All Comments on 'When We Were Married Ch. 04D'

I ask again, What happened to the RESTRAINING ORDER that Debbie put on Bill? How convenient that it was forgotten....

Author is losing track of the original story line....getting too many sidetracks. Watering down the story, and overloading it with too many other details.

It is starting to get confusing with all the tangents the author discusses.

Getting better? Thank you.

Very entertaining FICTION ! I am loving it. Strong emotional power

as it makes me want to write the next page!!

sucks! All the author talks about is her breasts and this laid or that laid. All these

pages same stuff only a different page.

This story has depths that are almost never seen on this site. The writer here is good enough to do it as a profession.

I think that Debbie has be subjected to a very harsh rape and assault by several men a while back, and some how is repressing those memories, and all that hurt and anger is now surfacing from her unconscious mind, and some how she blames Bill for it.

This is some damn good writing, lots of passion, emotions and some very believable characters, thank you for sharing your work with us.

If the memory is real. She's upset he didn't rescue her again?

Why not just end it after they walk out of the courthouse. I have a terrible feeing you're going to turn him into more of a sissy wimp than he's been so far.

Wait for readers as it gets better as this very long and sometimes needlessly long story reaches the end.

Both got serious issues but looks as though Bill is trying to some right things.

Truly a tea jerker near the end. Many of us go thru life with lose ends, divorces and estranged kids and we wonder how to repair that? But on a brighter note Debbie ia one fucked up bitch, pardon my french. Always looking for someone else to blame. I mean what a shallow bitch. If every one got a divorce because the vision of the or husband had changed over the years I don't think you would see very many married people over the age of 50. But it is true a friend of went to a high school reunion of about 25 years and when he came back he said most of the guys had trophy wives just dumped the long time wives to trade 'up' or down as the case maybe. Pretty shallow people. I feel sorry for the young women who married assholes like that cause there 'older' husband will eventually dump them or get older and fat and maybe get dumped by them What goes around comes around. Still going strong with this very long story.

Crying over a story, sad.

Please don't let this be some drawn out, cuck raac. It's been so very rewarding to this point.

I really love your writing(its like reading a published novel) but I´m starting to fear that you maybe got in trouble with the pacing a bit. Currently I expect this story to end with a reconciliation but with the pacing of the story right now it will feel a bit sudden. Especially because we can see into both Bill and Debbies head and their thoughts... They are growing as people but not enough as a potential cupple. But maybe I end up wrong...I guess I´ll see in a few hours/days haha

I cant believe there are such despicable comments on such a great story.

Given real world statistics, a woman with Debbie’s path quite literally would have never been able to have a successful marriage. Studies have proven that the more partners a woman has, the chances of divorce go up significantly. It’s clear she likely had hundreds of partners before she got married. You made her a literal caricature and into someone who is in the top 0.001% of the population in terms of number of sexual partners. Her count is not just high in comparison to the average it’s pornstar level high and clearly hundreds of men. It’s not remotely realistic at all. If you had given her a partner count of 20 then that would have more realistic. She still could have been a slut even with that amount but not one that fucked literally everything that moved and had zero dignity, shame, self control, or pride.

" I wasn't in bed with those guys. I was in bed with him. He won me, not them. I wanted to tell him to be a man and grow some balls and treat me like I belonged to him, not like I was doing him a favor by being with him."

facts

If everybody had "Debbie Vows" (...until death or you get too fat), 94% of all US marriages would end in divorce.

The writing is well crafted, but there are lots of problems wit the plot and the characters and how the plot and characters cohere

I find it hard to believe that a woman (Debbie) who suffered that kind of trauma to be behaving the way she is. Dressing provocatively, letting men rub their dicks on her, flirting with her daughter's boyfriend, wanting the ogling that men give her, in other words behaving like a slut! Victims of rape would be scared, untrusting, or probably hate men and will have some apprehension about having sex with strange men. That kills Debbie's character for me. She is not a real person.

Wife is just a whore. She ended the marriage when she said "I don't love you" to Bill...

God, I need a psychiatrist, my minds in a whirl. Whose side am I on, I have no idea, from one paragraph to another. I truly believe that they are both good people. I will never have it that Debbie is a slut, she may have been before her marriage, but not since. How many women don't enjoy being hit on, when their husbands appear to have lost interest in them, she may have flirted but never strayed, that's the important stat. Bill's a great genuine bloke, but his pride is ruining his life (remember pride comes before a fall) he could have another 40 or 50 years with a gorgeous woman who really loves him and in return only wants his love. He should pull his sell together, bury his pride, go to to see her. Tell her he's been a silly fool and ask her to give it another try, she would snap his hand off. Then take her in his arms, kiss her passionately and give her a real good fucking. Sorry about my bad language, not good from a mother of two, but there was no other way of putting it.

Getting tired of his self pity, she was a slut who got off teasing and rubbing on other men. Get moving already it's over.

I feel no pity for a woman who flaunts her body and flirts/teases men the way she does. She has no concept of what she is doing beyond the instantaneous pleasure she gets from playing men. She has no concept of what can happen beyond her immediate situation. She keeps saying that she has brains and telling everyone how smart she is but her actions show just the opposite. She keeps blaming her ex-husband about being his fault that they were divorcing. Cheating is not always a physical act. It is almost always preceded by mentally leaving the marriage which she had apparently done years ago.

I did not want to feel pity for this woman, that was a low blow. Even so wonderfull twist, magnificent execution. Great work.

This was obviously a flashback memory/dream to the night at UNF that brought Bill into her life and made him her hero.

Possibly she'd never had that dream while they were married because he was always there and her was her 'knight in shining armor' protector despite her growing revulsion of his physical deterioration.

The fears from that night now resurface when she's discarded her protector.

That 2am rape scene... Urgh. Seriously disgusting.

I'm just not sure whether this was a pure nightmare, a buried memory or or something that actually happened in her own bathroom that night.

I just feel... so goddamn bad for her, which pissed me off, 'cause I REALLY do not like Debbie!

Man, I hope some douchebags aren't really breaking into her house to gangrape her mouth... that's truly too disturbing.

We both seem to enjoy ... the use ... of ... elllipses...

This is just a comment and not a judgment of DQS punctuation usage.

One other comment, with Deb going back to her maiden name shouldn't she be addressed as MS. and not MRS.?

My second time reading this story which is in my top 10 stories on LIT,

thank you for your story telling skills.

JJ

I think Debbie is very conflicted. At the end of the confrontation between Bill and Debbie talking about Bill telling the two kids that he loves them ---

Dabbie asks Bill, "And how do you feel about me?"

No responce from Bill. and the storry moves on to the divorce court hearing.

What the hell is that about? She does not love him any more? or does she?

Pour little hot slut wants it all, Bill and every other man with a dick? I think she is having "seller remorce" Like when you clean out the basement and discover you through out something you need the next day.

To bad Debbie, once it is in the dump, it is VERY HARD to get it back... Hehehe.

"Actually, to be fair about it, I had thrown her to him" - Why is he being so hard on himself?

"but a rug rat doesn't sound so terrible right now...MY rug rat." - Well, that comes pretty close to ruling Debbie out. She's 40, or almost anyway. Yeah, Janet Jackson is 50 and pregnant, but that's fairly unusual. If he wants to father a child he should be looking for a younger woman.

"I wanted to kick his ass and tell him that I didn't want to be his mother and hold his hand." - Maybe if you had kicked those other guys' asses, and he didn't have to think that you needed those other guys to get turned on for him, he wouldn't have felt so inadequate, so unworthy of you.

"I wanted to tell him to be a man and grow some balls and treat me like I belonged to him, not like I was doing him a favor by being with him." - AGAIN, maybe if you ACTED like you belonged to him and wasn't doing him a favor by being with him!

"Maybe because a guy I thought I'd grow old with let me and our marriage go?" - Again with the "Blame Bill Game"! Was he overly devoted to his job? Yes, but thatbis NOT the same as "letting you go". If you had put HALF the effort in convincing him that you believed that he was worthy of you that you put into flirting with other guys, convincing him he WASN'T, maybe things would have been different.

it always comes and the sun always shines, until it doesn't, TK U MLJ LV NV

Why is Bill such a lying hypocrite???????

Yes it was necessary to make Debbie bad regardless of what some think. You just don't do things the way she did, you just don't. Not enough bad can happen to her. I wish Bill and Ailene could have gotten together as you can tell he was starting to really love her and I believe she would have loved him. Authors never do anything for the good guys even though he had some faults. I can only hope that sometime later they can get together on a more permanent basis.

Your characters are real.

I feel a lot of sympathy for both.

You are a very fine writer. Thanks

It wasn't necessary to make Debbie so bad.

I find it very engrossing and entertaining. Some elements and exchanges are a bit tedious, but I figure the author knows what he wants to accomplish.

Thanks for the enjoyable read!

Please keep writing.

Too much of Debbie who was a lying, cheating slut.

The story is too long. Encounters and interaction are redundant. No closures? Sorry DQS, but you're indulging yourself and leaving your readers behind to doze off and try to keep from Googling something else. I've enjoyed some of the other stuff you have contributed, but geez ..... get a grip. You are better than this lengthy trial and tribulation. Personally I think the characters are all totally dysfunctional and self absorbed and all with mostly loose screws with the moral compasses of hyenas. I would kick Bill's ass and tell him to get over the slut, and give him last call on his beer guzzling. I would offer a porn contract to Debbie ASAP before her boobs lose the battle with gravity. Then I'd pimp her out on the streets while she's still got some earning potential. What a worthless slut.

DQS .... shorten the stuff down, dammit !!!

"not like I was doing him a favor by being with him."

But she KNEW that's how he felt. Did she ever make ANY effort to convince him that it wasn't true?

No, instead she danced with the kinds of guys that he felt she REALLY wanted to be with, and obviously enjoyed their attentions, even when they got out of line. It's no wonder he lost interest in going out with her. What husband with an OUNCE of self-respect would want to watch younger, taller, better looking men rub themselves all over his wife, to her obvious enjoyment, let alone one who already felt that he didn't deserve her?

Earlier, Bill told Heather that the divorce would be final on September 19.

But then the divorce was final on August 19.

"Yeah, I guess sometimes. I could read it in his eyes sometimes when we went to parties or some hot guy hit on me. I liked guys flirting with me. I liked the feel of a big hard dick rubbing up against my thigh and knowing the guy who owned that dick would chop off a nut to put it inside me. I was never going to do anything about it, except fuck Bill's brains out after the party.

"But I could tell that he was hurt. And I've have to be extra special loving to him to make him feel better. And most of the time it was okay. But there were times...there were nights.. I wanted to kick his ass and tell him that I didn't want to be his mother and hold his hand."

So, she KNOWS what the guys at the parties are doing is hurting Bill, but instead of slapping some faces, and stomping some feet with spiked heels, she gets off on the attention, and thinks giving Bill some "special loving" later makes it all better.

Why not "special loving" WITHOUT the hurt?

Your talented that's for sure, but I'm afraid you've made a big mistake undertaking this extremely long, often boring & slow moving tale. Your lack of using a good editor is becoming more & more evident, there's just far too many silly little sub plots that do absolutely nothing to enhance or improve the story. This little detour about Fr. Dunleavy whilst interesting had NO impact or business being told here right now. I know you've finished all the chapters now & I cringe that there's still another 8 to go, hope I have the fortitude to read them all. I think you've done yourself, this story & your readers a major disservice by dragging it out like you have; sorry but my respect for your skills is beginning to wane. 3 ***

This story is ridiculously overlong. This "chapter" was just a rehash of the guy pulling the same self-pitying crap (too bald too short too flabby) as some "ridiculously" hot woman fawns over him. And how many "worst days" of your life are you allowed to have in one story?

Get on with it already! this hour by hour shit is for the birds drivel. I'm just reading because I thought by this point in the story there would be something happening

A decent editor could cut this writing by 1/3 and would keep the reader from losing his/her mind from all the mistakes - consider on next time.

In spite of the fact that he really had failed his wife and family, he truly is a good man. It was touching that he contacted Dunleavey's son.

Good read

when Debbie starts to realize or properly her shrink reveals the great trauma which led to her destroying her marriage. The trauma of the rape which appears to happen at one of the parties her and Bill attended in the bathroom. No doubt she had been flirting and teasing the men so they (at least three) grabbed her. The pissing on her was an act of revenge not lust. The fact that she forgets about the rape indicates how deep the trauma on her mind. So Debbie was raped but culd not tell Bill because of the impact on his job which she knew he loved. He could not unlike before rescue and protect her so she begins to disrespect him and hate his job. Since she fell in love with Bill because he had saved her before now since he could not protect her from these rapists she finds another younger protector to love her. To justify her actions she must find fault with Bill.

Most cheating wives stories end with the divorce which took 4 long chapters. I hope the reconciliation is completed in half that time.

Well worth the wait.

Just caught up with this epic tale and realized this dismal cheating slut deserved to be raped and probably was begging for it. She obviously cheated in various ways in the past 10 years of their marriage so it is inevitable that she will reap what she sows & deserves. She should do the plot a line a favor and jump off a nearby bridge so the rest of them can move on to a real life without a slut hanging around.

Anxiously awaiting the promised next chapter. PLEASE soon.

You write very well, however you give too much leevay for the cheating wifes/sluts.

Most of the guys I know would at least try to "Torch the Beach" since theu reachly deserve it.

Why don't you consider yr endings in this light

Regards,

Al

There is something that has been bugging me, and recently it has not come up again. size mentioned it again, and I went "aha".

It's Bill's secretary, Cheryl. size has said that Cheryl is a "reliable" witness. I doubt her reliability. size thinks Cheryl is reliable because she told Bill the truth when he asked her what she thought of him (in attractiveness).

Hence, she would not lie to Bill when he asked Cheryl what Debbie did during those dances.

My problem with this is threefold.

First, how WAS Cheryl's relationship with Bill? Good friends? Just colleagues? She didn't like him much? Did she hate his guts? Depending on that, her answer that Bill looked like a flabby whale might very well have been a put down.. Her answer is subjective, not objective. She wants to keep her job, so she can't go overboard even if she wanted to.

Second, there have been two instances where Cheryl did something for Debbie, that Bill did not want her to. Cheryl told Debbie where Bill was, when Debbie asked her. When Cheryl was pondering, Debbie told her "I'm not asking you to betray him, I just want to know where he is." Which is EXACTLY what Bill did NOT want Debbie to know.

"I don't want you to betray Bill, I just want you to betray Bill." basically.

Second instance, with the Angel of Death stuff. Debbie walked into Bill's office without warning, without notice. Cheryl knows all about Bill and Debbie's problems. Why did Cheryl not stop Debbie? Why did Cheryl not at least warn Bill? She let Debbie in, just like that. Why?

In my opinion, Cheryl, even as a supposedly neutral outsider, is in favor of Debbie more than Bill, her boss. She will listen more to Debbie than Bill, and ignore his direct commands regarding Debbie, despite working for him.

Now, onto the third part.

Bill asked Cheryl whether anything untoward had been going on with Debbie during the dances. Cheryl replied in the negative, that Debbie was good at defusing potential bad scenes.

My argument is, did Cheryl watch Debbie all the time? Was she even there all the time Debbie was out dancing? I doubt Cheryl was acting as Debbie's chaperone, or even wanted to, so there could very well have been times that there HAD been "untoward things" going on, and Cheryl missed those, or wasn't even there.

For instance, the rape scene. I'm not very certain, but was this in a club somewhere? If Cheryl HAD been watching Debbie like a hawk, how could she have missed that? If she DID miss that, there could have other times she had missed.

Also, would Debbie really be dumb enough to do something on the dance floor, surrounded by dozens of people who would see her? No, it would be somewhere private, somewhere Cheryl would not be able to see her. It's not like she'd give people incontrovertible proof like fucking some guy right on the dance floor.

So, although Cheryl did not lie to Bill as such, there is no way she could have known the full truth either. She is not a reliable witness.

Here is a quote from Chapter 2A after Debbie notified Bill of her intentions of divorcing him. Later that evening he is pondering his married life with Debbie. These are his thoughts:

"But I had never looked at another woman and seriously thought about cheating on my wife. I hadn't given the love that I had pledged to her to a stranger. And if I had had the kind of problem that Debbie had had, if it had been me that had kept in shape and her that had let herself get fat and flabby, I knew I would have gone to her and tried to make things work.

During her two pregnancies she had gotten huge and it had taken a while after each to re-gain her old body. But I can't remember ever looking at her and not seeing the woman I loved. It was her under that flab and those extra pounds. Why couldn't she have done that for me?"

From this very statement, it is obvious Bill never cheated on Debbie.

Richard

Just wanted to drop interested readers a line. I've just posted 5A tonight which means that it will run, if it follows the Lit formula, on Sunday 9/12 or Monday 9/13. This is about 18-20,000 words or six full Lit pages. , It's pretty dense...but hopefully readers who've been following the story will enjoy it.

After reading what I wrote, I realize that it could be taken entirely different than I meant it. I did not intend to imply that Shoe was attacking JennyBear or even that she could not handle herself. I was trying to say, (in a obviously flawed way) that he should not bother to match wits or semantics with her, like some of the others, because he would lose. Hell, I know I would fair no better in the same match. She does not need me to defend her.

I unfortunately, too often let my dry sense of humor and or lack of verbal skill, (in this case typing skill) get away from me and assume that people automatically understand me. I will try to do better and again, I am sorry that I was unclear and I apologize to you both.

Gus

Bingo. You have put into perspective what I have feebly been trying to say since chapter one.

The e-mails were written before the first scene.

"DAMN YOU ARE GOOD." Keep up the analysis as you make more sense than all of my feeble ramblings, and JennyBear, yes you did have it handled, but I'm glad Gus made his thoughts public.

Tom

Gus, what can I say? I had it totally under control. Shoe is very intelligent, he knows what buttons to push to get y'all to react.

I realize I am going against reason in entering into this with shoe, but... in for a penny in for a pound.

Shoe... will you try one thing for me, please. Go back to the first chapter and read the emails. Then go back to the very beginning and read the first scene again. Really read that first bedroom scene with the knowledge that all the emails have already been written.

You see, the author is writing from Bills perspective, hence the repeating I am Bill Maitland". It is a plot device to start with Bill's chronology of events, his discovery of facts. 'But' you must understand that the emails and dating have actually occurred before the bedroom scene.

When Debbie says; "I'm sorry for saying it that way, Bill. You know I love you. You're the only man in my life. I love you more now than when we married. You're the father of my children. This is crazy. It was just a slip of the tongue and it didn't mean anything." Where is there any honesty? She has already been telling her boyfriend that she is going to divorce her husband.

Before you point it out, I intentionally said; 'Boyfriend and Dating' Yes, and I mean exactly that. When 2 coworkers or even just friends meet for a meal, they do not discuss their underwear or grooming habits or especially their bedroom habits with their spouse. You do not shave your crotch and wear special lingerie for a coworker or friend.

Shoe... I hate to keep bringing it up and this may even be pointless, but, Who has lied? Who has confessed to lying? Debbie said several times that there could be no future for her and Doug, so besides selfishness and jealousy (from the young girls near Doug's apartment) Why would she bring him to her house, to screw her boytoy in front of her children. Both kids have complained about her actions and the noise. Both kids complained of her actions with their friends. Bill Jr does not want his friends to come inside. Can you give me one good reason for her to allow Doug in her house?

In a nutshell, I do not hate Debbie, she is not evil, but, she lies, she cheats, she tries to be intentionally cruel, (telling Bill to hire a hooker after telling about doug's big cock) and Could you find one time, (when the story is from Deb;s POV) that she is not derogatory about other women she encounters? Besides relatives that is.

Vietvet, JennyBear, etc. etc, I know that I should not have bothered... But, I guess I am just another idiot that does not learn his lesson...

Gus

Shoe, have you read Q's latest "Separate Vacations" ? It's pretty good, I'm on page four right now, so I have to run.

"Shoe... If you are for real, and not a sane person who just enjoys tweeking people for the fun of it, you still have to be smart enough not to go after someone like Jennybear."

*

JennyBear, I hope you don't think I "went after" you. I think you brought up a thought provoking statement about the question, "What constitutes cheating." I obviously thought you over stated Debbie's actual transgressions and perhaps was more aggressive than necessary in saying so. Please accept my apologies.

*

Others: For the record I believe that there are reasons for splitting up other than cheating. Debbie may have given Bill ample reasons, I just don't think "cheating" is one of them. IMO What she has done is cumlatively enough to stay split up if that's what Bill wants to do. By the same token IMO she hasn't done so much that reconciliation is out of the question.

'Separate Lives PT.01- 03" by Longhorn_07 is outstanding, one of my all time favorites. The author is also one of my all time favorites. <P>

“That Sunday Afternoon” by K.K. is also a good read. <P>

“Through Different Eyes” by Postscriptor is quite short but very entertaining. <P>

If you like stories in the same vein Q has written, Try “Billy Ch.O1-05” by the Celt and “Jan and Tim” by Cageytee both include unbelievably forgiving males. <P>

This is just off the top of my head, I know I’m omitting some great stories.

<P>

TY Gus

Shoe... If you are for real, and not a sane person who just enjoys tweeking people for the fun of it, you still have to be smart enough not to go after someone like Jennybear. She has an intellect and common sense. Do NOT let her picture in profile fool you. (by the way JB, you are still my version of literotica's pin-up queen! cute with a brain...)

Since it will be awhile for the next chapter, could you entertain us all with your justifications for Mary Kay Letourneau, (An old story, I know, but, It could still be fun to read your pearls of wisdom) Was it the evil husband or the sophisticated 13 year old Don Juan who was responsible. Come on and put your heart and soul into this endeavor. If I recall she had three children with her husband, but it might be bad form to try and blame them. But, whoever you blame, I am sure that you will provide alot of amusement for the readers. Thank you in advance.

Gus

We are awaiting promising indications that 2010's author of the year candidate for L.W. stories, DQS, either has or very soon (3 days?) intends to post CH 05A of WWWM. Jen has already indicated fine writers such as Ohio, HDK, The Celt and D.G. Hear as having posted excellent stories worth reading. I'd like to add that some of K.K.'s stories, especially stories posted after 2004 are equally as good. I'd suggest "What Really happened in Vegas," "The Bachelorette Party," and "The fall and Rise of David Beckman." "The Stein" which I believe posted before 2004 is equally a fine story.

You are absolutely correct. Here cometh SHOE with the sane old worn out and disproved "BULL SHIT" once again.

But I'm smarter than the average bear.

It is not HDK, i read his all stories, major part of his stories is Humor, and I can tell by reading that it is HDK or not he has his own style, which is defintly not this, none of his male character ever had artificial personality, like Bill. And is also not thecelt , his main concern in story was story itself, not character development, there were development in characters but that was never the main concerns, if he had stretched the story so long it would have been because of story is long, but what we here see is short story, hanging for end (only) on the whim of character development.

Jenny: Good points. If I may join in I'd like to point out that 1) In every cheating wife story but this one it seems when the wife is 'cheating,' she is screwing someone other than her husband. 2) 'Debbie rubbing up against men' doesn't come from the story, it's the other way around. Again in the vast majority of occurances it's the man who is doing the rubbing. At times women allow it and even encourage it but according to a reliable eye witness, Bill's secretary, Cheryl, Debbie was very good at defusing incidents of improper behavior without causing a big scene. Cheryl went so far as to say that 'hot' women like Debbie had to learn to defuse these incidents or carry a cattle prod to fend the men off. 3) In the story Debbie admits to fantasizing about Doug while she shaved her pussy. That's entirely different form shaving her pussy FOR Doug. Some would argue that there is no difference but if there was no difference, why not tell it like it is instead of 'slanting the news'? If she was shaving it FOR Doug, the implication is Doug gets some benefit or she intends for Doug to get some benefit from her pussy being bald. Debbie stated or DQS revealed her thoughts that indicate there was NO intent for Doug to get any benefit before she divorced Bill.

First of all you have to agree on what actually constitutes cheating. Is it the dancing and rubbing her body against other men, is it the e-mails and shaving her pussy for Doug, or does it have to be actual intercourse? <P>

Having decided that, the rest is easy. Just read the story. I try not to get more out of the story than the author put in. Don't read between the lines.

Who cares if we discuss this story and what happens?

I would be willing to make a wager, that if we ever figure out when Debbie started cheating, and agreed on the time, "WE COULD FIND A PATH TO MIDEAST PEACE".

I just about forget, and then you remind me

You're not just another pretty face.

Quick wit, sharp tongue. I bet you can just look at hubby sometimes, and he just walks away.

Just humor Jen, funny, ha-ha

I couldn't help myself it was too good to pass up. Anyway I've been in a fighting mood today. <P>

John, you want to field this one? Or shall I take it since I'm here. It's not HDK. We have corresponded during the course of WWWM. He has shared his thoughts on same with me. No way it could be him. Although he is one of the the top authors on Lit. <P>

I honestly don't think it is TheCelt either, although I haven't talked to Jim in years. He also is one of the best. <P>

Nope, it's all Q and he is damn good. Hey I'm still kissing ass for that one comment.

Am I the only one to notice HDK has not posted any stories since DQS1 started posting wwwm ? I wonder if HDK is posting stories under another name ? HDK or thecelt are the only two I know who could write this !!!!!

Well Mousse9 it only took you five days to realize the point Carlos was trying to make with Vietvet and Size14 shoe on September second. <P>

I quote your response to that comment "One last thing, which would probably spark another argument; CarlosC, if the comments section of a story is not the place to discuss the story, where else CAN it be discussed?

Your comment to Vietvet and Size sounds like "Shut up, I don't want to hear you two." <P>

Shoe is just baiting you guys and damn if someone doesn't fall for it every time. I only wonder who will be next?

If nobody feeds him, he just might go away. I doubt it though.

...........................My hunch was right. I'm arguing with a troll. size will have to bait someone else to incite a flamewar with. I'm already sorry I wasted the time and energy.

I notice that you have read and re-read and will probably re-read DQS story over and over again. You constantly pick apart his story you actually put yourself into the story you put your values into the story and you are very good at defending those values.

But i don't know if you missed a very important piece of information. The story is NOT REAL the characters are NOT REAL. The writer made them up, and yet you constantly interject your ideas and shove them down anyones throat that disagrees with you?

Maybe you should let DQS write the story. Let him write about if Debbie cheated or not or if Bill cheated or not. WHO CARES?

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter, this story will not change goverments it won't win the noble prize for peace. So why not sit back put your slippers on smoke a tabaco pipe and relax. Enjoy the story for what it is, not what you THINK it is.

And for Petes sake STOP shooting down everyones opinion just because you don't agree with it.

What story have I been reading? Depends. What story are you reading? The story written by DQS or the story written by all the people who assume shit and think that LOOKS like she would be a hot fuck, she is a slut and a whore. A woman who has been 100% faithful to her husband before he moved out and 100% faithful to her lover after her husband moved out, is NOT a slut and a whore? Did you read what his friend Lew said? Do you think he would have used that incident in Chicago IF all Bill did was flirt? This is the kind of logic that has been bantied about condemning DEbbie. How do you like it?

size, you have been endlessly going on that without any physical evidence, without the physical act, Debbie is not cheating. That we are condemning her too quickly. Here I see you do exactly the very same thing to Bill, I point that out, and you tell me I'm a hypocrite? Stop applying double standards, size.

Without physical proof of Bill cheating, without that woman coming forward saying she's slept with Bill, without Bill admitting he had sex with that woman, what he has done might very well be completely innocent, a peck on the cheek for example. Juuuuust like you do with Debbie. Stop applying double standards, size.

I do like the fact that the situations are now reversed, regarding our positions. "Can I be size for a moment indeed". How does it feel, size? That you base your entire hypothesis on a single paragraph made by Lew, and that it all can be dismissed BY YOUR OWN WORDS that you use to defend Debbie?

"I'm convinced. You have written extensively that sex isn't required for there to be cheating. Again, is it only cheating when it's female? Explaining that would be worth the 30 minutes you spend on an essay. Go for it!!"

I'm convinced. You have written extensively that emotional cheating isn't cheating. Again, is it only cheating when it's male and there's no proof, but it isn't cheating when it's female WITH proof? Explaining that double standard would be worth the laugh I get. Go for it!!

To the other readers, who are pretty sick of all this I'm sure (but it's kinda hard to respond when there's no other place to respond). Have you ever noticed that size never actually responds to the stuff in my comments? Just pick and choose? And the one he did choose is the part where I showed size's double standard, by applying it to Bill, and ofcourse, size picked up on that.

For example, he says that women intuitively know when their guy is cheating, and viceversa. Later on he says that only a cheater would think their spouse is cheating just like that. They're contradictory. Which one is true? I called out size on that, and no answer. The same goes for the rest of my response to his comment. I find that very telling.

When I apply size's words for defending Bill, the same stuff he says to defend Debbie, he gets angry about it. The shoe (sorry for the pun) is now on the other foot and he doesn't like it.

Are you reading the same story I am, Size14Shoe?

"Maybe Bill only flirted. Flirting isn't cheating, like you said, size."

Excuse me? You have a brief goodnight kiss be a hot lover's kiss with lots of tongue but maybe Bill was only flirting? What's the difference? Bill is male?

*

I'm convinced. You have written extensively that sex isn't required for there to be cheating. Again, is it only cheating when it's female? Explaining that would be worth the 30 minutes you spend on an essay. Go for it!!

Ahaha! Sorry guys, I just cannot resist. I just HAVE to reply. It's much more fun to reply when I'm not so worked up over comments anymore. Here goes.

"Mutual Assured Destruction, Mr. Assistant State Attorney. You narc on me and I tell the beautiful Debbie about that District Attorney from, where was it, Oakland, that you were playing with at that conference two years ago in Chicago. You know, the one who could tie two cherry stems together with her tongue?"

Can I be size for a moment and use his arguments? OK. Lew said that, but is that proof of cheating? Maybe Bill only flirted. Flirting isn't cheating, like you said, size. Maybe that woman only showed Bill that she can tie two cherry stems together with her tongue, and Lew jokingly ribbed him about it. No wife wants to hear that her husband has spent time with another woman, whether it's lunch, just chatting or anything. It doesn't immediately have to jump to sex. You are so quick to condemn without proof, size! You're making Bill out to be a player when he isn't! Tsk tsk.

"How quickly the morals police here threw Debbie under the bus for emotionally "cheating." but not one comment about Bill's cheating."

Continuing with the above, if flirting is cheating, Debbie cheated a hundred times over. Like you do with Debbie, Bill is innocent until proven guilty.

"His cheating likely killed Debbie's love for Bill. She didn't have his email to read but women intuitively know when their man cheats just like men know when their wives are cheating. Men hire PI's for evidence they need for divorce but they know without it."

Since this is not proven, it's just a wild guess. Don't make Bill into a player when he isn't. It's pretty certain that Debbie's continuing wild ways killed Bill's love for her.

"Ever wonder why Bill didn't hire a PI to get evidence for Debbie's cheating? Here's why: there was no evidence. Bill never had a reason to suspect Debbie because she wasn't cheating on him and he knew it."

He didn't hire a PI to get evidence because he was too trusting of Debbie. It literally never crossed his mind that she could cheat, so why would he even think of hiring a PI?

Lew's words:

"He trusted you, Debbie: shows you what an idiot he was. It was an automatic monitoring system. He'd never ever looked at your emails. Until that weekend you stayed out all night and he eventually found out you'd gone to your parents. He was alone all that weekend and he'd gotten suspicious and he started poking around. That's what investigators do."

Debbie never contests any of this, in fact she gets so sick at the realization that she throws up in the toilet.

"Even after he read the emails he know she wasn't cheating on him. He knew she was through with his cheating ass but she had not cheated as yet. The best he could do was accuse her of emotional cheating."

She wasn't cheating on him PHYSICALLY, but emotionally. And the emails themselves were the evidence. He didn't have to investigate, he was READING the evidence. That in itself is cheating. He accused her of emotional cheating. The point is, is it true? Given the emails? You keep saying he accuses her, he accuses her, but never do you say whether he was right or not. But since you put "cheating" inbetween quotation marks when you mention emotional cheating, that means you don't think emotional cheating is cheating at all. No wonder you never replied to any of my questions about emotional cheating. It's not cheating to you! Good that that's clarified.

"Could it be that Bill's cheating is the source of Debbie's rage. She gave up 20 years of her life for Bill while he showed his love and loyalty by cheating on her."

Again, unfounded, based on a statement by Lew and isn't elaborated on. For all we know, Bill could've just said Hi to that woman and had lunch with her. You're so quick to condemn Bill, size!

Didn't the last chapter show that the source of Debbie's rage (which Debbie herself admits doesn't know where it comes from) was that repressed rape? Read the story, size.

You know how Debbie shows her love and loyalty? By Debbie's own admission she's flirted with, and let herself be groped by other men for 20 years, while Bill is known as the Ice Man to other women. She didn't give everything, and Bill clearly did.

"Bill sexually evaluates every female he comes in contact with but Debbie's the slut. Only a cheater himself would have thought Debbie was cheating based on what she said in the bedroom scene at the beginning of chapter 1."

Didn't Bill start that when AFTER the big blowup? There's plenty of evidence to suggest that he never even looked at other women. Bill himself wonders when he started doing that, and that is AFTER the big blowup. The nickname the Ice Man is very telling, don't you think? And you JUST said that we all fantasize. So is that cheating? Looking at other women? Didn't you just say it was not cheating?

Bill may look (remember, that's after the big blowup), but Debbie flirts and lets herself be groped DURING their marriage. Did Bill flirt with other women, and try to grope them? No, hence the Ice Man nickname.

Stop using double standards, size.

Only a cheater himself would have thought Debbie was cheating? Here, let me have you argue with yourself:

"women intuitively know when their man cheats just like men know when their wives are cheating. Men hire PI's for evidence they need for divorce but they know without it."

"Don't think cutting her off from his love and cheating on her doesn't hurt."

Don't think that flirting with other men and letting them grope her, knowing Bill does not like nor approve of it, for their entire marriage, doesn't hurt Bill.

When Bill called Lew about representing him, Lew says:

*

"Mutual Assured Destruction, Mr. Assistant State Attorney. You narc on me and I tell the beautiful Debbie about that District Attorney from, where was it, Oakland, that you were playing with at that conference two years ago in Chicago. You know, the one who could tie two cherry stems together with her tongue?"

*

How quickly the morals police here threw Debbie under the bus for emotionally "cheating." but not one comment about Bill's cheating.

*

His cheating likely killed Debbie's love for Bill. She didn't have his email to read but women intuitively know when their man cheats just like men know when their wives are cheating. Men hire PI's for evidence they need for divorce but they know without it. *

*

Ever wonder why Bill didn't hire a PI to get evidence for Debbie's cheating? Here's why: there was no evidence. Bill never had a reason to suspect Debbie because she wasn't cheating on him and he knew it. Even after he read the emails he know she wasn't cheating on him. He knew she was through with his cheating ass but she had not cheated as yet. The best he could do was accuse her of emotional cheating.

*

Could it be that Bill's cheating is the source of Debbie's rage. She gave up 20 years of her life for Bill while he showed his love and loyalty by cheating on her. Many say Bill should not take Debbie back because she flirted.

*

Debbie admittedly likes to flirt but is that cheating? She used a vibrator and fantasized about men when Bill "wasn't up to having sex with her." Is this cheating? She even shaved her pussy fantasizing about Doug for the same reason. Is this cheating? If fantasizing is cheating, we are all cheating. Who hasn't fantasized about another man or woman?

*

Bill sexually evaluates every female he comes in contact with but Debbie's the slut. Only a cheater himself would have thought Debbie was cheating based on what she said in the bedroom scene at the beginning of chapter 1.

*

Debbie screwed one man for 20 years until Bill accused her of cheating, moved out and got an apartment. Then she screwed only one man for the 4 months after Bill moves out. Bill cut her off from love and love making claiming he had to "work" late every night. But going out with a group, flirting, dancing and occasionaly being groped by men who have had too much to drink, this makes her a slut and whore? Bullshit.

*

Many, many have ripped Debbie for intentionally hurting Bill after they separated. Don't think cutting her off from his love and cheating on her doesn't hurt.

Third, I'll probably post a 30,000 word novelette or novella in the next few days, although it will be three more days before it appears on site. It's got some characters in common with WWWM, and it is set in the same Northeast Florida area and the 2006-2008 time frame, but it really has nothing to do with WWWM.

I wonder which character from WWWM is going to be in the next story. Will this be out before the next chapter of WWWM.

I was hoping the novel he's working on will give clues as to Bill and Debbie future relationships.

Debbie had bedded several guys since her divorce, Bill has just started dating game, he is getting many offeres, but he was taking it very carefully, he just did not want any meaningless casual relationship. Once she rejected a girl, saying "I am not Interested in any woman, just for sex, or she is beautiful, or she THINK she loves me, I made that mistake years ago and wasted my so many years loving her and proving that I was worthy for her, I am not going to again" or something like that, Somehow Bill''s attitude spreads, among people and it finally reaches to Debbie, who also missing Bill, watching him dating many beautiful woman, but she was happy that he never went too long with anyone, she thought it was woman who did not want to continue with him, but as words spread it was clear he was the one who, rejected them, and somehow it pleased her that he might still love her, With time passed, Somehow blah blah blah.....She realized she wanted to be with Bill, she approached him, told him that she wanted give their marriage another shot.

"No"

"What do you mean No"

"I said we are not getting back together"

"But I wanted to give it another try"

"Ok! let me make it clear, No, we dont have a chance, and we cant go back together"

"But I love you, I want to be with you"

"Ok, just stop this crap, and if dont have anything important to say , i will ask you to leave,"

"What! but...Ithought you loved me?"

"Yeap, you are right"

"Then why dont you want to ...?"

"Ok, you are forcing me, You said it all by your self, "WHEN WE WERE IN LOVE" like once you said "WHEN WE WERE MARRIED" I loved you, even after that still loved you"

"But then what is it..."

"You not listeing Debbie. When we WERE in love, I WAS in love with you, that is past Debbie, you are professor Debbie, use some common sense."

"How could you not... I was right You never loved me"

"Say what ever please you Debbie, I already wasted my 20 years for you not anymore, I always thought you loved me..."

"But I love you bastard, how can you say that?"

"Ok, one more loud word from your mouth and you will be escorted out of here by guard, Do you want to leave now or you want me to.."

"Please Bill, I want to be with you, You must consder this, We can have what we had before, And I always loved you, you are wrong about that"

"As i said Debbie I tooo think you loved me, but unciously in my mind I always knew the truth, that is why I worked hard , I thought i could not match upto you this way i chose another, always making myself worthy for you, reassuring you that you did right thing by choosing me, but foolish me...never imagined dreams are just dreams... I always thought of you as superior to me ..but.."

"But what Bill...? Now you dont tink I am superior to you? You thin of as a slut? "

"No Debbie, thats not what I wanted to say, but ..ok,, Now I know that I am also the person, a woman can truly LOVE, which I never relaised when i was with you"

But I loved you Bill, why cant you believe that?"

"No Debbie,, you not, you were with me because I faught for you, like a hero, you felt you need to give me something in return, And yes gave me, Bj and Kelly, and that is all you truly gave me as a gift to save you, and yes some years of illusion of dream world that you loved me. "

"But.."

"Nothing is there Debbie, nothing is left, I met someone who made me feel I also very capable of winning heart of woman, only by myself, not because I saved her, I made me realise that i also good in bed, I might not be able to compete, stud you are used to having, or you left me for, Why debbie why you gave me curse instead of gift for saviing you? you wasted my twenty years, I could havve spend that many years with a woman who really loved me, What did i do wrong Debbie, why so big punishment, debbie, Just because I saved you, because I have small cock, because, I am not as attractive as your other boyfriends, because i was trying to be nice to you, I wanted to be good person? Why?"

"Bill, no matter what you think I really..."

"Just stop is Debbie...Just drop it and leave, everytime I see you, i see betrayal..."

"Bill...I ...wanted"

"Just Leave you bitch , cant you hear me, Its alwyas what you wanted, you wanted to marry me, wnated to fall out of love with me, wanted to divorce me,wanted to fcuk other men in our bed, no you want to be wuth me, just get the hell out of here, or I will call security.."

She started crying and left, One month lated Bill married a woman he had been dating for foour months out of town, this time he was quite sure she loved him for who he was. Debbie got many lovers afer that, but never a man to be her husband, Decent man who knew how she ended her marriage with bill , never came near her, to start with, pussyhounds always were around her, she seen many time in bars with some young guys, she became popular as a experienced woman in town, who can train virging boys, and married man would fuck her, when they are seperated from their wife, only to realize they have much better woman at home than this slut. She also becaome mistress of many rich men in mean while, only to be dumped for younger one, which made her realise looks are not forever, she stopped dating so may times, to find reall partener, but as the time was passing, she was becomeng less beautiful, and less passionalte, more depressed, soon she could only have teen boys to take thier virginity. Bj stopped talking to her, kelly never started. Bill was living happily, with her new wife, he he made it clear with her that if she ever fell out of love she should tell him first, beofre, so that he can try his best, before letting her go, and they could seperate as friends, but that never happened, because she really loved him, they had one boy together now, Bill give his all time to his family, he is know celeberity, and Debbie is known as his ex, thats all every one know,. Life goes on.

Guess who is this woman bill is now with? because that is only suspense here, remainin story will move here nd there and finally will be here, she fucked him, him, him, and so many...she had that dream, she now remembered, she was depressed...all that crap goes on like i said life goes on....

This story is so damn good, it's addictive! DQS1: I think you'll find the reason why everyone is getting so grumpy about the wait in between chapters is because we are suffering WWWM withdrawal symptoms.

Keep up the wonderful writing.

*Buries the hatchet*

And now we wait for DQS to write the next installment.

..........Argh, LOL.

Believe me, I am trying to mend my attitudes and get my emotions under contro. Thanks for the advice.

Sarcasm isn't going to help you any. If you're gonna attack me like you did with DQS (see your "asshole" comment), I will do the same. Seems like DQS is too nice for that, but I'm not.

I'd prefer it if she got over him by just leaving him, instead of scarring him further. I TAKE IT YOU DO NOT LIKE IT WHEN I POINT OUT THE PAIN A CHARACTER'S ACTONS CAUSES, RIGHT?

When I say happy ending, I mean that people who hurt others do not go unpunished for that. If the genders were reversed, I'd still say the same thing. Gender does not come into the equation. If a guy cheated and got away with it in the story, my comment would still be to burn him at the stake.

Man, virtually every comment you've made was either in a rage, or insulting. Anger management, dude. Try to post a comment without calling people assholes or venting your rage.

Oh, there is no mistake, mousse9, I read your essay. Caroline either did not sleep overnight with Dan oe she thought she was his GIRL IN SHINING AMOR WHO WOULD CHANGE HIM. I TAKE IT THAT YOU DO NOT LIKE IT WHEN WOMEN GET OVER ON MEN, RIGHT? When you say happy ending you mem the male character gets his way, right?

Subbing Mona for Caroline (the second wife, Holly was the first wife) was indeed my fault. I've just posted an edited version where the names are correct. (There is one question however. Edited versions are submitted by putting the word EDITED after the title. My title is apparently so long that EDITED does not fit behind it. I've worked around that by taking out part of the title. Now I hope a second version will replace the old one, instead of showing up as a new one.)

I've already stated why I had inadvertently blocked comments, that has been rectified.

Cal, the crucial facts, as you say, are they reason enough for the year long affair? Have you ever heard of disproportionate retribution? You step on my foot, I shoot you in the head?

Why did Mona not have a big screaming match with Lew? Throw plates? Throw his clothes on the lawn and turn the sprinklers on? Instead she has an affair with Lew's partner, and rubs his nose in it when he finds out. Hardly a good start to make him love her again.

Also, did you READ The Dream Wife? (It's not Dream Girl.) Not just that, did you actually read my essay? I'll repeat what I said in my essay (sans name mistakes).

Caroline fucked another guy, knowing that it would be the one thing to hurt Dan the most. That comes from someone who supposedly loves you.

Second, Dan had NIGHTMARES about Holly. He was TRAUMATIZED. They weren't wet dreams! These weren't loveydovey "I want you back Holly!" dreams! Did you read the comparison to rape I put in (which was made by another commenter)? Or did you skim that?

This isn't wanting to play second fiddle, this is utterly destroying a human being. She might as well have killed him and get it over with.

You're my teacher? Wow, never knew that. As YOUR teacher, I give your teaching a D. Constructive when it comes to mistakes (and I AM grateful for that, it is a pretty big mistake), but you do not seem to have actually read through my essay, merely skimmed it without understanding the thoughts behind it.

Did I insist that DQS write conforming to my beliefs? Did I, in any comment or in my essay, say to DQS that he HAD to write a happy ending, burn a character at the stake, or anything like that? I have merely made an observation about his storyworld, and the characteristics of his storyworld are ones that I personally do not like. Don't put words into my mouth.

I had completely forgotten about disabling comments and all that stuff. I had done that when I first became a member, and I never thought I'd actually post stuff. It has been changed now.

You two are being sensible and civil?

Now the party IS over!!

DQS I know I said don't rush for us, but...........we've got nothin now.

Fantastic explanation PK. Made me think....about me.

You blocked comments on your essay, WHY? Can't take criticism or think you have all of the answers?

Your essay DQS1's previous studies really does reads like you “whipped up this essay in about half an hour.” You substituted characters from different stories –Mona for Holly. You omit crucial facts, like why did Mona initiate the affair with Norm? It was in part the result of Lew’s indifference to Mona after it was determined that she was infertile. Mona became a non-entity to Lew, and she struck back. Why did you make Caroline the worse offender in Dream Girl. Why should she have to play second fiddle to a FUCKING GHOST, WHO Dan seem to love more than her.

As your teacher, I have no choice but to give you a ‘D.” Like you, I really prefer stories with good endings, but I do not see it as my duty to insist others write to confirm or validate my beliefs or values.

And I always thought SOL was Shit Outta Luck

I just can't help myself.

All so contrite. Heads down. Apologetic to each other. Shuffling our feet.

Quite in here. Peaceful. Ahhh.......Gentle breeze, Pretty moon tonight. Crickets singing. My kids asleep. Ahhhh.

C'mon folks vietvet is workin here!! He's tryin humor. (and the last one was funny)

Tom, if I can call you that? My Dad still tells me to this day, along with anyone else that he can get to listen....."Open your ears instead of your mouth. You just might learn something". Kind of along the same lines??

No hidden meaning directed at anyone. Just acknowledging the wisdom in older adults as we go along......

Now maybe the waitresses will like some of us better. That's meant as a funny you know who.

A great trilogy on the "WAR OF NORTHERN AGRESSION".

cpete: My English teacher when I was in the seventh grade once made the statement, "if you don't know something and don't want appear unintelligent by asking a question, just wait and someone else will invariably ask it for you".

Thanks for saving me on the question about SOL.

LOL: Tom

Cpete - http://storiesonline.net/home.php

Cal6009 – Thank you, much appreciated. I also have been wound up with this story and had to force myself to stay away from personal attacks by another member of this site. You have much to offer as a commenter and I look forward to your future views.

Whilst I'm at it I also need to apologize to Harry - I have on occasion taken exception to his outspoken views (not the tenor but the manner in which his comments were phrased) but I really do respect his opinion, especially since he has often stated his unconcern about the length of this story.

SEveral commenters have posted about a site SOL-What is it-what does SOL stand for?-web site?

Dear Authors (DQS!,HDK, etc.) and Readers(curiousss, JennyBear, etc): Thank you for your words of caution and reminder that WWWM is DQS!’s story to do with as he/she( has this been settled?) leases, whenever he/she pleases. I have invested more attention to WWWM than I have to any other story I have read on this site, which has resulted in a high degree of emotional attachment. DQS1's earlier explanation of the delay did not ring true, which provoke the ASSHOLE descriptor. While I really do understand why DQS1 chose not to respond to other aspects of my explanation as to why the delay occurred, I accept his subsequent clarification. I am a hot tempered Southerner in the grand tradition of Shelby Foote, and this is as close to an apology as you are going to get.

Daniel, <P>

Thank you for the personal note. I’m going to respond in this public forum because this is where I went off on my little tirade against you. Your note was very gracious considering what I wrote. I apologize and have no intention of leaving WWWM. <P>

I have made several friends on Lit and regard you as one of them. Carlos is another; we have had several discussions lately about what we felt about WWWM. Unlike some of your readers we do it directly and not bore everyone else with it. <P>

HDK was right again, as usual. There has never been this level of interaction on the comments board of any other story on Lit. I think by you breeching the fourth wall, some of us thought we had partial ownership in your story. You had to wrestle it back from us and you did so with your public statement. <P>

Well Done! <P>

Jennybear <P>

PS: The name of your last story is "The Last Goodbye" not the "The Last Call"

The kid gloves didn't stay on too long.

H: "for the most part I agree with almost eveything you say about Debbie. IF she has been with 10...15...20 different men by the time she is 20... sure she has developed a warped view of the world."

*

Me: Debbie had been raped (that's what it is when an adult fucks a minor) by about 20 men before she was 15 -- but who's counting?

*

H: "so on THAT point we agree. "

BUT when you say " I say she deserves something besides every male she runs into trying to fuck her..."

that is FALSE. And it shows all of us how fucked up your thought process is Phil.

*

Me: Oh, so you think she deserves every male trying to fuck her. Men are groping her and rubbing their hard cocks against her while she's out "whoring and slutting around" every night. That's what is being said about her, not my thought process.

*

Harry: "This is a women that came onto Bill's attorney at the first divorce meeting... SOLELY because Debbie thought it would be " fun" to do so."

*

Me: First i agree that it was in poor taste to do what she did, however, she did it in private.

*

Me: Second, Lew wasn't just Bill's attorney, he was a friend who, along with his wife Mona, were friends of her and Bill.

*

Me: Third, you claim she did it "SOLELY because Debbie thought it would be " fun" to do so." That conflicts with her and her lawyer talking about Debbie doing it to influence Lew -- using her sexuality to get the meeting to go her way -- which BTW I don't think is appropriate behavior.

*

Me: Fourth I don't understand how this is relates to my saying "she deserves something besides every male she runs into trying to fuck her..." since the inference is that this occurs on her nights out.

*

H: Debbie has SOME responsibility to Break the cycle here... no?

*

Me: It did happen at her office building about the time she was fired. She put that bastard down, so you see she is breaking the cycle, don't you think? She also sent Doug packing.

*

H: if she stops thinking that EVERY man who see her the 1st time wants to fuck... then maybe she will run into some men that dont always want to fuck her as soon as they see her...

*

Me: You mean like the guy running the Public Defender's Office? The one who is afraid to hire her because of the trouble she will cause when the men in his office try to fuck her, Bill will get pissed off?

*

If you tried even a little to see what my point is, Harry, maybe you wouldn't make such a fool of yourself when you try to rebut my remarks. Perhaps you should just stick to insults and name calling -- something you are good at.