All Comments on 'The South will Rise Again'

Interesting. You have made a comment that very few people will admit too. That every single black person sent from Africa was actually sold by a black person in the first place. Good for you. And yes, slavery is disgusting and unsupportable.

Great commentary.

There is also Gov. Spotswood of Virginia. He conspired with ships' captains to conscript passengers who paid their passage so the king would give him land grants. Spotswood's daughter was the first lady of the Confederacy. Several of my ancestors on my mother's side were sold into servitude. "In every family line there are kings and slaves." Crisler, Carpenter, Blankenburger, Souther and other lines who fled famine and disease. I enjoy your stories, I do not always agree; but, I do enjoy your point of view. Thank you.

I live one state west of you and I Believe that both sides were fed a crock of shit during the Civil War. The South said the "They are trying to change our way of life". Not they are trying to take away our free labor.

In the North they said "We are fighting to free oppressed people". Not them SOB's can't take keep most of our natural resources and food.

I agree with you on this subject. On the story that set this off you should have set it in Lawrence County that's where the Dixie Mafia is. I am setting in Limestone Co. Right now.

One of my pet peeves currently is watching America rewrite its history in real-time. It boggles my mind to see history being changed just because bad things happened. Bad things are always happening.

Don't mind me, just fashioning a tin foil hat for the aptly-named PrincessNutNut.

So you're against slavery? Where was your phone and your computer made? If they were made in China, every chance they were made under slavery or quasi slavery.

Clothes and shoes made in an Asian sweatshop? Quasi slavery.

Asian workers who laboured on the World Cup stadia in Qatar, they were all but slaves. Many not paid, unbelievable injury and death rates. Those who did live through it and were paid, were paid a pittance.

Asian workers in the gulf states are all but slaves.

Who is capable of changing this when the world is run by an oligarchy of a few of the 1% of the 1%.

Not an American, so I don't have a dog in either of the both the same party camps, but:

Someone, one of the anonymous, cited anti-abortion law. Honestly, I've thought about this but don't know what side I fall on. My body, my choice, sounded like a compelling argument. Right until I saw how many of this self same group espousing MBMC wanted compulsory vaccinations. This of a vaccine(sic) that turned out not to stop you getting nor transmitting the virus, but did mess an awful lot of the vaccine up. It now seems to need more repeats than Friends or I Love Lucy.

Which wing of the both the same party was behind the KKK?

Another anonymous uses the term misogynistic. Even given the amount of BTB stories on Loving Wives, I'd love to be able to do a word count of all the times derivatives of misogynist are used as against misandrist on Literotica. Yet surely both occur?

Finally, someone's ancestor is castigated for supporting a war to keep slaves. The American Civil War was even less about freeing slaves than WWII was about saving Jews, and the Jews in WWII weren't really a consideration at all.

Very well said, But what you left out is that it is also a part of our history. History, like all things is a learning tool. Some of it is good and some not so good, but we learn from it. It should never be forgotten or swept under the rug and hidden from all to see. We learn from history and make changes to the facts going forward. We learn from our mistakes and make things better for all.

There is still slavery going on today in our country, we just hide and disguise it better today so no one knows and we also pay it a minimum wage in some cases. Think about it, crop harvesting, construction workers, maids service, etc. Yes it is a part of life in every country throughout the world.............():\

Thought provoking piece. Slavery is awful it's abuse and should be deplored. The same as religious intolerance or sex discrimination and all the other intolerances we permit in our society. We as a race have a history of awful behaviour to each other which is still currently going on. We cannot change the past nor the present we can only attempt to change the future. Should we acknowledge the suffering and pain? Of course we should, all of us should. Then examine ourselves and try our best to do the right thing because it is the right thing to do morally and for no other reason. Until we all do that this world is doomed to keep repeating the same awful intolerant bigoted selfish behaviour. One can but hope one day we will find a way to be better, all of us. Thank you for publishing this and making some people think. BardnotBard

A very prescient essay, some 10 years on! But I would point out one thing about today's Resurrected South. It WAS defined by slavery- aka God ordained human property- in the 19th century. Note today that the rise of the Southern White Protestant "Religious Right" and regional derivatives of them started in the mid-1990s again for a reason. Simple observation provides the answer. All those "Black people" who went North in the 1920s-1940s began a reverse mass migration back to the South about then. What do we see within a short time after, rising again? Klan, reborn Redeemers, and Cracker Pride. Same old folk. Same old ethnic enemy. The author's right that that Old South didn't invent slavery. Indeed most were not even slave owners. But they though it was all God ordained and opposed the question of conscience. The similarity between that 19th century attitude towards slavery and today's abortion debate is a remarkable analog. We can only hope the resulting Butcher's Bill over the defacto 'War Between the States" this time around won't be as terrible this time. The author is right speaking of "Glass Houses" as it were. I know this history, because like the author I had family that lived through it and wrote personal memoirs after. They were Pennsylvania Quakers who became abolitionists, were 'read out' of their meetings, and finally fought with for the Union out of conscience. Now we are old Unitarians. History goes on rhyming it seems.

My great great grandmother owned slaves. When the yankes came through she treated the wounded of both sides. One of the slaves sat on the front porch of the house with a rifle to protect the women. After the war, her new husband ran off with one of the former slaves to the Carolinas. This is history, well documented. Every family has its own stories.

Good try. Every family tree has slaves and kings. My ancestors were part of the Second Germana Colony, indentured to the Lt. Gov. of the VA Colony. This Colony is well documented. I enjoy you stories. I hope you continue, thanks.

A sad truth: Today, world wide, there are more human beings enslaved than ever before in history.

I appreciate your point of view, but it is a bit false. You see, slavery is almost as old as mankind. So is murder, rape and theft. That it has been around for a long time doesn’t make it right. When your great great grandfather picked up a gun to defend slavery, he may have been a pawn in the game but one willing to lay down his life for it. You see, your great great grandfather was an insurrectionist and a traitor to democracy. Just think if your dad decided to fight for Tojo or Hiller in WWII. What would you call him? A patriot or someone defending his “way of life?” That being said, you don’t have to live with the bad decisions of your ancestors or defend them. I had lunch on Friday with a client whose grandfather fought for Germany in WWII. She was somewhat apologetic but became horrified when I told her I lost relatives in Auschwitz. I said no need. It was her life to live and she didn’t need to apologize for the sins of her fathers. Slavery is something that probably would have died on its own, but is still a stain on our republic. If you are a loyal citizen of this republic, you will acknowledge that slavery was a historic mistake made by a ruling elite that never should have happened. Hopefully we learn from our mistakes. Trying to justify them is something of a fool’s errand.

The southern states’ stalwart support of Trump and his often hateful racist, misogynistic and grossly insensitive treatment of immigrant families suggests to me that the south should be on its knees praying that a just God will not punish them for blind disgusting ignorance.

I mostly agree with what you wrote except for, "So, while the South gets belittled, they were ultimately only the end users in a long chain of misery."

I would agree with this sentence if you hadn't added the word "only." Only, completely changes the context of the sentence and implies that they were just a mere small, part of a disgusting line of brutality. When in fact, they inflicted a lot of brutality on slaves, breaking up their families by selling their wives, husbands and/or children, by beating and berating, etc., as they continued to inflict brutality on them day after day. There were not "only" or rather merely, the end in that line of brutal cruelty, but a rather large part of that line. For if there was no end of the line to send men, women, and children to, there would have been no slaves.

Amen brother. Nuff said. This isn’t about slavery anymore, it’s about what can be used to claim victim status so less effort is needed and their anger is justified. Anarchy is another name. The ultimate hilarity is that they have no clue that the real powermongers don’t give a shit about them and are just using them for their own ulterior goals and they will then become dispensable. Race, sexual orientation, etc. all the same.

I agree with you that you are not a racist. However some of your information is onesided, Slavery existed before americans got involved. A spanish bishop in Latin America appalled at the atrocities inflicted on native american, recommended to the king of Spain and his church people that Africans be used instead of the indians. The rest then became economics,

In the 1850s, within walking distance of my home (as in less than ten miles), there were pit villages built for ironstone miners. Some cottages are still there. The men were paid in tokens, only redeemable in the mine-owner's store. If a married man died in the pit, his wife had a day to grieve and another day to find a new husband to share her home/bed/body or she was evicted, along with her children. These folk had no options, no power. Not quite slaves but almost.

People can be jerks. A lot of rich people got rich by being bigger jerks than everyone else. Slavery was shit. Exploiting the weak for profit is shit, no matter who does it or what excuse they hide behind. Denying it happened or excusing it or trivialising it is shit too. Is that who we are?

My parents met during WWII. Should I be grateful to Hitler for invading Poland? What a fucking stupid suggestion. You can't use the present to justify historical wrongs unless you can prove, with certainty, that rhe alternatives would have been worse.: And you can't. The world would have been different, but can you use the current state of humanity to excuse the death and suffering of hundreds of thousands of innocents? Purely to make rich people richer?

Talk about slavery by all means, but for pity's sake, don't excuse it.

"White people, including myself and yourself still benefit from it. "

'Anonymous' of 15 days ago - I totally agree that Slavery is appalling and should never have happened!

Let me ask a question though.

Of all the African-Americans around, where would they be if slavery had not taken place?

Your statement is pretty accurate, Slavery has been around since the beginning of time, The version that was here in the states was from the Africans capturing other tribes or getting rid of their troublemakers, then selling them to the Arabs or Portuguese traders whom then sold them to the whites. Slavery is still practiced by some of the Arab countries today. The problem is that now we have people stirring up the hate and division of the past for their own benefit, most people are too busy working to worry and deal with it unless it is continually being stirred up and brought up. We shouldn't forget history, and not repeat the mistakes of the past, but don't wallow in the past either, then you can't move forward.

Late to the party, but what i got was slavery was practiced everywhere so people shoudnt be upset. Live and let live.

The white southern fragility is strong here. You are right of course theres a terrible history of enslaving others everywhere. We also wiped out entire groups of indigenous peoples to found this country. We then built it on the backs of people who were brought here against their will.

Lets agree on that shall we? I know google is hard but many slaves were also captured in raids when their leaders refused ro sale them or simply because. People who were sold by leaders were not slaves in Africa and some of them were sold into slavery for punishment for things like debt. But sure, lets blame America's horrendous path with slavery on the victims. Those people must deserve it because some of their leaders betrayed them right? Sounds about whyte.

You want us to be flippant about slavery but you got butt hurt over a comment on a story on a porn site. I mean an entire race of people enslaved and treated horrendously vs your soft feelings being hurt. We dont want to offend your soft, I think youd call them snow flake or beta? Feelings about how this country came to be.

The arguments you proposed are ludicrous . At one point you reference the bible to point out slavery. The fact that you use that as a source, shows me your intelligence. Even biblical scholars dont hold it as a solid historical document. The way you say this seems like Black people should stop whining about their history, yet you seem pretty entrenched in your southern "heritage".

I wouldnt be so proud about the Lee thing. I know its hard to be on the wrong side of history but lets be real- you cant minimize slavery my friend. White people, including myself and yourself still benefit from it. This country is built on the blood of other people. No amount of trying to rationalize it is going to change that. Even if your relatives were poor farmers - you still are living in a country that used slave labor to come into existance.

Where would we be without slave labor? Honestly ask yourself that. Your family was still better off than people living as slaves. You thus are ahead right there.

I dont care how poor your relatives were. I dont care if you dont have a lot of wealth now. The reason people are still talking about it besides the atrocity, is systemic racism. No one is saying white people dont struggle. No one is saying you personally were responsible for it. What is true is you and I dont have to struggle the way black people do. We dont have to worry about being pulled over or shot for existing. We dont have to deal with people treating us poorly because of the color of our skin. We dont have the same barriers to job or education.

Check out the board on this site alone the amount of steroetyping alone just here. Black men are seem as thugs. Black neighborhoods are inherently dangerous. I could go on but im sure this is over your head. Education is important for this reason.

If you look up racism, the definition isnt just hate. Its also having unconscious or in your case conscious bias about another race. Its almost impossible to live in this country and not be racist. I know racism is a loaded word here, but it shouldnt be. We all have work to do. This little rant of yours proves this. You cant even acknowledge that people might be right in calling out slave owners because as you say over and over - other places had slaves why shouldnt we?

Empathy is almost as important as education. You appear to be lacking both. Our entire country needs fxing when people like you exist - refusing to do any self reflection or actual learning. Its sad how uneducated you sound. I would be embarrassed to live this long on the earth and still think this is a gotcha argument. The only people who agree with you are also very uneducated.

Excellent! Call it like it was, not like they want it to be. Thank you.

Why is it that the issue of Negro slavery before 1865 still resonates so strongly in America today?

I am guessing that a large plurality or a majority of present day United States residents did not have any ancestors living in America during or before the American Civil War. They certainly, while acknowledging that it was a terrible institution, have no reason to be emotionally involved with the controversy. They, after all, did not suffer from it and had no part in the system that supported it. Yet many of them get sucked in to the debate on a very deep level. I have never understood why they should passionately care about an issue that has nothing whatever to do with them or their ancestors. Even if a person is descended wholly or in part from the oppressors they bear no responsibility for what happened over a hundred fifty years ago. Historical guilt is pure rubbish. Guilt belongs to the perpetrators alone.

It makes sense to talk about present day oppression and injustice but guilt tripping and bringing up the world historical saga of slavery thru the ages does not help solve current problems. If America's numerous social ills are to be addressed it is better to focus on the modern Robber Barons, mentioned by several commentators, and their enablers and supporters instead of historical figures that have long ago turned to dust in their graves.

I read that story and I don't remember ANY racism on your part. Dealing with a bad thing doesn't make you the bad thing.

If you want to add to what you have written, the British govt sold Scottish rebels as slaves.

Some of the Scottish Clan chiefs disposed of surplus population on their lands by selling them into slavery in the USA.

It's not a black thing or a white thing, it's exploitation by big money.

Careful, I agree with you, however the counter culture crowd can get you banned just like "The Marlboro man". He is not allowed to post anymore. First Admenment does not apply.

I must say thanks for writing, keep up the good work.

You said a mouthful full and it's definitely something to think abouts. At the time of the Civil War, some of my family lived in southern Indiana and northern Kentucky. Had members on both sides

Going back through many of your stories, and loving most of them. That being said...

You are absolutely right. What is preached in schools and politics about 'Slavery' is soooooooo far off the mark that even some that find a way to read the actual history don't believe it.

Keep the tid bits coming. I try and put a few in every story I right just to see how many ignorant smart people are out there. You know you've hit the mark when they come unglued at you shattering their alternate reality... wait, wasn't that the name of the story they got pulled for pointing it out??? Hmmm.

As for Stoneywebb’s comments about the incident which he was referring too was racist! Because the Professor was black they “assumed” he was robbing his own home. If it were me (I am white) that the cops tried to arrest me entering my own house, I would have sued everyone including the idiot neighbour who reported the “break-in”! Black people are being treated very badly in your country. If black people drive an expensive car down the road, they are normally stopped by the police in road checks: racist!. A black realty estate agent and his costumer were arrested when he was showing a house for sale: racist!. A black man who was jogging in a white area entered a new partially completed home and he was killed by vigilante white Republicans! In my country I routinely enter houses under construction to look at how they are being built in my neighborhood. I find that most Republicans who I meet are racists! Maybe the Republican Party should be disbanded!

As a history buff, a avid researcher with advanced academic degrees in english and computer modeling... one of my big focuses is on the historic roots and evolution of slavery. Slavery is a very complex subject that defies simple "solutions" The author's treatment of southern slavery is accurate...as far as it goes... I would like to add a couple of significant caveats here, First the plantation slavery system was instituted in the "northern states" first. Large sale plantation farming which was a major European profit center in the new world just would not work in the rocky and mostly infertile land of the New England states...thus the "Yankees" sold those slaves south to areas with large areas of fertile "free land" in which large scale colonial plantation agriculture could reap huge profits. This system continued until the mid 1830's during which prohibition of imported slavery raised the cost of doing business until plantation agriculture was simply uneconomic. Increasingly though, the old plantations were purchased by individuals who made their money in business...and used the uneconomic ownership of slaves to shoehorn themselves into the high end "planter class." By the time of the War Between the States" slavery and plantation agriculture was in sharp decline... the high cost of "breeding" and supporting slaves for the work was simply too high,...and plantations were going bankrupt,

Following the civil war and the 10 year period of reconstruction...most states throughout the union instituted Jim Crow laws,, These laws made it virtually impossible for ex slave black males to stay out of jail, thus creating a semipermanent black convict population that was fed and maintained at State expense and rented out to the old plantation farmers at a fraction of the labor cost prior to the civil war. Thus during the period from 1880 - 1950 the amount of acreage devoted to large plantation farming grew exponentially...all supported by State supported black prisoners.

This kind of forced servitude makes a mockery of the modern analysis of this issue. Be very careful of using terms like "slavery" when you haven't a clue about the historical background. Frankly, involuntary servitude is not only still exists...but frankly has suffered significant expansion during the past 60 years. All one has to do is substitute the word "black" for "undocumented hispanic alien" and refocus the old agricultural model to one of high technology, meat packing, clothing manufacturing, etc....and you can reach a basic understanding of just how prevalent the current robber barons who run this USA....have used politically charged terms to hide the reality of a total economic and cultural transformation...back to a plantation involuntary service culture in California, and the west coast.

"Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” Winston Churchill

Nice to see someone who actually reads and digs into history. As a history nut and a Texan whose roots go back to the Austin Colony...I was particularly fascinated in the War Between the States and the continuing institution of "slavery." Couple of key points here.... first, plantation farming using slaves had become bankrupt suring the 1840's. It was kept in practice by people who made their money in business and bought failed plantations to shoehorn their way into the Planter class. The practice of slavery was in severe decline way prior to the War. Secondly, the plight of ex slaves was WORSE after the civil war as all the slave states, and most of the rest of the country enacted the "Jim Crow" laws...which made it virtually impossible for a free black male to stay out of prison. In prison these unfortunate "convicts" were rented out to the old plantation owners for pennies on the dollar giving them virtually free labor that they could work to death. During the period up to WW2...the old plantation farms went through dramatic expansion...using this government provided "slave" labor.

Unfortunately like in Haiti these individuals used these "slaves" like used disposable diapers.... so the fate of the rural black population during the 1890-1940 period was absolutely horrible,...much worse than the true slavery period prior to the Civil War.

One more politically incorrect insight... during the past 40 years, It seems what we in the USA have turned a blind eye to a similar revival of what is effectively a similar kind of slavery using Hispanic illegal aliens. What you see in places like California is massive immigration abet illegal.... and Wealthy modern robber barons...in meatpacking, agribusiness, and even high tech manufacturing...using these individuals as almost free (slave) labor....with similar abuses to that engendered by the black population during the slavery era of the pre civil war,

I invite you to do your own research...using quality on line databases like JSTOR and similar reliable sources for the plethora of academic papers that fully address and document these issues,

For the most part I agree. However Moses was not a slave. His family, his people were but Moses grew up in the royal family. Yeah I know. Nitpicking.

I will never read another one of your stories... "Im not making excuses for american slavery... BUT!!!"... And the sad thing is... You're not even aware that you're a racist... And most definitely an apologist... I enjoy so much your writing... But i don't enjoy what you are...

-jaye-

Thank you. These are very well-taken points. I couldn't have put it better myself.

Earlier this week, I read Unicorn, loved it, and was left wanting more. I then read Boston to Birmingham, and quite enjoyed that as well. Thank you for taking time to write, edit, and publish those stories.

That being said, I'm here to throw my hat into the ring, albeit 8 years late. I had no issue with your mention of slavery, and thought that your inclusion of the fact that Jess was in no position to refuse such advances was a nod to the horrors of slavery. I took bigger issue with the inclusion of the UDC, which historically venerated the KKK and spread the lie that the civil war was not fought over slavery.

Well-balanced point of view. I agree that rewriting history denies it. Slavery is an incredibly complex issue, and targeting only one segment of society is just stupid.

I couldn't have expressed it better. All the people who wag their fingers at southerners because of slavery are some of the biggest racists going. When I was first out of college, I became friendly with black that worked with me. He told me that in the fifties, his family had moved to New York City, saying they were tired of all the racism in the south. Seven years later they moved back to Alabama. My friend explained to me that in the south, the racism was blatant. In the north, he said the racism was more insidious. The Northerners would run their mouths about how broad minded they were while denying blacks jobs, opportunities, decent living. His father finally got fed up with the hypocrisy so they moved back south.

Let at least be honest here, racism exists in every country. If you want to see a truly racist country go to Japan. They truly believe that every other race is inferior to them. They treat minorities like shit.

You can say whatever you want to about the United States, but at least we abolished slavery with the death of hundreds of thousands of men, both north and south. We also passed laws to outlaw discrimination. Is our system perfect? Not by a long shot, but we keep trying which is more than most other countries.

Black LIves matters is a racist organization. They preach that only black people count. The sad thing is that I think that a large majority of black people are embarrassed by that organization. Supporting an organization like that only furthers the racial divide. And as long as I'm talking about organizations, lets look at Antifa. They claim to be anti fascist. But the truth is they operate the same way that the Nazis operated in Germany. They attack, verbally, physically, and economically, anyone who disagrees with. They use their bully boys to physically attack anyone they thinks even questions them. Like the Nazis who blamed everything on two groups - the communists and the Jews, Antifa blames everything on the police and white conservative males. They are a cancer on our society.

Barack Obama set back racial relations seventy years when he was president. One of the first things he did as President was to severely criticize the Cambridge police who were trying to help Professor Gates when a neighbor saw him trying to force his way into the back door of his house. His neighbor thought someone was trying to break into his house and called the police. They responded to protect Professor Gates' house. He became belligerent and forced a confrontation. All of the black officers at the scene agreed that Professor Gates was totally wrong. Barack Obama is a very angry half-black man whose white grandparents gave him a privileged life. And was he grateful for this - NO. He accused his grandparents of being racists.

It was about states rights!

States rights to what?

States rights to own peop... er, uh,

No, it was about the economy. Because the economy of the South would have suffered if slavery had...oh.

No, no, it was about the rights of states to set their own rules. Because there was a lot of disagreement about whether slavery should have been allowed in the territories when...shit.

But most southerners didn’t own slaves. Which is why the wealthy slave owners who ran the government declared war over...nope.

The southern decision to bomb Ft. Sumtner had more to do with the recent election of Lincoln. The south viewed the federal government as weak and Lincoln as a weak president. The decision to move forward was with the idea that the north would not be able to organize an effective response and over time would agree to allowing the south to cede.

A few facts of slavery. The Muslims of North Africa took more Europeans as slaves than were transported to the new world. Brazil and South America took more slaves than North America. Piracy in the Mediterranean was at its heights up to the earlier 1800's, including raids on American shipping in the Atlantic. Under Pres. Jefferson, the United States Navy and Marines brought the Sulimen to their knees. Marine Corp. hymn, "From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli"! Slavery was a global solution to labor markets (objective economic view).

@dgfergie nope. none needs to see traitors' statues to remind us of history. do you see Nazi statues in Germany?

The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution, African slavery as it exists amongst us – the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the “rock upon which the old Union would split.” He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the “storm came and the wind blew.”

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

- confederate VP on slavery.

your argument boils down to 'everyone was doing it back then and it still exists today'. and only rebuttal to those people is fuck them. if catholic church is doing it, then fuck the church.. same thing goes for the south during civil war. they were racist pieces of shits and no amount of revisionist history will wash it down. their treacherous nature was visible in last few months when they tried to storm the capitol..

Yes, other black Africans sold many blacks into slavery, but about half were sold by Arab slave traders.

Funny how many 'African-Americans' name their children with Arabic names.

It could seem to appear like they are happy their ancestors were sold by them.

The raid on Baltimore, Cork, Ireland took place in 1630. The price of the trip to America was often indenturetude which means they would have some rights and be set free after a while. Basically a labor contract. The slaves of 1619 were sold as slaves with the price of their freedom being indeturetude. Slavery was legalized in Virginia in 1661.

Grew up in a little place east of Omaha, just about as white as you get. I have loved reading since I was able, including history. After getting married we lived in Alabama for at least 8 years. I don't worry about color, assholes come in every one. Besides reading I have always loved music, not all but a variety. I voiced how I didn't like rap and was accused of being racist. I explained that I couldn't stand squash soup but that didn't mean I hated ALL soup. One of my favorite country singers is Darius Rucker and of course I love Vernon Reed on guitar (Living Color). I try to take people as they come. I can't change history but do the best I can with the present. Sadly, slavery still exists - we all need to do our part to put it in the history permanently!

Regarding slavery and the trend today of trying to remove statues and symbols of those times. People fought and died in the civil war and their are statues erected of many of those officers and generals from both sides. I am totally against the attempts to remove any symbols reminding us of those times. You cannot change history we need reminders or we are doomed to repeat our mistakes. Leave the statues and the reminders but attach a footnote to them so people will remember but not glorify that dark time in our history.

I could have written most of your words for you. You could have added many more ancient and current examples. Your detractors seem to think you’re justifying slavery, they are like horses with blinders. It existed. It wasn’t right. Deal with it in the current time to eliminate what remains. I choose to be anonymous only because of my Facebook experience with current mindset. You can’t (successfully) argue with a fool.

Thanks

We didn't invent slavery is a piss poor defence.. would you have the same defence when defending acts of theft, rape or murder. Southern states are still filled with racists who thrive on voter suppression. States like Georgia invented new run-off system to specifically avoid getting black people elected to the senate. Constant diet of Fox news, Newsmax & OANN has polarized these people even more than ever.

Btw ever wandered why so many southerners like traitor Lee's statues if it was just a matter of economics?

States rights have been briefly mentioned but not explored in any depth in any of the comments here! There were many other issues going on between the northern industrial states and southern agricultural states. One of the left overs of the revolutionary war and the writing of our constitution was the issue of how strong the federal government should be versus how strong the individual states were! Until the Civil war the Federal government was quite weak!

One; the issue of expansion of slavery into new territories or states. The south worried that they could loose power in the national congress particularly in the Senate if new states admitted to the Union weren't on an even handed slave/no slave basis as the country expanded to the west. The southerners felt that every new state should have the right to decide which way to go! States rights over a strong national government

Two; The northern industrialists were attempting to get the export of cotton outlawed so that the factories in the north could monopolize the cotton garment industry. The south wanted to be able to sell their cotton to the highest bidder which was usually European concerns. IE; a states right to control its own trade!

Three; As mentioned by one commenter the southern plantation owners were beginning to drown in debt due to the escalating cost of buying, trading, owning and maintaining the health of slaves. Human nature being human nature the plantation owners couldn't admit that their way of life was flawed! Here it was an institutional blindness that they blamed the northern efforts to control the cotton trade for! (After the civil war sharecropping turned out to be a much more profitable way of business for the northern carpetbaggers who by hook or crook took over those plantations).

Four; The Federal Government being much weaker then, the Declaration of Independence was a much more important idea in peoples minds. Remember it was only a couple of generations since the revolution. Many people had living relatives who fought to free us from foreign rule, not just British but French and Spanish too. The idea of someone distant telling you how to live your life or that what you were doing was wrong was totally unacceptable to pretty much everyone in the USA! And Yes that meant that Washington DC was considered by many to be an outsider when it came to how they lived their lives! Local thoughts, morals, churches and schools had more influence than distant government! Remember this was before telegraph, telephones or any other fast communication existed! It could take weeks or months for a letter to get from one end of the country to the other! States rights, local rights did matter a lot more to people back then! That was an issue between the north and the south.

Ultimately all wars are about power! In the west we often measure power with money, but it's still power! The south was doomed to loose the Civil War from the beginning! The north had the power, fumbled with control issues in the beginning but ultimately got their act together and prevailed.

The war destroyed the cotton industry, it took a long time for it to recover. And the Federal Government had to spend a lot of time effort and money to rebuild the south that they had destroyed. But that is the result of every war the USA has fought! Guilt (and greed) drives us to rebuilt what we destroy.

In many ways the south has risen again! Just not like it was! New industry, trade and business. The shipyards of the north are migrating to the south, and the oil industry has been there for many years. Now the aircraft industry is moving there for the cheaper living, wage and business climate.

qhml1 I enjoy your stories and essays! Keep up the good writing! Ignore the assholes!

No. Owned by Dutch and the British. The same British who were so against slavery. The same British who watched the Irish die and did not lift a finger...

Slavery in its raw form is still practiced in Africa by people who follow a supposed religion of "peace"

There are slave markets in Libya right now, open for business.

How strange we are told it is peaceful yet you cannot draw it's pedophile leader under serious and real threat of death and its followers have no problem with suicide attacks.

Even showing a picture of the degenerate child rapist got a teacher in France beheaded a few days ago.

But we are all told by left wing filth that it and they are peaceful and anyone who dares to tell the truth is a racist.

The label of racist is used by low life low IQ political extremists to silence people who do not buy into their mindless drivel.

It's meaningless now and a person can dismiss any degenerate scumbag who calls them a racist.

I too am a Southron (no, that's not misspelling) whose ancestors fought for their country, the CSA, but we're not slave holders. I still fly the Stars and Bars at my house though few recognize it. We are both likely to be sent to reeducation camps if the revisionists have their way.

Good point of view. I'd forgotten about the ships being mostly from the North. Probably Boston LOL. I'd read, a long time ago, about a swamp somewhere in a slave state, that needed to be drained, or logged or something. (I said I read it a long time ago.) Anyway the first option the people who wanted to do it had was to send slaves in. But it was tough work, snakes, gators, malaria, etc. Slaves were expensive and having them die was cutting into the bottom line. What did they do? Stop the project? Hell no, they sent in Irish immigrants - they were cheaper and they had to buy their own food and lodging out of the piss poor wages they got paid.

Capitalism can suck. Big green ones. It wasn't just slaves that took it in the neck. The Irish came here not due to a famine, but due to the loss of the potato crop. Just the spuds. The big landowners didn't care, they continued to export food to Britain in the form of beef, grain and other produce - Getting Pounds sterling was more important than feeding the common folk who grew their own food in the form of taters.

I wholeheartedly agree with your essay!!! I too descended from Germans in PA, who emigrated to Cabarrus County, NC down the same route. None of my family EVER owned a slave. My original ancestor came as an Indentured servant. My family fought in the Revolution and the Civil War. Anyone who thinks Southerners were all slave owners is just plain stupid!!!

All your little paragraph does is to show how normalised the institution of slavery was back then. but overtime we realised that acts such as slavery, infanticide, child marriage are not so moral. and thats why south gets all the flak. Just replace slavery with infanticide. would you erect statues of people who committed infanticide just because it was a prevalent during some point in history all over the place.

we are fixing to have another civil war !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! these A$$ holes trying to wipe our history out better wake up or bring their own body bad .

They are facts. How are you go to have a serious discussion about this when all your items are based on facts. There is no way your going to convince BLM or ANTIFA that their positions are nothing but Anarchy. You can"t have a debate with someone who hasn't read a book or has based their stance on the lies and misinformation provided by their vaunted leaders.....ack,ack, ( Sorry, I knew i wouldn't be able get through that description of their leaders without throwing up a little). The major majority will agree with your comments even if they don't like the past. The easiest way to silence the vocal minority is to simply ignore it. When they cross the line from vocal to physical because they are losing every argument or are just pissed at being ignored.

Then the time to re-educate them on the repercussions of trying to force their views is acceptable. And by re-educate, make it so physically painful that they will never force their views again.

You have your own views and comments, great. That's is your right to believe what ever you want. Taking away my rights to force your agenda is going to be very very painful.

I completely agree with you. I love the South, having lived in Georgia, Mississippi, Tennessee twice and now Lower Alabama. The war was not about slavery but about Northern taxation that unfairly impacted the South. I had a great uncle who was a Northern General and a distant cousin who was killed in Arkansas by northern treachery. I will take the South anytime and every time. The South is not about slavery but about our heritage - PLAIN AND SIMPLE. I fly an American flag but I have the same size flag with the Stars and Bars on it. I am proud of them both and proud to be an American but stop with trying to denegrate Southerners. Does anybody talk ugly about Bostonians?uyoayk They don’t have a particularly great history of tolerance.

People who don't know history are the first to complain about it.

Most people think slavery ended with the Emancipation Proclamation, but it did not. All the proclamation did was to nullify slavery in the territories (states) rebelling against the United States. Its purpose was to encourage the blacks held in slavery to rebel and leave. As you said, it was an economic issue. Most are not aware that slavery still existed in Maryland and Delaware for some time after the end of the civil war.

Most people also don't know that the reason many of the Irish were in the Americas early on is that they were rounded up by the English and sold as slaves in the new world, primarily in the Caribbean, but some in the colonies. In fact, until the 1800's, there were more Irish slaves in the new world than there were Africans. That is how some of my own people ended up over here. (Where do I sign up for reparations?)

Was slavery right? No. Obviously not, but wanting to judge eighteenth and nineteen century actions by twenty-first century mores is not realistic, accurate, or proper.

I personally found Boston to Birmingham a good tale. I can also state that having lived most of my life in Yankee country, but spending sixteen years in SC and GA during college and after, I find much more racism in play in the north than I did in the south. What is seen in the south may be blatant by the few who practice it, but what is practiced in the north is much more insidious, limiting advancement and opportunity when it comes to education and employment opportunities. If you doubt it, all you have to do is look at Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, Washington DC, NYC, and other cities.

What you have written here is all true. There will be many who disagree with your take on this topic. However you are correct in what you wrote. It was a dark and shameful period in our history, yet you are correct in saying that slavery has been around since the begining of time. Perhaps someday we will be able to rid our culture of this cancer.

BUT! America was the first nation to try and make the slave race seem less than human, through science, propaganda and ultimately law. Look up 'Phrenology' and the origins of the IQ test, if you don't believe me.

A nice little fiction with some facts(could give more support) however part of problems in the south are due to the fact that the daughters of the revolution and false historians contrived to put false accounts of civil war in southern schools-this reminds me of europeans allowing moslem hate preachers to incite violence for years -and then be surprised at what happens nowadays.- also the statues of traitors who should have been hung were always going to be a source of more animosity-i blame the north for that oversight ps im not american

A magnificent HISTORY. Worth reading all 3,000 pages.

As a fourth generation Northern Californian, I learned what I have come

to realize was Yankee History.

Nothing about Lincoln accurately saying, "The Civil War was caused by taxes."

(Congress's northern majority voted itself a major chunk of southern cotton profits--a money grab.

(20 %?) The southern states exercised their opt-out clause. Which, of course, was outvoted again. So the southern states appealed to the decisive next higher level.

Before getting their hearing? The shooting started.)

As another Brit, and I know we seem to come across as less than viceral in this debate, I don't understand the emotion in this debate. It's as pointless as getting upset because a female mantis ate her mate.

a) It's perfectly normal in mantis society.

b) How does your emotion affect anything about the action?

c) How can your emotion change the outcome of what has already happened?

Yes there was slavery. There always has been all the way back to prehistoric days. Yes, every single society without fail has in the past effectively practiced slavery. Yes, some still do. Yes, it's uncomfortable. No, your emotion over your discomfort has no bearing whatsoever on what happened. Yes, you can make sure it doesn't happen again - that is the true lesson that history teaches.

I know the Brits practiced slavery for many years, and became wealthy in part because of it. I also know they declared it illegal and used a quarter of their gross national product - of a whole empire - one year to buy the freedom of every slave in British hands. But I can't be ashamed of or proud of either. History is not a football match, and no matter how much you cheer for or applaud for one side or decry the other, it's not going to change a thing. It's as pointless as going to watch 'Titanic' and hoping they steer clear of the iceberg this time.

So what is this debate really about? Is it one side trying to get digs in on the other because of something happening now? Is it another side trying to protest their personal dissatisfaction with their life?

From what I've read, both options are squarely on the table.

But this is history, and your personal feelings mean squat in the discussion. Debate the facts and not your feelings.

Otherwise you end up with a President.

Would you please read the articles of secession before claiming that the CW wasn't about slavery? Thanks.

Slavery in Europe and North America could not have existed without the delivery of African slaves, by fellow Africans, to the coast.

Your point regarding Indentured or bond servants is well made. That type of slavery existed well into the 20th century.

.....To see someone not fearful of using historical information in a story. Our history books have been altered now till they quite resemble fiction, moreso than history. There are only a couple of generations now that remember a time when, as ugly as it was, history was taught in schools, instead of this watered down agenda driven mockery of historical facts. Lee never owned a slave and was instrumental in, with his wife, opening numerous schools to teach former slaves basic and advanced courses enabling them to compete in employment and even business ownership. Something few will admit, but the main reason the south hesitated to release slaves as ordered. They had hoped their resistance until education and grants were promised so that they (former slaves) could survive would be successful, but ended up having to do it themselves. (Why many former slaves fought for tge south as free men) Few will admit that the north held their slaves for 5 yrs after abolition, sending them out penniless and without the education of their southern counterparts. I find it funny that people believe now that the Civil War was fought over slavery instead of the taxation of slaves that were no longer enslaved. They south had released 75% of held slaves at the time the CW began. I guess our generation will be the last to know the facts. How it would blow their minds to know that Pres. Lincoln attempted the largest mass murder of all time by a leader over land a friend wanted, nothing more. Instead they made him the sle hero of the era. Yet with all the good Lee did in his life, his leadership of the south, during a war that has been bastardized is all he will be known for. So sad. Thank you for having the courage to write about it, however minimally, and for doing so with a nod to fact.

It has no choice but to rise with the predatory tax incentives that draw factories to the cheap labor pools.

The problem are the fucking neo-nazi/aryan brotherhood cunts that crawl out of the woodwork anytime someone mentions that it might not be a good idea to idolize someone that liked to hang a certain color of person from a tree. When y'all fix that, we can talk.

What you said is true to a degree, while the southerners did not invent slavery, they did take it to another level. To control the slaves they took their identity from them by busting up any groups from the same tribes so that the slaves were with other slaves that they could not communicate with. And not allowing them to speak in their native tongue. And at no time during any of the other times of slavery was that done to a people. The effects of that is still felt today by Black people in America. Then from there black people was not taught of the accomplishment they have made in this country in the schools, at least not while I went. And after slavery we had him crowlaw for a 100 years to keeps us in our place. While I don’t think you are a racist for mentioning slavery in your story, and I have read that story so I do not know the content of how it was presented. But I do know that racism is a live and well in this country and it is amazing that some white people believe that black people should get over what happen to them as a people when it has only been 50 years that we finally gotten almost equal rights after 100’s of years having no rights and being treated as property, then as 3rd class citizens with low intelligence .

The war was definitely fought over slavery. The right the south didn't want taken away was the right to own slaves. The Republicans were staunchly anti-slavery, and the election of Lincoln, and the refusal of any more compromises, precipitated the war. Denying this is simply denying historical fact.

With that said, even at the absolute height of slavery, 97% of Americans did not nor ever had owned a slave. Slaves were very much the purview of the wealthy. The war was fought mostly in the south, and most of the soldiers were poor folks, fighting against what they saw as an invading army.

Interesting and straightforward. Those that are currently removing statues of Confederate soldiers refuse to acknowledge that the War between the States [ Sometimes referred to as the war of northern aggression :-) ] could possibly have been fought for reasons other than the defense of slavery by the South. A small percentage of the soldiers actually owned slaves and those from slave owning families totaled only around one third. It is hard to logically explain why two thirds of the soldiers fighting for the Confederacy were doing so to defend owning something they did not have.

Slavery was bad but as stated it has been around since humans first decided to conquer other humans and the US South did not have a monopoly on slavery with it being outlawed by Great Britain only in the first half of the 19th century.

Shortly after my wife died. I took a little trip. Okay, I spent 9 months most of a 100000 dollars and 46000 miles just traveling the United States. As far south as Florida. As far west as North Dakota, as far east as the Atlantic ocean, and north, well, I ran out of the United States. In my travels, I realize that people are just people. There are good, they're bad. A corn field looks the same in south Carolina as it does in New York. And ironic enough, it looks the same in Kansas.

So what does this have to do with the conversation at hand? As people are people, assholes are assholes. Sir, you have caused for me a whole hell of a lot of enjoyment. You've made me laugh, you made me cry, you made me think. Screw everybody else. You keep doing you. Let the whiners whine. Let the bitches bitch. And please, Sir, let the writers write.

I've lived on all four points of the compass and in the Midwest and traveled internationally. Am now a proud 30-year southerner (both Carolinas) who has observed far more than the average person.

For what it's worth, I find your comments to be clear, concise and accurate. Glad you made the history much more understandable. Hopefully, people will read and understand what you've so clearly explained.

The original article. And I almost never read all comments when there are 78. So interesting I read all 78. At 69 years old and having a master's degree, I think I'm now better informed. Not that my actual viewpoint has changed so much. Leaves me wondering how the usual American can be "well informed" from the 30 second sound/video bites and the "objective" views of our media. Leaves me wondering how those usual Americans can come to agreement even if they were well informed, when even commenters on Literotica who claim "the facts" as the basis of their opinions have such divergent views. Agree with comment about us/US more divided than since (un)Civil War. Hate to be negative fatalist, but don't see it getting better in future. Right stays to right and left gets further left and the rhetoric in our civilized society gets more uncivilized and hateful (including some of comments on Literotica).

This ends on negative note (my feeling).

Most interesting read, though.

Did not know what to rate the article. Now know. 5 stars. Both for the article and that it could engender such discussion.

Paul in Oklahoma

I'm a fourth generation Northern Californian. No axe to grind about All This.

Now living in Nashville. Because I'm a songwriter.

Just read Shelby Foote's "The Civil War: A Narrative"...3 volumes. 3,000 pages.

Read that. BTW, no more than 20% of Southerners owned slaves?

The vast majority of Confederates were defending their homes and families

against hundreds of thousands blue-clad Invaders who were grabbing their crops, burning their homes, and killing their families?

Oh...That's what really occurred.?!

For me, FACTS overrule hype. Every time.

The "history" I grew up with now reads like press releases from a government agency.

You really are a talented writer... A couple of your stories really are works of art... But sadly... After reading your rebutal... I cant in good conscience read any more of your offerings... The sad thing is that i get the feeling that you're a fairly decent person... But you just don't get it... Slavery in america can't be rationalized by comparing it to other evil acts... It's amazing how intellingent people can grasp onto some of the most unintelligent ideas... And the perpetrators of this vile institution... There is absolutely no way of excusing them... Which is pretty much what you tried to do... Its a shame... Cause you are such a good writer...

-jaye-

Generals vs. slave owners.

On the one hand there are no statues of Hitler any where in Germany except maybe in a museum. And I doubt swastika flags are flying from flag poles in people's front yards. So why is it ok for generals of the CSA to have statues honoring them.

On the other hand, just because a man served and fought in the German army in WWII, does that make him equal to Hitler? I think not.

Therefore not all members of the CSA mitilary were evil. Don't forget, in in the early 1800s, slavery was legal every where in the USA. Even in the north. And when Lincoln freed the slaves with the Emancipation Proclomation, he only freed the slaves in the secession states, not the north. And yes there were slaves in the north. Just not nearly as many.

The south never wanted to destroy the USA. It did however want the right to keep slavery. Imagine if you eared a living making and selling whiskey just before prohibition, and the new law was going to eliminate your job, your livelihood and any investment you had made in your factory. This is what the spit was facing. It is easy to see why the wanted to secede. Slavery is repugnant.

When all the crap was going on in C'ville, a friend of mine asked in passing "What's next, protest against Jefferson and Washington because they were slave owners?"

Well as it turns out the answer is yes, students(?) at UVA protested Jefferson as a "racist and a rapist" and draped his statue in black. And according to a comment on the Today show this morning, somewhere in our great nation some locality is considering changing the name of a school from Washington because he owned slaves.

Slavery was / is repugnant. It should not have happened 200 years ago and it should not happen now. And yes , it is still happening in some places around the world.

Over 6 million Africans were sold into slavery and shipped over seas. Only about 400 thousand were sold in the US. (Over time they grew to over 4 million through procreation.) Most of the rest went to central and South America as well as the carribean.

Slaves in the US had a life sentence. The chance of freedom was almost non-exsistant.

Slaves in the other Americas had a death sentence. They were worked 7 days a week 50 weeks a year. It was cheaper to buy a new one than to care for an exsisting one. There was no rest, no winter, no life.

Slavery is repugnant in any form. It should be eliminated every where.

There is a movement in the US that is pushing to eliminate any thing and everything that is connected to slavery. This includes statues, flags and maybe soon, American presidents who owned slaves.

Slavery is / was repugnant, but a little common sense would be nice.

By the way, to paraphrase Tine Fey on SNL Weekend Update, let the idiot white extremist have their protest. Don't go to listen to or protest against them. Let them shout their message to an empty microphone in an empty street. How much TV time would that get.

I'm struggling to understand what's going on in the US at the moment, with the proposed disposal of statues of Lee, Jackson and monuments to Confederate soldiers. I sort of understand how some African Americans may have an issue but it all seems pretty much over the top from Over the Pond. How do Southerners feel about the slur against their family who may have fought for the Confederacy without any particular liking for slavery?

Basic fact, humans have long memories especially when retribution is involved.

Curiously absent when the Deconstructors of History start clamoring about how poorly muslims were treated during the Crusades is the causal event that led to those campaigns.

The Moorish(Muslim) invasion of Europe. The sole professed purpose of which was to eradicate Christianity and the lighter skinned followers of that religion.

Though some younger males were castrated and enslaved, most were butchered in front of their families. All females were repeatedly raped and impregnated over generations.

Nothing done to the muslims during Crusades comes close to the horrors visited upon the inhabitants of the Iberian Peninsula by the Moorish invaders.

If not for Charlemagne's father a similar fate would have been visited upon the rest of Western Civilization.

Your history lesson (much appreciated, by the way) stopped just short. Most everyone forgets that the party of racism right up to the mid-60's was the Democratic Party. Bull Connors and George Wallace stood for segregation until the troops moved them. It wasn't until LBJ noticed that all those blacks had votes to cast that the Democratic Party became the party of the oppressed minority. Not surprisingly, they still view everything through a filter of race.

Q, I have to agree with you about the election. I looked at the slate of candidates early on and didn't find a one worth spit. (Maybe Kasich, but I'm not sure about him). Anyway, until Election Day, I was planning to vote Libertarian or Green or None of the Above. At the last minute, I changed my vote to vote against Hillary. Apparently, a lot of folks did the same. It was a choice of the Wicked Bitch of the East or PT Barnum. Welcome to the circus.

Finally, I live in Texas. People are moving here in droves to escape the mess that is their former state. However, they bring their voting preferences unchanged. Soon, I fear, Texas (and many other Southern states) will be falling rather than rising. Look at New Hampshire and tell me how I'm wrong. JPR

And I haven't been politically correct since the Free Speech Movement in Berkeley. Some people have an opinion. Some follow along like Lemmings. We, in this Country, find ourselves more divided then at any time since the Civil War. And nobody, especially our Political Leaders, seems to know how to negotiate or compromise. We've elected a business man that leads by Twitter and really cares only about his money. I'd say "God help us all" but that would be both socially unacceptable and politically incorrect. Have a day.

And this topic is till hotly debated. The comments by and large on either side have been for the most part concise and well reasoned. A few weren't. Doesn't matter. I personally am glad it struck some kind of nerve with so many people.

I have since come to believe that life in our plutocracy is heading towards economic slavery of the highest order. And as with almost all plutocracies, revolution is never far away. In my opinion, the recent presidential race pushed it into sharper focus. The shrinking middle class, mostly middleaged white people who were tired of their lifestyle eroding away, and when Trump offered them what they wanted, they jumped on the bandwagon. What we forgot was our new leader is himself a member of that plutocracy. I myself voted for neither, flashing back to the Richard Pryor remake of the old classic "Brewsters' Millions', where he had to waste a certain amount of money to gain much more. One of his money waters was to run for office, and then make himself and the other candidates look less than appealing, finally running ads urging the voters to vote for "None Of The Above', which is what I wrote in on my ballot. A waste, I know. I'm almost sixty-two, and have voted in every elections since I was eighteen, but I just couldn't make myself vote for either candidate.

Oh, and for all the people who labeled me an apologist, I have to wonder what they thought I was apologizing for. Stating facts? Avoiding revisionist history? It was what it was.

My great grandfather and his brother were both in the Army of Norther Virginia, and were with Lee all the way to Appomattox Court House. Their rank and regiment is inscribed on their headstones, just as all veterans of all wars are remembered.

Please, have a socially acceptable politically correct day.

Q

Yes, slavery was the primary economic system for almost all larger agricultural "nation-states" throughout history - from the ancient Egyptians to classical Greeks (Plato's utopian "Republic" depended on slaves to do all the boring work) to the pagan Roman Empire to the Aztecs, Incas, and Mayans.

But it WAS actually Christianity (especially Catholic Christianity) that successfully fought against and eventually eliminated slavery within "Christendom" - Medieval Europe. It was only Christianity that moved Roman Empire economic slavery to non-slavery by 1200AD. Thomas Aquinas by then had directly articulated that slavery WAS a sin - but it then only existed on the fringes of Europe - the few pagan Vikings in the North and the Islamic world to the South. See this for more details:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/julyweb-only/7-14-53.0.html

Also read Stark's book "The Victory of Reason".

So where did it all go so wrong starting in the 16th century and the new form of colonial RACIST slavery? It started with Luther and the Protestant Reformation and the inevitable "throwing the baby out with the bath water." The Magesterium of the Church - official Catholic doctrine and authority got very much weakened and the supposed "Age of Enlightenment" soon followed.

Here's the funny part - ALL the revered "libertarian" philosophers of that "Age" were actually racists - who believed as just "science" that basically WASPS (White Anglo Saxon Protestants) were superior and every other race inferior (including White Irish.)

This includes Locke, Kant, Hume, Voltaire, Jefferson, etc. etc. etc.

Compare Locke's investing in the Royal African Company and writing the Aristocratic slave-owning constitution of the Carolinas with his OTHER works on individual freedom and equality for "all" - all WASPs, actually - with the arguments of Bartolome de las Casas in the Valladolid debate - arguing successfully that Amer-Indians WERE fully human and deserving of all human rights despite their own level of societal development.

Even after the Civil War (again look up Georgia US Senator Alexander Stephens and his 1861 "Cornerstone speech") philosophical scientific racism merely morphed into "hard science" Eugenics racism which absolutely "proved" the truth of White superiority over all the other "lesser" races - the Yellow, Brown, Red, and Black races - in that order. Read just about ANY college level biology textbook published before 1950.

The actual purveyors of racism in the "modern" world - at least until WW2 was finished - were the liberal secular humanist scientists and politicians - all those Dem icons like Woodrow Wilson and FDR. It wasn't "ignorant Rednecks" or "fundamentalist Christians" or any OTHER kind of knowledgeable Christian and especially Catholics who fomented this crime - accept that many DID participate as either common sinners or misled by the same science that HAD been correct in so many other areas. But not this one.

..... brook no argument, except among those deluded zealots hiding behind the States Rights myth as the justification for tens of thousands of deaths (my southern family members included) in a war to preserve the abomination of slavery and wealth of a privileged few. Slavery was the cause of the Civil War, just as Catholic Church greed was for the Crusades.

Facts eventually prevail.

When that line comes up?

My answer is..."The South Already Done Riz..."

Presidents, heroes in all fields, an Olympics...In what way hasn't The South risen?

The idea of one person owning another has become anathema since the middle of the 19th century...before that (and in some places, since then), it was just accepted as fact of life!

In the United States South, it had another chilling effect. It fostered a cash-poor economy (in which slaves were often a measure of economic wealth and societal importance).

It took a Civil War to start the repairing process.

To all those busting your chops, ask them if they know how many slaves you own or have owned! It might not shut the knuckleheads up, but might make you laugh a little.

The problem as I see it is the Lost Cause apologetics that claim that African chattle slavery had little or nothing to do with sesession and the Civil War (War of Northern Aggression). This nonsence started with Jubal Early.

Four Confederate states passed formal Statements of Reasons for Sesession. All four were adopted at the same time as and by exactly the same conventions that enacted the Ordinences of Sesession. All four state clearly and unblushingly that the prospect of federal interference with slavery was the reason for sesession. Yet in the South you still hear to the contrary, as I did repeatedly on a recent trip.

Don't y'all think your ancestors knew why they did what they did?

Well just read this story 3 years after it was posted. My what a raucous comment section ! I am a Son of the South, I've traced 11 ancestors who fought for the confederacy ( and 4 for the Union). Not one of those ancestors was beyond the rank of Capt. , only 2 were officers. None of my ancestors, that I've been able to research had any high standing in the leadership of either side of the conflict. Did find 2 who were slave holders, but apparently on a small scale. Now with my skeletons laid bare for all to see, will someone please tell me where MY actual sin comes in ?

How does one be convicted as so many commentators on this posting seem to think that I should be ? Half of my family tree were from East Tennessee , which was actually a stronghold of unionist , which is where 3 of the 4 ancestors who fought for the union come in. They were actually seven Union regiments of Tennesseans who were well decorated during the war ( Homegrown Yankees : Tennessee's Union cavalry in the civil war by James Alex Baggett ) , does this lessen the stain on my soul ? Not in the eyes of the know everything crowd that has commented over the years since this was posted !

The simple ( I know that nothing is ever simple in this discussion) fact is that slavery in various forms is as old as the Human animal ! Everyone reading my words have ancestors who were war like invaders of their neighbors lands. They killed and enslaved their enemies , and acted in ways that our civilized minds can simply not fathom today.

But , that base part of the human psyche is still there in every homo sapiens that still walk the planet ! We as a species are capable of barbaric acts on our fellow man , its just a cold hard truth ! One has only to look at the Syrian conflict of today where over half a million souls have perished ! Look at the Bloody conflict in Rwanda in the 90's when a million people were slaughtered in just a few months ! Bosnia, Sudan , East Timor , and many others in just the last 20 years in our so called " civilized " world of today.

And slavery is alive and well as I right this in March of 2016. The Boko Haram rebels in Nigeria famously raided a school and took hundreds of teenaged girls into slavery recently. ISIS fighters in Iraq and Syria have been well documented as having pressed their captives into slavery in the last few years. These groups were far from the Antebellum South as could possibly be ! These are only a couple of incidents of modern slavery, there are too many more for me to even begin to list !

So what I'm trying to say ( not very well I'm afraid) is that the human condition is not a simple black and white thing, there are thousands of different shades of gray between the two.

Very lively discussion you have begun Qhml1.

Cpprcrk

Slavery in the South was different because it was indeed "racist" slavery.

And unfortunately the genesis of this "scientific/philosophic" racism was the Enlightenment Philosophers - seizing on Aristotle's "some men were made to be slaves and others their masters." John Locke wrote the Charter for the Carolinas and held stock in "The African Company." It was Protestants and then purely atheistic secular humanists who led all this racist slavery and NOT the Roman Catholic Church.

Look up Bartolome de las Casas and the Valladolid debate.

Look up "racism of the Enlightenment Philosophers."

Read what "the Cornerstone" of the Confederacy was in Alexander Stephens 1861 Cornerstone Speech.

Consider the whole Eugenics science movement of the 20th century - where slavery had ended but scientific racism continued right along and drove all those anti-misegenation laws like Virginia's 1924 "Racial Integrity Act."

Also google "the Truth about the Catholic Church and slavery" and read the article by historian Rodney Stark.

Indentured servants most certainly did want to come; it's why they agreed. That said, they were basically slaves until they completed their contracts.

There is a cadre of people who go around looking for reasons to call people racist, sexist, etc. Some of them have found a way to make money at it. Never apologize to these people. You'll know them by how they behave. Some call them Social Justice Warriors, others call them the PC police. They are liars and frauds.

I read your work; you owe them nothing. No apologies, no explanations. Any rational adult would not read what they have into your work.

over 4 million (i think the number is closer to 8 milion) africans were shipped across the atlantic in slavery.

onlt 450,000 were sold into slaverey in the usa / colonies.

slavery in the usa was deplorable, and a life sentence.

however,

slavery in the tropics was deplorable and a death sentence.

in the tropics,

slaves work the sugar plantations ,

and they were worked to death,

day in and day out.

there was never any down time.

there was no winter rest period.

relative to the tropics,

slave life in the usa was so ''good'',

the slave population grew well beyond the half million that were ''imported''.

this was not typically the case in the tropics.

there, they were worked to death,

and then when the plantation owners needed more,

they went and bought another one.

of course this does not mean some slaves in the usa were not worked to death.

slavery in the usa was deplorable.

but so is slavery in africa today, and everywhere else it exists in the world.

just google ''human trafficking'' and read up, to see how large a problem it is.

i do not know that my ancestors owned slaves,

but it would not surprise me if they did.

i'm not proud of it,

but i'm not ashamed of it either.

i have never owned a slave.

and i have been taught it is wrong to do so.

now if i could just bring myself to buy ''free trade'' coffee.

Very well written and documented. You mentioned that your people were share croppers which like the indentured were defacto slaves themselves. as history shows some masters were humane but many were not.

Ed Grocott

edgrocott@gmail.com

Spot on with your explanation.

No, YOU'RE just trying to justify what YOU want to see!

NOTHING in "Boston To Birmingham" tries to justify slavery or to suggest that the slaves had any sort of love for their masters.

Were there SOME masters who treated some or all of their slaves with SOME degree of care and affection, and/r some slaves who developed SOME degree of affection for their master? I've not made a study of it, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if so! In ANY case, even if true, it certainly would justify slavery, and I don't believe that qhml1 was trying to do that.

And it IS a historical fact, as Q says, that many of the slave ships were owned and manned by Northerners, and the initial capture of the saves was at least usually carried out by fellow Africans. Check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade

you're just justifying what you wish to believe.. and rationalizing so that you feel no guilt for what you've already written... my main problem with your story was your pushing of the idea that those darkies were happy and well fed and that darkie girls just loved massa coming down to poke them... often times making their husband qnd kids watch... i have more respect for outright racists that just say to my face that they dont like my color... i don't doubt that you think that you're an enlightened moral person... but your elaborate excuses for the south paint a picture of a person that i don't think i'd like being friends with..

Here's the ultimate kicker.

I really hate liberals. Really and truly. They've built their platform out of special interests, and nearly all those interests claim some aggrieved victim status of some sort. It's handy when it comes to raising money, getting out some votes, and hell, why argue with someone over the facts when you can just scream "racist!" and walk off a winner? And there are many people very invested in keeping the racism alive; race hustlers like Al Sharpton (he's no Rev in my eyes).

The problem is that the race card has been played for far too long and too often. Like how it's all about "white privilege" now, how white people are all racists just because they are white, like if I said all black people were retarded, would that be racist? Odd...one sweeping generality is racist, yet another is not. And it's remarkable how one set of self appointed victim industry people have supposedly taken on the mantle of all knowing grand poo-bah, and their judgments are not to be questioned.

So now, when anyone speaks of race in any form, if they are not one of the "entitled" class, that speech is to be shouted down and drowned out regardless of validity or truth. Today, it's about some thug in Ferguson who messed with the bull and got the horns, but tomorrow it's some obscure writer in Literotica.

Here's the sum up.....true racists don't want a conversation on racism. They want to dictate how they are victims, everyone else is an oppressor, and they are quick to pile on and subjugate anyone who speaks out. But what they haven't noticed, hell, maybe they just are incapable of seeing it, is that most people are tired of the hype and bullshit. Tired of being manipulated, tired of being accused of things they do not do, but mostly tired of being forced to give a shit about a condition which hasn't existed in this country since 1865.

I don't own slaves. To the best of my knowledge, no one in my family ever has, either. I don't know any slaves, or parents of slaves, or grandparents of slaves. When I see an actual situation of slavery or racism, then I'll give a shit. Until then, I owe no-one a damned thing, I'm not responsible for what anyone else has done in any generation, and anyone who tries to impress responsibility for their made up victimhood status on me will get served a large and hot steaming bowl of "shut the fuck up." Further attempts will only get that person a side order of "go fuck yourself," and the really persistent will get a double helping of "may you be rectally relieved by a syphilitic boar." Twice.

And to the author, I say....fuck it. Write what you want, be responsible for your fuckups, and tell the grievance industry tards to go fuck themselves.

I don't think there is any culture that hasn't practiced slavery in one form or other at some time in their history.

We all live in glass houses so let us stop throwing stones and learn to live with each other - in peace!

I am a southern man, and I'm damn proud of it. My ancestors owned slaves. I have four ancestors who served in the military during the War of 1861-1865; three went with the South, one with the North. I'm proud of all four.

Slavery in the USA was benign when compared to other places. In Brazil they had to continuously import more slaves because they worked the ones they had to death. Here in America the slave population was so healthy and so well treated it was able to reproduce itself. Most slaves did not live on huge plantations, but on small farms. For a young southern man to be able to buy a slave it was like being able to buy a better horse. One did not mistreat a horse. In most cases the first slave purchase was a female; someone to help out with the kids.

The War Between the States wasn't about slavery; it was about the 'racial readjustment question'. No one knew what to do with 4 million hapless black people once they would be set free. They just weren't competent to manage on their own; many still aren't. They needed, and regrettably still need to be managed. The descendants of our slave population do not make our country stronger or better; we are weaker because of their current circumstances. I might add it's not their fault.

Most southerners served in southern armies, not because of slavery, but because they didn't want a bunch of northerners telling them what to do. Southern whites, true southern whites, are usually Anglo-Saxon or Scottish. They, we, don't see things the way some other people do. Yes, we have our own customs.

I read some of the crap some 'anon' wrote about 'Kush'. He's misinformed; if the people of Kush had a language, there is evidence they did, it hasn't been deciphered. Hippocrates was Greek, and most likely a light haired blue eyed Dorian. Cleopatra was Greek too. Imhotep was an Egyptian, but they very clearly asserted that they were not black! Ancient Egyptians held the black people of Nubia and Kush in very low regard. There are ancient 'stele' along the Nile that forbade the movement of black people north of certain points.

Don't get me wrong. I am not a bigot. I am honest, and I am a realist. I am glad the South lost. I don't think black people have had the same opportunities as whites. We as a nation have never adequately addressed our 'black problem'. We most likely never will; the financial costs to appropriately educate and acclimate our black fellow citizens is considered too great by those who run our country. Regrettably many believe it's cheaper to incarcerate them.