All Comments on 'LW Notes: The Redemption Arc'

Like the analysis, obviously. Conclusions also. From personal experience (I'm a slow learner) it rings true....

I found the above interesting, I'd say I mostly agree with you but not throughout. A couple of the stories you linked I'd actually never want anyone I didn't hate to be subjected to, but to each their own. I do look forward to seeing what you have to write along this 'arc' you describe, but fair warning, I really can't abide a cuck, even if he stops the betrayals, staying with the slut that could do that to him is too high a cost for keeping one out of roughly 3.5 billion women on the planet.

Great insight. One thing that everyone needs to remember about LW stories being formula, is that in the history of television sitcoms, dramas, etc. there have only been about 7 plot lines they all follow. The movie industry has been around longer, so they have 11 or so.

If the stories seem too repetitive to you it means you’re reading too many and/or you need a different hobby. Or, maybe therapy?

A very interesting read illustrating the types of stories like these. I actually do enjoy BTB/revenge stories with self reflection by the main character, the realization they are losing a piece of themselves in their revenge and try to find a way to remain human despite the ugliness. A good revenge story is great, a good revenge story where the hero remains the hero rather then as bad as the villains.

Reconciliation stories I like but I do sometimes think it is a "RAAC". Nowhere near as often as some think but it does happen, not where the hero of the story undergoes misery and humiliation to stay always but sometimes when they put aside their pride and self worth to stay with someone who did not work on their end enough to lead to reconciliation or had betrayed them too bad to ever come back (there was a fairly recent story published about a man whose wife had cheated on them their entire marriage including having all 3 kids with her lover, it ended in reconciliation and I felt that was a RAAC, she started to love him but did him too dirty to reconcile in my opinion). The stories where the MC should have manned up and left for his own mental health. Those are what I feel are a RAAC, reconciliation that feels forced, that feels unearned and where the main character will wind up worse off. Personal opinion though.

Also come on dude, feels a bit cruel recommending Town Without Honor. Great story, amazing story even if it drags a bit but a story that is sadly unfinished and likely never will be.

I like what you write - like I say in my critique of these stories - Your story - your right. It is fantasy after all! BTB for me is the closest to reality. For this is what really happens and sometimes it comes out of the left field and totally unexpected from someone you KNEW will never do it! BTB is about the discovery, the confrontation and then the actual burning of the bitch or the bastard whoever is the cheater. BTB is a genre and you have to see it like that. I have read some very good and at times brilliant stories. Some it think could make a great novel!

Applaud your humorous/insightful analysis of the LW category and agree almost entirely with your characterization of the subcategories BTB and RAAC (not to mention your sidebar about cuckoldry). Interesting to note that historically a cuckold is a male who unwittingly invests parental effort in juveniles who are not genetically his offspring. The term now is widely used to refer to a sexual fetish in which the typically male/husband is stimulated by their partner choosing to have sex with someone else — often involving an element of humiliation. The current view is popular if posts/comments are any indication, though not my cup of tea.

In any case, do disagree on a couple of points:

(1) Quality of writing. Yes, LW draws far and away the most comments per post, many of which are outrageously inane rants. Volume of readers who comment (merit of comment aside) does not equate with quality. Surely a statistically adequate sample of comments from randomly drawn LW posts would reveal very few constructive assessment of composition & use of vocabulary, readability, plot, character development, drama or humor, not to mention sexual content (metrics of a good piece). I read LW posts with the hope of finding a gem and sometimes do (check out Blackranl1958, Laptowriter, Angiquesophie, Cagivagurl, GeorgeAnderson and others) but as you describe far too many follow a rather mundane, highly predictable script around cookie cutter characters.

(2) Although Incest stories generally do not appeal to me, they are often no less complex/human interest oriented as LW posts (and probably garner more constructive input per post).

(3) You are surely right that cheaters on average stay married, but suspect that has/will change over time. Your statistic is driven in large part by the asymmetry in cheating — usually the male and historically she had little recourse. Interesting/odd that the “loving wife” is almost always the cheater.

(4) While her cheating may be flash point for storyline, most stories are written from his viewpoint and it is his character that is developed in any detail. Maybe we agree that we need to hear more from her, bimbo or not.

Thanks for sharing. I look forward to reading your Redemptive Arc stories.

Awesome essay and great recommendations with the caveat that "Town Without Honor" starts off amazing and then goes completely off the rails... And doesn't have an ending as others have noticed.

Everyone-

Thank you for the outstanding comments, which have definitely expanded my perspective on this idea. A few thoughts:

Migbird: Fair point on the quality/quantity of comments and storylines in LW, versus incest. To be fair, I've seen some AMAZING writing in both Incest and Mature. That said, I suppose I have my preferences/blind spots! I've also seen a few outstanding LW cheating stories from her perspective, but they often fall into the "Martian Slut Ray" trap: Logical, linear storytelling, followed by insane left turn into cheating, followed by logical, linear storytelling. I think I'd like to see more stories where the insane left turn is dealt with more logically and systematically. As for my own writing, I'm working on it, I'm nowhere near the point where I think I could do a good redemption arc story at this point. For now, I think it's definitely stuck in the "aspirational" pile!

Wilsonanthony--agreed on the potential quality of BTB stories. I may have been a little harsh about them. There's a reason I've read so many of them--they're satisfying, often inventive, and sometimes very well written. In terms of the genre thing, I guess I see them like a great snack--they definitely fill a need, scratch an itch, etc...

FlynnTaggart--Agreed on BTB stories. And, to be honest, on a Town Without Honor. The story desperately needs an ending. That said, what's there is SO good. Honestly, the thing read like a treatment/backstory to a really outstanding streaming miniseries. I usually could give a crap about unfinished stories, but TWH is one of the few glorious exceptions!

Anonymous(es)--It HAS occurred to me that I may be reading WAY too much of this stuff. Obsession isn't just a cologne...

And, yeah, I have to admit that my tastes may be a little weird. I get way into those long, drawn-out stories that dig super deep into personalities and motivations. Balanced, of course, by a diet of short, savage BTB tales...

Basically, well written about a complex problem; however, you do not approach the variation as when the couple involved actually enable each other, to 'add' a 3rd or 4th (or more) character to their sex lives... Many, MANY couples share their partner (and join in) with amazing results; sometimes, it strengthens their marriage; it certainly leads to each partner evaluating their part in the marriage and perhaps, then, breaking down into their dissatisfaction with the status quo... though this may have occurred anyway, previously. As I said, many couples "expand" their sexual experiences - usually after a number of years of marriage - (It took 10 years for us - and we've now been 'hitched' for 58) - so I think the author needs to look at a broader picture, rather than the "Cheating" wife (or husband!)... But, well written, and as you state, the 'Nay-Sayers' all seem to have a vindictive streak in their comments.. Hmmm?

LR

I think my opinions are more in line with Limeyracer's. While the plot tropes you mention are perfectly valid and even, to a degree, Shakespearean (see "A Midsummer Night's Dream), it absolutely limits the category, to the degree where perfectly good authors avoid the category even though their work may apply. So, are we just throwing our hands up and admitting that the category title is meant to be sarcastic? Open marriages exist and can be fulfilling and sexy. Although these may be tributes to the actual loving wife, we have to find other places to put them? I am not opposed to BTB stories; I have a B in my life that I would actually love to have B'ed (well, actually, I did). But the category should be more open than just those plots.

Interesting thoughts indeed. I think perhaps three things are in play: (1) You might consider the "mystery or detective story" element of some LW tales, the solving of the crime, of figuring out what is going on. That offers the writer good scope for uniquely working out the questions. (2) Also, some of the stories have a sort of drugged-nightmarish quality, where the MC is the only decent person, surrounded by uncaring, monstrous people, or the visceral shock of sudden and utter betrayal, or a suddenly-discovered deep betrayal. That may be the thing which makes the category so addictive!. In its own way it might be somehow comparable to the lure of a scary Poe or Lovecraft story. (3) As to the tropes, they're ok! It's like going to an opera, where it's not really about the plot or the acting. It's about the music! For that you forgive all and stand and cheer!

Good analysis.

I happen to like the LW category. What irritates me the most, though, is that most writers, whether on the BTB side, or the RAAC side, make the husband a weak little boy, who pukes, cries, and runs off and hides, burying himself in the bottle. Those are not men, and that is not how men act. I do not know where they come up with this. Maybe they grew up without a Father figure.

Thanks for the discussion. Is it necessarily true that if you BTB that you are still hanging on to the other person. If you shovel a pile of manure into a spreader and take it out to your field do you feel defined by the manure pile, or is it just a job that needed doing, and once it's done there nothing left but a feeling of accomplishment. Vengeance can be very cathartic. RAAC by all means if you enjoy being spit on. Better if you want to maintain a relationship to start it on an entirely new basis. Redemption Arc seems to be another way of saying get you head together. It could possibly go along with a BTB, a reformulation of a damaged relationship, or a determination to go it alone and learn life's lessons. It doesn't seem to go along with a true RAAC. In a true RAAC the injured party instead of redeeming themselves does nothing but become subservient to their own neediness. As hundreds of LW stories relate love, hate, desire and revulsion can form a heady and confusing mixture. Better to read about it than to live through it. 5 for bringing up the discussion and writing well about it!

Good analysis))

QuickMagazine here, commenting because this author's first LW story posted today, and checking out his page, saw that this preceded that. So read this first, and now look forward to the story itself. As for this essay, it's pretty solid, though I think setting up "BTB" and "RAAC" as straw men is too easy. Point well taken, though, that many stories focus on the wife and not the MMC. Don't know that "TRA" is going to catch on. I doubt it, since it's more or less what happens anyway in plenty of these stories. Of the 5 cited by bruce1971, the only one I've read thus far is the Javmor. Not sure I agree with the "a little cartoonishly evil" cavil, maybe sometime I'll re-read it to see about that. I do know that Javmor79 is one of the absolute finest on this site. I have a lot of catching up to do with Tx Tall Tales, but if "Marriage As A House" is any indication, that will be time well spent. Anyway, I do agree with Bruce that LW is the most compelling section of Lit. My take is that although infidelity is also explored in Group Sex and Fetish, to name 2, the stakes are just that much higher in LW, since marriage is both an emotional and legal situation. Hence, a rip and tear to that fabric is serious stuff. And finally, amusing that "similar stories" listed to the right include a couple of the FS alt's. Hmmm...oh, and as for a rating on this essay? When in doubt, give it a 4. And another oh, want to second what Ic69hunter wrote about the weak husband characters. Which sort of seconded was bruce1971 wrote about them, too.

I agree LW provides the largest and most critical audience. Trying to write a completely novel story about a cheating spouse is daunting to say the least. I have read thousands of LW stories and they all pretty much fall into the divides you described. If I’m being honest with myself, I’d say I like the BTB stories best, but it seems my own stories usually include some sort of compromised settlement which the hard core dudes always label as “chuck shit.” I think my real life divorce proved to me that an amicable, mature, my-kid-comes-first, type of split provides the best opportunity for all parties to successfully move on with their lives, but it may make for a boring story.

Very cerebral take on the LW category and very interesting. A couple points that need to be included,,I believe, is first that most writers in the LW area are men. And since it is called "Loving Wives", the focus of the main character (husband) is naturally going to be the wife, her emotions and her psychology. The writers here, are the elite in their class, for reasons you have pointed out, In addition to those reasons, I get the feeling that there is a, and I plan on getting some heat for saying this, a larger intelligence gap between the writer and the reader in the LW group. Now I have zero proof of this, just a feeling . I am also aware that I am just a reader. This leads me to the second point; the reader.

Most readers of erotica are male. You would think then that if men are writing stories for other men to read, there might be a little weirdness about that. The stories then must focus on the one thing all men are obsessed over, and that is women. And more specifically; wives. There is no category for "Loving Husbands" where men could read of the exploits of great men who fucked their way through multitudes of virgin cheerleaders, or husbands with a track record of cheating on the wife and high-fiving his buddies after work each time. Men will think it, of course, and delude themselves the ability to still score the cheerleader regardless of possessing bigger bellies and less hair. The truth is that once married, men are at a disadvantage in the marriage, especially the bedroom. Men have all the pressure these days. They are the performers that all orgasms and thus sexual satisfaction depend on. and they do this knowing that around the corner is Mr. Wonderful with a big cock and youthful athleticism waiting in the wings for a shot at an easy, frustrated wife. At least that is what porn has taught them. And to make matters worse, nearly every man will experience some breakdown in the equipment as they age. Men may age better on the outside than women, (sophistication, right?) but nature evens the score "down there". Men, even the big ones with big ones, are ego-sensitive. We, as good wives, know this and we boost this every chance we get, not only for his sake because we love him more than life, but because we want to be married to him and to stay married to him because an insecure man who feels worthless, will not keep a wife. A man needs his wife and the threat of losing her or her cheating or sharing her sends a charge of fear and arousal that don't naturally mix well and you end up with a reader who has become intent on finding the answer, even though the source is erotic fiction. Thus two schools develop in the reader, the scorned man whose wife left him in emotional ruin, and the man who is still happily married (and should probably not be reading these stories). You can deduce from there, who goes BTB and who goes RAAC. You can see why men suffer more in divorces, and not just financially.

I know I wrote in haste here, and it is late and my grammar skills decrease proportionally with tiredness, but I just wanted to get the point that the readers emotional state plays a significant role in not only in comments, but in the writers work. Comment abuses have started to change writing styles to even include warnings of a BTB story or (NO Sex in this story) in the preface. And it can be stated, as I am a woman, that all these cheating, lying wives that are fictional, may begin to give women in the non fictional world, a bad name. The title :Loving Wives" was a brilliant choice as it is both a compliment and an accusation and in itself, encourages the reader.

The LW category is admittedly the most interesting because its readers are the most critical. I like BTB as well as RAAC stories. One should have a certain suspension of disbelief in both though. TRA stories tend to be more realistic and mature IMO. Good analysis overall, and your first story is a doozy!

I'd disagree that it is a 2 way split and RAAC is all about willing cuckoldry and getting off on it.

There, IMO, is BTB, RAAC and cuck stories.

BTB isn't as cut and dried as some might think and be burning the bitch and/or bastard. I've read some that the burning leads to RAAC...

RAAC does have crossover with cuck stories, but if you read cagivigirl her MCs are not willing cucks and generally for the reconciliation to happy the affair has to be over.

Then the cuck stories where the husband either comes to terms with the affair willingly or not sometimes they stumble into it or he encourages her. But ultimately he does enjoy his wife with others.

The important part, for me, in all 3 of these is exploring the internal processes of the MC and even better If we get the spouse's POV too.

Just my opinion

5* Thank you for this intelligent and perceptive analysis of the genre. This broadly matches what I think about the various types of LW story - but it is so much better thought out. I read this after reading your "My Fragile Male Ego” and, being impressed by that, I looked at your summary page.

Possibly because it is posted in a different category, not in LW, this has attracted the most thoughtful comments I have ever seen about an LW topic. The range of insightful, balanced and calm comments is amazing. Even where people disagree they are polite and constructive. Maybe I should read more non-LW tales? I am used to the two/three word dismissals that even the "best" stories seem to attract. All that is missing, unless I overlooked it, is the mystery of the commentators who (a) rubbish a story, (b) haven't posted anything anywhere themselves and (c) have forgotten that they aren't paying for this.

I have found your essay here and the comments you have prompted helpful for me, as a learning writer (who knows exactly the story he wants to write, I should add). Many thanks for posting this analysis.

I think your categories are too narrow.

\

Beginning with RAAC. There is also straight reconciliation. Reconciliation requires, first, that the offense IS forgivable. If it is, then the offending party has to do the heavy lifting to achieve the reconciliation. Too many stories, particularly multi-part stories that aren't completely written before the first part is posted, begin with an offense that is SO egregious that no rational person can see a way back, then by the time they write the final chapter the author decides (or had already decided) that they want a reconciliation. They twist themselves in knots trying to justify it, usually to no avail. These generally are derided as RAAC. Some examples, not all multi-part: Richard Gerald's Another Love, George Anderson's February Sucks. A couple of stories that broke that mold were Richard Gerald's The Bridge and Hooked1957's A Promise Made, a Vow Broken.

Some NON-RAAC reconciliation stories begin with a MUCH milder offense with the offender showing true contrition and a willingness to work to repair the marriage.

As for BTB, as someone who came to LW as a devotee of StangStar, I was a fairly strong BTB fan. I have since matured (in my eyes, at least!) to what I call "Consequences." This basically means that depending on several factors: The nature of the offense, the feelings of the offended and the further actions of the offender, there will be consequences to be paid. This might be BTB, to whatever degree the author deems appropriate, divorce, of varying degrees of amicability, to full-blown reconciliation. This rarely allows for RAAC, because RAAC usually requires an unforgivable offense and/or no consequences for the offender. A good example is Feb Sucks. On a special night, in front of their friends, the wife turns her back on her husband, sneaks away to spend the night with a stud, having a night if sex that is so special that she'll remember it to the day she dies. And what does she suffer for this? To see her husband ALMOST leave with a hot babe, that wasn't even real!

Admittedly, the essay has evoked some drastically divergent view points and that's where the author has scored.

For me, it's a pilot study with a skeletal framework that could be amplified further.

I agree with @Sarahwithlove that erotic fiction is not a good source as authentic research material. Like the LW stories, I consider this essay an extension of the same. But, it was quite enjoyable.

First off, I was member of lit for a short time, and then my login failed, I emailed Lit and haven't heard back, so I post as anonymous.

Thankyou for your reviews on this subject.

As a reader who knows he has zero writing talent, I am in awe of the people who take the time and effort to entertain me for free. Thankyou.

I would like to add my voice to the question does the author have an actual planned end to his wonderful inspirational tale. Or has he just gotten this wonderful scenario that he wants to write.

As all scenarios appear to need an introduction, except of course Vandemonium and his Godlike eternal never changing Dave, the author expends considerable time and effort to fabricate a beginning.

Then comes the big bang bit, their original wonderfully inspired idea.

Um. Oops. Now what do I do?

Then comes the unplanned bit. The stuttering spluttering rushed and incomplete ending.

Leaving the reader without closure and with many questions about points that have been raised in the story still unanswered.

I think this also leads to a second point.

Second point is I believe one of the main reasons the LW area is a minefield for authors is that authors do a great job of painting such an evil selfish bitch character for the cheating wife that there is no room left for any possible redemption of her character.

We all want fair play in literature. That is you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours, or even an eye for an eye. That's the happy ending we crave, the karma, the bush justice or whatever you feel comfortable calling it.

So when an author successfully creates an immoral hateful spiteful selfish nasty bitch as a cheating wife no one wants to see her succeed. We cry out for blood. We want not just justice, but revenge. The offense has to be paid for.

So when the author suddenly on page 9 of a story, which has mostly revolved around this cheating bitch and the poor innocent hapless husbands reaction to her, suddenly and without forewarning tries to paint her as a victim who is worthy of our forgiveness and affection, it is just wrong. It goes against the grain of what we want and expect. It requires an unnatural, even perverse, action from the reader whose every instinct based upon what the author has successfully portrayed, is to cry out for blood. Her blood.

Now, suddenly, we are expected to feel sympathy for her. It just does not work. It isn't that we are hateful bloodthirsty homicidal maniacs. This unwarranted forgiveness just goes against our sense of fair play.

Imagine a sports match when your team loses in the dying minute to an umpires obvious wrong call. It is just not fair. Its very unsettling. it brings out the worst in many ordinary people.

Ordinary calm quiet people are booing, shouting, swearing, abusing, banging the bleachers coz its just not fair. We should have won.

I agree also that it seems like the authors are on a merry go round that they can't get off.

They appear to be vying for top spot on who can outdo everyone else. This particularly fails when they are trying to out paint each other in portraying their cheating wives, and then expect the reader to just accept the RAAC tacked on at the end. And in a way that's fine, you are the author. Its your world. Just don't get upset with and blame the readers who react strongly (within the bounds of common decency and sanity) against what you are writing. Mostly they have a sense of fair play that they feel has been aggrieved.

If the story is to have the happy couple reconciled, then the seeds of the reason for why the evil bitch warrants our redemption need to be sown early. As I said earlier its too late to introduce this hunt for sympathy on page 9 after the guy has lost his job, his wife and kids, his house and friends, even the cat and the dog.

If the bitch is to be burned, then just keep adding hurt on hurt on the innocent husband and evil upon evil on the Bitch.

It saddens me that most of the victim husbands are portrayed as being pathetic spineless indecisive wimps who can only overreact with self pity and self destruction. Where are the men who will just say, Tut tut, too bad, so sad. Lets move on. Or to do like I learned as a salesman when the sales pitch was rejected. "Oh well, its not me they are rejecting, it's what I have to offer. That's what they don't want. Their loss not mine."

there is also this very common theme that in an attempt to make the victim seem like a good guy to the readers, the husband comes up with this ludicrous idea that his lying, cheating, selfish, self-centered, backstabbing, thieving and immoral wife who has just prostituted herself, is still the best person to influence and to train his children for adulthood. I mean WTF. What is behind that rationale? How can his coercing a young impressionable daughter to spend time with a prostitute be used to portray him as being being the "good guy". Where is the man who will fight for and protect his children? I know in real life he has little say in custody etc, the courts follow a tried and tested and well failed path in saying who gets to have the kids. But this is literature. Fiction. Not reality.

Opps. Sorry. Forgive the rant. This is just my pet peeve on these LW stories.

A R W

Damn, I can't decide if I should rate this 1 star for casual dismissal of a lot of people's feelings (BTB is not "useless" just because it's unrealistic - some of us LIKE, or even need, escapist fantasy with Happy End - including emotional one - and revenge satisfies an emotional need). And reconciliation and maintaining some nebulous - and often externally forced - ethics and morals - doesn't make one a good man. Or 5 stars for some very valid points, especially at the end (including the "story shouldn't be about her but about him" bit that was brilliant. I tend to give LW stories that are of "best revenge is living well" good ratings precisely because of that.

I have a full rebuttal, but the margins of this comment are too small :)

Wow! I really enjoyed your insights on these LW stories and the various plots. But after reading some of the comments on your views in this dissection of LW stories I find myself woefully at a loss for enough words to reply intelligently. In other words faced with the words from my ex that she fell out of love and wanted to look around for somebody else left me with mush for brain incapable of making any rational decisions. The after that revelation she asked if it didn't work out (finding someone else) could she comeback? I'm just an 80 year old mechanic what they hell do I know about relationships? I fix things, Things that have nuts and bolts or wires and connectors. I have no idea how to solve a relationship problem or how to BTB ex. My ex just road off into the sunset and took my life at the time with her. As I said mush, that's what my brain was. I guess I would be classified as one of those wimp husbands that didn't do a damn thing to stop her. Consequently I'm always open to all you writers and even some of the commentors who seem to be incredibly capable of critical thinking. Woa! Where did all those words come from? In my trade it's pretty simple, (if you know how), if you can figure out how something is supposed to work then with the proper knowledge and tools you can fix it. When it came to the marriage relationship I was ill prepared to keep it working and likewise to fix it when it broke. Does anyone understand what I just said? My kudos to all those writers who try and fail and those who try and succeed and keep me entertained and even help me understand some of these relationships and why they go wrong. 5 stars of course and I'll even give 5 stars to most of the commentors and a big thank you!

@dgfergie - "*wimp husbands that didn't do a damn thing to stop her*". Being unable to stop someone who made a decision doesn't make you a wimp, only makes you normal human. Trying to keep her if she cheated would make someone a wimp. A woman is only with you if she wants to be. Nothing you can do will change that limitation. The fact that you wanted to fix the marriage is admirable.

The fact that you couldn't, is likely more a bad reflection on her, than on you. Unless she clearly pointed out to some specific failing of yours, that you COULD have fixed, and refused to fix, this is her error, her problem, her failing. Your only "failure" during marriage is being unlucky in picking the woman who ended up not worthy of your love.

The failure was after she left, in giving up and allowing "mush", instead of fighting for your own sanity and improved life. You let her ruin your life, instead of merely setting yourself back a couple of steps.

Hey, All!

Thanks for the outstanding comments. Some thoughts on a few of the comments:

@Trambak: You're absolutely right--this is a skeletal framework (at best!), and is intended as an overture, not a symphony. I would VERY much like to see where people run with this--and I hope that, as people offer up their own takes, they'll link back or at least send me a message that they've continued the conversation. I would argue that LW stories are an outstanding topic for discussion/research. Think about it: on what is ostensibly a porn site, the most commented on, most active section often has no sex at all. In these stories, and in our comments, readers and writers routinely comment on what it is to be a man, what it is to be in love, what it is to have integrity, and a host of other questions involving the fundamental nature of masculinity. Show me another place--be it the New Yorker or a bathroom stall--where this kind of conversation happens between people across the ideological spectrum and around the world. If that doesn't qualify LW as a reasonable area for research and discussion, I don't know what does.

@SBrooks: Good points. I'm working through this myself, but I think your consequences categorization works. I think, also, that there's the matter of the prep work the writer does. In the two main reconciliation stories you mentioned, the authors didn't do much more than sketch the wives--basically, they constructed flimsy characters who were barely large enough to support their crimes. That's basically a BTB tactic--start with the punishment, then build back the story, ultimately creating a cardboard cutout villain to fill that spot in the narrative. In reconciliation stories, the wives tend to be more three-dimensional, the better to support the narrative weight they eventually have to carry as they crawl their way back into their husbands' good graces. The trouble with "February Sucks" and "Another Love" is that those shallow cutout villains then have to shoulder the narrative weight of reconciliation, without having enough heft to ever make it truly justifiable.

@Inka2222: I guess I should clarify something: I don't consider BTB stories useless. I'm actually kind of a fan--there's a lot to be said for simple, fun stories that reinforce our sense that evil is punished and virtue is rewarded. I read a lot of BTB stories, and I enjoy them a lot. I guess I'd say that BTBs are like an episode of Columbo or some other episodic mystery show, while a good redemption story is more like a piece by Arthur Conan Doyle or John LaCarre. I won't deny that I generally consider the writing in a good redemption story to be better, or that I think they're generally a richer overall experience, but I'd also argue that both types of story serve their purpose. I couldn't read redemption stories all the time--frankly, I think the narrative weight would grow exhausting. On the other hand, the standard narrative arc of BTBs tends to grow monotonous after a time, if you don't mix it up.

It's also worth noting that--to your point--these stories exist for a lot of reasons and serve a lot of purposes...including catharsis! VERY much looking forward to a post exploring your perspective--and hoping you'll link to it off the comments here, so we can continue the conversation.

@dgfergie: I've already written to you offline, but for our purposes here, what inka said!

@kiteares: Good point. The genre definitely needs some new definitions. This was an attempt to put a new one in there, but I'd really like to see the way we look at LW expanded. Thanks!

@Donotpassgo: Thank you!

@Syzyguy: We've chatted a bit in other spaces, but thank you. Personally, I think LW commenters get a bad rap. Yes, there are the "1*cuck shit" trolls, but there's also a lot of thoughtful discussion going on there. Yes, you need a thick skin to write there, but if you can avoid getting pulled too deeply into the nasty comments, there's a lot of outstanding editorial feedback.

@Sarahwithlove: Wow, there's a lot there...!

I think you make a good case for the biological construction of a man's fear of cuckoldry. Personally, I think the real draw of Loving Wives has very little to do with the wives themselves, and a lot to do with the notion of how a man reconstructs himself after complete devastation. Often, the cheating--and even the wife herself--are little more than narrative devices to set up the real struggle: how does a man come back when every aspect of himself (father, husband, lover, community member, breadwinner, etc.) has been destroyed? Sure, we could think of other things that are equally devastating--substance abuse, a catastrophic accident--but cheating cuts right to the heart of man's vulnerability and his sense of himself. How do you rebuild yourself after that? Whether you're talking about a BTB, RAAC, RA, or any other type of story, I think that's where the real narrative power and emotion lies.

Hey, I meant to comment before: when I first started writing LW stories, this analysis was my touchstone. If you like my stuff, especially After the Future is Gone (which is what I was writing when I first read this), thank bruce1971 for his insightful and thorough work here. It was a huge influence.

If you hate my stuff, though, I’ll take the heat for it.

My personal favorite LW writer is DT, because even though the female characters are all super-heroines, the protagonists are usually regular, relatable guys who have principles and lines that shouldn’t be crossed, and the MCs usually take back their power even though in life it rarely happens for men.

His writing is superb; the character development, scene, believable tech that doesn’t require leaps of logic much less shark jumping. He makes sure everyone is flawed.

~Spiny

Damn!! NTH and Bruce meeting in the comments! These are the two absolutely best talents to drop into this primordial Petri dish in a while. Yes, this essay should be required reading to post in LW!

The problem with LW commenters is that their psychological baseline to adjudicate something as "cuck sh*t" is so low you need a tunnel-boring machine to pass beneath. By comparison, the Taliban would be listening to Lil' Wayne and watching Ellen on the O Network.

-Yossarian

Thought provoking. I relate to the Man in the Mirror … in fact, I quote that poem often. 5/5

Interesting stuff.

A few comments just for fun. I find the weekest point in LW stories is often the question sbout “why”. In most cases the female seems to be suffering from a personality disorder. “Wonderful loving wife, great sex, wonderfull house, freedome to do what you like, traveling, great job, great guy” and she still decides to take a lover.

In your story the madonna and the mantris the female is clearly mental disturbed with a pathological need for sick revenge. There it is at least clear why she does it. Even though that is clear - the story teller put it as a revenge that she divorces - the main point seems to be the fear for future revenge projects.

So a clear reason for why this happened and a clear readon for no BTB. This should he much more common in LW stories

It's too bad Tx Tall Tales never finished the story you recommend before he headed off for the greener pastures of being a published author. There are at least 2 stories of his that didn't get done (on Lit) that I would have loved to see concluded, 'A Town Without Honor' being one of them. But alas, it's been six years since then.

'Play It Again Sam' was a riveting story. I didn't stop reading until I'd finished it. Luckily, or sadly depending, for me, I read fast. Being as I was at work at the time, I had to stop reading to actually do some work a couple of times. Like now, which is why I'm posting this comment although I'm not quite finished.

Refreshing narrative. 5

Bruce, I salute you as a fellow survivor of divorce, for telling it like it is. Couldn't agree with you more about a new category is needed for LW.

Happy Holidays and have a wonderful 2024

Paul

Brave Rifles

Thanks for the reading list. I just finished Man in the Mirror and it's great. I think I've read Play It Again Sam but it's been a while; I'll give it another read. I've read the others and they are, indeed, fine works.

Not technically a Redemption Arc story, I think, but my absolute favorite LW story is RichardGerald's "The Bridge," where the MC comes to the realization that his marriage was based on a false assumption of his wife's character.

Thank you for letting us know that you're so much more cleverer than us IQ challenged lesser mortals who require your briliance to figure out the basics. I'm far more informed and possibly even a better person thanks to your homework assignment. For your next even more clevererest contribition please regale us with how, The Third Law of Thermodynamics pertains to the entropy permeating the LW category as we approach zero.

MY GOD. A man who thinks the same as I do. I'm not here to critique your easy because you are spot on. My bitch is what you said about most stories are about BTB or RAC. Like you I used to skip over the RAC's and really got a kick out of the BTB's. That was the old day's. Now every day has about a dozen new stories with maybe 1 or 2 BTB's. The rest are CUCK or HOT WIVES or some other silly BS that turn my stomach. Now at 74 yrs old I have become a little less black and white a see a little gray. Hey, different strokes for different folks. However why can't they put them inn their own categories like ROMANCE, or LESBIAN etc. It's really ruined LITEROTICA for me after all these years of enjoyable erotic reading. Maybe if some of you popular writers spoke up (I've tried with no response from Literotica) we could get a change.

Some reconciliations are RAACs. Some divorces are BTB. Perhaps it would be helpful to split each category into two sub-categories. The in-between scenarios are the most interesting (and realistic).

For all the many stories re infidelity and the resultant chaos, there really aren't that many that do a good job of capturing all the real-life elements of a couple trying to wrestle with possible reconciliation vs divorce. That dilemma, complicated greatly by children, is what haunts.

In LW world, betrayed husbands often reach conclusions quickly. In the real world, many never reach any kind of definitive conclusion at all. Same for betrayed wives. Many people, even with a lot of counseling, can't even seem to find an effective framework to think about their situations, much less make a quality decision. I'm sure these situations must be difficult to write effectively. And I'm sure the predictable chorus of comments from the "Cuck shit" gallery can't make it any easier.

Dante consigned betrayers to the lowest circle of hell. My guess is that LW stories attract the largest readership because infidelity creates such a visceral reaction. Anyone who finds our flawed human condition worthy of study and reflection can find a never-ending source of material from the harm done by those who pledged to love us most.