All Comments on 'Something We Have to Talk About'

And occasionally, we make bad jokes about the lack of good Divorce Attorneys in Stanislaus County (Scott Peterson, the Congressman, etc). But this is horrible. How could this man marry such a bad person? How can you say these are "normal" people when they show such blatant contempt to "the man they love"?

You write "But, in too many cheating wife stories I have read, the female characters seemed to either have a full blown narcissistic personality disorder," and then proceed to write about one of the most narcissistic women I've ever read about.

When you have her say "You're supposed to love, honor and cherish me. Those were our wedding vows Jonathan!" All I can think is that no sane wife could seriously make that statement after telling her husband about her betrayal of her vows.

For breaking me out of this fog! She did say something about Narcissim! Know I can grade it as i should have earlier.

She is a cheating, slut wife who thinks see knows it all. Her husband should call her bluff, divorce her and sue her lover for allienation of love from wife and go for the kids. She is the cheat and courts do not always go on wifes side.Whats he realy got to lose, she already is fucking someone else and making him a cuckold unless he retalliates. Good writing but no sence to story, Try Again.

Could someone please write a continuation to this story and get the wife to understand what kind of selfish person she really is! Thanks!

...or you would not have stated what you did. In a "no fault" state there is still room for lawsuites and civil suits, especially for alination of feelings and other things I won't go into here. Susan's choices set herself and her lover up for a very rude awakening and Jonathan could conceivably get custody of the children. Marriage is seen by some as a contract. You are ignorant of a lot of things ... maybe you should find out what before you write again. Sounds like you are writing about what you wish for instead of reality.

It's as if you were describing a gunfight, and concluded the story, "They both went for their guns."

You have the wife say. "Jonathan, he's a very nice, kind, caring, understanding, man that has been hurt very badly and needs my love, attention and care."

Nice, kind, caring, understanding men don't have year long affairs with the married mother of three young children.

I agree with most of the comments already written here, but especially with Anonymous in Scandinavia. If she thought out all these argumants ahead of time, like she so obviuosly did, then she was even more of a bitch than what is being written. She evidently doesn't understand or love her husband because of what she said during the conversation. She gave absolutely no consideration on what or how he would react. She should have tried to imagine how she would feel if it was him doing this. Yes, you should also learn the laws of divorce. He could end up taking her to the cleaners. All he would need to do would calm down enoough to have another conversation and have a tape recorder there. Have to remember that as long as it's a face to face meeting he doesn't have to tall her it's being recorded. So many things you did wrong, but I did like the plot of the story. Keep trying though!

What would she do to her husband if she hated him.She says she started the affair because the Lover was hurt,yet she guts,castrates,stabes in the back her husband,and leaves him alone and hurting and terrified to be with her lover the attorney who will leave him penninless if he can't deal with this. I have never read of a more heartless,coniving self centered disgusting bitch in my life.May she and her good guy lover rot in Hell!If this is real life give me fiction,no one could be this heartless.

The problem is that NO has acted. All you have provided is a single speech by a self-centered woman who claims to love to men. While this might be a nice start to a different kind of cheating Wive story, it is not really a story at all.

You have simply protrayed the husband as a duffus, and W as someone with no heart and no sense of love or loyality. Other than that there is no story.

I hope there is better within you.

I am intrigued. She puts together a cogent position, well thought out in advance. He is a meal ticket and a past sperm provider, nothing more.

Now there should be a continuation for the husband to get his act together and take whatever action he decides is appropriate. In the face of what she has said, it will have to be quite drastic.

Trogted

Her idea of her marital vows were to love, honor and cherish. She seems to have forgotten forsaking all others.

I don't think this woman knows or ever knew the meaning of real love.

First of all let me say that fireman who go and fight fires in the open, here in California, are next to God. We honor them as they should be. At the same same time we hate divorce lawyers. They are the scum of the earth. The slut wife get's no sympathy here.

If he's a smart man then he should find a way..Write about his revenge. She deserves it. A fireman should know how to set a fire with our getting discovered. Too bad the cheating bitch would be inside with the kids gone.

Oh yes...I hated her. That's a good writer.

Not bad... but incomplete. No matter what you might believe telling a tale and leaving it without an ending is far far worse than not writing it at all or writing it badly. This one in particular NEEDS a proper ending. As it is I can't see it as standing on it's own.

On the emotional side this story is clearly written by and for women. No offence but I can see clearly that you have no knowledge or understanding of the male psyche. The vast majority of males, at least those who are not swingers or who have open marriages, will not accept this sort of situation.

I confess that I, being male, have little to no understandng

of the mind of a woman. I don't know how you think and I think that no man really does. However, I can tell you that men, most men at least, cannot love more than one person as

a partner. To most of us the concept of having a true and meaningful romantic relationship with more than one person is incomprehensible. We are just not built that way. We can't multitask effectively when emotions are concerned. When we give our loyalty and affection to a person we give it to only that person. Sure, some men, even a lot of men when they pledge their loyalty and love do not really mean it but that's just the same as with women. It's really a human flaw rather than a male of female one.

On the emotional side, men are not simpler or less compicated than women and any woman who believes that is dead wrong. We do have emotions that are deep and complicated and meaningful. However, what we are is direct. We have no fondness for compications or uncertainties and in our mind when the one that we have given our loyalty to betrays us for any reason we immediately begin considering him or her as an enemy and act accordingly. In our minds, particularly in our emotional landscape something either is or is not. We have no skill with ambiguities of the heart.

In this story we have a man, flawed as all humans are, who is working a lot in order to pay for his family's needs. To be truthful he doesn't give his complete attention to his wife, but let's be honest how could he possibly have enough energy to do so? In his mind he is not doing wrong because he provides for his family's survival and wellbeing. When he gets home all he thinks about is to unwind and relax. Thoughts of romance are the furthest thing from his mind. So in this case he gets home, tired yet proud of his achievements and his supposedly loyal wife admits that she has been betraying him for over a year and has absolutely no intention of stopping. So the poor guy explodes as anybody would in his situation as he feels that his actions and sacrifices have been meaningless. So even if he could understand and forgive she really doesn't give him that chance.

On the other hand we have the wife. She's been married for some time, she's getting older, she's not that attractive anymore, the glitter has been out her marriage for some time as it inevitably does, she's not feeling that loved anymore and most importantly she's feeling bored and restless. It's a recipe for disaster. So she goes and has an affair. To her credit (somewhat) she tried to get her husband to listen although in the classic female tradition she neglected to mention what he should be listening for believing he should know. Anyway all of this is understandable and because we are all human and flawed it is perhaps forgivable.

What is not forgivable is her whole attitude about the situation. She tells her husband of her actions and not only does she not apologise she stands proud and says that not only does she not intend to stop her affair she intends to continue even though her husband disagrees rather violently.

She presents her husband with a fait accompli and blackmails him so that he will do nothing and justifies her actions with that little excuse called love. She says that she loves her husband and perhaps in her way she does but it is not true love as she follows her desires without consideration for his feelings. She is cruel and she mocks his anguish so even though she professes love I believe in truth she only desires financial security while tending to her own desires as she knows she is not likely to find another husband. As for the lover she may love him or not, he is not that important but the fact is that despite what she says she would have abandoned her husband in a heartbeat if she was sure she could marry her lover.

So as it stands I can only believe that she is an insensitive, uncaring, cruel, deceitful, egocentric person. Really a fine piece of work. Actually, I really believe that she should see a psychiatrist as her actions and behavior are not those of a completely sane person.

Is this a person that you consider emotionally stong, logical or for that matter sane? She IS strong, I'll grant you but in the way a shark is strong not a human. She is nothing but a user and abuser. She is human but if she is what you consider normal then I have to wonder what you would consider abnormal. If these other stories that you mention are "fantasies of testosterone overdosed, teenaged minds" then this is a fantasy of a very confused and muddled female brain.

Is this what you consider strength? Is this an example of the love and loyalty that you give to your partners? I'll accept that you may have the capacity to love many people but love is not an excuse for betrayal nor is it a reason for forgiveness. If this story is an expression of your beliefs then I am sorry for you and even more sorry for those you "love".

about the author's opening comments. If this crazy bitch of a wife doesn't have some sort of mental complex then who does. This woman is a heartless wack job and her personality totally conflicts with the authors statements unless I misunderstood them. I expect that the husband would be willing to give up the nice house and live on what he has just to be rid of the whore, I know I would.

The writting quite well done also. BUT the story was not relavent to your lead in. Where in the story was anything logical? Points made like, who he is is no concern of yours, or any of the details of the affair. She feels burdened by the knowledge but seems to want to rub Jonathans face in it every chance she gets. And talk about being narcissistic, to the point of insanity I'd say. I feel that you missed your own intent. Maybe you wrote this story to start a war in the LW section? Well the first shot fired was a headshot. Good luck, you'll need it.

Even in a no-fault divorce, child custody (& the bulk of the money)would likely go to the non-cheating spouse. The part of the story that put me off related to the wife's comments regarding her husband's likely outcome from a divorce and his chances of finding a lover. Speaking from experience, no matter how "good" you look, if you are a single woman with kids, it is very difficult to find companionship. Even if you are a bit overweight and balding (and I resemble that remark), guys have it much easier. My ex was already attractive after she dumped me and then had both a boob job and a tummy tuck so that she looked 30 instead of 45, but, 6 years later, she is the single mother of 4 while I have been happily married for 5 years.

Further, if the wife had any hope of continuing her marriage under any circumstance, much less the hope that her husband would allow her to keep her lover, she would have made some kind of effort to appease him, not give him Bogart's ultimatum of "you will take it and like it." This almost guarantees that there will be violence.

Well written with an interesting premise, but I, at least, found the conversation between wife and husband almost ludicrous. Her thinking and conclusions were convoluted. She committed adultery, broke her marriage contract, threatened him with destitution, and also tells him of her deep love for him and committment to him????

While the story held one's attention, it was so illogical that the possible emotional impact was destroyed. Can you imagine what kind of life this poor schmuck would have to lead in order to "save" his marriage? What would be left is a sad, broken, demoralized male. Logic would dictate few rational responses to her monologue. I know what mine would be.

You say cheating is about change and passion, Nici. Nope…not even close. The definition of cheating is: to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud. Cheating is all about betrayal, pain, a lack of personal integrity, and enormous tragedy. Well, okay. If those are the “changes” and “passions” you’re talking about, then you’re right on target.

Nici, you say you dislike the usual portrayal of a cheating wife as narcissistic and “histrionic.” Then you paint a picture of an arrogant, narcissistic woman with as “full blown” a personality disorder as any who have ever been written of on this website. Huh? You think a woman whose only consideration is her newfound addiction to another man is anything BUT a narcissistic individual? You have the cheating wife leaving her husband in the end, admonishing him for being less than understanding about her needs. Whew! How considerate of others is that, huh?

Nici, how did you miss the fact that an adulterer is a person who believes they, and they alone, are the center of the universe. No one else is quite real – all of the other little people around him or her serve only to enhance the quality of life for a person…well, a person like the narcissistic little woman you write about. An illustration? How about: she arrogantly derides her husband for his inability to accept her superiority and his stupidity in not accepting her terms. Only a narcissistic woman could ignore the feelings of everyone else around her like that.

Look, the deceit and fraud necessary to keep adultery secret for as long as a year is indicative of an individual who has no personal integrity, or who has lost the integrity they’d held before. What part of dishonesty, lying, treachery, and…yes, cheating, do you not get? Why, Nici, didn’t you explore the lack of personal honesty that is a prerequisite for a cheating wife to do what she does? (Or do it from the perspective of a cheating husband. It doesn’t matter; it’s the same dynamic.)

You say adultery is about love and hate? Well, you sure put in enough hatred and disrespect into your story, Nici. The woman in your story surely shows us enough of those emotions for three stories. But, where is the love, Nici? Surely, you don’t think the infatuation she has with another man is love, do you? If you do, you have my pity.

You have the cheating wife leaving her husband in the end, exiting stage left in a theatrical huff. You don’t understand that is the definition of “histrionic?” What in the world made you think you thought you were writing something new? Actually, you’ve only followed the same old blueprint. You’ve only thrown together the usual words and storyline as if by rote. There’s nothing refreshing or new in your words.

You want to do something new, Nici? Hey, how about writing how adultery shatters the betrayed spouse’s whole world, and the world of both sets of parents, the children, and the families of the partners in that adultery? What about the loss of trust and innocence engendered by the betrayal, the treason committed by the betrayer? You know what? That spreads throughout the extended family too and even affects friends and professional associates.

Nici, old girl, in spite of your pretentious little introduction to this story, you haven’t done anything with the characters in your story that hasn’t been done a few thousand times before. In the future, I suggest you not pat yourself on the back so enthusiastically in a preface to your story. When you seek to instruct the rest of us on what we’re writing and then you do nothing more than mimic the worst of this genre, you expose your own lack of research and total deficit of even the smallest amount of deep thinking about the subject.

You know I just had to read this myself. Not often does Harry gets so caught up in a Rant that the heavy swearing starts. Then Lightyear gave you a 75 so I was curious who it was I would agree with.

~~

I have to ask this though. In the opening you said:

"I've read some fairly nice stories. But, in too many cheating wife stories I have read, the female characters seemed to either have a full blown narcissistic personality disorder, a histrionic personality disorder or they're so weak and spineless that I can only wonder how they could ever exist in the real world. They can't. They can only exist in the fantasies of testosterone overdosed, teenaged minds."

~~

But here is what I read on the first page:

"If I don't tell you, and don't explain, there's no way that you would or could understand. If you would find out, hear this from someone else. You could only think badly. You would react foolishly and only hurt yourself and me, hurt us, you and I"

"Her eyes were now staring, boring into Jonathan's, not only awaiting his reaction, but also daring, challenging, combative and defensive. She was now ready to defend her adultery, openly and honestly before Jonathan. Her first baby steps had been taken, now she could no longer hide"

"Susan's eyes flared burning, her face hard and harsh, and her voice rising, shaking in anger, "Jonathan! Shame on you! Do you think so little of me? Do you love me so little that you think I am some slut, a nymphomaniac, a harlot and whore walking the streets? Right now I'm so ashamed of you, to think that you could care and love me so little. Right now I am so disappointed. I don't think I've ever been more disappointed in you before. How could you ever think something like that of me, you own wife and mother of your children? You're supposed to love, honor and cherish me. Those were our wedding vows Jonathan!" Susan snapped those last two sentences out. Intending each word as a slap in Jonathans face."

"Susan did not answer him at first, but turned and walked away, opening the door. "Yes, Jonathan I am going to him tonight. You're so angry and drunk I'm afraid of what you could do. You've said enough cruel things to last me a lifetime. If I hear anymore I'll only learn to hate you. I only pray that tomorrow you'll think differently and that we can talk."

~~

Uhhhmm, at what point in this story was she "NOT" brain dead, had full blown narcissistic personality disorder, or a histrionic personality disorder? The only thing that I got from this was that she "Didn't" seem to be suffering from a weak spine, or a conscious. Heck for that matter morality never seems to enter the picture.

I mean who feel "Righteous and Divine fury" after telling someone not only are they cheating but they are going to "continue" to do so because the other person needs their love and the sexual contact just as much a the husband and their children do. And if her husband doesn't understand then "He's the one with the problem" not her.

Sorry for your first venture into LW you didn't make the woman any better than any of the other "testosterone overdosed, teenaged minds". To me it appears you tried to create a "Strong" female lead who felt justified in her decsion to do what she feels is right, while creating a weak willed selfish man who only wants everything other than his wife and hits the bottle when she tells him her secret. You really failed at both. You created the exact same thing you berated the "Males" for doing with thier character by doing it with the female lead. How does that make this story any better than the other "testosterone overdosed, teenaged minds" who write it as the males doing this?

Can't say I liked this much. Sorry.

-Risq

WOW!!

Let me say one other thing. Me and a guy I work with just had a converstation early this morning about something someone we know was doing wrong, and what he said goes hand in hand with Metzov comment. Metzov said "When you have her say "You're supposed to love, honor and cherish me. Those were our wedding vows Jonathan!" All I can think is that no sane wife could seriously make that statement after telling her husband about her betrayal of her vows." The guy I work with called this the "The rules apply to everyone "BUT ME"" syndrome. And that's something I guess I'm not the only one who saw this here as. She doesn't appear as loving but just as selfish as any of the other women you will read about from any other author. How can a character basicly say "Your supposed to love me no matter what I do" and fail to do the exact same thing she berating her husband for not doing? Shouldn't she be willing to love him and be understanding while he is ranting about finding out his wife is spreading the love to another man, instead of calling him petty and leaving?? It seems that all this main character wants is to have two men when ever she wants and is trying to force the husband to agree with her. It's funny when a man does this he's called selfish and cruel, but when your character does it, she's called liberated. Go figure. -Risq

This type of story should never be written. I agree with the man in this story.His permission wasnever asked before hand. He was not given the chance to say no way or even yes to the circumstances. When we get married we say some vows to each other and they are meant to be maintained at all costs. If one is going to cheat on a spouse they need to let the other spouse know in advance so they can decide to stay togethger or to divorce. This story is outrageous and if I was either man I would want exclusive rights to the woman. If not thenm divorce.

The writer has certainly created a firestorm. It is a well thought out story, which if it ends now, ends as a terribly flawed story. We have a wife who is everything the author professes to abhor in the preamble, totally selfish or narcissitic, concerned only about herself, prepared to divorce her husband if he were to do what she has done. At the same time she belittles him, but professes that her love will turn to hate if he continues to belittle her. He is only allowed to accept her terms, if he is to show his love for her, but nothing about her love for him, or any sign of a logical thought process.

She understands that he will misunderstand her, how the heck is he to feel. Would she really want to stay with him if he were to say 'yes dear, that's fine. I'll be home whenever you feel you can lower yourself to be with me. After all I know you love me. And don't worry, I'll never give you any reason to doubt me."

But at the same time, there is room to salvage the story, and no, not be selling her to be a crack whore or infecting her with aids as some readers would have occur, but by allowing a dialogue, and maybe a show of some understanding on her part, showing that she can get in touch with reality. Give the husband his opportunity to make his reasoned response to her, after all in the story he only had time for the knee jerk emotional reaction, which was done in a very real way.

I'll hold a final mark for this story for after a much needed conclusion. The author sure has succeeded in getting our attention, lets just hope that they take the time to write a realistic conclusion.

".....living well." He should think about what his marriage has become and how he will feel after a year of this. He should move on, regardless what the financial circumstances will be. Then he gets on with his life, regains his self respect, maybe meets another woman. Greyhound 61'

Now I know why you wrote such dribble, you are one of those "BALL BUSTING" women that love to put down all men..You think that all men should be a WILLING cuckold, not me sister. I don't think he will either..BTY, I do really feel sorry for you if this is truly your outlook on a cheating spouse!!

Paul

If this is the complete story it is one of the worst in this section. Perhaps the author can rescue this sory by follow up chapter(s). This wife must be one of the worst characters ever in a story and it seems she and her lover have everything planed to destroy her husband financially and mentally.

Author please respond to the comments given. In any case thank you for your efforts.

Roger

Nici:

You preface your story with describing that behavior which you find unacceptable portrayed by wives in stories similar to yours. Yet you depict a wife whose behavior would qualify her for citizenship on Mars.

She is ashamed of her husband and disappointed in his being aghast at the news that she has been involved in a year long affair with another man. She alludes to their marriage vows in retort to his not being accepting of her infidelity. I'm not even sure how she felt that to be pertinent to the issue at hand. Apparently she is of the opinion that said vows apply only to him and not her. She rationalizes her actions with the notion that she is helping this other man with his terrible emotional scar. Perhaps she should be even more altruistic and wander down to the local rescue mission. I'm sure that she would find a number of homeless men in need of her special "salve." And when her husband counters with the prospect of his having an affair, she callously informs him of how physically unattractive he is. Priceless!

So let's see... a wife who tells her husband that he is the love of her life confesses to him that she is having an affair; that the sex is good, even great; that by inference this other man is more physically attractive; and that she intends to continue to "minister" to this other man's emotional healing. What's not for a "soul mate" husband to understand?

Nici, you have presented to the reader a woman so consumed with herself that it's impossible to feel anything other than contempt for her. I cannot imagine any husband actually tolerating her behavior nor giving any credence to her position on divorce law. Your story has in no way supported your remarks preceding the story. It was not an enjoyable read.

P.S. I suggest you consider occasionally using the pronoun "he/him" or "she/her" instead of proper names. I wish I had a dollar for every time "Jonathon" was used in the beginning of the story.

After disparaging LW stories for their unrealistic characters, you write a story with 2 characters very much in the mold you abhore. The wife is comtempuous of her husband, while holding herself out to be model of virtue and understanding. Hubby works 18 hour days to provide what they both enjoy and is proud of his wife and family, so naturally he is to be dispised and humiliated. Happy ending not expected, but some kind of ending would be nice.

<p class="MsoNormal" align="left">First, I would like to thank each and every

one of you for your comments. Some of you wrote angry demeaning comments.

That’s okay. I expected them. I’m fine with that.</p>

<p class="MsoNormal" align="left">Others of you wrote some very interesting

comments and I will rethink parts of the sequel’s development. Please keep

your comments coming. I’m learning.</p>

<p class="MsoNormal" align="left">Yes, I am a newbie writer and am not as

proficient as I should be. I am trying, and I hope with time I can learn.</p>

<p class="MsoNormal" align="left">I tried in this first part to portray two

people, having equally strong characters. Of course, in this first part Jonathan

was overrun, emotionally cuckolded and blackmailed. Susan controlled time,

setting and content and played her cards to keep him off balance and in her

control. So obviously Susan won this round, but still suffered some critical

setbacks in her agenda.</p>

<p class="MsoNormal" align="left">Personally, I will agree with many of you.

Either I exaggerated, or she (and anyone else for that matter) must be bordering

on mental imbalance, to cheat. Can anyone be otherwise, and do such?</p>

<p class="MsoNormal" align="left">Also, (believe it or not) my personal

sympathies lay mainly with Jonathan. She does want her cake and eat it too. She

loves Jonathan because he is her husband and father of her children, and a

constant for her. Yet she is “in love” with her lover. She has become

infatuated with her own emotional high, and the newness of her relationship

towards her lover, etc.</p>

<p class="MsoNormal" align="left">Yet, she cheated, and my sequel must deal with

that. Jonathan must learn to cope, both mentally and physically with his new

environment. In my sequel, I intend to write how he learns to emotionally and

cognitively cope with his new life, his consequential actions and their costs

for Susan.</p>

<p class="MsoNormal" align="left">I cannot though see any other storyline than a

battle storyline. Neither can win, and both will suffer. Each will attempt to

out trump the other, or impulsively react. Yet still, neither will lie down and

play dead. Neither will I write my sequel with a wimp husband nor with a wimp

wife. Such people do not “normally” exist.</p>

<p class="MsoNormal" align="left">If any of you wish to write your own sequel,

please do. I will enjoy reading them all.</p>

<p class="MsoNormal" align="left">Nici</p>

But the story doesn't live up to your promise to avoid the "typical narcissistic" woman who cheats--because the wife in your story is emotionally detached from reality.

I'm wondering if you did this on purpose? Surely the story doesn't actually seem to you as though her behavior is more understandable, more justifiable than that of the typical cheating wife in a "Loving Wives" story?

But I'm hoping you'll continue this, or write other stories. Best, ohio

Really I had thought that this was going to be something different, but in the end it's the same as the rest. Your female lead is narcesistic and shallow, thinking only of herself. The husband is more realistic in his reactions, but I think really if you want to write a story about what happens when someone cheats and the aftermath that there are better ways to go about it.

Better luck next time

This doesn't work - for me, at least. I think it's because of the conflict between the suggested loving relationship (i.e. he loves her, she professes to love him), and the absence of even any basic human sympathy on her part. Her character could have been much more realistic if you portrayed her inner conflict, arising from two opposing relationships. As it is, she just seems totally uncaring, which jibes with the fact that he has never previously noticed this.

I don't know where you're going next, but to develop the storyline for him to accept the situation will be difficult, to say the least. If it's a 'worm turns' story, it might be worth looking at Ian Fleming's short story 'Quantum of solace' to see how characters like this can be made to appear real. Best of luck, though!

I don't want to repeat the other commentators. Some statements I would concern. The characters of your story are illogically, especially the loving wife. How could she argued she loves him, but in the same breath she promised to destroy him in the case of a divorce.

From writers view the plot have some holes. The characters are not enough elaborated.

Another thing to talk about is, you disqualify other writers as "testosterone overdosed, teenaged minds"

Thats bad style. This declaration makes you not better than many anonymus "bullshit"-commentators.

Your story is very emotional, my only positive remark. But I don't believe that a woman can deliver such a long-winded speech under that stress-situation.

Sorry

Nucleus

*about my bad english too.

Expressing in german is easier to me.

Do you really believe that it would happen this way? She brings up all these points (children, his own character and body) and she actually thinks that he would be okay with her decision? Talk about a fantasy, I don't think there is a man in the world that would put up with her and this situation.

There are so many problems in this submission; I have hard time figuring out where to start.

First, on your lengthy introduction and epilog. There are many long full length novels which could not (or would not) boast half the length of yours per your very short tale. My suggestion: If you want to shoot –shoot, don’t talk. If your passion is with writing a manifest about the human condition in modern life, it could be fascinating. Want to add another part about the course of modern marriages? Be careful, it’s much more complex and does not lend itself to intuitive anecdotally based essay – give it a try. Want to add a bit of “How to” of your own? - welcome. But when you take al the above and turn it into the light motive of the story. I want to say: “Excuse me; Rhetoric’s class is in the second floor not here. This is the fiction department” In the fiction department you need to SHOW us what you want to say with a story and through the plot and the characters. Let them convince us. Please don’t preach your ideology and Meta observations on literary genres, instead. You can always do it in the essays section.

Even without the declaration of intentions which you provided (The cheater would not be narcissistic; the division of power between the couple would be equal) it was evident that the characters were exactly what you said - but the opposite. If the wife is not yet officially diagnosed as suffering from a Narcissistic Personality Disorder, she sure is on her way (to a full diagnosis, we just need to know her a bit better) with very typical symptoms. Yes, just like all the other stories you decried.

The husband presents as equal to the wife? Actually, he presents as the most formulaic literary representation of the wimpy husband. So you definitely went with your gut feeling (no need for an editor?) and let him ‘have it’, and to hell with any credibility. He just pretty much sits there, listens to her self serving preaching and here and there, so that it does not comes across as a total sermon on her part, you allow him some ‘manly primitive curses’. Sigh. So much for non formulaic.

Regarding the dialog. Honestly, it was so unbelievable that at times I had to stop reading and because of my inability to control my laughter. My advice: try a dry run with another person before you submit your stories. Someone who isn’t too close to you and would be able to give you his/her honest opinion.

Yep, it’s hard to be special right away. How about setting a smaller but maybe somewhat more realistic goal for now - being reasonably good?

The good news : you are starting and if you are willing to listen and to change the learning curve is many times very steep at the beginning.

i could and DID

pound my pudding to

this cheating/hot wife

story ... pray continue

Having read your bio and your tendency towards bi-lesbian I understand why you painted him so poorly and helpless with her so selfishly & energetically foreign to life's reality.

A such, your viewpoint isn't looked upon very favorably by those of each gender as it isn't real - just contorted and twisted by your mind to disrespect him and males of every ilk. You have made him a male sub in this demeaning process.

You are emasculating him in our face and while some bi-lesbians or male wimps may love your forced male submission that is a very small segment - a very low percent of this worldwide readership - hence the emotions you stir will cause negative responses regardless of your technical abilities.

Be mindful that she is what you describe and it is inescapable that writers portray their own leanings, feelings, wants and needs - even though in words of fantasy. No one would write about something they disdain - would they.

With regard to a ch. 2 think about this. Your story foundation has been laid carefully. How do you contort either to be what they aren't now - what you clearly made them?

Leave it lie. Go on. Use your talents in another story to do what you said you could - paint life as it is and what realistically and consequentially results from it.

Or not.

Has Susan introduced their kids to "Uncle So-and-so" as their new daddy? If they are staying with Susan's or Jonathan's parents during her revelation, are their parents complicit in hiding the affair from him? She says she doesn't want him to find out any other way: Is it common knowledge around town that his wife has a lover? Susan wants him to know his place and maintain the status quo, but there's no way Jonathan could accept that. He should suffer public humiliiation, if he isn't already, just to make her happy? I don't think so. She accuses him of not thinking of the children should he divorce her, but if he were to stay, his children would have no respect for the man that lets his wife fuck others. That's unacceptable. The children will get picked-on for having an adulterous mom anyway, so his only option is to divorce her and seek custody. He's been putting in long hours to keep a nice roof over their heads, and is repaid for his efforts by being stabbed in the back. He's been working overtime for a few months during forest fire season, but she's been cheating on him for a year. Jonathan's hard work may put stress on the Freemont family, but Susan's adultery detroys it. Of course, she doesn't see it that way--she's more concerned with keeping up the appearance of happy parents and children. She wants to cherish the memories of her times with her lover when she's older--that is so vile!

********************************************************************************************* Nici's spiel in the preface is very misleading. I expected a different type of story. Instead, she writes a story rife with the very elements of which she complains. Was she going for irony with either the preface or the story? If she was serious on both counts, she doesn't see the forest for the trees. If subtle irony was the intent, I'm just too stupid to pick up on it.******************

As of this writing, Nici only has two story submissions to her credit. If Nici is not aware, many volunteer editors offer their services on this site. I have a grammatical nitpick in this story. To cite from "Something We Have to Talk About": "Then like the snapping crack of bullets shot from a gun, breaking the silence. Her words rambling and rolling, some times soft and barely audible, some times hard, loud, almost violent with passion, her voice quaky, her lips quivering neither less." The passages just quoted are fragments, not sentences. Grammatical nitpicks aside, I encourage Nici to keep writing, regardless of story category.

Your story sucks you don't get it what you wrote is just how it is but if i want to read that crap i'll read the letter my "loveing wife" left I am sure we all read this stuff to find some closure, not reality most guys wish that they handled the "we have to talk" scenario better instead of falling appart. Finish this story in a way that helps us not highlights our poor response to this situation!!!

Let's talk about this other guy. His wife died in an accident and he "needs" Susan to make him whole again? What rot! Why doesn't he find a single woman to tend to his needs? Better yet, why not get over it on his own strength? I lost my wife and I didn't go out and wreck someone else's life to get a little balm on my hurt. Susan is that most reprehensible of people: a hypocrite.

If I had known you were going to write a sequel I would have held off voting till I had read it. With that said I don't see how you can have a strong man that would do anything but divorce her. She went way to far. I can't think of much else she could have done to belittle him unless she had asked him to serve drinks while she entertained. If he's dumb he'll find out who the boyfriend is and meet him in a dark parking lot. If he's smart he'll put the bottle back where he got it and start documenting everything and find the best lawyer he can. He needs to find his kids take them home and find out if they have been exposed to her lover at all. If so he needs to get them interviewed by social services to prove that she been exposing them to her affair. The best thing she could do for him would be to stay with the boyfriend until he can serve her with papers. Even in a no-fault state her leaving the kids with him while she lived with her boyfriend could go a long way to proving who had the kids best interest at heart. A lot of no-fault states allow for joint custody as a first option. It will be granted unless it can be proven that it wouldn't be good for the kids. If he can document that her lover-divorce lawyer had been giving her advice on how to take him to the cleaners that could be a big help in any action against him. I can't believe the stupidity of this woman. It never occurred to her that her lover would have a conflict of interest when it came to giving her legal advice? I live in a no-fault state and I know that unless she were completely unemployable she would never get alimony. The worse case for him would be that she gets custody with him getting visitation, He has to pay child support, all assets would be split in half (she would get the house but have to pay him half the equity). He would have to pay for her reasonable legal fees. I really think her boyfriend would be open for legal action in most states.

Where in the hell is the spacing? It's hard enough for me to write without making a bunch of mistakes (let me know if I ever succeed) without having to go back and check one big glob of words.

Decent enough writing but I don't find the characters realistic. 50% of all marriages in the USA end in divorce and, you're right, cheating is a big reason why. I cannot imagine the logic which leads Susan to compartmentalize her life as she did. The notion that you can relate to another person without it affecting your other relationships is idiotic. Her kids will learn what it is to cheat on your spouse. Her husband will find out who her lover is with the simple expedient of having her followed by a private investigator. When her infidelity is documented and cataloged, it won't matter if it's a no-fault state or not because she will be proven an adulteress. So much for her threats to leave him financially hobbled.

I cannot imagine how one rationalizes the idea that you can love your spouse and yet deliberately cheat on them, when you deliberately give your affection and intimacy to your lover and deny it to your spouse. If that's love, I want no part of it.

Insofar as the other literary aspects of the story is concerned, it's plot is non-existent. There's no resolution of the central conflict and the lack of an impact character damages the story line.

The prose is reasonably good but there were a number of gaffs that mar the quality of the finished product. I can't the story a high mark on its literary aspects and I certainly do not agree with the ideas expressed here.

Excellent fiction this is not. This 50 is for you, nici, for a story not particularly well-told.

No matter how convoluted/irritating/confusing/pretentious … (fill the rest on your own) the story may be(and probably is), one thing you can’t take from the author – she drew what I believe to be a record attention (for almost a first time writer) to it.

Now if you just knew how to translate exactly what you did here, no improvements or changes, to the market at large, then you would not only have no more financial concerns in your future, but needless to say you would not have to engage with ill tempered readers like me.

I have known many men who were put in almost exactly the position that Susan put Johnathan in but with the exception that the departing wife rarely claims to still love hubby #1 (this is the most unrealistic feature in most of the LW stories - only a few authors [JPB, HDK, DGH] get the attitude of the cheating wife correct). Sorry to pop some bubbles, but this story is VERY real in that the husband is put into a corner and totally screwed.

The guy ends up with a choice of abandoning his children (and being a bad father) or being soaked with child support and usually alimony for years and years; always being the fifth wheel around the kids. Usually the woman doesn't bother to marry the new guy as then she'd lose her alimony.

The other option is for the guy to vanish, in which case either the woman ends up a single mom with no time, no money, and no man (as her schmuck boyfriend simply moves on to the next easy piece of ass) or she ends up with the boyfriend but a couple of years later has the same or worse problems than she did in her first marriage. The kids end up paying the price - they lose their dad and any semblance of stability.

The third option is violence. I'm not condoning it, but nici has set up a situation where Johathan really has nothing more to lose and the option of blowing wifey and boyfriend away - he's going to lose his self respect and likely his children no matter what he does anyway - can look very attractive. What Susan did was really stupid, in that any person who perceives that they have nothing left to lose can become quite dangerous. This shit happens (read the newspaper) and nici set it up well; it works the other way (cheating man) just as often.

The fourth option for Johathan is to bide his time and get revenge somehow (living well is the best, although Susan has made this just about impossible), which is what so many clever LW stories are about. This is hard to do IRL, though, as our emotions are just too strong and disruptive (the love/hate/anger/denial/sorrow roller coaster) and we make too many mistakes.

I can't say that I "loved" this story because it hits too close to home for that. But those of you criticizing nici's story as "unrealistic" are out in la-la land with BigFoot and the Loch Ness Monster. I have some wonderful swamp land in Florida that I'd love to sell you (and a couple of nice bridges too).

And the great majority are dead on. It is hard to make a comment about the cheating wife who lost her figure with the birth of her kids andn then became the mother figure to the newly widowed divorce attorney. After all, he will leave her fairly soon since he is so much younger. This is of course why he would not attract a sweetie since he is older and heavier. Since he is the whole love of her life and soulmate, she will began to look for someone else to mother and have "incest" sex with.

It must have been a hell of a set of wedding vows, he loves and honors, she leeches, loves all and dishonors.

I hope that this is an indication of future stories.

This seems to be a new fad on Literotica. Authors who write well, but present totally rediculous plots. At first I thought this was a satire, but apparently this plot is for real. Wife tells huband she is cheating on him, but hopes he doesn't get upset, because she still loves him and if he gets unreasonable about it, she will take the kids and sue him for alimoney. Then she gets pissed because he objects and she walks out on him. I still think the plot is a joke and can't be serious.

60 year old George

<p>The author wrote in her introduction: "in too many cheating wife stories I have read, the female characters seemed to either have a full blown narcissistic personality disorder... " I have to say that this is the single most extremely narcissistic woman I have ever encountered in one of these stories.

<p>Here are the diagnostic criteria of narcissistic personality disorder from the Wikipedia article on that topic. If five of them apply, there is a case to be made that the subject has the disorder.

<p>1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance

<p>2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

<p>3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by other special people

<p>4. requires excessive admiration

<p>5. strong sense of entitlement

<p>6. takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

<p>7.lacks empathy

<p>8. is often envious or believes others are envious of him or her

<p>9. arrogant affect.

<p>Does anyone have any trouble finding five of these that apply to this woman?

I liked your story, and thank you for your efforts. I should point out I like a story that captures my interest, and makes me think or feel. This one did both. I don't have to like the characters, nor the direction the story goes, to enjoy it.

I agree with the premise that a person, in this case a woman, can love more than one person. I have been one of the two. If it wasn't for your preamble, I would have given you a higher score, but you set the story up to lead the reader to expect more of your characters. Your female character is not emotionally mature, and in fact is quite selfish and shallow.

Her complete lack of empathy for her husband tells me she has no love for him. She only sees him as a source of income.

In almost every word, I hoped you loved me enough for you to accept this. And then he is a lawyer we have discussed this you will pay thru the nose if you divorce me. The slut has her cake and eats it to. The guy is to young for her to marry but not to young for her to shack up with. You have written the classic story of why states should not have no fault divorce laws. Does the bitch not understand automobile accidents, unforseen accidents and mishaps. She has been a slut for a year and admits the loves this other guy who is a lawyer with income but wants to drain money from a mechanic, give me a break. What she wants is hubby to pay all the bills so she and her honey can use his money to play. Dont divorce her leave, leave her with him to pay for. Yeah they could chase you down for child support but my gosh where and how often? Sell the house, sell the cars, sell the furniture. Burn the house to the ground before you go, take all of your current income and any savings, withdraw it all, leave her nothing at all. Seems cruel but she has one who can pay but wont after a year or two at most. By then another free piece of tail will have appeared and she can then find hubby and beg him to accept her back. Any real man wouldnt but then this is your fairy tail of a self centered egotistical lying cheating disloyal whore I would say slut but she has free services of a lawyer in trade for her ass. That is called whoring.

Your knowledge of Family Law is a bit warped. Read up on Income an Expense Declarations and Judicial discretion. I believe your preception of men's behavior and judicial conduct does not reflect reality.

I don't know what state Nici is from, but in Georgia, not only would he not have to pay alimony, he would most likely get custody of the children and make her pay child support, if he waits & gets evidence of her slutting around.

Her "fuck buddy" faces the very possibility of disciplinary action, possibility even disbarment, partiucularly if he's treating the slut wife like a client. This story is so far from realistic, it would be laughable, except that Nici seemed so sincerely to want the husband to get screwed over & then screwed up.

All in all, a piece of worthless crap, by an author who seems to have enough talent to do a better story, or at least one that did so resemble a fairy-tale horror story.

Chilled me to the bone! Whorrorfying! That poor dumb bastard! This is one of the most terrifying stories that I have ever read! My blood ran cold when she stated she would never leave him. Just plain frightening! What can he do? Run? Kill? Suicide? Typical female fantasy/attitude, just get over it, bury your pride & ego, we can just live as three, I want my lover & my husband.

This story (Somewhat) happened to a life long frend of mine. His wife was such a calculating bitch she did not confess until she was caught( she would not stop either). Where we live he would have been hosed if he divorced her ( this was 14 yrs ago) alimony child support and very little contact with the kids.

He worked his butt off because that was what he was taught to do for his family and because she wanted a higher life then could be obtained at less hours he worked himself to death so the family had the best. While he worked and the kids were in school she played around with a man (well off fin.) she met at church.

He was so embarrassed he told no one for months. she was doing it for over a year and he had no idea and he was afraid what people would say. But being a noisey person I kept after him because he was not the same always down and preoccupied in deep thought. He finally spilled and told me what his wife did and that he was srewed if he divorced her.

He also told me he was not working near so hard and that he was going to force his wife to get a job and he was using her family against her to make her go to work(her mom and Dad Worked in a printing shop togther)he said he would bide his time and let the kids grow and let them discover who there mother was/is on there own with some help from him

After a little more then three years of his working on the inside to destroy her and alinate the kids he did divorce her.

Since both parents worked and he had proof of her cheating and the kids begged the judge to let them live with the dad he was able to get majority custody and to handle the money ( he proved she was a reckless spender)for the kids she paid child support.

He said this was the hardest thing he ever had to do since he loved her from the beggining and he still saw the girl he loved every so often that many times he wanted to end it and work on the marriage but the idea of what she was cappable of doing scared him to death and he made it a point to not reward her behaior or let his kids be around such behavior that he pressed on. He is now remarried his kids are about gone. and the ex well we know the other guy got a even younger girl money talks.

I gave this a 50 because it can't end like this finnish it and get a higher score.

The first chapter of "Something That We Have To Talk About" by nici is similar to other cheating wife/spouse stories by other authors. This one differs from them in one way as it seems to be written from a womans point of view. Therefore, as a man, I did not enjoy it. This means that I have enjoyed other stories by male authors that were also not reasonable or real.

So thats my honest take on it. I read for enjoyment and I did not enjoy it. At least in many of the other stories there is some glimmer of realism. Also the story was devoid of color, innovation, detail and emotion.

You need to finish it up. Tie up the loose ends. I would be interested to see how you see it ending.

The main problem with this story is the total lack of redeaming qualties of the wife and her lover.You dislike her from the start for what she did then dispise her for her attitude and total disrespect and feelings for her husband and her family.She can't ever gain any respect from the readers,she is the worst kind of wife. The contemp for the lover is all most equal,he supposidly suffered a great loss the devestaded a man and his family for some sex.They are both disgusting people. The auther has said she will not soften the wife.With out the wifes relization of how dispictable her actions and words were to her husband who she supposibly has fellings for,this story has no chance.Iknow this stuff happens but most wives would't profess love and a pure heart like this bitch dose.

The author does a good job of explaining what they want to accomplish but the reality of the effort does not match the intentions - in fact this story absolutely sucks! However, if the author's intentions were to create a firestorm of comments - well then they have been successful. A spade is still a spade and this story is not worth the time it took to create or read it. Better luck next time!

I was looking forward to reading this story after reading nici's introduction, telling us what she was trying to do. She was finally going to give us a "fallen" wife who was not a cheating, whoring slut. Someone perhaps who actually loved her husband and family.

Instead we are given a woman selfish to the extreme who is trying to turn the consequences of her total betrayal back on her husband. And when he erupts on first learning of her cheating she informs him (1) If he doesn't accept the situatioin and support her in cuckolding him she will ruin him, and (2) if he doesn't agree to support her in making him a fool she proceeds to coldly inform him he is a most unattractive man so she has no worries of his being attractive to a decent woman. She doesn't come out and say it but is seems implied that she thinks he is much less than a man.

She lays on him the responsibilty for keepint the wedding vows but completely ignores the vow, the most important one to most people going through the wedding ceremony, to cleave only to one another. She had vowed to be only his.

This story which was supposed to show us how a better picture of the average woman and how divorce affects her. Instead nici has painted us a portrait of the most selfish, hateful and non-loving woman I have ever seen. This is worse than the gold digger out only for the man's money. This woman is out to totally destroy her husband as a man.

After the introduction this story is a slap in the face. I gave it a 25 based solely on the writing itself. The story is so far than was promised to nearly make me cry.

You write very well but this first offering is the female equivalent of a despicable cheating husband story. Suppose that Susan was Sam. Sam comes home and admits to his long suffering wife (a woman who has worked two jobs and looks after their 3 kids) that he has had a year long affair with this younger professional woman who had lost

her father.

------------------------------------------------------------

Sam then tells his wife that if she tried to divorce him he would take the kids and leave her broke. She would lose her home and friends because he is the pillar of the community. Sam tells her that it is just a phase but the sex is better than it is between them (She makes him feel alive). When his wife says that she can play too he comments about her birth marks, overweight body and sagging tits. Sam warns that if she embarrass and shame him he will divorce her.

-----------------------------------------------------------

You have painted Jonathan in a corner and you conclude that both will suffer. I submit that Jonathan needs to be freed from the bitch that he married because being alone is much better than living with her. As I reversed roles above it does not matter whether the cheater is male or female. Sometimes you marry someone thinking that they are right for you for all time but some character flaw like a tiny crack grows and grows until it fractures the fabric of their union. Is it sad yes but remaining in this situation is much worse. Now only for him but also for the kids.

----------------------------------------------------------

Now what are Jonathan's immediate options? He can leave town but there are the kids. He can divorce her but he has no evidence other than what she will admit into the court. He can accept the situation and lose his soul. I favor that he play along perhaps tell Susan that they should go to a therapist so he can "come to grip with the situation". That will give him time to gather evidence on her and her lover. He should probably work through his buddies because she will be watching him. He should also avoid any violence because they are looking for that also. Susan wants him to become a willing cuckold so she will not have to hide her affair. How about exposing her attitude to others (if she thinks this arrangement is OK then she should have no problem with sharing it with friends and family)?

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Once again it is not about revenge. Do Jonathan want Susan to pass on her values to his kids? Do he want some strange man around and guiding his kids? Whatever financial consideration Susan would be entitled to should go to the kids' welfare because there would be additional costs when she leaves the home. Susan changed without his consent their martial agreement with overwhelming basis toward her wants and needs. Susan says that she love him but she resorted to extortion, intimidation and emotional manipulation to try to bend him to her wishes.

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On the issue of equality, Susan could have said that she loved someone else and left it up to him to leave or stay without the threats, recriminations and disrespect. If a cheating spouse acts like this you can see why bad things happen.

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SleeplessinMD

First, it’s not in the wrong category, but it has the wrong title. There really wasn’t anything for them to talk about. She didn’t provide that opportunity. It should have been titled: Shut Up and Listen, Bitch!

Her “talk” consisted of giving him an ultimatum. His side of the conversation was to consist of either “yes” or “no” he would let her do whatever she wanted with no interference and without complaining.

Second, I can’t tell from your comment whether you got what people are saying. You pay lip service to agreeing, but you sarcastically say she must be mentally imbalanced to cheat. So, I’ll get into the absurdity of her logic.

She clearly loves him because 1) she said so and 2)… well, there is no 2. There is not behavior indicating she loves him but he should believe her word because she wouldn’t lie, would she? Well, maybe about most everything else but not that, right?

She has to tell him now because “we’ve decided.” Who is “we?” Aren’t they we? She has to tell him with her take it or leave it bitch because he might not react well if he got the harsher message from a stranger. Exactly how it could be any more harsh than her delivery I can’t imagine.

Next she’s ashamed and disappointed that he could think she had a bad motive for cheating on him for over a year and planning to continue it indefinitely. He is breaking his vow to love, honor and cherish her by questioning how her long-term love affair fails to keep her vow to love, honor and cherish him. Unfortunately, she didn’t explain it in any detail and I’m too obtuse to figure it out myself.

She did say it wasn’t about cheating or lying, though by pretty much any definition she was cheating and she was clearly lying. It is about love and caring for someone deeply. Unfortunately, she’s not talking about her husband. It’s about helping and giving something of herself that some man can’t do without. And hubby needn’t worry this could happen with someone else because there can’t be more than a few hundred million men in the world who meet that criterion. And she does love the guy and the sex with him is great, which apparently it hasn’t been with her husband. So there is no need for him to worry.

Can someone enlighten me on that point? What spouses worry about most are sexual involvements that include affection because they are the most dangerous. But she doesn’t just have affection, she loves him. How does she think this will ameliorate his concerns?

The lover gives her memories to hold in her heart when she’s old and there is nobody left to love her. What are the memories with her husband, chopped liver? Apparently.

Then she assures him, “I’m NEVER (emphasis added) going to leave you for him, or anyone else.” Why? Because lover is younger and it will have to end. Not because she loves hubby enough to make a life with him, but because he will still be around when she outlives her usefulness to her lover. She’s willing to let hubby hang around waiting to get her back and that’s why she’ll never leave him. How can he not be overcome with love, knowing she’s willing to let him hang around?

She refuses to tell hubby who he is or what they do. He’s not entitled to that as part of sharing their lives together.

When Jonathan gets angry, she tells him the plan she and her lover have devised to destroy the rest of his life, financially and emotionally, should he not tow the line. Maybe the refusal to allow him not to be a part of her life is how she’s showing how much she loves him.

Then she tells him nothing has changed between. “I’m still here for you.” I’m just having trouble understanding how telling him if he makes waves, either by attempting divorce or cheating himself she will see to it that he has nowhere to live but a cardboard box on the street is still being here for him.

Then she uses the delightful, often relied-upon saw, she hoped he would get past his selfish desires and “want the best for me.” Of course, he has said this devastates him. Why is it she doesn’t have any responsibility to get past her selfish desires and want the best for him? I’ve always wondered why the guy is supposed to put the woman’s happiness foremost, but she isn’t required to show him the same courtesy. Did I miss some fine print in the marriage contract?

I don’t list all of these things to recap the story, or just to show how absurd they are, though each is absurd. I list them in wonder that a person rational enough to make meals and keep a relatively clean house could so lack rationality on this matter that she could not see a flaw in even one of these assertions.

She can’t even look at him when she starts to tell him about her affair. Why not? If she is proud of it, why not say so proudly? Why the need to hem and haw? She doesn’t give him more than a few seconds before she brings out the ultimatums. That doesn’t show strength of character, it shows willfulness. Either she gets every single thing she wants or she will destroy his life (if she’s able to carry out the threat).

How will it affect her children? Visitation with daddy will be a few minutes a year at his cardboard box while they live in luxury provided by him. How, exactly, will they evaluate mom’s values in light of that? How will they evaluate her when they inevitably find from school gossip or some other source that she did it because he objected to her open affair?

She knows she’s wrong but doesn’t care. She wants what she wants and is willing to go to any length to get it no matter how much it harms her husband and children. That being the case, what is there to talk about?

Another matter: It’s very difficult to write a good story. You know what you intend but it doesn’t always get across to the reader. I believe this writer intended to show a strong woman. I believe, instead, she showed a selfish, willful, vindictive woman. Authors intend to show a characteristic and often hear from readers that they have misunderstood us. Actually, it’s misunderstanding from our point of view. From the readers’ point of view, we screwed up. Who’s right? The readers. If I present the words and the readers are too obtuse to understand, it’s my fault. I should have written it in a way they would understand, even though I may not have been perceptive enough at the time to carry it off. Don’t always assume that what you read is what we intended. We often get it wrong. When we do, tell us, don’t threaten us.

For those stories you don’t like because the author clearly has succeeded in getting his/her message across, say you don’t like the message. You can say it forcefully, but our death is not a cure. If you don’t like a cuckold story but read one because you were misinformed or misled, say something like, “I don’t like cuckold stories. I think they represent a feeling of worthlessness by the cuckold, and by the writer. I think the behavior is an attempt to hold onto a woman by the only way he thinks he can be of any value to her and reflects his fears she will eventually realize this and leave him.” It’s a stinging criticism that probably reflects current psychosocial thought but allows for different views.

The way we arrive at truths, understanding how things work, recognition of effective practices, methodologies, social constructs and a host of other things is by being exposed to a variety of ideas, not the least important of which are stupid ideas, because they help us understand what works and what doesn’t. I have learned way more here from the awful writing than the good writing. It’s much easier to see what doesn’t work and why than to learn the intricate details you need to implement to make writing effective.

Sometimes a really “stupid” idea turns out to be revolutionary. It looks stupid because it doesn’t conform to or even honor orthodoxy. Orthodoxy can be a very smooth road to stagnation.

Finally, I think, I rate the story as is very low because we’re presented only one side, an irrational agglomeration of concepts that appear to be the author’s point of the story because that’s where she left it. I’ll rate it much higher if she can effectively examine the issues raised, unless it winds up showing Susan as strong because she is willing to run headlong over a cliff in support of confused ideas, taking everybody with her.

if she believes that this wife in anyway loves her husband.

“How could you ever think something like that of me, you own wife and mother of your children? You're supposed to love, honor and cherish me. Those were our wedding vows Jonathan!"

Let me get this straight: While she was out having an affair for the last year SHE was Loving, Honoring, and Cherishing her husband?

Yeah I can see how she LOVED him so much she slept with someone else.

She HONORED him so much she LIED to him for over a YEAR!

She CHERISHED him so much that she wanted Him to accept her Love for another man and because he is angry at the complete lack of trust, respect, fidelity, and honesty she has shown him she has to go stay at her lover’s house until he should see the light?

She planned it all out to hurt him in as painful a way as possible and then tried to blackmail him into acquiescence!

“If you divorce me now Jonathan, I will be taking you to the cleaners. I will protect my children and me, first and foremost. Your welfare will not be a concern of mine.” As if it ever was I mean she loved him so much she planned out how to keep her lover and him paying the bills.

“You would be paying me not only child support; you would be paying me alimony, the court costs, my car payment and this house. Not even with the amount of overtime you have been making lately would you be able to afford anything but a cardboard box to live in. You'd be sleeping in your car or at work and eating spam and macaroni and cheese for at least the next ten to twelve years." YES, YES I CAN SEE NOW HOW MUCH SHE LOVED HIM!

I hope your spouse shows you the same kind of love this woman did and you are woman enough to let him move her into your bed and accept sleeping on the couch in your own home. This woman is nothing more than a piece of inhuman refuse that should be discarded at his earliest convenience.

My first phone calls would be to ask her parents if they support her in her taking a permanent lover and me continuing to pay the bills. My next call would be to an attorney to file suit for divorce on the grounds of mental cruelty. In the morning I’d close all of the accounts when the bank opened and cash in any retirement I had coming. I’d convert it to cash and have the divorce filed the same day. I’d take all the money and pay it into a child support escrow account with Children’s Services and demand a monthly audit clause so she must provide receipts for every penny to show it was spent on the children not on her. I’d go on welfare before I paid her a dime in alimony. They can’t garnish wages if I’m not working. Day labor pays by the day and her lover can foot her bills. His wife didn’t die, she suicided after learning what she let touch her!

She's supposed to talk to him tomorrow, or so. What happens then?

The writing is fairly good, but that's all that can be said for your story. I realize a story is just that, but there has to be some credible basis, some degree of logic and believability of the characters' behavior. Based on your bio and your writing style, I believe this represents one of your fantasies, where a subservient wimp cuckold husband is coerced into accepting his wife's lover(s) while himself being denied. You could throw in some fetish and cross-dressing to make this fit better . . . maybe some bondage where the husband is forced to watch, get humiliated. He should also clean up her lover's creampie . . . The woman does not love her husband, plain and simple. How dare she suggest that she does! She would not wish to hurt him if she loved him as she claimed. His reaction is normal, jealousy is normal. If she wanted to leave, he would be hurt but accept this, but no normal man would accept her terms. Others have said this and I agree. Her actions are also confusing at times; first she is strong and dominating (laying down the new rules to her spouse), other times she acts contrite. She contradicts herself; she is angry when he asks her if she was cheating on him and she is outraged he would think she broke their marriage vows; well, isn't that just what she in fact did? He really has but a few choices since she has carefully planned things to this point. Choice one: he can walk out, let her divorce him, and she probably will clean him out. He would have some self respect but little else. Choice two: he can say he needs to consider her "offer" and then he can consult an attorney of his own. I'm certain his options would not be as limited as his wife would like them to be. As others have pointed out, evidence gathered by a private investigator would not take long to acquire and would go a long way towards balancing the court's decision re: division of property, alimony, custody, etc. Choice three: violence. Again, others have pointed this out. He just needs to lay a trap. If he has nothing to lose because he has lost virtually everything he worked for, he may make this choice. Maybe some of his mechanic buddies can help. The lawyer/lover can have an "unfortunate" accident and so can she.

Geezus! You drove me crazy with the Jonathan's. In the first paragraph, you used the name 5 times. Sometimes twice in the SAME sentence. When ony one character has been introduced, it's kind of obvious who you are referring to without repeating the name. Try some personal pronouns. And hookup with one of the volunteer editors who, hopefully, would have caught something that annoying.

I didn't finish the story. When you introduced Susan, Cindy, Tom, Dick and Harry, I was afraid my head would explode with all those names appearing 3 or 4 times per paragraph.

BTW, any time the author has to write a full page of explanatory information, the story is never worth reading. If your characters can't tell their own freakin' story, then you have failed as a writer before you start.

After the autor's comment I was looking forward to reading this story. Many cheating wife storys have a woman with low self esteem or is deranged and neurotic, so one with a woman who is strong willed and goes into an affair knowing what she thinks she is doing is good. But the concept got lost in the accept it, i will keep doing it and up you jack philosophy. It doesn't matter if it were to be a wife or a husband that did it it is WRONG everyone knows what wedding vows are about and the basis of any wedding is to support your partner. This was an awful story that would be one of the poorest peice of work on this site (interseting considering some of the weird stories) because it puts down a marriage which so many in this world believe to be so important. How about a rewrite?

The whore who had been his wife has plied him with her lover's opinions, now it is his turn to get a seasoned professional advocate involved. A real lawyer can probably offer many mmore preferable options than his adultry prone wife has presented. She says she will return to finish the talk, why? She has already ruined everything concerning her former marriage. She has nothing new to add.

He, being a master mechanic could possibly appear to be startled when the police come to tell him this thieving bastard and his whore of a former wife have been injured, maybe even killed, in a car accident just as his first wife was. Not that I would imagine he could be responsible, somehow.

Oh, yes. It probably should be "between he and I", not "between him and me"

Your story telling talent is terrific. You merely need a little help in drawing logical, if not rational, conclusions and cleaning up your loose ends. And, perhaps a little editing. But overall a very good start.

her and as soon as I found out, I dumped her.

It hurt like hell, but she wasn't worth it.

You don't inflict that kind of pain on someone you really love and care for.

Last I heard she was on her second or third husband.

I guess her first didn't buy into her bullshit either.

Your provocative story, dear author, is a refreshing change and has become a really great "success". Therfore don't worry about all those barking dogs out there. As we say in German: "Barking dogs don't bite!"

Your story is simply good and I liked it a lot. It will be your own choice now, to let it as it is or to write a sequel - finally it's your story. However, if you decide to develop a conclusion, I will keep my fingers crossed cause your job won't be easy. You put a hell of traps in your first chapter... so please take your time and pay attention!

I really had a good time, while reading it and I hope for more to come!

Bavarian

But the poor guy really doesn't have a option...either way he's screwed so I guess he's really got to kill her and the boyfriend.

First off congratulations on getting more comments in the quickest time for any story I have ever read on this site. I am not sure if it is good or bad but it has to be a record.

I am a bit ambivalent on this one. First it really does seem to be realistic as to what would happen when a woman tells a husband she has been cheating. Although there were threats there is no insane divorce settlement where the guy ends up wealthier than when he was married, he doesnt''t end up with that great girl next door either while the cheating wife becomes a drug addict or soemething totally revenge oriented. Likewise the husband wasn't given the chace to wimp out before the story ended. Who knows what could happen down the road.

Still you did say that you ddn't want to write about a narcissistic female but that is what you ended up with here. Also you overstated the husband's happiness before he walked through the door. It was just stated too many times in the beginning.

Nici, you done good! On another story, one commenter said emotional satisfaction (self-esteem) is gained through ‘accomplishment’ but neglected the fact that men and women have very different definitions of the word. Men gain emotional satisfaction from manipulating things and performing tasks. Women gain emotional satisfaction from successful relationships. These are vastly different paradigms. You have portrayed this difference well.

Many of the commenters here don't seem to have been around women who stood up for themselves. My own wife has told me many times that if I tell her to do something, that will be the last thing on the face of the earth she’ll do and if I tell her not to do something, that’ll be the first thing she does. She probably wouldn’t, but, still .... Those who gave anecdotal evidence of similar situations are correct. While wifey is at an extreme end of the spectrum, she is quite possible.

Women can love more than one man at the same time. Easily. Sorry guys. Wifey’s comments about the reason for the affair are dead on. It’s NOT about sex. It’s about relationships. She needs more emotional sustenance than hubby can provide. Hubby is expected to provide for his family financially but to a woman, that’s just background. She expects him to create a completely satisfying emotional relationship with her and when he can’t, and few hubbys can because they’re guys, she looks elsewhere. Most look to family and friends but some look to other men. And they blame hubby! Look up books about affairs at online booksellers. From one book review, ‘Women’s affairs are not about sex. They are an unconscious way of communicating emotions--such as helplessness, hopelessness, emptiness or despair--that are too painful to speak aloud given that the spouse is, in large part, responsible for the emotions.” And guys, when it comes to being bad about relationships, I’m one of the worst. I can’t do what I should do but at least I don’t deny that I should do it.

Women will go on the attack under many circumstances and wifey’s comments are within the realm of possibility. I am very familiar with this attack dog mode, having borne the brunt of it many times. Women are quite likely to refuse to divulge the details of an affair. Women are pragmatic and the wedding vows are an ignorable technicality. My own wife, when commenting on a seduction I witnessed, said about the wedding vows and betrayal, “That’s irrelevant! He made her feel comfortable and safe”. A long time author here once said that the dears (women) had buttons that can be pushed and if they are, then the dears just can’t help themselves. Not what I wanted to hear either, but it’s the truth.

The story actually has an ending right where it is. Hubby is screwed. Actually, they are both screwed. Wifey’ll lose hubby and then loverboy. There are no winners in divorce. However, Nici, I look forward to a sequel, if you so desire. Thanks for writing. It was a great read. You can lead a horse to water ... Oops. You can lead a guy to a more realistic understanding of where women are coming from but you can’t make them believe. They just don’t want to. It upsets their safe, little boy fantasies of the way the world works. They want to believe wishes are fishes. Or, that women think and behave like men. Right. Sure. Next fairy tale, please.

Phil

Love, honor, cherish, through sickness and health, and FORSAKING ALL OTHERS, CLEAVE ONLY TO THEE, untill death do us part. She may think she loves him, but she doesn't as she has already plotted against him with her lover. She does not honor him, as she has taken that from him. She does not cherish him, because if she did she would have told him about this in the first place and not continued this for a full year. Your female character is the most self-centered woman I have ever heard of. She wants to continue her affair with his blessing, but refuses to allow him the same. Talk about having your cake and wanting to eat it too.

I must say i did enjoy your story. I have also read your reply to the wonderful comments posted. I look forward to reading the next installment. To promote such a reaction from other readers is certainly a gift,( i wanted to shoot the wife )regardless of what anyone says, keep up the good work.

Women are just brainless, soulless bodies? You contradict yourself, my friend. If she feels anything for Loverboy on an emotional level, that means she cuts some from someplace else. Her children? Maybe. Sibs, co-workers? Perhaps. But it's obvious to everyone but you and the Author that there is no love for Hubby. You have lived in a number of disfunctional relationships if you believed she showed Hubby love on any level. Why not just say "The Devil made me do it"?

If you've read many of Tigger's comments you should know trying to tell him anything is a waste of time. I think you'd have to change his wife's mind and then wait for her to tell him what he thinks.

justice sometimes is better than revenge.destory the lover and wife in the public.there no love for a wife who would do this to her hubby.she said she love him,but that not love.love is not to hurt or destory the one you with.this woman has turn her back on her kids as well as the husband.the writer said the hubby works overtime for money for kids for school there is where his valves are.wife can talk about love,but the love she talks about is hate,there is a tin line.hubby needs to except the marriage is over and give wife rope to hang herself.put her betrayal out in the open so her family can see and then walk away with the kids.that would be the best way for him,there is no winners.the hubby didn't start this crap,but can finish it.when she left to go with her lover that was the end of their marriage.at first i was piss at the writer for the one sided view and then i'm a man i'm from venus or mars.

You DO realize you created the first sign of the "Apocalypse" don't you?

You got "the Troubadour", "60 year old George" and "Harry" to all agree with each other on a story. Usually they are all disagreeing with each other. A complete first.

Yes, women can love more than one person at a time. Do some research. The answers are out there. If you are saying a person cannot give 100% to more than one person, you are obviously correct. Some in the mix will get more, some less. She lived with hubby for a long time before the other man. Yes, she does love him. The way you or I or hubby would like? No, obviously not. I suppose one could say ‘love’ takes many forms, many of which most of us might not recognize or agree was ‘love’. Whatever. One size does not fit all.

Phil

First, this story made me proud of the commenters! So many angels, personal stories, different takes - wow! Much wider scope than the usual suspects! I thank you for, even inadvertently providing the platform for everyone. What a Woodstock!

I had some additional thoughts, this time about style subtlety and realism. Your writing is obviously evocative and intense. But, and I mean no malice here, it is neither realistic nor subtle. One common theme that you hear from authors and actors who talk about their writing or about acting is the level of research they put into their work. After learning more about the subject and/or a person, the common comments are that they were surprised by the qualities they found which defied the initial, more superficial image they had. Public images tend to be more internally consistent and simple. If you wish more marketable for public consumption. If you want to really portray realistic characters, you have to experience at least once, a period of studying a person, records or autobiographies that will take you to the subtleties, to the idiosyncrasies, to the internal tensions between different directions which our characters push and pulls us all. When we interact we show only some of what we feel/think: some in words, some in body language. All this richness could make for much richer less predictable and much more nuanced telling of any tale you choose. Compare to that what you did is more like a quick caricature drawn in five minutes for, being kind I would say, the “Lampoon” or a similar satirical Magazine. And believe me, there are stories, even in the much maligned “Loving Wives” section which are subtle and credible.

Where is the plot to this story? The husband comes home, his wife figuratively bashes her husband into submission, he gets drunk, and she walks out the door to her lover.

If there is a beginning to this story it is very truncated and if there is an end to it I must have missed it. The middle is composed of the wife's monologues concerning what she needs and what he must accept if he loves her.

The author, in her prologue, states she wants to write about real people. Heaven help us all if a person such as Susan really exists. The character of Susan is too over the top to be readily believable.

The writing is OK although there are numerous errors that one of the volunteer editors would have caught. The repetitive use of first names rather than pronouns was particularly distracting. Perhaps the author's sequel will be more reader friendly.

Research? What research is needed to know that when someone does something knowingly HURTFUL to you (and doesn't agree to stop), he/she DOES NOT LOVE YOU! It's that simple. And if she (as you and the Author says) DOES love him, then thank all the Gods of air and earth that she doesn't hate him.

1. Never ever build or even try to support your POV on any subject by either: 1. Information from on line bookstores. They provide you with what amounts to infomercials to the book you are looking at the moment. It is in no way an independent view of any of the books. They want to sell the books. They quote excerpts or recommendations that fit best the target niche their marketing department have defined.

2. Do not rely on anecdotal information even if the source is a cherished and highly valued one, such as one’s spouse. It does not stand to reason that you would take her personal beliefs as a base or even as a reasonable support for any valid generalization on how women (little more than half of the world’s population) view the wedding vows.

Unless of course all that you said was tongue in chick (didn’t sound like it was though)

I love situations like this one. The comments are as good as, if not better than, the story itself. I am giving 50 for the story and 50 for the comments.

Boyd

The story demonstrates how people can rationalize behavior. As an attorney, I observed that my clients always had a way to rationalize their behavior, just like the woman in this story.

The whole story is nothing but one big troll and everyone gave the author exactly what he/she wanted. Hasnt anyone every told you guys not to feed the trolls?

I gave it a 75 because:

- I hate trolls -50%

- you did a fine job of trolling though +50%

- comments you got are also interesting +25%

- subject and mechanics dont count since its not a story, its just a big joke on all the people who commented (me included).

ever one sso quasy, idjets, and prob insanity. Wet por writars write stuff. you quitics should sut up. maysbes you learn only a stories just famtasy. You'se phonyies fellows.

It was interesting that she would quote their wedding vows to him, but she forgot "forsaking all others"! A story of boredom with a husband who is going through middle age, and a very manipulative wife who no longer respects her "man".

NO thanks!

Tim C.

There appears to be a serious disconn disconnect between the IQ of the wife and the husband. Would a woman with such a high intellect marry some one so stupid? Probably not.

It could be that the shoe's actually on the other foot:

The mechanic husband's really the one with high IQ. Being able to talk a lot, talking fast, etc. --- even with an ability to recite book titles, poems, and other such socalled clever/sophistication stuff --- don't mean much in the IQ department, if IQ really means "intelligence", "natural intelligence."

As I said before: I never worry what the characters would or would not do or would or would not say, etc.

I'm more "worry" about the writer/author: are they really smart enough to churn out truly clever stories? Or are they going to churn out nonsense such as this and think they have actually written brilliant stories about life and tragedies?

Roughly about 1/2 of the readers gave this story a "100" and 1/2 gave her an "0" or "25", so it is roughly a very mediocre/average story, the rate at which the comments have been rolling the last 24 hours notwithstanding.

Statistically, some one is going to be the one, or two, to attract a lot of overwhelming responses, so this is not an exceptional thing. It is statistically meaningful.

Now, if the story attracted overwhelmingly "100" or overwhelmingly "00" and achieved it at this rate of comments being posted within 24 hours, too, then, yes, it would be considered exceptional.

But as some rather good writers have already noted: the story itself is really neither that well told nor clever. I think the "overwhelming reponses" are due mostly to astrological effects (as Carl Sagan would have sadly observed; not that he'd have read stories like this, of course!, that is, if the "statistical explanation" is not to your liking,,,,,

You wrote this to wind people up! Looks like it worked. Congrats. Didn't think much of the "story" though

People do hurtful things all the time to people they love. Usually one doesn’t set out to do that, but it happens. Especially guys. Especially me. I agree that hubby is lucky wifey didn’t hate him. ----- Apparently, I’m a good and trusted listener as I have talked to any number of women who have spoken quite eloquently and sadly of their relationships with their husbands. Admittedly, this is not statistically valid. I stand by my comments. Men and women have quite different paradigms. They write books about it. Men are from Mars; women are from Venus. Can’t live with them and can’t live without them. This is not a new discovery. ----- Now, to inject a little humor. Maybe the author could do something with these. My wife recently announced with breathless disbelief that she had finally found someone who could outtalk her. I didn’t think that was possible. She also recently announced that the stores are getting too big. This is cruel and unusual punishment to dedicated shoppers like her and I think there may be a lawsuit in there somewhere. Just kidding. I do thank all commenters on this story for being civil in agreement or otherwise. It’s a welcome change. Phil

For finally admitting the "Heroine" is insane. Those are the ONLY people who fit your description. "People hurt the ones they love every day"? Says who? That's the quickest ticket out of my and any other sane person's life. What you and the Author describes is lunacy in it's purest form (or Sado-Masochism). Check this out-

Yeah man, I remember you knee capping me in 1988. I also remember you blowing away the other knee in 1993. I was really pissed at you when you poisoned me Spring of '97. You really got my dander up when you killed my dog in '03. But, I know you love me and I love you, so let's stay together!

Does it still make sense to you?

As someone said below, people do try to rationalize their actions, but this one went too far. In real life this stupid woman would very possibly become seriously dead. Back someone, man or woman into a corner like this and who can tell what would happen.

As for the loving, kindly man she is running around with. What kind, loving man deliberately sets out to completely screw up a man's life. Screw his wife? Yeah I can see that happening. Doing this - not a chance.

And where the hell were her marriage vows - you know the part about "forsake all others." How the hell does she have the gall to to quote his marriage vows to him.

If I were a judge, and this man could show evidence of what happened here, I would be very inclined to give the children to him, regardless of their ages.

As for the house, I think the chances of her getting the house are pretty damn slim. He is entitled to at least a portion of the house, in most states probably 50 per cent.

great thought provoking

I stand by your right to stand by your opinion(s), even though I am sure you realize that there is a difference between opinions based on facts which have too do with the world and beliefs which are free of any proof.

By the same token I still feel it would be unadvisable to stand by self help and relationship advice literature – popular as it may be without checking the science behind it first. Recently, it came out (not as a big surprise to me) that certain generalizations which pointed up to great gaps between the genders were not founded on independent science but on secondary sources which as it turns out did not provide such references either. Exactly –not a good sign.

In further cross section independent studies, claims regarding significant differences between the genders on both competence and performance of various language claims could nod not be replicated. It was found that women do not have larger vocabulary nor do they talk more or faster than man. I am not saying of course that there are no differences between genders in either language competence or performance, but that they are most likely: First, much more subtle than some gender based popular relations books claim. Second, frequently you will find that those results are still contested as far as how good was the science which was used and how to correctly interpret it.

My two rules of thumbs on new social science finding: do not buy into any global dramatic differences across such gross divides as gender when it comes to highest functions of our brains (such as the language). And second, always look for the science behind what is claimed to be the new revelations of the month. Like: is it based on original research; how large was the sample and such. You will be surprised how some don’t feel the need to allow you to judge for yourself if the way they cooked their conclusions is good for you, or maybe its better leave them on the shelf.

BTW, TiggerToo, any relation to Milne’s Pooh?

From the look of things we have all pretty much talked over your contribution. You’ve created an evolving bulletin board about…every thing. I think your work is done here author.