A disturbing trend

Two different munch groups in my area have announced that from now on they will be holding "protocol munches" and have posted rules to local based email groups. At these events all attendees must identify their role, and act accordingly. They've got a long list of the usual protocols, subs may not adress doms first, honorific titles must be used, etc.
Now, I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned, that's a public play party, and violates my standards of proper behavior. We in the BDSM scene do not want to be told what to do by vanillas, and in return, we have no right to shove what we do in vanilla's faces.
In addition, I cant think of a better way to scare away newcomers. The whole point of munches is to have a neutral ground where any interested party can come, meet people and learn about the lifestyle without having to worry about violating someone's protocol.
I really hope this trend doesnt spread.

I haven't heard of anything remotely like that around here, James. I hope i don't. It sounds uncomfy and unworkable, to be honest.

At my munches, *everyone* sits around a long banquet table, all facing each other, and talks. Just talks. And we all make jokes. And we laugh. And the conversation flows easily. And it doesn't matter who is Dom/me and who is not, at all.

I would *hate* for the easy give-and-take of budding friendships we've got in the three monthly munches in my area to change in such an almost angonistically formalized manner.

I hope the new trend will be quickly reversed before others jump onto a band wagon that sounds unridable.

It sounds awful - and yes I agree with you James it sounds like a public play party to me!!!
But then I have stated my views about innapropiate behaviour/rules for munches previuosly and I am currently in discussions with my local munch group to try and sort this out.

I go to a munch because I want to meet people and learn about the lifestyle. There's no way I would attend if I felt I had to adhere to certain rules of conduct beyond common courtesy, or be judged for my lack of knowledge and experience.
I read a local bdsm yahoo group and I have to say that I am a bit disheartened about some of the people here. They seem more interested in bickering about their imaginary rank and perks than they do about helping novices or building an inclusive community. Thank God I have this wonderful forum here to learn from.

That is ridiculous. That isn't even a munch. You are correct that it is basically a play party, if it is even a party. Surely it will lose its appeal, if it even has any appeal. Nothing will ever take the place of a munch or a nice social. Somebody got their minds working over time, and went straight to tilt!

I have never been to a munch and I can honestly tell you that if I had to follow those rules and protocals, I'd never go. I'd feel like I was expected to submit to every Dom/me that came along and I don't work like that. I only submit to someone I know, love and trust a great deal. Sounds like a really wonderful way to scare the newbies away.

Sounds like an opportunity to get together with some of the members who agree that it's nonsense and start your own group.

James Blandings said:

Two different munch groups in my area have announced that from now on they will be holding "protocol munches" and have posted rules to local based email groups. At these events all attendees must identify their role, and act accordingly. They've got a long list of the usual protocols, subs may not adress doms first, honorific titles must be used, etc.
Now, I'm sorry, but as far as I'm concerned, that's a public play party, and violates my standards of proper behavior. We in the BDSM scene do not want to be told what to do by vanillas, and in return, we have no right to shove what we do in vanilla's faces.
In addition, I cant think of a better way to scare away newcomers. The whole point of munches is to have a neutral ground where any interested party can come, meet people and learn about the lifestyle without having to worry about violating someone's protocol.
I really hope this trend doesnt spread.

Click to expand...

I totally agree with you James. What has possessed them? What I find offensive is that they are imposing behaviour on people who they have no consentual relationship with. It is almost as bad as some of the chatroom behaviour I have watched in the past.

Ebony

Precisely

CarolineOh said:

I go to a munch because I want to meet people and learn about the lifestyle. There's no way I would attend if I felt I had to adhere to certain rules of conduct beyond common courtesy, or be judged for my lack of knowledge and experience.
I read a local bdsm yahoo group and I have to say that I am a bit disheartened about some of the people here. They seem more interested in bickering about their imaginary rank and perks than they do about helping novices or building an inclusive community. Thank God I have this wonderful forum here to learn from.

Click to expand...

I am often appalled at what I call the virtual bowing and scrapping that goes on in some chat rooms by so-called D/sers.

Common courtesy is the best any stranger can expect from a dom/me or sub at a munch.

Ebony

Re: Re: A disturbing trend

Ebonyfire said:

I totally agree with you James. What has possessed them? What I find offensive is that they are imposing behaviour on people who they have no consentual relationship with. It is almost as bad as some of the chatroom behaviour I have watched in the past.

Ebony

Click to expand...

Chatroom behavior is exactly what it is, IMO. And to make it extra ridiculous, they are claiming that this is an attempt to return to "old guard" ways. Yeah, right, not one of them is close to old enough to have any real knowledge of old guard. One thing the old guard whould never have done is parade themselves in front of a restaurant full of vanillas.

Re: Precisely

Ebonyfire said:

I am often appalled at what I call the virtual bowing and scrapping that goes on in some chat rooms by so-called D/sers.

Common courtesy is the best any stranger can expect from a dom/me or sub at a munch.

Ebony

Click to expand...

I agree 100% Ms. Ebony. The problem is that too many of these training wheel doms are confused as to what constitutes respect, and what constitutes deference. Everyone deserves respect until they prove otherwise. But what they are asking for is not respect, but special privilege, and that has to be earned, not given to them just because they thought up a domly screen name or bought a leather vest.

Ebony

I am in total agreement...this does appear to be the chat room *create* importance type of attitude that this group is trying to instill.

James Blandings

I had to laugh through your post in total agreement!

Re: Re: Precisely

James Blandings said:

I agree 100% Ms. Ebony. The problem is that too many of these training wheel doms are confused as to what constitutes respect, and what constitutes deference. Everyone deserves respect until they prove otherwise. But what they are asking for is not respect, but special privilege, and that has to be earned, not given to them just because they thought up a domly screen name or bought a leather vest.

Click to expand...

I love that phrase, "training wheel doms"! It is just so apt.

That is one of the main reasons I stopped going into chat rooms. If I saw one more "Kneel slut" typed on the screen I was gonna go nuts!

Ebony

Re: Re: Re: Precisely

Ebonyfire said:

That is one of the main reasons I stopped going into chat rooms. If I saw one more "Kneel slut" typed on the screen I was gonna go nuts!

Click to expand...

For me, it got to the point where i was gonne throw up if i had to watch one more "slave" orgasming wildly while her "Master" was whipping the skin off her back.

Sorry.
That just strains credibility too far for me, thanks.

I've been doing this BDSM thing a while. I've got definite masochistic needs that have been played out in real encounters. I've never cum while the skin was being flayed off my back, and no one i've ever seen has ever cum during that kinda abuse, either.

Maybe it happens on occasion between true sadists and true masochists - but rarely.

And certainly not while the "slave" is concerned about the way the candlelight strikes her flowing raven dark hair as "Master's" whip snakes down to etch a new stripe across the others that are weeping redly from the milk-white globes of her trembling bottom... while she stiffens, absorbing the horrible pain, and then pleads, whimpering, and begs for more, "Oh my Master...oh thank You...You know how to best discipline Your treasure, my Master...You know everything...Your little one is safe in Your hands and Your whip loves me as you do".

Oh gods.

I could throw up right here.

How do we tell those people that in the real world, we fart and sweat and sometimes the toy most desired isn't magically right there? How do we tell then that in real BDSM relationships, we use each others names. (Imagine being in the bank, in front of the teller, and asking, "Master? Should we deposit this check or just cash it?" Or in the grocery store and admonishing our partner with a gentle, "Oh Master, try the unsalted peanuts, please; they're better for your heart than the salted ones.")

Geezus.

I have less and less tolerance for chatroom bullshit conventions as time goes by. I'm gonna continue to stomp down hard on it here, too. I hate that chatroom crap.



Ummm...sorry...what was the subject again?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Precisely

cymbidia said:

I have less and less tolerance for chatroom bullshit conventions as time goes by. I'm gonna continue to stomp down hard on it here, too. I hate that chatroom crap.

Ummm...sorry...what was the subject again?

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I just read your post, do you mean you post to a topic?

CarolineOh said:

I go to a munch because I want to meet people and learn about the lifestyle. There's no way I would attend if I felt I had to adhere to certain rules of conduct beyond common courtesy, or be judged for my lack of knowledge and experience.
I read a local bdsm yahoo group and I have to say that I am a bit disheartened about some of the people here. They seem more interested in bickering about their imaginary rank and perks than they do about helping novices or building an inclusive community. Thank God I have this wonderful forum here to learn from.

Click to expand...

Did you say rank? This isn't the first time I have heard the term "rank" used in a BDSM context. It nauseates me. Any power given to a Dom/me in BDSM is just that - given. How this entitles anyone to any rank other than "fortunate" for having a compatable person to live/play with is beyond me. Caroline, I agree that's it's just bad form, particularly in situation where the merely curious may be in attendance.

And Caroline - welcome back! I hope you are feeling yourself soon! (um, take that whatever way feels best!)

deleted

Speaking of "old guard"

and more disturbing trends.

I have been lurking on a few other lists, and I see another disturbing trend. It seems that some Dom/mes are invoking the "old guard" defense to justify some of the things they do. They know that just saying the words "old guard" gives their actions a "Good Dom Stamp of approval"; which makes a sub feel that if they say anything they are "just not a true sub".

Has anyone else noticed this sort of thing online?

Ebony

James Blanding

CarolineOh said:

I go to a munch because I want to meet people and learn about the lifestyle. There's no way I would attend if I felt I had to adhere to certain rules of conduct beyond common courtesy, or be judged for my lack of knowledge and experience.
I read a local bdsm yahoo group and I have to say that I am a bit disheartened about some of the people there. They seem more interested in bickering about their imaginary rank and perks than they do about helping novices or building an inclusive community. Thank God I have this wonderful forum here to learn from.

Click to expand...

Having never seen the need to attend munches before,...I can clearly see the benefit of them to growing a healthy sharing BDSM community.



I myself have never participated in a group scene, dungeon, etc. I look forward to one day attending a munch, and visiting face to face, with like minded individuals. All of my participation in BDSM, have been VERY personal, and isolated as far as R/L goes.



I would offer only support to CarolineOh's post, and agree with James Blandings assessment. Not good news folks!

(jmho)

The whole idea that online BDSM would dictate RL is disturbing to me. To me, the whole idea behind online D/s is as a (hopefully temporary) substitute for the RL relationship someone can't find. That the BS which fills chatrooms would seep over into RL...

No way. I couldn't belong to that group.

I think ...

RisiaSkye said:

The whole idea that online BDSM would dictate RL is disturbing to me. To me, the whole idea behind online D/s is as a (hopefully temporary) substitute for the RL relationship someone can't find. That the BS which fills chatrooms would seep over into RL...

No way. I couldn't belong to that group.

Click to expand...

that is what is happening. Online is spilling into RL. There are increasing numbers of people who get their initial experiences online, and then they go to munches. Many of the new BDSM groups are started by people who have been initiated into BDSM by chatroom Dom/mes.

Ebony

Re: Speaking of "old guard"

Ebonyfire said:

and more disturbing trends. They know that just saying the words "old guard" gives their actions a "Good Dom Stamp of approval"
Ebony

Click to expand...

It has been a while for me, but I do remember the phrase "old guard" being used a lot. The people in the chat rooms don't seem to understand what this phrase means, and take it to mean the person is experienced and Masterful in their craft. But, just like every other aspect of this lifestyle, just saying something doesn't make it true. Anybody can spew out some fancy sounding words. But then, that is all online is. If you are good with the words, you can be whoever you want to be.

And, I also notice that the people, who frequent online ONLY, do tend to feel it is quite similar to real life. Only a small part of the online play is part of the real life. To think that online is a training ground for real life is going to give that trainee a rude awakening.

One thing is limits. I could never understand that some online subs would have limits to what they wouldn't do, just like real life. Sure, I understand the hard limits of scat, kids, animals, and all the rest. But, I used to chat with ladies that wouldn't mind a flogger, but did mind a crop. One was OK with a crop, but not a cane. I chatted with one who didn't mind being stripped, tied down and forced into anal sex with a machine, but was a vaginal virgin in real life, so that was also a limit in chat. Am I am missing something here? I would understand that in a real life limit, but this is only computer sex.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Precisely

cymbidia said:

For me, it got to the point where i was gonne throw up if i had to watch one more "slave" orgasming wildly while her "Master" was whipping the skin off her back.

Sorry.
That just strains credibility too far for me, thanks.

I've been doing this BDSM thing a while. I've got definite masochistic needs that have been played out in real encounters. I've never cum while the skin was being flayed off my back, and no one i've ever seen has ever cum during that kinda abuse, either.

Maybe it happens on occasion between true sadists and true masochists - but rarely.

And certainly not while the "slave" is concerned about the way the candlelight strikes her flowing raven dark hair as "Master's" whip snakes down to etch a new stripe across the others that are weeping redly from the milk-white globes of her trembling bottom... while she stiffens, absorbing the horrible pain, and then pleads, whimpering, and begs for more, "Oh my Master...oh thank You...You know how to best discipline Your treasure, my Master...You know everything...Your little one is safe in Your hands and Your whip loves me as you do".

Oh gods.

I could throw up right here.

How do we tell those people that in the real world, we fart and sweat and sometimes the toy most desired isn't magically right there? How do we tell then that in real BDSM relationships, we use each others names. (Imagine being in the bank, in front of the teller, and asking, "Master? Should we deposit this check or just cash it?" Or in the grocery store and admonishing our partner with a gentle, "Oh Master, try the unsalted peanuts, please; they're better for your heart than the salted ones.")

Geezus.

I have less and less tolerance for chatroom bullshit conventions as time goes by. I'm gonna continue to stomp down hard on it here, too. I hate that chatroom crap.



Ummm...sorry...what was the subject again?

Click to expand...

As one who spent waaaaaay too much time engaging in that chatroom crap way back when...I just have to agree with every word.