All Comments on 'Esther and Star Ch. 03'

Oh come on! That is completely messed up. She virtually admits that she took advantage of him by taking her frustration out on him and he's still the only one making an effort in their marriage? Yes, they had a fun moment at their date but I really hope to start seeing some changes. I mean, he admits he was a dick. He admits that he knew no signs to look for in pleasing his wife and he even agreed to 'turn a blind eye' to the fact that his wife is sleeping with his sister. Yet, somehow he's still more in the wrong? I agree, his wife was dealt a bad hand by being kicked from both her religion and family, but how can she still be the more sympathetic one in this. This isn't a situation where there is a right or wrong person, they both are at fault and instead of him saying this, he's falling on his sword left and right. At first, I thought this could all be resolved but the only resolution that makes sense is one where they divorce and go about there own. Star is gonna have to realize that not all problems can be worked out and sometimes it needs to end.

I love how your characters are complicated and growing. This is a fun read.

Only one person is making an effort in the marriage and it's not Esther. Star is still manipulating the situation to her benefit, she seems to even be bragging about it. The training at this point just seems to be a consolation prize for her stealing Esther away. If she really cared about her brother and wanted to save his marriage, she wouldn't be doing shit with Esther while they were still married. Unfortunately it seems he is too dumb to notice it. Cucked by your own sister, a sister who claims to want to help... Shameful.

This dolt has a cheating wife, a sister who is cucking him as well as manipulating and using both of them for her bi urges. The next time his sister calls him dumbass, he should punch her lights out divorce his dyke wife and hit the road.

Ok. Yeah. This is no healthy for anyone here (having read some of the author's other work now, its not looking good for a situation where Esther and Patrick end up together).

Here is what we know. Star was, an abusive asshole when they were younger, and Patrick took the bulk of it. From what we've been told in chapter 2 she toned it down to keep him out of legal trouble, and to keep him from being sent away, but we've seen no indication that Star has ever actually apologized or made serious efforts at reconciliation with her brother for the abuse she inflicted. Furthermore, We know that she didn't make a statement to the court about why Patrick attacked J&J, which is a further abuse of their relationship.

The worst part of all of this? Star hasn't internalized what she is putting her brother through. Not in the least. She's latched on to the idea that she is 'helping' and that Esther isn't a 'real lesbian', and this ignores any evidence to the contrary. Is this impacted by the fact that she was (we presume) attacked by J&J? Could be. We know that it caused her to swear off of men outside of the strip club, and she could very well be projecting.

The Email. Wow. Yeah, Patrick did the right thing there, and forced her to confront what was happening (giving Esther control over sending it was respecting Esther's agency in a way that she hasn't been respecting his). Hopefully Esther is able to confront the situation Star has made, and own up to her infidelity. Does Esther know about the situation between Star and Patrick? That could be a big sticking point, but she's in no position to judge - she made a decision that sleeping with her husband's sister is more important than with her husband. Having made her bed, now she has to lie in it. She gets some leeway for having just started to discover her agency, but it's still bad judgement calls.

To go with what Anon (Subject line: "Bryan") and c4vetteman94 have said so far, Star isn't just offering the 'training' as a consolation prize, but as a bribe. She's bribing him to let her continue to fuck his wife. Were he to put up a backbone, there are a few options he could offer. the first is that if Esther wants to continue to have sex with Star (which, based on the title of the story, I find this is of ever increasing likelihood), then he needs to divorce Esther, and get the fuck out of that apartment. It's not healthy for any of them for that to happen. The other option is that if she wants to be married to him, she's got to stop seeing his sister. If she wants to talk to someone about sex, and get help, there are councilors and therapists. As far as we know, Star's only experience is being abused, and the swearing off guys except in situations where she is in control (hence the 'teaching' of Patrick where she gets to be in charge). Alas, Star, who we can presume didn't get any therapy following her attack, is just continuing a cycle of abuse that started earlier. The more I think about it, even if Esther and Patrick stay married, they need to get out of the place where Star is. She's a terrible human being, and is making things worse, and alas neither Patrick nor Esther have the experience to see it. I admit, while I have cut friends loose when retaining a relationship with them is no longer health I've never had to do that with a partner or with family, I know it is hard, certainly for Esther who has no support infrastructure, but Patrik needs to get away from his sister.

Continuity Error (author & editor, please read even though it is long):

We can piece together a rough timeline of Star's senior year / Patrick's freshman year in that Star is wildly popular with the guys, and at the same time abusive to her younger brother for quite some time leading into November. We know in 'late November" she asks him to rough-up J&J (which we can start to presume were her abusers). This timeline actually has a big problem. Patrick is stated to get out of Juvie on Christmas and have spent 40 days there. Now. Even if we presume that he was rounding up, the lowest we could reasonably go for a '40 day' stay is 35 days. Even if we include the two days he spent not in Juvie in the 35 days, we have another day that does need to be added (Star asked on Sunday, Patrick attacked J&J on Monday). That puts the day of asking no later than 26 days before December 25th, or November 19th. Now, while that is in the second half of November, I don't know anyone who would call this late November. Maybe 'middle of' November, or 'the back half of' November, but not 'late' November. This gets problematic as we see later.

It gets even worse if we presume that the 40 days in Juvie were in fact, 40 days, and we add the two prior days that he spent in jail independently. While this represents the earliest the events could have happened, we are looking at 43 days prior to Christmas (one day between being asked and doing it, two days in jail prior to transfer to Juvie, and 40 days in Juvie), or November 12. That's in the front half of November.

Now, keep in mind we are dealing with outliers here, but we also know that he spends 'two days' in jail after the attack (which might not include the day of?) and, what is presumably a full day in Juvie prior to his juvie arraignment ("So, I went to a juvenile holding cell, spending another night there before my new arraignment.")

This is breaks down a later schedule. While Thanksgiving falls on a different date every year, it always falls on a Thursday - and we've got three days after the Monday of the attack accounted for (leading to the conclusion that the Juvie arraignment is on a Thursday). Courts are, by and large, not open on Thanksgiving. The earliest Thanksgiving can be is the 22nd (as was the case in 2018), and the latest is the 28th (as was the case in 2019). We can't squeeze in the events as taking place after Thanksgiving even if we wanted to (We've only got 30 days to work with because Thanksgiving is always on a Thursday, so there are at least thee days between Thanksgiving and Monday when the attack takes place). This means that the attack has to take place prior to Thanksgiving, but not on the week of. Had the author been more clear, we might be able to stick the Juvie arraignment on a Friday after Thanksgiving, but then that would have been something to mention as something Patrick dealt with for his sister. It would make clean things up, but make Star a whole lot less sympathetic.

Given that this wasn't mentioned, I am going to presume that these events took place the week before Thanksgiving, the best we can do is something like 2019, with the latest possible Thanksgiving (to move the event a week and a half before Thanksgiving as late as possible). While this results in the day that Star asks Patrick to do the deed on J&J on the 17th of November (the earliest ask, given a week and a half pre-Thanksgiving lead time is the 12th, which means that all of the possible asks that take place the week before Thanksgiving fall into a date range that is acceptable given the earlier calculations based on Christmas, and the 40 days before). Here is the problem - none of these dates qualify, by any real measure, as 'late' November.

All in all, while this section is better than the first two, the author seems unable to make Patrick (who, while the narrator, is not at this point, the protagonist) standup for himself for more than a few paragraphs. If that doesn't get better, I am likely to drop the story. It is obvious that the author knows how to write, but the content while improving isn't uplifting. This may actually be something the author has a problem with in general, as the it came up in Honest-Honest, but it didn't in In-Fucking-Insane. Hard to come up with an incest story that is remotely cohesive and 'real' that isn't between broken people, but in this story for a guy who was so obstinate growing up to not be able to sit down and make the calls he needs to make is hard to follow.

If I'm going to type fifteen-hundred word responses over errotic literature, I think I should really get an account.

I'll give you credit for developing the characters. If it were me writing this I would have either killed her off or I would have had him just leave the two girls together and go on to lead a happy life with a lady that didn't require that level of attention.

We clearly see where she wants to be. Let her stay with star, kiss star good by and leave as quickly as you can and don't leave your new phone number with either of them. No one is worth that much work, absolutely no one.

Please let the story die, you're just promoting this kind of neediness and male or female, they are not worth it.

Everyone has an opinion, that's mine.

Why do most people want a happy ending in this story? The 2 women (wife & sister) have him wrapped around their finger and he trusts them both. He wants to make his wife happy but it’s been mentioned several times in the story he does not love her. Star holds the cards in where this is going as it is obvious both her brother and his wife are in love with her. If this has a kum ba ya happy ending it would be a shame. If Star was to go into Femdom mode? Wow! Just saying.

the "new" elements in this story are quite interesting, pointing out both sexual and nonsexual transformation.

Fun to read. Interesting to contemplate how I proceed versus how Star is instructing "Hatrick" to behave.

I noted earlier 'Does Esther know about the situation between Star and Patrick?' I think I underplayed this, but a better question to add is 'Does Esther know what Star's night job is?' If she does, does she know that Patrick knows? Hell, because we don't know what Esther and Star talk about, we don't have answers to these questions, and furthermore, because our illustrious narrator isn't standing up for himself (the closest he came to standing up to the two of them was when he was ready to kill Star, which was not a good moment), unless Star or Esther volunteer the information, we won't know.

There was a beat in the Dr. Who episode "The Last of the TimeLords" that I think fits really well here:

> MARTHA: Because the thing is, it's like my friend Vicky. She lived with this bloke, student housing, there were five of them all packed in, and this bloke was called Sean. And she loved him. She did. She completely adored him. Spent all day long talking about him.

> DOCTOR: Is this going anywhere?

> MARTHA: Yes. Because he never looked at her twice. I mean, he liked her, but that was it. And she wasted years pining after him. Years of her life. Because while he was around, she never looked at anyone else. And I told her, I always said to her, time and time again, I said, get out. So this is me, getting out.

Our Narrator needs to demonstrate Agency, and get out.

every way but literally. Poor bastard. His childhood abuser is literally fucking his wife under his roof. It's amazing.

This is a bad situation getting worse by the day. Why would any man put up with being thrown aside like garbage so his wife can take lesbianism 101 from his sister. What really bothers me the most is this guy feels useless in the bedroom as being all his fault. His wife has never 1 time let him do any kind of foreplay on her. Most women are all about the kissing and the licking before they actually let you enter their pussy with your dick. Isn't it funny though that the first chance she got, she let star eat her pussy and guess what she has her first real orgasm. She actually got dripping wet then. Hell he was a VIRGIN when they married because she didn't want to have sex until she was married. This problem is more hers than it is his. He needs to let his balls drop and divorce this bitch then move the hell away from both of these crazy women. Maybe take 1 more lesson from star just to see if she will actually let him fuck her and if so just absolutely blow her mind give it to her hard. Then the next day find him a new place to reside and start looking for a normal female one without religious or emotional issues. All people come with some emotional baggage but damn these 2 women have way more than their fair share. The only one of the 2 of them that might be worth salvaging a relationship with would be the sister and that is only because she seems to have been raped at a young age and she is his sister. The wife needs dropped like a hot potato and never look back. The cult she grew up believing in has ruined her self worth so bad she will probably never be able to have a healthy adult relationship.

I hate to add to the somewhat colorful opinions most have given but I kind agree with the majority.

I mean, Patrick has admitted to himself that he's not in love with Esther anymore while Esther has essentially moved on with Star. That's clause for divorce on many levels.

Now add in that she moved into Star's room, even if Patrick suggested it since she showed no hesitancy about it, was willing to hide it behind his back and took advantage of his forgiveness. Again, many clauses

As for Star, yeah I'm just seeing her as a previous victim who hardened herself up into a manipulator and is enjoying the fact that she has such naïve toys to dance to her whim. I know she said she thought Esther was hot, but I doubt it goes any further than lust. Meaning, when Esther actually falls in love with her and realizes she was using her, it's going to fracture her even further and probably leave her brother to pick up the pieces. Im betting that's why she doesn't want him to give up on it all. She wants him to clean her mess.

Why place this in the Incest/Taboo section when it could do so much better in the Lesbian section? That's not a bash, it's an actual question. I mean, sure Patrick and Star have had a few moments but this is generally about a self sacrificial man dealing with the failure of his marriage and manipulative sister who seemingly can never appreciate him. Again, not a bash, just an observation.

I'd like to thank you for your comments about the placement of the story, and it got me thinking. First, I'm pretty sure it's placed in incest/.taboo because of the relationship of the narrator with his sister, and his wife with her sister-in-law. I'd also point out that because Star let him watch only once, we've only had one scene, thus making it more straight than lesbian porn at this point.

A more minor point on Esther's agency that occurred to me is that, prior to fucking Star she demonstrated agency only twice - once by marrying Patrick, and then by saying no to Patrick for sex. Internally she may have latched on to these decisions, and is running with them. Moving into Star's room is the fourth after getting a job. Having sex with Star doesn't count because she was still in flux, and she pushed it.

On a much more major, and frankly darker thought process, We have the following lines from Chapter 2:

"Heavy with fear. The night before, I had promised Star that I would beat up Mike Jackamanie and Bobby Jericho. They were seniors."

And:

"She uttered, "Are you going to ask me about J and J, now that I said you can?"

Were her eyes still closed? I replied, "Do you want me to?"

She was silent for a beat, and then she said, "No.""

There has been a general presumption that she was attacked/abused/assaulted by J & J due to them dropping the case. I am not so sure at this point because this was the woman (Star) who was abusing Patrick. Wanting to see how far he would go for her may have been just another form of abuse. If J & J hadn't attacked/abused/assaulted Star, but were accused of it in a court case, that could end badly for them, even if innocent. Star, now confronted with a situation where everyone thinks that she was abused, may have found herself in a position where the pool of wiling male partners, both friendly (which was a small pool to begin with) and sexual dries up as men see her either as 'damaged goods' or, if J&J told their friends that they think she was going to falsely accuse them, of being unstable. Confronted with a lack of willing male partners, she switches over the female partners. Having done so, she has to keep up a charade.

It's a very dark path, but one that I find a reasonable extrapolation from the abuse that had been inflicted on Patrick prior.

The pure depth of these characters has me hooked. Watching him grow and the relationships build and become so much more . . . I absolutely love this story and can't wait to read more. I am an absolute fan.

What's all this horse shit. Patrick is a whimp, letting his sister steal his wife, even though he didn't love Esther, he should've gotten that divorce and left. Fuck Star and fuck Esther, stopped reading this shit. Why do writers always make their protagonist a total whimp and loser, letting people walk all over them. His sister clearly took advantage of people who are inexperienced at sex. I was really starting to enjoy this, but once he just let Star fucking his wife I stopped reading. Dumbass just agreed to whatever his sister and wife said. Was starting to like Star up until she had Esther.

after reading (raised eyebrows, headshaking and frowning) 1-6:

nope no not gonna work

With this "thing" as a sister and this "woman".... Hard Reset divorce and also getting rid of sister dear (both are not working in their intended roles IMO)

MC isn't written as being a wimp or hateful towards the two women.... but he's also not described as someone who stands up for himself or is really close to his sister or wivey (behaviour, choice of words, thoughts)... he's more or less a zero line with scene-depending pings and doesn't advance the story in the slightest.

It makes the story annoying at best and head-shaking at worst.

the idea wasn't bad, but the execution...

Really a bad deal for the main character. The sister is an abomination of a person who treats him like shit and then his wife blames him for her life choices. To top it all off the two of them are having sex together. No one should get treated like that.

They guy is in an abusive relationship with two different women who don't care about him or his feelings; It's all about them.

Sorry, but after reading all the chapters, I think the author did a lousy job!

Why? Example:

-I guess he didn't want the sister to seem like a house-wrecking, stupid cunt.

Since she is the catalyst she actually has an important function but, also referring to other comments, she is instead the main problem of the story and makes it partly non-functional.... and hugely so!

-I also think that the MC should not appear completely mentally unstable (swings between murderous rage (rightly so imo) <> suicidally sad, lovey<>hate... moodswings).

-wife seems rather unfit for life and naive?! - partly she came across in the story as if she was only there for the siblings to have another sexual partner and less like a character (like an onahole with lines), sorry?

-and some other problems but by far the worst is the sis.

Sorry. I like a lot of your writing but this story ends here for me. I don't care what happens to any of these unredeemable characters. The sister is despicable, the tough guy is spineless and the wife is a adtulterous vacuum.

Dyke wife is not worth the effort of winning back. Sister is a immature selfish cunt. Mc is a pussy.