet committed for the long haul. A written document makes everything concrete--something you can see and touch that tells you both where the boundaries are, at least until you know each other well enough to let those boundaries become more fluid. However, I don't think that a contract has to be a written document. I don't know that the "new" BDSM world is really so different from the one Richard knows/remembers.

Every time you discuss limits, fantasies, fears, desires, and expectations, you're negotiating your contract.

Every time you set a safe-word or gesture, plan after-care, push someone's limits/have your limits pushed, or shop for a new toy together, you're both negotiating and upholding your contract.

Every time you receive or bestow the collar, you're acknowledging your contractual obligations to each other; you're signing the contract.

Then again, what do I know?(Answer: remarkably little. I've asked around. )

Click to expand...

I think your reply is brilliant!

I believe in them, but I do not use them with my part-time boys, except to help me cover all te topics I think are necessary. I would not hesitate to use one for a 24/7 relationship, especially at the beginning. I also beleive in leaving room for spontenaity and flexibility.

That means there always will be room to re-negotiate. After all, I am a woman as well as dominant, and I reserve my right to change my mind. I also believe in extending the same right (with a few exceptions) to my submissive.

Ebony

Spontaneity

.

While my one experience with contracts was valuable if only because i'd never done one before, i'm not sure i'd welcome a second opportunity to write one. It's true that the time it took me to research and develop the contract was mutually beneficial from the standpoint of our discussing *everything* in minute detail. Today, however, i'd rather do so in a less structured manner utilizing the same discussions but without the goal of producing an actual document to be signed by us both.

Here are some links to info on BDSM contracts, for general interest:

Ds Kiosk: Contracts
http://www.cuffs.com/kinkylinks/Contracts_BDSM/

Sexuality.org: Sample Contracts
http://www.sexuality.org/l/bdsm/slavecon.html

BDSM circle, D/s Lifestyle: Example contracts
http://www.bdsmcircle.net/dslifestyle/contracts.htm


Finally, here's an appropriate bit snipped from
http://gloria-brame.com/domidea/rumpoule.htm - Gloria Brame's site, the portion entitled BDSMD/s and the Law. (I think anyone who is contemplating doing this for real ought to read this article before beginning any play. It ought to be required reading for BDSM perverts, IMO.)

"Master-Slave Contracts.

Master/Slave contracts are not binding.

They do serve other good purposes however in the same way that a well-drafted waiver does. That is to say, to show the knowledge, intent, and state of mind of the parties at the time the contract is signed. Such contracts can be used to show what the parties agreed to and that they were aware of certain risks. They can spell out the promises that have been made, and not made, with regard to property just like a pre-nuptial agreement.

The parties might also want to have witnesses who would be willing to come to court and testify about the circumstances of the signing and/or ceremony to establish that the agreement was entered into voluntarily, consensually, and without coercion or force."