The Discussion

British English spelling and grammar.

This story was in some years ago, under my original nom de plume. It's been extensively re-worked, but feel free to drop out if you recognise it.

No tags; the description says it all.

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The discussion

With a quick nod to Portia in Shakespeare's 'Merchant of Venice'.

MONDAY

"I've been meaning to have a talk with you, Ed."

"Go ahead babe, I'm listening."

"Not right now; it's only fair if you're prepared, so I'd like to discuss something with you on Saturday." said Lois.

"No problem, Saturday it is. But I can't prepare unless you give me a clue."

"Of course - but don't react right now. I'm giving you this week to digest it. Ready?"

"Ready."

"I really want to have sex with another man."

Ed's jaw dropped. Lois put a finger to his lips, a sign he should not respond. He took a deep breath and remained silent, though that certainly wasn't easy.

"You can speak to me tomorrow, but not with a decision, only any clarification you may need to get your ducks in a row. And I'll be doing the same."

TUESDAY

"I have to say, 'Not a chance' is my first reaction." said Ed.

"I understand that, but you can't decide till Saturday. Please let me explain a little."

"If you must."

"It would just be sex, and just the once. You've always been logical and fair. So, I want to discuss it with you， properly, on Saturday. You have till then to marshal your thoughts. I get to tell you exactly why it would be ok; you tell me why it's not. And I'll bring a referee who'll judge which one of us produces the best argument."

"Who's the judge?"

"Doris. She works in our Human Resources at Dostech, and promises to be impartial."

Ed considered it.

"I agree. But I may have some questions before then. Just for clarification you understand."

"Fair enough, but I won't divulge any of my arguments."

WEDNESDAY

"So, what's logical got to do with it Lois?"

"Remember when we were living in Basingstoke, and I got this job in Southampton?"

"Sure."

"Well, I suggested we move to Winchester, about halfway between the two. But you said it wasn't logical. We'd both have to travel, and have the expense of two cars."

"I did."

"So, you gave me the choice of us living in one location or the other. I chose here in Southampton, and I go to work on the bus."

"I get it, logical. Now I do all the driving. But when I get home, later than you, you've cooked dinner and we can unwind. And we save thousands, only running one car."

"Exactly."

"But what's that got to do with you wanting a 'Get out of Jail Free' card?"

"It's the way you think things through. You presented a well worked out argument, and now you are happy to put up with longer hours away from home, to make our lives easier. Our current lifestyle shows you were right."

"Thanks."

"So, I'm trying to think the same way you do. I want you to tell me, logically, why I shouldn't be allowed to have this fling. And equally important, give me the chance to argue my case; non-emotionally, like you do."

THURSDAY

"I have an important question." said Ed.

"OK."

"Do you already have someone in mind for this extra-marital venture?"

"Absolutely not." replied Lois.

"You swear? Nobody you've had your eye on for a while? You'll really be starting from scratch?"

"I swear; no-one in mind."

"Come on. No guys at work chatting you up? There must be someone you fancy."

"Sure, there are men at work who make it clear they'd like to get into my pants. And I can't deny some of them are attractive. But the answer is still no. I do not have anyone in my sights."

"It seems unlikely."

"Then, here's the deal Ed. I really want to have sex with another man. But I guarantee, whoever I choose, it will not be anyone from where I work. In fact, it won't even be someone I already know."

"Deal."

FRIDAY

"Is your plan to deliberately hurt me?" he asked.

"No! I love you. I don't want another man in my life. I just want to try sex with somebody different. It doesn't matter if he has a bigger or smaller dick, or if he's taller or hairier than you. I'm just curious to try somebody new. Logically it shouldn't hurt you."

"You want one man, once?"

"Yes."

"Say it out loud. That you do not want to hurt me."

"I do not want to hurt you Ed. I promise."

SATURDAY

"As this is Lois's idea, I think she should present her case first." said Doris. "I'll offer my unbiased opinion when you're both done. Meanwhile I won't participate unless one of you asks me to."

"Agreed."

Lois took a deep breath, and began.

"To start with Ed, I want you to understand there's a big difference between love and sex. This discussion is not going to be productive, if you believe they're one and the same."

"Demonstrate." said Ed.

"There are different kinds of love. The way you feel about strawberries and cream, about me, your mum, Shawshank Redemption - are not the same."

"Ah. But I say that I love them all."

"Yes. So it must follow that there are different kinds of sex. Sex with love, the way we do it, is the most important one. But there's also mere lust in a one-night stand, hero worship, sex when you're lonely or for revenge. Sex when you're dared to, or forced, or even for money."

"And you would like to add -- sex out of sheer curiosity."

"Yes. And they are all quite separate from love."

"OK."

"Paul Newman was once interviewed about his opportunities for affairs." continued Lois. "He said something like: 'If you have steak at home, why go out for a burger?' I know he was trying to pay Joanne Woodward a compliment, but his analogy is wrong. You're the logical one, tell me why."

"Because eating steak every day, might get boring. Sometimes you still fancy a burger. So, is that what you're saying? You're bored with me?" asked Ed.

"Certainly not, but we must accept that our love life might start getting a bit dull in ten, twenty years from now. I don't want to wait that long. I'm getting delicious steak with you. But I want to look back and say I tried a burger; just once."

"Hmm. OK, love and sex are different. I get it."

"Next. I was a virgin when we met. We're in our thirties now, and have potentially been sexually active for half our lives. You had at least three or four girlfriends, before you met me. But I've only ever been with you."

"And you want to even the score?" asked Ed.

"I admit there is an element of that, yes. Just one man, on one occasion, is far from getting even though. I think it's perfectly fair. I don't want to go to my grave only ever having had sex with one man. And doing it with your agreement means it wouldn't be cheating."

"I see; anything else?"

"I just don't think jealousy is logical. You have seen me using my dildo."

"I have."

"Well, there you are then. You aren't jealous of that."

Doris coughed, and smiled for the first time.

"You've even got me off with it. It's just a thing that gives me pleasure - though not nearly as much pleasure as you do obviously. Another man would be the same; just mechanical sex. If you can make a logical decision, then that shouldn't make you uncomfortable. One man, one time, and no love involved. No hurt, no recriminations, we just pick up where we before as if it never happened. If you love me, you will let me have this. And that's my argument done. "

There was a pause.

"For what it's worth, I think Lois has been reasonable, and presented a good case." said Doris. "I look forward to hearing your counter argumant Ed. Let me reaffirm, I will not take sides yet."

So Ed began.

"First, I'd like to start at the place where you ended Lois - the bit where you said 'If you love me, you will let me do this.' It's outrageous, and it's emotional blackmail."

"What makes you say that?"

"I'll demonstrate. If you love me, you will drop this idea immediately. How does that make you feel? Got a coherent argument?"

She thought about it.

"Or how about," he continued, "you sit there and say: 'If you love me Ed, you'll let me pull a train. I just want brutal anal sex with twenty bikers; just the once.' Should I logically agree to that?"

"OK, I see what you mean. I'll withdraw it."

"Let's get back to the plot then, I have to agree with you about the love and sex part. No argument from me, they are different. And I admit that, from a non-emotional standpoint, I'll not be uncomfortable or hurt with you having sex with another man -- unless I find flaws in your reasoning."

"Good."

She sat back, loking delighted.

"So, I would like to start my defence, so to speak, with the concept of my not feeling uncomfortable in other areas."

"OK."

"Did I make you uncomfortable when I had sex with my previous girlfriends; yes or no?"

"That's ridiculous! I never even knew you then."

Ed looked at Doris.

"Yes or no, Lois?" she said.

"Very well, no, you did not."

"Using the terms better or worse, which is worse? You having sex with someone I never knew about, before we met? Or you having sex with another person, and I know it's happening - after you've taken vows to be faithful?"

Lois sighed.

"Afterwards is worse, obviously. But it's a ridiculous argument. We're not religious; wedding vows are just words you say to get married. Your previous girlfriends were just an example to show why I want to do this."

"I understand that, and I agree with you. Love and sex are different. And as you and I were not together then, my previous girlfriends are irrelevant, as is everything we did before we met. But you're the one who brought the example up, and I am merely responding."

"Fair enough." Lois agreed.

"Then tell me, do you regret being a virgin when we first got together?"

"Of course not."

"So, you were happy that I took your virginity, and had no jealous feelings about my previous relationships?"

"None at all."

"And when you married me, you were not worrying about all the men you had not had sex with."

"I suppose not."

"Then I think we should disregard my exes completely."

Reluctantly Lois nodded.

"Strike it from the record Doris. And if you agree that sex with another partner after marriage is much more hurtful than sex before. It follows that what you want to do is more than just even the score."

"I don't agree."

"OK, let's deal with the sex toy then. On a scale of one to ten, rate sex with me, and sex with the dildo."

"You're a ten, it's only a three."

"Is it logical to assume that having sex with another man would rate higher than the dildo's three; between an eight and a ten perhaps?"

"I guess. I never really thought about it."

"I did though. I've had a week."

"OK."

"Then imagine you are now having sex with some guy. Is it your intention to grasp his penis and thrust it in and out of your vagina like a dildo, while he just reads the paper, or watches tv or something?"

"Of course not."

"Or he just lies back and thinks of football, while you bounce up and down on him, unregarded?"

"No! That's ridi... that's just being silly. I want involvement from him, excitement, and passion.""

Lois sighed and shook her head.

"Of course you do. So, like the previous girlfriends argument, the analogy of a male partner compared to a dildo is spurious. You want to wrap your thighs round a real sweaty man, and match him thrust for thrust."

Lois didn't answer.

"The dildo rarely gives you an orgasm; but you want at least one with mystery man. Discount the dildo example."

"OK."

"Good. Let's examine the just once aspect. You're quite sure that one time is enough?"

"I'm sure."

"So, if I agree to this, what am I supposed to do in a year's time, if you want another 'just once' experience? Say, you keep your word this time around, but later tell me you want to try it, just once, with a black man, or a midget."

"No! You're not listening! I said just once. That's the agreement."

"But how can you say that? You agreed to our marriage vows, stipulating 'forsaking all others'. But now you want to change it to 'forsaking all others, except just this once'. So you'll do the same thing again."

She sighed.

"I promise it will only be once."

"Well, I think nearly all your argument is falling apart. Let's get to the real issue; the example of my feeling hurt or uncomfortable. I will not ask if you would be hurt, if I had sex with another woman; I accept you would. But may I ask for honest answers to some simple questions?"

"Yes."

"Doris, will you interrupt if you think she is being less than honest? Or if any of my questions are unfair?"

"Sure."

"Would you be hurt if you knew I was with another woman and having oral sex as foreplay; me going down on her, her sucking me, or both?"

"Yes."

"Hurt by heavy petting? Tongue kisses, hands under her clothing, removing that clothing?"

"Yes."

"How about groping on the dancefloor? Squeezing her breasts, and running my hand down the back of her dress, to cop a feel of her arse. Would that kind of thing make you feel uncomfortable?"

"Yes." said Lois.

"Non-sex then; would you be hurt if I booked a romantic dinner for two?"

"I wouldn't like that."

"How about I have a straightforward date in a bar? Meet her for drinks and a chat. No foreplay, just an opportunity for us to get to know each other. To see if she might be the one when I want stranger sex? I'd tell her how beautiful she is, and touch her hair. You know, whispering compliments. Surely that would be ok?"

"Well... I wouldn't really like that either."

"Let's try something less tactile. How would you feel if you discovered I was searching for a sex partner on the internet?"

"Angry."

"Making arrangements over the phone? Or getting a friend to set me up with another woman?"

"Angry."

"That's enough interrogation Lois, I've got the picture."

She breathed a long sigh of relief.

"How long does our typical love-making last?"

"We usually take around thirty minutes."

"So, sex with this mystery man would be longer or shorter?"

"About the same I would imagine."

"But you wouldn't want a quickie."

"No, of course not."

"Well if this is to be a one-off event, your moment in the sun, I think you ought to really enjoy it."

Lois was looking hopeful now.

"This 'just once' to get it out of your system; I don't think thirty minutes is long enough."

"I only want one session with someone different. It's not a competition."

"Fortyfive minutes would satisfy you then? I don't mean orgasms; I mean satisfy your curiosity."

"Fortyfive minutes would be perfect."

"Finally, the 'just once' aspect again; do you think I'd agree if you wanted double penetration with two big black guys?"

"No."

"So this just one time is about quantity, not quality. It has little to do with logic."

Lois didn't answer. Len continued.

"Lois, I want you to know that your examples are poor, but your basic reasoning is sound. What do you reckon Doris?"

"That's about how I see it."

Lois brightened up. It sounded like he might be coming round to the idea.

"Can you confirm, categorically, that you would still love me, after your little fling?"

"Of course!"

"Well, I'd like to bring that back to the discussion later."

"OK."

Ed continued.

"You have said you do not wish to hurt me. Even make me uncomfortable, right?"

"Yes."

"And I agreed that sex with another man should not hurt me... if I agree to it."

Ed looked at Doris.

"Then I do not think Doris should be burdened with this important decision. I will make it."

"That's not what we agreed."

"I know it isn't, but it's not really fair for Doris to have to pass judgement. Whichever way this goes, she'll end up carrying some regret about her decision. Maybe even guilt. You cannot go ahead with your plan unless I agree anyway - irrespective of Doris's view."

"OK, what's your decision?"

"My decision is to comply with your request. You may have sex with another man, providing I am allowed to set reasonable conditions. Doris should judge, impartially, whether or not those conditions are fair."

"Wow!"

"They will be presented logically, as you would expect, and Doris must speak up if she does not agree with any."

"Fair enough." Doris replied.

"But if she says they are reasonable, you must abide by them. If you have sex with another man, and break any conditions, it's divorce."

Lois nodded and leaned forward on her elbows.

"Reluctantly, I agree with you. I will allow you to do this. You can do it for fortyfive minutes; oral, vaginal, or anal. Choose anyone you don't already know, and do it you like; your place of work, the back seat of a car, in a dirty alley, even in the marital bed."

Lois beamed.

"Thank you Ed."

"As you have my agreement, the sex will not hurt me. But other things you've said would hurt you - will also hurt me. So logically, the following are not permitted. No groping, squeezing, sucking, or any other kind of foreplay. No kissing, no dancing, or dinner and drinks. And you may not use phones or the internet, or the help of friends, to find your mystery stud."

"But ..."

"No buts, this is what we agreed. Doris?"

"He's right Lois."

"You can only have a straight fuck; that's what sex is. Take off your clothes, open your legs and he penetrates you; any position you fancy. During the act, you can have your passion - deep kisses, clutching his buttocks, telling him how big his dick is; for fortyfive minutes. I'm concerned you might cheat with the timing, so I'll have to be present, to ensure he doesn't con you with fortyfour minutes. Or drag it on to fortysix!"

"That's not fair!"

"Doris?"

"Sorry Lois, but it's fair and logical, as you requested."

Lois slumped, and Doris stood.

"If that's all, I'll be off. Good luck to you both!"

Ed saw her to the door, where she whispered "That's a relief, well done!"

He returned and sat next to his dejected wife.

"You won Ed. Are you satisfied?"

"Not quite. I have a little more to say, specifically about your statement 'I don't want to go to my grave only ever having had sex with one man'. That worries me."

"Oh?"

"You may agree right now not to indulge this fantasy, but I don't think it will ever disappear. If you do go ahead and have another man, I'll divorce you."

"I won't do it."

"Then your fantasy will remain unfulfilled, and it will eat away at you. So, from here on, I will always be suspicious. For the rest of our time together Lois, which may not be much longer, I will not trust you, from here to my grave."