All Comments on 'A Little Interlude'

Once again, a story in a totally different mode than you've written before. An intervention of sorts, I guess. Whatever, it's just a very interesting story, bringing up all kinds of questions.

Is she telling him everything? Is he overreacting? Is there something wrong with her thinking? His? Will they get past it, or is she going to look at him with resent? Will he be able to trust her? Has she really had this change of heart? It's just an extended flash story, and all the questions are left hanging, as if you sliced a chunk out of their lives and put it out there. But that's what you intended to do, isn't it? The writing is as smooth as silk and the dialogue just flows. You are a tremendous writer, that's all I can say.

That makes it exciting. He just drops these little gems. Not a wasted word, everything perfectly drawn out and plotted to say the most with the fewest amount of carefully chosen words. It may be some funny as hell satire, it may be so incandescent sex, maybe a Gothic horror story, or now this. Thought provoking. You are a word-crafter. Five stars, of course.

This is. It's what I've come to expect from WDMC. Pure writing talent. It's not a birth to death thing, just a slice out of the life of two people. This is what flash is supposed to be. No, "we met in college," back story crap. Just hard-hitting, straight to the point and gritty. Top score.

If everyone was as upfront about their innermost feelings and desires , then the world would be a much better place .

To have a relationship like Dex and Kat ( even though she pushed it right up to its breaking point ) would be Nirvana. Unfortunately , it seems the world and most of its inhabitants are not cut from that cloth . Sadly .

I enjoyed this alot , seems to be a reoccurring them with WDMC stories .

5 *'s

The husband is far calmer than almost anyone would be. The old adage, "If you love them set them free" doesn't work here. I wonder what the fallout from this will be. I suspect the wife might fall into her "experiment" and then live a life of regret. People just tend to do dumb stuff. Very nice telling of a marriage pivot point.

Why is it, that a wife comes to the marriage bed a Virgin at Her choice YET decides to try others after the Vows have been made ? ?

Great tale. She had some bad influences and she was tempted. In the end she was convinced by her loving husband that what she had was way better than what she had to lose by cheating. Just a matter of thinking straight and listening to your own conscience, not to misleading friends. Oh, and by the way, I had a '76 Trans Am in my youth and I never lost. Never.

Five Stars

The author did a very good job on this story.

This story has such great context, well written, very creative, deep thoughts and it is so enjoyable to read all the way through.

Congrats to the author and please keep writing more stories like that.....I became your big fan.

Lovely,

KP

Man, what a good story.

So much said in so few words!

Loved the moral of the story

and how it was played out.

Thank you, writer, for a good one!

Top ratings from me.

This is the best story I've ever read in so long. So short and so amazing. It makes me feel so good. Because I've been cheated on by my first girlfriend , this story feels good to me. Thank you Author. Much love from me ❤ - Jack

But that is what I expect from you. "No way back" is a story that twists me up to this day. Your stories have unanswered questions that always leaves me hanging.

"Are you sure you want all that information?" Susan (? Can't remember her name at the moment) asked. Yes I do / no I don't. I don't believe I could live with either choice. I think I would have drifted a while but in the end it would have destroyed me...and us. I can't live like that. This so well written story evokes those same feelings in me. Don't know how well I'm going to sleep tonight. I guess that is to your credit as a writer. Again...5*s.

Very nice, but would like to see what happens "down the road".

Would have been nice to know exactly what the "reason" was for her change of mind. Was it for love of her family or for the fear of losing her family?

Is she truly committed to her marriage vows now, and if so, why? Or is she just playing her husband the fool until she can set up things up to fuck the loser fiance behind his back?

The phone GPS thing wouldn't work to keep track of her movements. All she has to do is leave the phone at her desk while she screws the guy during lunch.

Trust may not have been broken, but it sure as hell been bent.

Somehow I didn't find this quite as satisfying a story as some of his others, but it did pose an interesting situation and raise a couple of interesting questions.

First, I felt that the idea of honesty in Kat revealing her situation and the discussion between the couple was nicely explored in the story.

On the other hand, I felt that Kat was shown as beating herself up in expressing her thoughts and feelings to Dex. I was left wondering, if the story had been one where Dex had been the partner tempted by the outside influence, would the author have shown him that way?

To take that idea a little further, if the story had been written by a female author, would Kat have debased herself that way? Would a female author have allowed Dex to be so condescending as to say "You are a pretty smart cookie" under those circumstances?

Nonetheless, I enjoyed the story.

Lue

Good but needed more. 4

Words are cheap, did she follow through? I'm sure Dexter didn't roll over and play dead. What we're her thoughts? One could believe she made plans with her friend, then fucking her hubbys brains out to throw him off.

So what happened next???

Whatdreamsmaycome is actually blackrandl1958, writing under an alias.

Discuss.

had to sample an old boyfriend that was very good. A lot of writers have written stories with that theme that weren't very good. This was well done. As usual, I have trouble trying to understand the wife's point, simply because it seems so foreign. It's easier to imagine cheating than asking permission. Asking forgiveness is often easier! Well done, and I don't think the gender of the writer had much bearing on the story. Good job!

Dex is a real piece of work. Possessive, prudish, and a bully. Anybody who would treat his wife like that when she hasn't actually done anything deserves to get his ass burned. It won't happen, unfortunately, because all these comments are agreeing with this lowlife, and I would guess that they are the audience this is being written for. Grow up and realise that the human animal is not designed to be monogamous. 1*.

This is to anonymous why is Dexter an a****** the ex fiance is nothing but a pussy Hound, if you get married you agree to be monogamous exclusive whatever you want to call it, Dexter's right he doesn't own her but if you make you decisions that affects everybody in your family, then you have to deal with the consequences but from what I take from your little statement is that your a true liberal you want to consider yourself a animal then go live in a zoo

And you are a dumbass. I could give you a little piece of human evolutionary social evolution to show you why even though the human animal is not a monogamous species, it is not kosher basically all over the world for a woman or man to cheat or to inform your mate that you're planning on it. Very bad news for your health in a lot of countries. But this is not the forum for it. Just know this: you are a stupid individual, based on your comment.

Can't really fathom the mindset of Kat here.

Edgy reading though and I really liked how Dexter dismantled here scheme ruthlessly.

Would have enjoyed reading about the fallout or aftermath with the other players, namely, Derrick and Sarah.

Derrick? Is that you? You mad, bro?

Good assault of her "values" and a good discussion to get her to think again. My concern is if there is a part 2 I.E will she still fall. I wonder if he already has P.I's on her. Trust is hard to recover after stupidity like that, and I wonder if she is merely placating him or really means it? The counseling session ahead is gonna be interesting.

It is a recurrent theme with many variations and this author does excellent work.

There should be a part 2, to show one way or another if she stays committed to her family or not. The story is fine as it is though. 4 ****.

at least he realized that she could raise the exact same trust arguments against him and he couldn't defend himself any more than she could.

?????

@Anonymous Re: "Wow, what an asshole" - She hasn't done anything wrong? She hasn't told her husband that her old boyfriend is back in town, working for her company; she had lunch with him; he's asked her out and she didn't say no; she wants to have sex with him. You don't see anything wrong with that?

@user110 - Where do you see that? What has he said or done to make her not trust him?

It's interesting that she talks about "open marriages," but she never said anything about HIM having sex with another woman, not that he wants to. As he said, open marriages are decided or entered into with the agreement of both parties.

I don't see a need for Part 2. It's obvious to me that they're going to make it. I believe that she is sincere about her realization that she was wrong, not just saying what he wants to hear. Don't forget the counseling, both hers and the joint counseling. While he may not be able to enforce all of the conditions without a PI, which he wouldn't do, he would divorce her if he couldn't trust her; but just as he found out what she had already done, she could never be sure who might see her. Plus, knowing guys like Dexter, he won't be able to keep from harassing her, and she will prove herself by slapping him into next week and reporting him.

So many come here to a sex site and knowingly read fuck stories and then talk about morals, adultry,.wives that cheat, husband that cheat and we worry about what to do???Ever thought about just enjoying a sex story???

Where is it written that to have sex you have to have cuckoldry and/or accepted cheating?

Look at this author's "High Dive." Very sexy, no cuckolds or cheaters in sight!

I thought the male's character was well thought out. His reactions and dialogue were spot on. Her character, however, was written using every cliche' in the book. I would have like to see more anguish as she stayed up all night thinking over his words. I would have like to see her come around mentally to what she was putting her husband through.

I still thought it was well enough written for 4 stars.

"Why do you think something's wrong with me, Dexter?" Well, let's see.... Even THINKING about a relationship with the pussy hound who fucked her maid of honor before their (canceled) wedding should set off LOUD alarms! And the BS she's spouting about "open marriage" is completely off the wall. Oh, and don't forget the deception of meeting with the guy without discussing his recent appearance at work with Dex first.

We'll just have to guess whether or not her overnight epiphany truly showed her the light....

Another fine 5* tale, thanks!

"What guarantees does he have that she won't try something like this later on?" - What guarantees do ANY of us have in life? I'm sure Dex felt that he had a guarantee that something like this would NEVER happen, yet it did.

Anyone Listening to a Woman Living alone with No Family and No Real Friends is Looking for a Room Mate to make them Feel Less Lonely.

Just a little too elementary on his dialog and just a little bit too much stupidity on her part, but all in all not really that bad when it comes to writing.

There may be reconciliation here but at this point the seeds of mistrust have been sown. I, for one, don't think that fidelity is an intellectual exercise and the betrayal can be fixed logically. Obviously there were already significant tears in the relationship and Kat really needs to address her foundational assumptions about (and commitments to) life and relationships. Hope that works for them. Dex needs to do some work too but most of all, they need to work together and not in the bedroom.

Well written piece from one of my favorite authors. Dialog flowed and told the tale. Thanks and kudos to whatdreamsmaycome.

A few commenters have raised the question of whether Dex can trust Kat from here on to not do things he would prefer she didn't do.

Is somebody who has been honest about having been tempted more trustworthy than somebody who doesn't tell her partner of the turmoil in her mind?

After all, Kat was the honest one, not Dex. Dex knew of the lunch date but hid his knowledge from her. Who is the trustworthy one?

So many questions.

Lue

The talent of this author is not to be dismissed or taken life but the actual spot for the story is hard to figure. The REAL Problem has to do with the wife ...

WHY would she listen to people who have not been able to keep a marriage successful and functional?

Why you having this sexual fantasy how about a guy who destroy her screwing her maid of honor right before the wedding???? Think about that. That's not a typical cheating type of scenario especially for a woman. Cheating with one of your bridesmaids or the maid of honor hours or days before the wedding is really quite extraordinary.....

Even worse was the fact the wife is taking all these actions of meeting the ex fiancee Lied about it... THEN actually expected her husband too okay very quest fuck another man...???

And husband reaction when she apparently has a come-to-jesus moment at the end of the story when she realizes what she has done wrong is way too simplistic.

Was Dex setting her up, waiting to see what she did? I am very much like him, in a way. If he tells her she's busted and she has the change of heart, it doesn't mean a damn thing. She just got caught and would say anything. By coming to him on her own and outing herself, that means something. She sounded him out and got his feelings and thoughts.

Is everything fixed? Obviously not, but both of them seem to care enough to work on it. Great short, and I'd like to see a part 2, but this can stand alone. Great writer.

Oh, that old chestnut. Why is it that the husbands in these stories never say the obvious, "So? You had your chance before we got married."?

<P>

That's also a big switch in her attitude. It started with her expressing some interest to "I'm planning on doing it and I expect you to love me enough to let me do it." Again, the husband never -- or at least rarely -- responds with the obvious, "I you love me you wouldn't even consider doing this."

@luedon Re: "The question of trust" - I try not to get involved with you, but I couldn't let this one slide by. His not telling her what he knew wasn't him being untrustworthy, it was him allowing HER to prove herself worthy of HIS trust by not hiding things from him. SHE'S the one who didn't tell him that Derrick was back and working for her company, who didn't tell him that she had lunch with him, who didn't tell him that he invited her out, who didn't exactly give a strong refusal, and is only telling him now because she wants his permission to FUCK Derrick. If she was the "HONEST" one, she would have told him as soon as she knew Derrick was back, certainly before she decided to have ANYTHING to do with him!

@Anonymous 08/04/17 Re: "Trust. It's a thorny problem" - Yes, he was sort of setting her up, and she DID pass that part of the test, by telling him things that she didn't know that he knew. As you say, everything is obviously not fixed, but the previous Anon is wrong calling this "a trainwreck looking for a place to happen." They are going to be getting counseling, and Dex, who knows her and their relationship far better than we, feels reasonably confident, and that is good enough for me!

the rot has set in though, she really is no better than the lowlife thats trying to spit up a family unit just to scratch an itch, the disrespect and lack of love she is displaying has already badly damaged them. l hope there's a part 2? i vote for a truly awfull series of betrayals and a good btb to finish off.

Why should he be under any obligation to tell her what he knows? So she knows she's been caught with her hand in the cookie jar? Please.

Here's a question for you: Does a confession really mean anything when it's only given because the confessor has no other options? That question is at the center of all these stories where the husbands choose to wait it out and see how their wives handle things. Because regardless of how far someone has traveled down the road of infidelity, making the conscious decision to come clean shows a hell of a lot more character than doing it only because you got caught and need to run damage control.

If a cheater ends an affair and/or confesses to their spouse only because they got caught, there's always the very high chance that the only lesson they'll take away from it is "Don't get caught". Personally, I'm of the opinion that those kinds of people should be cut loose. They're the ones most likely to do it again, and I, for one, don't fancy they idea of spending the rest of the relationship on the lookout for good ol' Damocles and his sword.

But the ones who acknowledge that they've done wrong and make the choice to stop and come clean of their own accord? There's still hope for them. They regret what they did, period, as opposed to just regretting how it turned out. They'll still have to earn their second chance, but at least they've proven that they're worth giving them the opportunity to do so.

WDMC's stories are so cleverly crafted they almost always get an interesting discussion going.

Here both Kat and Dex had a secret. Kat made the first move towards honesty when she contemplated doing something that was more extreme than what she had kept secret to date. (Of course, she shouldn't have kept the lunch date secret at all, but she did.)

Dex only revealed his secret in response to her request for his permission to take that next extreme step. If he valued honesty he would have said something the evening after he discovered her lunch date. eg; "Penny told me she saw you today having lunch with your ex-boyfriend." That could have led to a much more productive and less accusative conversation than the one they had in WMDC's story.

But then the story wouldn't have been as interesting.

Lue

@luedon, every time I think I'm OUT, you pull me back in! SHE's the one that owed him the honesty to tell him about Derrick. The fact that she didn't aroused his suspicions to the point that he COULDN'T tell her that he knew, SHE had to come clean on her own, not because she was caught.

One of my old bitches! "My questions would be answered" - So WHAT? There are only three possible answers: Sex with Derrick is worse than with Dex; It's about the same; or it's better. If it's no better, you've either cheated on or jeopardized your marriage for nothing. If it IS better, now what? You say you don't want a divorce, so you're going to live with lesser sex? Wouldn't it be better not to know? Wouldn't you grow to resent your marriage for keeping you from that great sex?

Fidelity is NOT an "intellectual" issue???

Interesting. You really think "fidelity" is a "nature" kind of emotion like sexual lust is?

Some of us have "fidelity" genes while others don't? Maybe we should all get a DNA profile of the one we love in order to make sure they have that proper gene...which one(s) is it, again?

I don't blame you for thinking this - it is all part of modern secular humanist liberal thinking that all normal (biologically speaking) humans ARE basically "moral and good" - we are all just born that way. Despite all the very real historical, psychological, anthropological, and otherwise scientific evidence that humans are NOT basically "morally good". Period. Humans have to be taught and learn morality. And many different moralities HAVE been taught to different groups of humans throughout history.

Long lasting "love" including Romantic sexual "in love" feelings generally do not remain at the same level for both partners as time passes. The pleasure "law of diminishing returns" is in effect for naturally produced dopamine, PEA, oxytocin, serotonin, adrenaline, and other "love drugs" just as much as it is for heroin and all the other unnatural "feel good" drugs. It's a Catch-22 that means the initial fantastical feelings of "being in love with that special someone" inevitably lessens in just "feelings" intensity as time and repetition increases.

Fidelity and other personal hardships (anti-selfishness) activity that have to be endured to maintain "morality" is based MOSTLY on intellect and wisdom. This wisdom CAN be enforced and unconsciously taught to each individual by merely societal mores - pragmatism on what works best for the most people in all very social human societies. The mutual benefits of "true love" consciously considered BEYOND merely selfish right now feelings include other loving qualities (forgiveness, accepting of less than perfect actions of others, sacrifice for children, empathy FOR one's love partner's feelings, etc. - see 1 Corinthians Chapter 13) are nothing BUT willful, intellectual pursuits - balancing long term wanted happiness/delayed gratification vs. short-term hedonistic "if it feels good, do it!" wants and needs.

One other thought I had on the story itself was just what the wife thought she would accomplish by having sex with another guy? Was it to "prove" her husband was best? And to get concrete proof she shouldn't pine for the "one that got away"? Undoubtedly she was once "in love" with her former fiance but also undoubtedly very sexually attracted to him. But her sexual moral standards back then was to remain a virgin until her wedding - or was it merely a tactic to keep her "fish" hooked?

Her new girlfriend stands in very well for the new societal standards of liberal "free love" sexual morality and also illustrates how very much sexual activity IS pretty much divorced from just "genetics". The number of Gays and Lesbians who actually engage in at least SOME heterosexual sex really even calls to question the current idea homosexuality is just "genetic" as well. With human beings sex is pretty complicated biologically. The only thing really simple about it is that human beings ARE the "highest sexed" mammal in the world. Ever.

But what if her own husband wasn't the best lover? Then what, Kemosabe? Give UP "better" sex with her other man? Start looking for even better sex in the fruitless quest for the absolute "best"? Or forever NOW accept her own "lesser" man as her only lover? At the same time all the other goodnesses of a loving marriage would suffer and be lessened. From trust to honest communications to merely liking to be around one another in even the non-intimate ways. It is ALL tied-in together in intricate ways.

As pointed out in the story (and I've done my own research) the number of actual "happy" open marriage/swinging types is probably less than 1 in a 1000, statistically - about .01% of the total human population. Good luck with those odds in living one's own life filled with happiness and satisfaction trying that lifestyle. I think it was Showtime once that did a real "reality" series on swingers - and even those people were just sad and full of angst and drama. It was interesting for that kind of reality, I thought. And none of the people portrayed were that good of an actor or actress - or else SUPREMELY good at acting "bad." ;-)

OTOH, divorce rates are now right around 50% and the main cause OF divorce is infidelity coupled with financial issues. And cheating IS expensive for all involved - so much for "free love".

A nice, short story. Five stars.

This is supposed to be a site for sex stories; not high school psychology. What a boring, boring waste of time

I wonder how this will work out?

Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Great story. And, sadly, these conversations do take place in real life, too.

First, I'm a proud, liberal, secular humanist, and I believe that we should be faithful to our spouses, so let's stick with the issue at hand, and not bring in external issues.

Thank you for agreeing with my point regarding "trying out" other partners. You also mentioned something that I forgot this time, though I've mentioned it in the past. If the new lover IS better, how does she know that there isn't someone out there still better?

As you say, not that sex is the be-all and end-all, as long as the sex is good, why risk all the other benefits of a good marriage just for some theoretical "better" sex?

I mostly would keep out of it and watch y'all have at it, but I do have some opinion of it all...

I disagree that He is being dishonest - if he brought up what she was doing, it would be him trying to prove what a horrible person She was... if she brought up what she was doing, she is finally being open about the situation. I can't see any way He could bring it up without an accusatory tone - and the situation goes down from there, especially since the accusation might be justified.

She is written as extraordinarily beautiful, but also much more immature than you might expect from someone of her age.

And... these days, how many people get affianced and maintain their virginity?

But... a well presented case, and perhaps a story could be made of it.

Green-something

I knew some swingers, ugly ,over weight, . nothing I would touch. Could not

figure how to steam clean them. never would go near them or let my wife near them.

made small talk with them, not rude , just no way I would swing.

Your dialogue gets clunky at times, and there are a couple places in the argument that could use more development. As a reader I would also like to "hear" that phone call to her "best friend"; some of the followup would round out the story nicely.

What great comments. What I have learned in 36 years being married is that every action begins with a thought. We know right from wrong. When you cheat it is because you choose to do so. You choose to remain faithful or not. We can overcome our selfish desires because we love our spouse and family. Great story.

As you say, he's not being dishonest. Neither is she, so far as WDMC has told us in his story. But neither has been completely open either. Neither has told the other partner everything about their situation as soon as they should have done.

You say "I can't see any way He could bring it up without an accusatory tone".

As I said before, if he had simply stated the fact that Penny had seen Kat having lunch with her ex, and if he said nothing more than that, their conversation could have progressed positively from there without necessarily becoming accusatory. Any good counsellor will tell you to start from observed facts before moving on to feelings and emotions.

Lue

Husband not telling wife what he knows makes perfect sense, allowing wife to demonstrate that she's ethical and loyal, or that she is no longer worth being his wife. Whether you like it or not, every day of a marriage is an opportunity to reevaluate, and deal with problems that are brewing, or thank God that as far as you are capable of knowing, your marriage doesn't have any problems, at present.

The author convincingly refuted all the usual cliche' excuses other writers offer to somehow justify or at least explain why a spouse, male or female, becomes a whore. I thought it was almost a lecture to the cheating swinging open marriage apologists, most of whom I suspect have little experience with faithful loyal relationships. That the wife comes off looking like a thoughtless selfish airhead is a reflection of the specious argument she was trying to support.

But how can there be an intelligent argument for betrayal, or disrespect? How would anyone give serious consideration to a business partner who wanted to go into business with another partner, "just to see what its like, how its different, what I might be missing." Or maybe the employer who wants to give your job to some other applicant, "just for a few days. I want to see how the other applicant can perform. But I promise you your job is not at risk." Seriously?

A marriage is not the result of an elimination tournament, where you marry the person left after all others have been found unacceptable. An intelligent marriage accepts the reality that nobody is perfect, and there is probably someone else in the world who would make an equal, maybe even a better, spouse. But like most choices, you make the best decision based on your current options and alternatives, or you choose to wait. And when you make your choice and take your vows, and you don't look back. Its not so much about being monogamous as it is about being a person of honor and integrity, keeping your promises.

And when you realize a marriage may not be working out, you end it before you go out test driving alternate spouses. An open marriage is a fake marriage or conditional marriage. The condition being that if the partners meet someone they prefer to their current spouse, then the open marriage becomes an ex marriage. Kind of like telling your employer that while you will accept his job offer, you are going to keep looking for something better. Most employers, and spouses, would reject such a tepid attitude toward a job or a marriage.

Marriage can be very difficult and demanding, but its not complicated. The wife in this story wanted to have her cake and it it too. The husband will be looking over his shoulder for some time before she can recover from the damage she has inflicted. We have to hope they make it. We have to accept they very well may not.

Thank you for a very well written and thought provoking story.

ARGHH! "Neither is she [being dishonest], so far as WDMC has told us in his story. But neither has been completely open either" - She hasn't been completely open, but she hasn't been dishonest? If "open" is being honest, then "not being completely open" (and she was far from "not being completely open," she was actively hiding things from Dex!) isn't honest, and is therefore DIShonest!

Kudos! Not only did I like your examples illustrating how ridiculous the whole idea that she and other wives in this category promote, but your statement that there probably IS somebody better out there, but we all make the best decision we can with the information at hand at the time, then are honor bound to abide by that decision. If it really isn't working out, then you end it.

Let's use the word 'lie' if you wish to confuse sins of omission with sins of commission.

Neither partner lied.

Both partners failed to be open and tell the other what they should have told them.

Lue

You wrote cogently, sir. You focused the argument back where it belongs.

The key facts are these: Katlyn's ex moved back to town. He is working at her company. He has made overtures to her. She has met him for lunch. He asked her for drinks. She gave a tepid no. She concealed all these things from her husband. Those are the facts about Katlyn.

Here are the facts about Dexter: He has NOT been seeing an ex and concealing that from his spouse. He knows that she has, and he conceals his knowledge from her.

To make those two sets of facts, somehow, morally equivalent, is the height of absurdity. They are not, in any way, shape or form, on the same plane.

That is to say that knowing a crime has been committed, and committing the crime, are equivalent. It's preposterous, on its face, and those who make such arguments are sophists. These are footnotes from freshman philosophy class.

doing something inappropriate with another man. He is doing nothing inappropriate. It makes all the sense in the world to wait and see what she said and did. He needed to know if he could trust her. For myself, it would be years before our relationship was mended and the kids are the only reason I would give her a chance. Without the kids, I would have told her to go ahead and sleep with him because either way I was divorcing her.

You hit it out of the park every time! Thanks for sharing your talent with us.

Cog

When one partner does something the other would prefer hadn't been done, and, to make it worse, the person doing it knows the other would probably prefer it hadn't been done, the question then becomes "How should the 'wronged' partner react?"

It all depends on how much he or she values the marriage. Is he or she prepared to put the work into helping the errant partner come back to an acceptable partnership, or is petulant destruction of the marriage the only outcome to be considered.

In WDMC's story, the wife had created a problem. In the practice of problem solving, the first question is "Who owns the problem?" The answer to that question tells you whose job it is to solve it.

Kat started out defining her problem as "Can I convince my husband to agree to my having sex with my ex-boyfriend?" The answer was NO.

Dex defined his problem somewhat differently. A more interpersonally aware husband would have been much more effective in solving his problem, but it seems to have worked out OK in the end.

Lue

she's going to do it.

maybe not immediately, but she will do it.

and when she does, you'd better be prepared to utterly destroy her.

Well written. Love how the husband handled it. Five stars. I will agree with what others have said, she doesn't come across as believable in the final discussion- as written. When she tells him yes and that she realizes she was wrong, she then starts arguing with him again about open marriages. That reveals that she still wants this, but is only conceding to save the marriage. Her heart isn't in it. She has changed and she has yet to demonstrate that she has changed back. Since she previously mentioned the notion of simply keeping it a secret from him, I suspect she will ultimately find a way to either cheat, or a plan to persuade/trap hubby. A better ending would have been just as written, with the addition that he was going to keep a close eye on her. It is slightly implied, but I wouldn't be laughing if I were him. He shouldn't feel too relaxed. Also, her last point about open marriages was a new development and reveals that she was never truly being open an honest with him. At first it was just a "let me get this out of my system" thing. In the end she reveals her ultimate goal, with the friend, was an open marriage. That means she doesn't just want a fling with her first love, she wants to be a swinger.

And why isn't hubby asking more questions about this class and instructor? I've never heard of anything like that other than on LE, and generally that kind of instructor is sampling the students goods. Think about it, if she was bold enough to suggest it to hubby, what emboldened her?

Regarding those who would give her credit for finally telling hubby about the proposition, I have to wonder what they are smoking. She wasn't confessing or coming clean. Her whole reason for disclosure was to get hubby on board. That's not honesty, that's manipulation.

then why is he thinking Harley Hogs Ville, TK U MLJ LV NV

Thank you for clarifying my point for me.

she might have done it assuming that she could keep it a secret. that's what my wife did 40 years ago. 3 guys (maybe 5-7). I found out 17 years later. had 2 kids in grade school, one seeing a psychiatrist, both just having lost their grandmother. no place to go. she slutted her way thru college and now 41 years later hasn't put out for the last 4 years. this guy lucked out, possibly fixing it early.

But you labelling me as a secular humanist is certainly misplaced. Nothing could be further from the truth. This is not the venue for theological debate or posturing and I apologize to the readers of this forum for this distraction but feel compelled to reply to justbobkc's judgement of me and others.

Bob, please consider the following:

"Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other."

Now Bob, are you saying or implying that intellect and Spirit are the same thing?

I do not want to discuss this with you any further in these pages and will not do so. I'm just this guy trying to work my way through life by the Grace of God.

Fascinating comments. No, of course they are not the same thing. You are not a secular humanist. Neither am I, but many that I respect are. Some of my family. I fail to see how that has anything to do with anything.

Can secular humanists not despise cheating, lying and betrayal? I believe many do. Sbrooks is one, by his own words. Can God-fearing people not feel lust and desire? I do.

I think it has to do with what one allows to dominate one’s life. Dexter, for example, looks on whatever the name of the woman was he mentioned, and wonders what it would be like to have sex with her. Kat wonders what it would be like to have sex with the lothario, whatever his name was.

The difference is that Dex allowed other considerations to dominate: Love for his wife, his children, personal integrity, loyalty, etc. He had no intention of following his thoughts, because he was controlled by other things.

Kat had the same thought, but was dominated by that thought, allowing other considerations to go by the wayside.

Either we are ruled by our intellect (Spirit controlled or otherwise), making conscious choices and allowing them to prevail, or by our bodies, allowing instinct to direct us. I, for one, am not ruled by my hormones. I rule them. Secular humanist or not, we either have character or we don’t. That’s a choice, not an imperative.

I too know, have read, and deeply respect many many who would call themselves secular humanists. And certainly God fearing folk do not have exclusive claim to morality, kindness, love, charity, and a slew of other qualities.

I think that those qualities are manifestations of creation itself.... material and spiritual (substitute any terms you like) and spring forth from archetypes beyond our comprehension and ability to define them.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,

Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. "

- Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio

I also need to say that many nominal God fearing folk are just as likely to be subject to the temptations of greed, malice, envy, lust, and cupidity. Many (myself chief among them) are not able to resist those temptations. I am grateful for Grace.

Sorry for the "preachiness" and thank you again for your insightful response to my comments.

Thanks for replying. I enjoy the thoughtful responses even those not in agreement.

You have brought an interesting other element into the debate. I certainly believe in the Holy Spirit but now from a Roman Catholic perspective. I did not mean to "accuse" you of being a liberal secular humanist - merely that secular humanism has brought a lot of liberal sexual mores into our whole culture and very broadly spread thru our PS system and colleges ("sex education"), and entertainment media.

I also believe that "the Spirit" is NOT separable or different from our intellectual will. Even those most accepting of the Spirit fail and sin, all too often. But no religion was specifically mentioned in this particular story so I did not include this in my response (and I don't even consider 1 Corinthians 13 - the "love verses" - as theological, just pragmatic human wisdom, inspired by God, but then ALL real human wisdom I think is inspired by God.) God wants us to use our minds, always. What is the greatest commandment of the law? What was Jesus' answer to this question? I'm sure you know.

The fact is that "free love" is undoubtedly an anti-God philosophy (along with "whatever two consenting adults want to do with each other, is fine" - it's NOT fine and never is whether the two consenting adults are married or not. OTHER people are ALWAYS involved in spreading ripples of impact - from the possibility of STD infections with HIV the worst and vast social costs born by all - to pregnancy and it's complications - to future mates and relationship consequences.) Sex is serious business to human beings individually and socially. Always has been and always will be. Just "fun" sex is a laughable oxymoron.

Maybe you aren't aware but the codification and general acceptance of "free love" and then "no fault, easy divorce" comes from the early Marxists. The very first "no fault" divorce laws were passed in Communist Russia soon after the revolution.

I've certainly known a lot of "good" liberal secular humanists, as well. They invariably believe in and follow (try to live themselves) the Judeo-Christian moral frameworks basics, just don't believe in either "God" or "organized religion" themselves personally. OK. But when I then ask them what is the underlying basis - the foundation - for their morality I seldom get any coherent answers. They just KNOW "right from wrong."

Until something like "Eugenics" comes along and they just KNOW racism is moral because "science" says it is. And many, many Christians (in name only?) also fell into this very same trap. They really didn't understand the depth of Christianity and let their own "rational" minds lead them away from the Spirit guided truth of "all humans being equal before God." All four major Protestant denominations in the USA split over the slavery - the "scientific racism" issue - in the USA before the Civil War. Even after slavery ended, scientific racism continued - which is why Woodrow Wilson and then FDR (along with millions of other highly educated people) continued believing in racism.

It is great to "just know" marital/sexual infidelity is wrong - but it is better to understand the real reasons it is wrong in depth. Apparently, more and more people in the USA and Western world (formerly known as "Christendom") no longer know the real reasons - decide to take JUST a little bite out of that apple - and the result is 50% divorce rates - and it would be climbing but more and more people don't even bother getting married anymore.

Oh - and I don't apologize to anyone for anything I write here. Anyone can read it or not, even flame or blast me in reply. I just check for interesting and thoughtful responses.

sounds like a first-class asshole. What does Kat have to do? Inform him of every event in her life the moment it happens? People can drift into events out of curiosity. There's nothing to report. Then, when she feels that something is 'off', she tells him.

It's not obvious to me why the story was written this way, except as a character-study of an insecure, over-controlling personality type. If this is the way Dexter always operates, I have to wonder why Kat hasn't left him long ago. Perhaps she is a submissive at heart.

The cheating lifestyle is wrong because it destroys the secure background of the common kids in the family. The best is for the kids an intact family. An cheater husband/wife does emotional problem (I do not say about bigger problems) which take away the secure background (in easy case only the emotional safety decreases).

@ Dexter Anon

The marriage market is wrong for a divorced woman with 2 kids. The marriage statistic shows the most successful second (third) marriages are with divorced people when the new husband and wife have kids from their previouse marriges.

An example: It may be the new husband divorced a cheating wife and the court gave the kids to the cheating wife. This divorced husband marries a divorced woman whose exhusband was a cheater and she got the kids from the court. According to the marriage statistic figures these type second (third) marriages are the most successful.

The old lover is not this type man according to the story. Dexter shows the possibilty for divorce to his wife and you think this an arrogant asshole's action. Interesting opinion.

I recommend an unsuccessful second marriage example story. A cheating wife with 3 kids and a second husband without kids: likegoodwine "No Strings Attached" shows well this in a good BTB story. (Loook out! Here the husband does not sell his cheating wife to a Central American whorehouse!)

BTW This story is a Prevent Cheating story. 5*****

A point I haven't seen talked about is the boiled frog effect. Kate probably thought she was handling it and thought there was no use bringing it up All of us have goon to work and seen an attractive coworker that flirts a little. Do we tell our spouses? It all starts out so simple. Especially if you have the " friend" affirming that you are handling it. Going to lunch with the proposal for a full blown affair shocked her into realizing she was in hot water. Now she has to deal and Derrick had the hook set deep before she realized it.

Dex throws the cold water, the reality of what was going to happen. I think Kat will stay the course and be wiser for the experience

Being faithful is always a choice. I've been faithful for 35 years and it is integrity that keeps you faithful not emotions because if one is married long enough there will be days that the love of your life is not very likable Marriage is a comment to make ones life journey with someone you love. Honoring commitments is a daily choice which becomes a habit. When both honor their commitments it's a wonderful life.

Your post is too long to respond to point by point, but I have several thoughts, and I'm going start with a biggie.

I do not believe in god or an afterlife. I believe that when I die, I'm worm food. So I'm not as good as I can be not out fear of Hell or hope for Heaven, but because I believe that it is the right thing to do.

I'm happy to see that you mentioned the god-fearing slaveholders, and the fact is that much evil has been done in the name of god, and your saying that those people misunderstand or are misusing god doesn't change that fact. Speaking of slavery, the abolitionists, while in general believers, began religious movements that begat humanism.

I also don't care for your "some secular humanists are good just as some believers are bad." Besides sounding like the racist who says, "Some of my best friends are black," while spewing racism, it makes it seem like good secular humanists are the exception while good believers are the norm. Secular humanists are just as good (or bad) as anyone else.

"Science" (interesting use of quotes) has NOTHING to say about morality. It simply tries to come up with theories that best explain the world based on observable facts, hence evolutionary theory over creationism.

I HOPE your rejection of "two consenting adults" isn't an anti-gay comment!

WHERE no-fault divorce came from doesn't matter! IF it is good (at least based on LW stories I have my doubts!), then it is good. While I'm not a particular believer in Marxism, you shouldn't conflate it with the Stalinist dictatorship that took over Russia following the revolution.

You believe that "good" comes from god. If I could PROVE to you, beyond ANY doubt, that god didn't exist, would you say, "Fuck it!" and stop being good, or would you continue to try to be/do good because you "just know" that it is the right thing to do?

So, let me get this straight: If there is/was no god to tell you that it was wrong, you couldn't "just know" that adultery, lying, stealing, rape and murder were wrong?

I realize that there are some people, probably too many, who walk the straight and narrow only out of fear of the law. I would hope, and I DO believe, that the vast majority of people wouldn't commit crimes even if they had no fear of prosecution.

Do you believe otherwise? That your neighbors would take what's yours if they had no fear of the law. Or do you believe that they wouldn't, because they "just knew" that it was wrong?

Such community where everybody steals everything and kills everybody that society sinks into the chaos and the much majority of people will suffer. Common interest says what is the wrong and the good.

In the earlier centuries the people did big sins with death of millions.

The best example the head of Treblinka who was a strong catholic Austrian police expert.....

Do Muslims "just know" revenge rape is wrong? Why do they keep doing it? Do Muslims "just know" indiscriminate terror bombing/mass killing is wrong? Do Muslims "just know" adultery is wrong? (Then why do they still believe in polygamy? Polygamy is merely legalized adultery.)

Did the German NAZI's (many of them nominally Christians but others very much scientific secular humanists) "just know" killing "genetic defectives" by the millions was wrong? How about all those atheist communists who killed over 100 million total - OF THEIR FELLOW CITIZENS in their own countries - during the 20th century alone. Did THEY "just know" such mass murder was wrong?

The fact is that what all the world's modern liberals mostly believe descend MUCH more from Marxist socialism and basic Marxist philosophies than they embrace what used to be the very definition of humanist liberals - Catholic Christianity. Those Protestant Christians that post-slavery that helped usher in "secular humanism" (you seem to think) actually came up with nothing new that Catholic scholastics had not already deduced from Thomas Aquinas (in the 13th century) on. Bartolome de las Casas in the Valladolid debates in the mid 16th century clarified for Roman Catholic Christians that all men WERE equal before God and should be treated equally and justly under man's laws, irregardless of race or color or "societal developmental status." This was merely ignored by the slavers and scientific racists - including one of the early "Greats" of Enlightenment Philosophers - John Locke. In fact, ALL the Enlightenment "greats" were racists, as well as all being very much anti-Catholic. Many, of course, tended towards agnosticism or downright atheism. And thusly, "relative morality" was born.

Why did you merely ignore the whole eugenics question? The American Humanist Society published their own very first "Humanist Manifesto" in 1933 and never EVER mentioned the equality of all human beings as a basic moral foundation, instead they want to merely support the ascendancy of science over merely "superstitious religion" as the most important thing. Of course, because then relative morality must be embraced by all. One little trick is to merely lump ALL religion (and ALL "gods") into the same bucket. You know "all religion is the same." This is very much NOT true as Islam is very much different from catholic Christianity, and all the old pagan human sacrifice religions are also much different.

https://americanhumanist.org/what-is-humanism/manifesto1/

I believe in the "one true God" - the Trinity - Father, Son Jesus, and Holy Spirit - and the whole Apologetics understanding of the Bible. Two thousand years of thoughtful and inspired understanding of the Word. Now, I can't absolutely prove that "God exists" - but I CAN prove the effect on the whole world this belief system has had, and the vast improvements in many personal human conditions that it has wrought. No other system has had anywhere nearly the same positive effects. It's not even close - and "scientific" liberalism, secular humanism - has already dismally failed by embracing Darwinist Eugenics alone for such a long time with so much human misery following these beliefs put into law and into action. The fact secular humanists NOW all decry "racism" doesn't change the dismal history. And calls for "reparations" and "reverse racism" doesn't either and actually just reinforces their OWN continued racism. Many scientists also continue to embrace eugenics - but just now "positive" eugenics like designer "perfect" babies.

Morality DOES exist in human beings without "God" dictating it - in theory. Because we are social species then specific social rules have to be developed to promote a certain harmony - that allows individual and group survival. The problem is that such "moralities" differ widely between different human cultures and the question becomes which moral systems are best? How does one measure such a thing? Is merely reproductive success the best measure? Maybe the total collective of "individual happiness"?

I think it is all more complex than that. It is VERY complicated and chaotic and no "utopia" will ever occur here on Earth. I choose Judeo-Christianity based society as the one I want to live in as THE best there is, ever was, or ever will be, here on Earth. Many others choose otherwise. Choose carefully grasshopper, YMMV.

I was in the middle of my reply when my tab closed, and I'm not inclined to try to reconstruct it at this time, besides I feel that this whole discussion is an exercise in futility as we will never convince each other.

I will say that both the Nazis, who I think were more Christian than you seem willing to admit, and the Communists, practiced what I consider to be a form of secular religion, with the leader assuming the god role, to be obeyed at all costs.

YOU never answered my question, that since you believe that morality comes from god, that if you lost your belief in god that you would no longer be moral?

My apologies for hijacking your comments.

I should have taken this offline sooner.

OK - this will be my last reply to you on this subject - though I do not believe it is at all off the point of this story in all kinds of ways - including the introduction of a &quot;secularist&quot; philosophy element by the mention of the &quot;class teacher&quot; and mention of 1960's &quot;Pop Psychology&quot; by the original author - WDMC. I doubt Kat and her friend was attending a class at the local Christian Church. Probably &quot;Adult Education&quot; someplace like a community college. (And not to nitpick the story but how could Dex NOT know his wife was taking a class? Did Kat forget to tell him and make some lie up about her weekly night absences? ;-)

But to specifically try and answer your last question: like Ben Franklin I spent approximately 35 years of my adult life unchurched and basically a pretty liberal agnostic and just determined to be a &quot;good person&quot; on my own. And I didn't kill or rape anyone, or steal...but I cheated on my first wife and we ended up divorced. (She MAY have cheated first and certainly did some of that herself, but still - in retrospect I've always felt not good about how all that turned out.)

Ben Franklin (if you read his autobiography) wasn't at all happy how just being &quot;moral&quot; on his own turned out either. Ben also left his Puritan Church and religion and lived as an agnostic for years as a young man when he first left home. Ben had at least one child OOW, whose mother dumped the child on him and disappeared. Who this woman was remains a historical mystery. Ben ended up living with another woman as his &quot;common law&quot; wife until death parted them. She was first married to a guy who abandoned her and disappeared so she wasn't able to get a divorce herself - so even that &quot;common law&quot; marriage status was questionable. Somehow Ben's Puritan and Quaker neighbors didn't give them much trouble for living together.

Ben's son ended up siding with the British during the Revolution and moved to England. Ben himself owned two slave servants before eventually returning back to God, often leading prayers in Congress, and finally freeing his slaves and eventually leading the Penn. Abolitionist Society.

I haven't done nearly the good that Ben ended up doing, in my own life, no doubt about it - but reading his thoughts on just &quot;personal&quot; morality always stuck with me. The BIG question always ends up being, how do you know when you are actually doing something immoral that you think/feel is actually moral? What/who do you compare it with?

As I often do when I get into these kinds of online debates I will offer my esteemed (good!) opponents one final response if they wish.

I appreciate the firm stand in the story against cuckdom. I appreciate the husband's line of logical reasoning. Was almost a flash story - concise and to the point. Agree with HDK's comment. Five star story.

Her tough love. Pointing out the path she was on and the real consequences that would result opened her eyes.

If You sign on for a monogomous relationship it is an agreement.

Little short for my taste but I'm not really sure where the author could have gone with it from here.

He did fight back. He fought back with logic, making her think of HER of the consequences of HER actions.

He fought putting the onus on her, not accusing per se but letting her think of the options and putting her in the position to determine her own fate. Some people just can't stop a player unless they can see it thought someone else's eyes.

Marriage is monogamous. Sex is only part of romantic love, and not by any means the most important part. Trusting and loving and the romance is all tied together. Even if the sex with her ex-fiance was better, knowing about him would probably everything else but the sex would be much, much worse.

The story is really about someone obsessing about something they can't have in a vacuum. Once they verbalize to someone with a different point of view, they usually see how foolish they are. Especially if the person sees it from the other point of view, her hub doing it with someone else. Reality has a tendency of doing that.

Sex isn't the only thing, nor the most important thing, it does hold the marriage together in the early years but there are so many more things than sex to keep the partners together down the road, especially when menopause or ED hit.

I for one wouldn't give up on 25-30 years of marriage because of bad sex and lose everything else.

about 40 years ago, my wife asked me if I had ever considered being involved with another couple. I knew instantly who she had in mind, we knew a couple, nice people except his wife tended to be a tad on the loose side. She liked to flash me, stuff like that.

Being dumb, I thought why not? Then, I liked the other wife better and the guy did not like that, plus my wife thought he was "sort of quick" as she put it.

Complications, unforeseen which is why I have an EX wife.

That kind of thing is really expensive, too.

But I don't really think that someone who has obsessed for so long about something like this that they begin to give in to their obsession will turn their thinking around in one night. I do believe that she might be made to come to the decision not to act on said obsession for the next week by following her husband's instruction and especially staying stay away from her instigator. Then she might begin to re-think her obsession. Once you go so far with this type of thinking as to start acting on it, pretty deeply ingrained I would think. Also Kat's ethics seem to be a weather vane. But I liked the story, I like hubby's resolution and instructions and I liked the really good comments I read on here. All of the package was thoroughly entertaining and that's what I read for.

I like it when rational arguments turn the tide. I think this imaginary couple is going to make it. This was a well fought out story and an excellent read. Panther fan.

Were are we ? I should say when are we back in the stone age! COME HERE WOMAN

TROG WANTS SNOO SNOO (Futurama) Hey the story is great! Thanks★★★★★ WOOF

Should he trust her ? NO !

Should he believe her ? NO !

Should he watch her like a hawk ? Fuck yeah !

Lots of possibilities here: reaction of the ex- to her rejection and her informing his boss, and how he tries for revenge. What of her GF and instructor when they hear she stayed faithful, etc.

Well written but needs a sequel of her journey either out of her obsession or giving in to it.

i don't believe her. part 2 please where she goes ahead and does it anyway

A niche I like is having a situation to stop cheating before it happens, and pulling it off. This story did that.

way your spouse needs to be involved in every aspect of your life. Maybe not actively but surely you should at all times be aware of what your spouse would think about a decision or a situation that affects you. The spouse should be so foremost in your thinking that you shouldn't even have to stop and visualize what they would say or do. And the same goes for your co-workers. They should know your spouse and through familiarity be aware of what they think about what interpersonal goings on happen at your job. Especially male co-workers and your wife. I think there is entirely too much grab ass going on in the work place and that doesn't lead anywhere good. As for his wife going out to lunch with her ex-fiancé and then wanting to go out with him on a date, well looks to me like she is nucking futz. Girls nights' out are a disaster waiting to happen and married people goin on dates with non spouses is so far beyond inappropriate that it isn't even funny. So, second read and would give 5 more stars if I could. I just hope that hubby is able to salvage a marriage out of this bullshit obsession of hers.

But 5 stars is all the system lets me give.

WOW WOW WOW. What kind of mind does the author have to enable Dexter with all those arguments so logically presented? I. Am. Impressed.

I momentarily thought this would be "the piece" to shut down the mass of people represented by the wife. But had to admit that logic cannot win against lust and desire and preconception ("a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still" my mama said").

Over 100 comments in less than 6 months! Wow. Longer than the story. Intriguing like the story. A tribute to the story. And I read/scanned them all -- rare. So many good ones. But don't miss "Anonymous. I really enjoyed" on 8-5-17 and kimi1990 on the same date.

Justbobkc in all his wonderful arguments, probably could have included: the most wonderful and successful nation experiment in history was founded on "endowed by their Creator." And some early colonies had theological tests to hold public office, eg belief in the Trinity. Ie., the foundation for the foundation of the USA is God.

Congrats to whatdreamsmaycome

Paul in Oklahoma

truth is he can never trust her again 2*