Help me! Curious and poised on the brink...

Help me! Curious and poised on the brink...
Hello everyone,
I've been enjoying dipping in and out of the BDSM threads for a while now, since I discovered the community side of lit...
I've never done any real BDSM play, though looking back on various experiences, with one particular guy, I can see elements of it there.
That's why I'm here really - this one guy. I met him last October and he's a lot older than me (50 to my 25) and he's quite dominating. I've always been very much of the thinking that whoever I sleep with must treat me gently and considerately, otherwise they don't deserve to have me. With him, this got challenged. And I resisted him a lot! But as time went by I've realised that he reaches inside of me to the extent that I'm willing to submit to him if that is what is necessary to keep him engaging with me. (Now, this is my understanding that this is the core of most/some dom/sub relationships - correct me if I'm wrong!)
When I started to have an inkling that he might be 'dominant', I started to read the BDSM stories in lit, and think about how I felt about it. Most of them are pretty cheesy but a few of them went into the psychological aspects in a more sensitive (and to my mind) realistic way, and were quite informative. I thought more about it, and began to develop concepts of what dominance and submission meant (before, like most people, I just thought in terms of pain, whips, chains etc.).
I brought up the subject with my exboyfriend (who is very very gentle and considerate), and we talked about whether I really liked submission or not, and what we thought about the whole thing. And this brings me to my point (see! I do have one even though obviously i AM just enjoying telling my story):

I was discussing with my ex (who has no experience of BDSM), what is behind the submissive urge? what is behind the dominant urge?
And I decided that, while I am not masochistic in the slightest, and get pretty pissed off if someone hurts me, I don't mind being restrained, or controlled, and that *just in the particular case of this guy* it kind of excited me that he was dominating. It made me feel the strength of his desire for me, and I felt he was kind of wonderful so I wanted him to desire me really strongly and I wanted to please him.


And I also discussed the element of my submission that is kind of inside out - I submit because it gives me power - I think I've 'played' submissive with some guys before cos it made them so excited and thereby gave me power over them. This is not the same as it is with my older guy - there, the submission is 'real' and not a game (or at least, it could be starting to be real, though it certainly wasn't until we built a relationship to the point that he got under my skin). This raises one question - is this the way it is for other 'subs' - and is it common that one feels submissive towards one particular person only, and not submissive in general (as I feel)????

The other question was to do with the discussion of what is behind the dominant urge. At the time, I remember commenting to my ex that perhaps guys fear the power that women have over them (in commanding their desire, and the ability to withhold the satisfaction of that desire), and one way of dealing with this fear of women, and *particularly* fear of losing one's self control (and thereby, dignity) in the sexual act, is to control and denigrate the woman, thereby taking away her power, and retaining one’s own. This was an opinion I formed BEFORE exposure to any BDSM literature or chat, and now I am curious to find out what you guys think... Particularly any dom/mes: how do you understand your urges? Please help me to understand the other side of this new way of relating from HIS point of view. (Don’t be angry with me for perhaps being completely wrong in what I used to think!!) I used to find it really incomprehensible why anyone would want to hurt or control someone they loved and cared for, and while this anxiety got pushed aside as my feelings for the guy (let’s call him Mr. J) grew, I guess it is still there.

Just as an endnote:
the guy in question and I are no longer able to see eachother at the moment, mainly because he is not well, and doesn't really have the strength for a relationship/sex. This is a very sad for me, but we’re still very close, and I feel sure that our relationship is not over. I don't know whether he has ever done any BDSM but I plan to ask him next time I see him! I think, now that I am not so naive having frequented some of these BDSM threads, that he may well have done. I think he dropped a lot of hints that I didn't really know how to respond to at the time, I felt embarrassed or anxious about them, or laughed them off, or ignored them (though I did begin to stop protesting so much at his roughness). But he’s so incredible when he touches me that I was able to keep on seeing him despite this…and this is how my feelings changed, I guess.

He told me he wanted to rip my tights off and tie me up with them; that he visualised me tangled in a thorn bush, unable to move, and unable to stop him doing what he wanted to me; he used to hold me down quite hard when we had sex, and held me around my neck/throat (until I protested and told him not to!); he used to tread on my feet as well, and told me once when I said I was feeling guilty about something (and suggested myself that I should wear sack cloth and ashes, as a joke) that I should tie my breasts up with rope so that they got all squashed out of shape ( I was pretty shocked by that, and said it was worrying - looking back on it, he probably thought I was dropping hints myself.....and maybe I was!!!!but didnt' realise it/admit it to myself) and wear a buttplug. The last time we made love he held my hair and pushed his cock really hard into my mouth (which would usually (i.e. before him) earn a slap and my withdrawal from the situation, but….I loved it and the memory makes me wet) He also said he would cane me when I said I wanted to be caned ( and unfortunately for him, i meant stoned, as in intoxicated on cannabis!!! it's an english expression). He made some joke one time about domination (and I laughed in his face!).He also withdraws his attention from me and doesn't touch me sometimes, which makes me want to please him more than anything. He never gets angry or argues or shouts, just withdraws. Looking back on all that, it seems pretty obvious to me that he's quite dom. Whaddaya think??! I think I'd kinda like to be his pet, if he promised not to hurt/damage me. Fuckin hell, who'd have thought I'd EVER have said that???!!! Hmm this whole thing is rather titillating. Anyway, what I'd like to know from you guys is your answers to my questions, and then I'll keep on growing in the understanding that has taken seed and started to sprout. Looking forward to it....
much love,
arcticfox



__________________
may all beings be happy

Hello articfox and welcome to the BDSM Forum. This is a friendly place, as you've no doubt noticed already, and all here are willing and pleased to help those with questions when and how we can.

I have to ask, though, that you take care not to post the same thing under different thread titles. For instance, your thread entitled "What's in it for the dom's?" (http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78103) which you posted about a half hour ago, is exactly the same as is this one.

Give people time to read and think and respond before asking again. We're good at that. We've all got a lot of words around here, and we're not afraid to use them - but give us a little time to get to your needs and questions, okay?

While you're waiting, you might want to peruse some of the other threads we've got going here and offer your own comments to add to those discuaaions. Whether or not you've got any real, hands-on experience isn't of overriding importance here in this place. What counts is that you listen and learn, that you're honest and caring, and that you're sincerely interested in offering pieces of yourself in the same way that you take pieces of us.

My welcome, again, to you, articfox.

cym

shit, i'm sorry

Sorry Cym, and thanks for the welcome,
God, I'm actually blushing - I feel bad. I just thought maybe my subject line wasn't that appropriate (or, ok, I'll be honest, wasn't that eyecatching and noone would be interested in reading it), and I wanted and tried to edit it on the original post and it wouldnt' let me. So I figured, just cut and paste and repost with a better subject line.

I'll delete the first one, how about that? Not sure why that didn't occur to me before.

seeyou,
arcticfox

It's me again...
I cant' delete the first one. any idea why not?
sorry to be a pain
f

arcticfox said:

I've realised that he reaches inside of me to the extent that I'm willing to submit to him if that is what is necessary to keep him engaging with me. (Now, this is my understanding that this is the core of most/some dom/sub relationships - correct me if I'm wrong!)

Click to expand...

That is not at the core of most, or even some, dom/sub relationships. You say you are "willing to submit to him if that is what is necessary", which sounds to me like he is dominant, but you are not submissive. Most of the submissives I've talked to and heard from on this discussion board view submission as something inherent within themselves. It's not something they *allow* because it's being demanded of them. It's something they want just as much as the other person wants the other side.

This is not to say it won't work between you. If his dominant tendencies are something you like about him, and you enjoy submitting to him, it could be fun for the both of you. But if it's just something you *put up with* in order to be with him, and submissiveness is not actually a part of your nature at all (or if you use it as a kind of manipulative power trip, something Dom/mes don't appreciate at all), then I doubt it will be a successful relationship.

And I decided that, while I am not masochistic in the slightest, and get pretty pissed off if someone hurts me, I don't mind being restrained, or controlled, and that *just in the particular case of this guy* it kind of excited me that he was dominating. It made me feel the strength of his desire for me, and I felt he was kind of wonderful so I wanted him to desire me really strongly and I wanted to please him.

Click to expand...

Again, your choice of words sets off alarm bells in my head -- you "don't mind", it "kind of" excited you. At first glance it looks like you're being manipulated into a power scheme that you don't really desire.

This raises one question - is this the way it is for other 'subs' - and is it common that one feels submissive towards one particular person only, and not submissive in general (as I feel)????

Click to expand...

I've heard from a number of switches that their submissive or dominant sides emerge depending on what a particular person brings out in them. But in the case of submissives or dominants, I get the impression it's a feeling one has in all of one's romantic relationships. I can't really speak to it, though (I'm only in my first dom/sub relationship now).

He told me he wanted to rip my tights off and tie me up with them; that he visualised me tangled in a thorn bush, unable to move, and unable to stop him doing what he wanted to me; he used to hold me down quite hard when we had sex, and held me around my neck/throat (until I protested and told him not to!); he used to tread on my feet as well, and told me once when I said I was feeling guilty about something (and suggested myself that I should wear sack cloth and ashes, as a joke) that I should tie my breasts up with rope so that they got all squashed out of shape ( I was pretty shocked by that, and said it was worrying - looking back on it, he probably thought I was dropping hints myself.....and maybe I was!!!!but didnt' realise it/admit it to myself) and wear a buttplug. The last time we made love he held my hair and pushed his cock really hard into my mouth (which would usually (i.e. before him) earn a slap and my withdrawal from the situation, but….I loved it and the memory makes me wet) He also said he would cane me when I said I wanted to be caned ( and unfortunately for him, i meant stoned, as in intoxicated on cannabis!!! it's an english expression).

Click to expand...

It bothers me that he has done these things to you (not the suggestions he's made, but his actions during your actual lovemaking) without discussing it with you beforehand. If he knows anything about the BDSM lifestyle, he should know the importance of communication and agreement. Before I knew anything about BDSM, if a guy had done these things to me I would have been terrified and/or offended. Again, it sounds as though he's either assuming you'll go along with the submissive stuff he wants you to do without asking you, or he's manipulating you into thinking you "owe" it to him for being in a relationship with you.

I think it's essential, if you intend to be intimate with him again, that you discuss these things with him beforehand. If he's a novice Dom, he might not know the importance of checklists and safewords and the like. If you don't insist on a discussion of boundaries, you might find yourself in a situation that you can't simply tell him to stop (like if he decides it'd be fun to gag you, for example) and he might do something you *really* don't like. If you don't get the feeling he's going to absolutely respect your boundaries and your comfort level, you should not be intimate with him.

Lain

I join in the concerns

Sometimes, believe me I know, the written word alone cannot clearly convey one's thoughts and feelings fully, so forgive me if I misread your post. As I read your post, I think your relationship threatens to cross from consensual BDSM to something more abusive and unhealthy for you. Pain and fear can certainly play a role in BDSM, but I believe they are appropriate only where the submissive one in some way craves them in order to touch parts of the sub's mind and emotion which the sub can reach in no other way. If you're not eager to consent, and your "rational" mind is saying, even screaming, "I don't like this and I don't want to do this," then I would suggest that you be careful about trying to talk yourself into it. Trust yourself. Most submissives are acting out long-held fantasies, but you seem to be being drawn into someone else's fantasies which don't hold much attraction to you.

Good luck to you, and I hope you will be happy with whatever course you choose.

arcticfox said:

I've always been very much of the thinking that whoever I sleep with must treat me gently and considerately, otherwise they don't deserve to have me. With him, this got challenged. And I resisted him a lot! But as time went by I've realised that he reaches inside of me to the extent that I'm willing to submit to him if that is what is necessary to keep him engaging with me.

Click to expand...

Most Dominants I know are generally considerate and gentle unless it's playtime. Is he normally considerate of your feelings?

Also, that you are willing to submit to him to keep him around worries me a bit. It's obvious that he excites you, I just hope that he will be good for you.

Good luck, articfox, and welcome.

Articfox's dilemma

As with the other views posted, I am concerned that you say things that amount to you doing this to keep/please him. A Dom/sub relationship is about the partners doing what pleases themselves and their parnter ie; the Dom enjoys the control and the sub enjoys the domination. That is how both achieve pleasure with in the relationship, it is a ying yang circle they need to need each other and co exist to complete the everlasting circle. (understand grasshoper ) Also his grabbing you by the throat and treading on your feet sound more like the actions of a physical bully than a Dom trying to earn trust and consent form a sub. Breath control is one of the more extreme sides of BDSM and I would not consider it suitable for a novice sub let alone someone who was still unsure about her own feelings on the subject. Anyway I shall get of my soapbox, I hope your journey is successful and gives you all that you desire what ever route you may take. No offence intended to anyone, just MO!

Re: Articfox's dilemma

Mr Wolf said:

Also his grabbing you by the throat and treading on your feet sound more like the actions of a physical bully than a Dom trying to earn trust and consent form a sub.

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Nice to hear someone mention the word 'trust'. Hmmm how about 'mutual respect'? i didn't see either of those words in Fox's story. Nor did i see the 3 basics, "Safe, Sane and CONSENSUAL". But again many of the erotic stories don't mention that, they imply it though, if you read between the lines.
Albeit, he did back off when Fox insisted, but it is the opinion of this humble slave that a needed discussion was not had. i am in agreement that this man is taking advantage of, bullying, and manipulating Fox.

Perhaps he is a novice, and doesn't know how to go about discussing his desires with you in a direct manner. Perhaps you (fox) have *some* submissive desires, but haven't fully explored or articulated them to yourself, much less anyone else.

Nonetheless, it bothers me that the only open and honest conversation you seem to have had about all of this is with someone else, an ex whom you felt you could trust. Taken in combination with everything else you've said, if I were you, I'd be unlikely to trust Mr. J--as a Dom or as a partner of any kind. At least, not to the extent one must trust their Top if they're going to relax enough to really be in the moment.

Personally, I'd say, if the experience opened a door for you, and you're rethinking your own relationship to submission, consider exploring it with someone else--someone a lot more comfortable discussing their desires, someone who respects you enough to make sure they're your desires too. The world is a big place, and he's far from the only Dom, much less the only man, in it.

You can do better.

all your replies

Oh WOOOOWWWWWWWW....
Thanks for your replies, such a lot. I really need some time to think about the issues you have all raised. Some of them seem very important, and are certainly giving me some perspective on all this. I'll get back when I've processed (but I'll try not to go overboard on the length ;-))
much appreciation
arcticfox

your replies

"Perhaps he is a novice, and doesn't know how to go about discussing his desires with you in a direct manner. Perhaps you (fox) have *some* submissive desires, but haven't fully explored or articulated them to yourself, much less anyone else. "


Risia - I think he has been testing the water over the months we've been seeing eachother, but because of my uncertain reaction, he hasn't taken it further than that, or raised things more explicitly. I think you are right that I might have *some* submissive desires, which I haven't explored and articulated.

I guess that's what I'm doing here - trying to do that. I'm really confused now after reading the reply posts - I think I *have* had some submissive fantasies in the past, but it has all got a bit obscured recently (too much lit stories = lots of different fantasies!). I feel like I'm getting the message from the replies that if I haven't *always* wanted submission with everyone I've been with then I'm not really submissive and shouldn't explore it. But from other things I've read I thought that other people found they only felt submissive with certain individuals????

fox

your replies (more thoughts)

"Albeit, he did back off when Fox insisted, but it is the opinion of this humble slave that a needed discussion was not had. i am in agreement that this man is taking advantage of, bullying, and manipulating Fox."

Dear Anonymous Slave and Mr. Wolf,

Maybe I didn't express it well. Maybe you're right, and I'm being defensive! but: he didn't really hurt me, ever. The only two times he caused me pain I slapped him and told him not to be so rough with me. He apologised. And he became more gentle with me. The last time we had sex I allowed him to see that I was happy to let him lean his weight on me and 'crush' me a bit - I relaxed and didn't fight him. I *wanted* to do this, to show him that I trusted him. It's all very subtle. He absolutely doesn't bully me. When he pushed his cock in my throat and I gagged, he said he was sorry and he'd just got carried away. When he trod on my feet it was with bare feet and he just kind of leaned on me. It didn't hurt - I just thought it might have been a clue to his tendencies. I was trying to highlight the things which might indicate his dominant side, but I missed out all the loving lovely things he's done. And we have better sex than I've had with most - he's an incredible lover and makes me feel more beautiful and sexier than practically anyone. He was always telling me that he loved me - and he also told me that I had a lot of control over him - he really really didn't try to dominate me the majority of the time, it was just the sexual thing.

I don't want to bore you all to death with the details, but I have a question which seems important: it has been stressed that these things are best discussed beforehand and carried out within proscribed 'playtime'. Does anyone else feel that they would prefer things to be a bit more blurry, a bit more 'real'? I.e. I think in a way the fact that things have not been made completely explicit between me and J is partially what is exciting for me - it makes the emotional/trust issues more central to my mind. We are feeling our way around this, rather than setting a scene, and then playing. Is that completely naive? Does anyone understand what I mean?

But, as a caveat, I will say that I fully intend to *ask* him if he has had any BDSM experience, when he gets back from holiday! Having posted this thread and explored this I now have the confidence to do this, which I wouldn't have had before because I would be afraid of looking pervy or shocking/insulting him. (I know that probably looks dumb in the light of what I've said before, but I hadn't kind of put everything together in my mind before).

And I will also say that I *now* realise the difference between two people wanting the same thing, one through dominance and one through submission, and one person submitting to dominance because she loves that person. I wonder how it would be if we cleared that up and talked about it?? I guess that's for me to find out.....

I'll stop now, cheers,
arcticfox

Re: your replies

arcticfox said:

I feel like I'm getting the message from the replies that if I haven't *always* wanted submission with everyone I've been with then I'm not really submissive and shouldn't explore it.

Click to expand...

Stop a moment, please.
Take a breath.
Again.
Calm yourself.

Truth: There is no one right way with regard to any sexuality and most especially with regard to BDSM sexuality.

There is, however, a way that is right for you. Whether you can articulate it or not at this point, there is a way to do this, to include it in your life should you so choose, that is right and good and of value and heat for you.

Your way will not be the same as mine, even though we both might claim BDSM sexuality as a core part of our identity.

You may find a partner with whom you share a similar idea of the "right way" to express this kind of sexuality, someone with whom you share a similar set of needs and fears and dreams and desires. There will never be, however, a single best right good only way to "do" BDSM.

Get past that right now, darlin'.

But from other things I've read I thought that other people found they only felt submissive with certain individuals????

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I've offered the fullness of my submission, something that's an essential part of who i am and is not limited to bedroom-type activities, to only a few people in my life.

On the outside, just looking at me, i'm a strong, centered, self-confident, in-charge kinda woman. I'm a teacher and mother. I have long-time friends who don't have clue that i'm sexually submisive and would die laughing if someone suggested it to them as a serious possibility. (Well, if they didn't die of shock first.)

I don't feel submissive to everyone i meet. I don't feel submissive to every Dominant i meet. Why on earth would i?

Do gay men feel attracted to every single man thier eyes pass over? Do unmarried women feel attracted to every single unmarried man they meet?

Why would it be different for us?

Re: your replies (more thoughts)

arcticfox said:

Maybe I didn't express it well. Maybe you're right, and I'm being defensive! but: he didn't really hurt me, ever. The only two times he caused me pain I slapped him and told him not to be so rough with me. He apologised. And he became more gentle with me. The last time we had sex I allowed him to see that I was happy to let him lean his weight on me and 'crush' me a bit - I relaxed and didn't fight him. I *wanted* to do this, to show him that I trusted him. It's all very subtle. He absolutely doesn't bully me.

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All those who have posted to you, fox, have done so from concern for you - a thing i know you understand but something that bears repeating.

It's important that you understand the replies are all from concern because our sexuality, fox, the sexuality that we do here, that we discuss, that we pick apart and dissect for tiny nuggets of meaning and importance, THAT sexuality is very different from the sexuality that you're used to practicing.

BDSM sexuality lives by different rules than the ones you're used to applying to sexual situations.

Our relationships are different than those enjoyed by nilla folks, and not in small ways but in gigantic and extremely basic ways.

It is from a mindset shaped by our so-different set of rules and priorities that everyone posted to you. You need to understand that to understand any of the concern everyone feels for you in the relationship you've described to us.

In our world, fox, your relationship is a dangerous one. In our world, it's pretty clearly moving toward what most of us would consider abusive. In our world it's most definitely not SSC-based BDSM.

However, that doesn't mean it cannot change and grow and become what you wish and need. It doesn't mean either you or he are bad people. It doesn't mean you should flee in panic before he kills you.

It does mean that you both should probably do some thinking about what you want individually from each other and from your relationship.

Then you should talk to each other about all of it. And talk. And talk some more.

At the heart of every single BDSM relationship of any worth at all are people who communicate openly with each other on an astoundingly frequent basis about their needs and desires and fears.

Communication, honesty, and trust are the legs on which all good BDSM relationships stand, and it is with their growth that you have to begin refashioning your relationship into one that will endure and give you both what you need from it.

I don't want to bore you all to death with the details, but I have a question which seems important: it has been stressed that these things are best discussed beforehand and carried out within proscribed 'playtime'. Does anyone else feel that they would prefer things to be a bit more blurry, a bit more 'real'? I.e. I think in a way the fact that things have not been made completely explicit between me and J is partially what is exciting for me - it makes the emotional/trust issues more central to my mind. We are feeling our way around this, rather than setting a scene, and then playing. Is that completely naive? Does anyone understand what I mean?

Click to expand...

Again, there is no one right way.

Everyone conducts their own life in a way that's right for them.

Within BDSM circles there are people who live the lifestyle full time. For them, there's rarely any off time, any time when the submissive can slap the Dominant's face for stepping on her toes - and not expect some pretty stunning consequences.

There are also people who set aside specific playtime for the exploration of their power-exchange sexuality but who live a mostly egalitarian life together all the rest of the time.

There are people who are only sexual Tops or bottoms. For them, there's rarely any emotional submission or Dominance that carries over into other parts of their lives together.

BDSM is what you need it to be.
It can become what you want and desire of it.

There's no rule book and there are no rules except for almost universal adherence to the concept that for the relationship or the play or the session or the sex or the whatever to be considered BDSM, it has to be Safe, Sane, and Consensual - often abbreviated and understood by all as SSC.

Near the top of the Forum is an *excellent* essay by one of the forum moderators, RisiaSkye, on just this topic. Please go read that now. (http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70084) After you've read it, please ask any questions you have about the concept or how to include it within your relationship.

You're doing a very good job of asking questions, fox, but you need some of the basics to continue on. You skipped the basics, you know, and went right into actual playing without being grounded in the whats and whys and wheres and how to's first. That's gotta be pretty confusing for you.

Now go read Risia's SSC thing.

cym, i just wanted to tell you that you have a wonderful way with words and i always love reading your posts.

Dear Cymbidia,
Thank you so much for taking the time to read this thread and offer your advice. Firstly, I've read Risia's SSC post, and also had a look at the breaking submissives mentions on the threads. I can see the difference between what has happened between my older guy and myself, and SSC BDSM play, and I appreciate the concern that you and others have expressed. I'm really glad this forum exists, cos just reading the *stories* gives another picture... but then they are fantasies, and these threads deal with reality, human and emotional.

"You're doing a very good job of asking questions, fox, but you need some of the basics to continue on. You skipped the basics, you know, and went right into actual playing without being grounded in the whats and whys and wheres and how to's first. That's gotta be pretty confusing for you. "

You are right, it has been very confusing for me. My boundaries have got shifted without any explicit discussion. I think what is interesting to me now is this safe gap that gets opened up by the discussion, the limits, the 'play'. When I read the fantasies in the stories, they are full of situations in which (e.g.) a woman who has never been submissive meets a guy ( a dom) who melts her and she finds herself doing submissive things for the first time. They don't stop and discuss their likes/dislikes, limits etc. first! But of course, these are fantasies, not real situations. So, I guess these might be the Scenes, which the pair of you will discuss and then enter into - so there is a safe gap between the scene and the emotional reality.

I didn't understand the purpose of this, whereas I kind of do now (though I guess I don't fully just purely because I havent' experienced it). With my older guy, it has all been 'real' since we haven't discussed it, and while the emotional/psychological side has been a real kick for me (and I guess I've been a bit unwilling to 'defuse' that by discussing it objectively) I can see how there is potential danger there.

I guess the challenge for me now is to think about what I actually want, for myself. Maybe part of my willingness to start submitting to my older guy without discussion was linked to not wanting to take responsibility for my more unconventional desires...i.e. it's been easier for me to think, 'OOhh! He's seduced me and I'm being made to do these things cos he's dominating and when I'm turned on I can't exert any will', than for me to think, I actually want to be 'raped' or slapped on my genitals or whatever, and to express this desire.

Just as importantly, I guess I've been unwilling to find out what he honestly wants - I mean he's tried to tell me but I havent' been a very receptive audience, cos it was unfamiliar to me and I was worried by what I was picking up from him. That's why I'm so interested in finding out the dom/me perspective, so that I can *understand* his dominant desires, instead of finding them alarming/embarrassing.

So now, it remains for me to talk to him! (He's back from holiday on Thursday...can't wait, and hope he wants to see me......)

I can't really believe how much there is to this that I hadn't realised, and how much my understanding has grown from none at all (a few months ago) to ok, a little bit of the basics in principle now. I'm very thankful to all of you for engaging with me in this exploration - I could have got hurt if this hadn't existed - maybe not physically (I DO trust him not to do that, BDSM discussion or no BDSM discussion this guy IS my friend as well as a lover!), but very probably emotionally. And it might have tied up the feelings I have towards submission in even worse knots!!

So........thanks...you guys are great. Even if I decide once I've experimented a bit more sensibly that submission/domination is not for me, I'll still have gained such a lot in selfunderstanding and acceptance. And if I decide it is for me, well then, that will be a whole new door to open!

Hope you don't mind if I keep you posted on the developments with the older guy , and I'm also interested to hear more from Dom/mes about how they discovered their Dom urges, and how they understand and reconcile them with other bits of their life/personality.

much respect and metta,
arcticfox

First off Hi Cym long time sweety.

Second is I have decided to try and see if I like subbing. No it is not part of my nature but I felt in order to earn the right to be a Domme\Misstress it would be better to start at the bottom. PLease anyone corect me if I am wrong. I feel I would be able to understand my sub\slave better having been there. But I am having problems fighting my agressive side of my nature and it is getting me into trouble not any that I can't handle at the moment and He does know what I expect out of this but still it is there. Does anyone have any advice on how to start the proccess or how to relax and just let go. Any advice is welcome.

Domination is about caring...training...raising a submissive to be all they can be...rather than less than they were.
Taking them to the EDGE of heaven and hell followed by long conversations and cuddles as both sides allow their emotions to be felt and understood.
New relationships in the BDSM world should start slowly until trust is built on both sides. Never ASSUME your partner is all you feel they are nor that you wish them to be. You may be their first experience beyond their own fantasies and when you enter the real world scenes seldom play out like those in your favourite stories.
Good luck in your exploration.

Shadowsdream said:

Domination is about caring...training...raising a submissive to be all they can be...rather than less than they were.
Taking them to the EDGE of heaven and hell followed by long conversations and cuddles as both sides allow their emotions to be felt and understood.
New relationships in the BDSM world should start slowly until trust is built on both sides. Never ASSUME your partner is all you feel they are nor that you wish them to be. You may be their first experience beyond their own fantasies and when you enter the real world scenes seldom play out like those in your favourite stories.
Good luck in your exploration.

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Thanks Shadow,
I guess I'm starting to understand that side of it, the protective, nurturing side of control. Before I was just confronted with the idea: he wants to control; why, if he loves me? It seems to me that there is potential for exploring and releasing emotions that have got tied up, through the use of the power exchange. I feel a little nervous about the prospect, but intrigued too. It must be something to take very slowly...people's emotions are not games.
He's still not back from holiday, by the way....so this is all to be seen...and he may not want to see me, in which case it will have to go on a back burner until it arises again...but I've got a feeling he will want to see me...

Mystical

I have heard many times that the best Dominants are those that began in submission. As in all things this statement is simply a matter of opinion..and everyone has one.

I have never submitted because submission is not in My nature. I do not feel the need to submit to know what those I control need or how they feel at the end of My leash. I see it in their eyes, I hear it in their voice and I experience it in their devotion.

For Me to submit would be for Me to be playing a game. It would be dishonest. I hold honesty to be the ultimate virtue.

This answer does not fit everyones needs..only My own.

Good luck in your journey to enlightment of your own needs.

Mystical said:

First off Hi Cym long time sweety.

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Hi darlin' - yes, long time.

Just to echo others: one doesn't have to earn anything in this game of bodies, tolerances, and needs unleashed and pushed. One is what one is. One can experiment at will, of course, if they can find a willing partner, but one isn't obliged to test the view from the other side just to say they've done it and, so, understand it.

Hell, i've been on this side of things for almost 30 years and i'm still not sure i understand it. How could someone else try it on for a month or two and then go away secure in the knowledge that they know what it is to submit?

Sub if you feel called to it.
Don't sub if you aren't comfy with it.
The quality of your Dominance doesn't depend on your having spent time on this side of the flogger, Mystical. Honestly.

Sub if you feel called to it.
Don't sub if you aren't comfy with it.
The quality of your Dominance doesn't depend on your having spent time on this side of the flogger, Mystical. Honestly.

Cym I understand what you mean now by if I am called to it or not. I have learned a few things from Him and of myself this last 2 weeks and I find I am happy to please him but can't see myself being sub to anyone else. Is this normal or is it just me. I love when I have to beg Him, doing the things that pleases only Him, and I feel more after being with HIm then anyone I have ever been with. I am still very confused on somethings but one I am not I am happy when He is happy.

Mystical?
Normal is different for us all.

For me, with my last Dominant, "normal" involved needles through my tender parts. Often.

It never involved that with anyone else in my life - and i don't think "normal" would involve that for, say, Merelan or SpectreT or Hecate - all from here.

Normal is what's right for you in your sitution. We keep the SSC guidelines close to help us find a way through all the new and exciting and wonderful sensations - but in the end, it's what's right for you and your partner.

I cannot give you a definitive answer for your question. Normal for me is submitting to whomever my Dominant is currently, and i've submitted, at different levels, to many Dominants through time.

I feel helpless to answer your question. I'm sorry.

Cym my friend do not be sorry. I have asked myself the same question a hundreds times and do not get an answer. But I guess the only answer for me is to just enjoy this new jurney and see where it will lead me. I thank you for some look into what it it like for you as I am still very new to this and these sensations as well. But so far it has been a wonderful and confusing jurney SP I am in this for self knowledge and..... what else I could no tell you at this time but I am here.