All Comments on 'One Wounded Seagull'

As I said in the last part of Lucy/Lue story: "Maybe the husband will think that he also is a seagull and have the same right to be free...Will his wife accept that?"...And that happened!!! It took some years, but he finally found a "blue sky" where he could "fly" as a free seagull!!! And he after all she did was a considerate seagull!!! He only felt once the freedom of flying in an open blue sky!!! And she almost went crazy about it!!! What a selfish woman...Welcome back Lucy, it's your turn to suffer now!!! 3*

Another compelling chapter in this story. I'm struck by how brutally honest the narration is. Every raw nerve and emotion is exposed, and I can imagine you reliving each and every moment as you write it. It must be incredibly cathartic.

Thank you for sharing your very personal story. I hope that this isn't the end of your story, as I feel personally invested in the fate of Lue and Don -- even though I know the story has a happy ending.

I don't know what to feel about this. I liked the fact that it was very honest and it wasn't a simple 'the husband gets cheated on by the narcissictic bitch and simply accepts it' story. And by story I mean the entire series (I had to go back and read the others). He let her have her thing and he had his.

What gets me is the hypocrisy of the wife. I know that she was being honest with her feelings, but it seemed as though she didn't love him as much as he loved her. She didn't set him free as he did her. When she had her fling, he didn't laden her down with guilt and spill his feelings. He set her completely free. She set him free until she couldn't deal with it anymore. Not the same thing.

Then the fact that she lied to him about her affair wasn't dealt with. At least he was upfront with her about his. He didn't try to hide it from her. She lied to him time and time again for an entire year. He still forgave her and set her free to come back on her own. She didn't do the same.

He was right about one thing. Their affairs were completely different, but in more ways that he acknowledged. Their marriage was in the shitter when she had hers, this is true. But she didn't make it any better with lies and deceit. She didn't try to strengthen it. She was willing to risk her marriage for her own pleasure. When he had his, he truly believed that their marriage was strong enough to withstand it. When he felt that it was too much for his marriage, he withdrew. There was no selfishness with his affair. She was still his main priority when he had his. She was HER main priority when she had hers.

All evidence points to the fact that he loves her more than she loves him.

It was still a great series though.

It was ok for her to shit on her husband and childern .she lied she went behind her husbands back an long term affair you make the decison you affair is more important then your family .Don loved her so much he allowed her to make him a cuckold wimp he held the family together while she shit on him over and over . Then took her back with full love and forgiveness after she shit all over there life.What does she do she makes a scene and cant handle it and never acepts it.This is a self serving woman does she truly love her husband no . Do I belive she didnt cheat on him through out there mariage no . He didnt have sex till she new about it and he didnt keep it going .He changed his thinking for her .She proved by her actions she is still a self serving person and there marage is all about her and nothing about him. The stories are well writen for that I give you 4 For honesty I give Him a 5 her I give a 2 dagoatmandavid said it Ill cya later

Look at any married couple. Never, ever, are their loves the same. Love is not a static thing. It changes over time, depending on how your partner changes, depending on how you change, and depending on your mindset in accepting your partner's changes.

Love also ebbs and flows, the various aspects of love ebb and flow over time and, again, depending on life circumstances.

I would not say he loved her more. She was stupid. As far as I recall she cheated for 12 weeks, although she said she was infatuated for a year. She confessed her affair when asked. And she felt the crushing guilt after, fro what she did and for what she could have caused to happen to her family.

Because of their different personalities Don was able to compartmentalize and rationalize her infidelity. She never did it again. That's what the story said. I'm not gonna read stuff into a story that isn't there, simply to fit my own life experiences.

Lue did not have the personality to allow her to as easily accept. It's not that she didn't accept it, especially because of her affair. She just could not as easily accept it. And she talked to her husband about it. If she was the same woman she was years earlier she might have just gone out and fucked someone else again.

I see nothing wrong with the way this panned out. At different times and in different ways, there's always one person stronger than the other ion a relationship. In this one, it's Don.

It may be realistic to a small group of society. But the ones I deal with daily aren't very forgiving. Its sounded like a wimpy cuckold story. I deal with cheating military spouses daily and just over 80% end in divorce. I don't see the no matter what she does, happening often or the he forgives her no matter what, very often. I spend a lot of time trying to keep him/her from going to jail. This was a well written cuckold story to me. It went from WAAC to both being cheaters. (3)

and then the true cost to the relationship from the open swinging lifestyle can be exposed. Nothing is static, everything changes, but once the die is cast the couple can never go back to the decision point and change things.

Actually i was very sad at Lue's selfish attitudes at the expense of the union and sadder now that Don has undermined it more. There is no real balance to be achieved by both partners diverting parts of their energy and emotion outside of the relationship, despite the unsubstantiated claims of the open/swinger crowd. And there is certainly no enlightenment there, only rationalization. To each his or her own. However the true cost must be counted and most of us (myself included) rarely do the counting.

But only to an extent. They do have different mindsets and approach situations differently. His compartmentalization allows him to see things differently, so when he approaches a situation his actions will reflect that. But that just makes what she did more egregious. She chose to something that she wouldn't accept being done to her.

No matter how you put it, she didn't love him when she made her mistake. It was all about her. For him, it was about the marriage and what is best for it. His love for her never "ebbed and flowed". Through the entire series, his love has always stayed "static". It has been about the family as a whole, and not just him getting what he wasn't getting at home. Her love "ebbed" when she felt she had the right to go outside of her marriage, then it "ebbed" again when she lied about it.

Love does not "ebb and flow". Sure things evolve and change in a relationship, but the love does not change. At least it isn't supposed to. No matter what, "us" should be more important than "me". Whether the couple are swingers, monogamous, or ménage trois, the moment that one of them knowingly does something that they know could be detrimental to "us" then "me" has become more important. That is not love.

Somehow, I seem to have avoided the rabid idiot comments this time. Nobody wants me to die, and nobody has accused me of being a lesser primate form of life.

impo_60, indeed you did say "I told you so". My responses to you in the early stories were from me as I am now, justifying what Lue did back then.

swingerjoe, indeed I did try to explain the emotions that one insecure woman can go through. Her insecurity in the early stories was of herself as an attractive woman. She obtained confirmation from her affair that she was "sexy and desirable". In this story the insecurity was more complex. She was never going to lose her husband, but I tried to show the mood swings from self-pity to rational acceptance.

javmor79, hypocrisy is an interesting thing. In her rational moments, Lue saw what she was doing as hypocritical. But emotion often overrules logic.

polyluvr, not only are loves not the same, but they change over the years. The person you married is not the person you are married to today.

Huedogg2, it is sad that it doesn't happen often. Judgementalism and lack of tolerance are major problems in the world. Too many people are musturbators: You must do this, you must not do that. In Australia, a country of 23 million people, we have one woman killed per week by an aggrieved partner or ex-partner. It is an epidemic of partner intolerance.

Once again, thanks to all commentators,

L

Since the adulteress had already done her bit towards breaking up the family, she was just plain lucky Don didn't take it further with Kylie. You want someone else? Get single first. Pretty good tale. I don't tend to be lenient towards adulterers nor adulteress'. Cheers!

MORE STINK TO SNIFF

Sorry, anonymous, no. Settling back into a quiet traditional married relationship not only doesn't make for more crap to come, it also doesn't make for particularly interesting reading.

I could have added another concluding paragraph saying that Don and Lue both learned from their experiences and settled back into a loving relationship for the next half of their lives, neither looking back with any regret. Exciting stuff? I think not. (Lue did, however, encourage a couple of friends to do a few unusual things.)

palewriter, of course, as you say, nothing is static. Every experience changes us. I hope that what I have learned over the years is to not make uninformed judgements about others. Today, Lue is a lot more like Don.

retmstr, I'm sorry for you that you're not lenient towards adultery. That probably means that you are intolerant of perhaps a third of the married population. I have nothing against you insisting that your relationship be monogamous, so long as your partner is happy with your insistence. But I do not accept that you have a right to tell others that they must not do it. My guiding principle is 'don't hurt anybody'. If somebody has a relationship outside marriage and nobody gets hurt by it, that's fine by me.

I've found that a successful erotic story must main a sharp sexual edge throughout as much of the tale as possible. This story deals in issues that would normally create a good deal of sexual tension but quickly siphons away any such tension that would like to appear.

it is very natural for younger women to see out older men. After all they are already established in their careers, usually have resources younger men don't have, are more stable, and are more likely be able to provide at proper atmosphere and setting for raising children. His wife is lucky he even cares about her, and really should have offered to walk in and join the couple and letting the younger woman become a second wife. Talk about double standards whats good for the goose isn't good for the gander.

Thanks for that comment. Our interest in Literotica stories started when we found Eyes Wide Open by Susan B in the Erotic Couplings category. It did what you suggest an erotic story should do, in building up the tension. (It probably should have been in Loving Wives.)

When I started writing Lue to Lucy, I set out to do something like that, but with a shock start. However, the story soon became an exploration of the thoughts, confusions and insecurity of Lue. Sometimes an author is controlled by the story rather than the other way round.

Then it ended up with the Wounded Seagull which is even more about insecure emotions.

L

Adultery is sad and ugly, like bull fighting. The fact that people enjoy watching bull fighting, promote it, pay money to watch it, and maybe do so by the millions, does nothing to make bull fighting less ugly or sad. It only makes the fans of bull fighting appear that much more coarse, cruel, and uncivilized. Similar traits for those who condone, even celebrate, adultery.

That Don was willing to accept Lue's lying and adultery, even thinking it was beneficial to their marriage, is like someone accepting that bull fighting is good if people like it, and no one, except the bull, gets hurt. Civilization recognizes a distinct difference between tolerance, and condoning. And civilized people retain the prerogative to judge things as good or bad, without necessarily sanctioning or outlawing what we abhor. I do not think bull fighting should be made unlawful. But I have no qualms or guilt judging the people who enjoy bull fighting as being uncivilized and inhuman. Similar to people who think adultery is acceptable, even in their own marriage. Of course Don and Lue can live their marriage as they see fit, and maybe attend a few bull fights when not enjoying sex with other partners. But both behaviors are cruel and contrary to human decency. Lue learned this only after what she had done to Don had been done to her, a hallmark of an immature and shallow mind. But at least she learned. In the first story Don is a moron, or an automaton, to accept cuckolding so stoically. Bull fighting, or an adulterous marriage. In both, something precious and innocent dies, for the crass pleasure of very selfish and ignorant people.

that most(maybe all) of the comments are quite insightful and interesting insights into what was presented. I too felt the sting of the raw story telling, putting myself in Don

s shoes, and would not have reacted as well(or similarly). I really have nothing to add to the comments, as they are quite good and capture the variety of my feelings on the matter well.

Lue, you are a good writer, writing about your situation, and we are better for hearing your tale. Hate your POV, if I was Don I woulda tortured you for some time with the lovely young Paula, at least for an equivalent period to which you tortured him with your dalliance with ???(can't remember his name). But that is me, it doesnt make your story any less compelling or interesting. I have to give you a 5.

And I am out. Be interesting to see if you can write as compellingly a fictional tale.

I'm disappointed to learn that this is the end of this series, but I completely understand. As you (luedon) wrote, real life often doesn't translate well to compelling storytelling. I'm glad to know that in real life, "Lue" and "Don" lived happily ever after. All too often, I see people commenting in this section who insist that whenever extra-marital sex occurs, it ALWAYS ends in divorce, STD's, broken families, murder, etc.. No, it doesn't. In fact, I'd be willing to wager that more often than not, it ends just as your story ends.

Thanks again for contributing your story. I hope that you continue to write, and try your hand at fiction with the next one.

What complex feelings you take us through in this sequel. The same character who was almost glib about her own affair runs the gamut of emotions when the shoe is on the other foot. She is powerless to do anything about the situation, and her angst over that powerless state is greater than her angst over the affair. Very clever twist.

Thanks for your story.

Without kids the open marriage, cuckolding marriage, to hold mistresses, etc. are easier question. With kids these non monogamous connections become a continouse danger against the kids......from molestation to live in broken family. It is independent from the tolerance. The noir example: May a tolerant willing cuckold husband be so tolerant to the wife's bull that the bull molests the 13 years old daughter????!!!!!!

Hypocrisy practice story. I wrote in my previouse Anon comment the extramarital sex is continouse danger against the kids.

The wife thought she could not compete with a 22 years old girl and the husband finds a 22 years old not Kylie but a Kate, Eve, etc and he leave her for a newer 22 years old.................and for the kids a broken family............and the wife opened the dam/ obstacle/gate before the husband!

it is not a marriage of equals, nor is it a partnership, and it most certainly not built on strength of character and caring for each other.

it is two flawed people using each other as excuses.

a business arrangement.

We've probably run to the end of the commentary after these few days. I enjoyed the discussion, even with those who disagreed violently with the morality of the characters (and thus with my own outlook on the world).

As swingerjoe said, I also suspect that most flings or brief affairs simply fizzle out or come to a very ordinary end in one way or another. I do wonder about many of the commentators and story-writers on the Loving Wives topic. Are they are reacting from personal bad experiences when they want my story to have an unhappy outcome?.

Of course, many stories like mine don't end well. I was just intrigued by those who were so upset about my story having a happy ending. So many comments tried to re-write the story to have the characters suffering disease, divorce and/or death.

Sadly for them, in my story, nobody did.

L

ps: I missed seekeraz this time. Banter with him was so much fun in the early chapters of the story.

I agree that once we perfect man, we will have a much more tolerant and peaceful world. But until that Utopian dream comes true, why do Australian women, or any woman, need to die at the hands of a stronger person, regardless of their gender or relationship, without the means of simple effective self defense? Australia is sacrificing women on the altar of politically correct pacifism. If citizens, especially women, are denied the human right to self defense for the sake of a policy to leave individuals at the mercy of the physically superior person, then you have returned your culture to jungle rule, where the strong and violent dominate the weak and peaceful. I'm certain some of the predators eventually meet justice, but at what cost to the victims who must suffer or die? And the effectiveness of your progressive defenselessness is illustrated by the continuation of Australian women dying at the rate of 1 a week. Not much deterrence there, nor police protection. So I think your concern for the safety of women is disingenuous, given your political outlook on owning the means of self defense. It is shameful that citizens must die so some bureaucrats and the politically enlightened can think that society as a whole is statistically safer. Tell that lie to the family of the woman who is murdered next week.

I kinda lost track of the story when it became obvious to me that I am out of cadence with just about everyone. Maybe I've healed about betrayal in my own life.

Betrayal and deceit are real button pushers for me and I was disappointed by Lue's cavalier attitude towards her commitment to Don and to her family for the sake of ego and physical stroking. I remain convinced that while relationships can heal and reconciliation is possible and in many cases desirable relationships don't get stronger because of betrayal and reconciliation... they merely survive.

And in the early days of using Loving Wives as therapy I reacted strongly and badly to the cheaters I think that I have achieved some balance. I oppose BTB and violence of any sort but I do not think that reconciliation at any cost is good. Nor do I think that children benefit by one person staying the course just for the kids' sakes in the face of egregious betrayal.

I also believe that in the case of cheating, someone always gets hurt even if unaware. For sure relationships get hurt despite claims to the contrary. There is a percentage of the population who swing, swap, share, and sneak around and that is their deal. There is also a percentage of the population who seek to humiliate and hurt partners and that is all of our deal because we are affected in one way or another... the butterfly effect. the same is true for those who want to be humiliated and hurt.

Anyhow there won't be much back and forth about this from me. Lue really betrayed herself, Don, and the family and I am not convinced that Don's actions brought any balance and harmony back into the relationship.

Be well

It's good to know that you're still alive and kicking.

'Healing' is an interesting concept. Don decided to not feel wounded by Lue's actions, where Lue decided to feel wounded by Don's actions. One didn't need healing. The other did. (Or what she called mending.)

Similar circumstances, different decisions.

Lue didn't see herself as "deciding" to be wounded at the time. She saw it as something that happened to her. It took some time afterward, but Lue did become more like Don as the years rolled on.

L

...of your last comment, luedon, sounds like an interesting story to me. As I wrote before, you can delve into fiction that is based in reality. Hell, almost every story I've written falls into that category! Again, please don't stop writing just because you've run out of real-life stories.

Except for the TRUE open marriage (cuckolding is not open marriage!) who started the first extramarital affairs that spouse became HYPORYTE! This story shows this very well too! In the most cases the husband will not be 100% faithful in his further life if the wife was the first. It may be you think Don is the exception in your story, but the majority of the husbands becomes a not serial but time to time sporadic cheater. JPB has a lot of excellent stories in the "Slut Husbands" story group about this.

BTW 60% the minimum 1 extramarital sex for a lifetime at husbands to the 55% in the wife group.

The next step will be the youngest kid will be 18 years old...................

Both in the story structure and in the internal conflicts.

I admit that I am one of those who believes that adultery should be

a crime, but certainly not punishable by death. The destruction of partner who trusts you is just too much for me took sanction. I have to admit that I am very old fashioned and believe that going back on what I swore in public would destroy me and to have the person who I place first in my life do such a thing would be monstrous.

But I enjoyed reading this story.

well I gave it a 1.....think about this this lame piece of wet paper is as sexy as a smelly stinking steaming slimy, though fresh light brown turd, worth the 1..........

...but I need to comment on the comments. Yes, love and people do change over time, but when 2 people stand before God and man and pledge their most solemn oath to each other, something else enters the equation. It's called commitment. When you make that commitment, you are saying you're in for the long haul, regardless of what changes come. When you can no longer keep that commitment, you need to end the marriage. You owe it to your partner, you owe it to your marriage and, if your word means anything, you owe it to yourself.

Thanks for reading it, and for those who appreciated the writing while disagreeing with the morality of the characters, I was hoping back at the beginning that there would be more like you who could take that mature attitude.

Studebakerhawk, these characters didn't stand before any god, but they did make vows that they later broke. Attitudes and beliefs can even change to the point that a vow made at an earlier stage of life can be seen to be obsolete.

I think the important thing is to accept that we all approach life differently. Elsewhere I used Albert Ellis' term musturbators - people who say you must do this and you must not do that. As an atheist, I worry about the current crop of extremist atheists who say others must not believe in God as much as I do about religious extremists who say everybody must believe.

Again, thanks all,

L

After reading your earlier story about Lue and Ray, she really has got a nerve limiting Don's adultery to one encounter. She had a 3 month passionate, intense affair with Ray and flaunted it in Don's face with not a trace of guilt. Now she warns off Kylie about continuing the affair with her husband. She created an open marriage now she should live with it.

I am glad this chapter was added. And of course, Alot of the story is then later clarified in the comments section. When you say that eventually Lue came to be "more like Don" (in thoughts and/or deeds?), I really wonder if it WOULD have been that way for her WITHOUT the events of THIS story taking place? Some have called her out for hypocracy. Umm, Ok, well sure, she didn't like the feelings she was forced to experience and ultimately ACCEPT. How hypocritical is it to want to bring about a speedy end to pain?

The larger point made here, in both story AND comments is that she achieves what ALL (or MOST... at any rate) LW readers want a cheating spouse to achieve:

A revelation of life changing lesson, learned from arriving at the humble acceptance of the direct and sometimes painful consequences for her actions.

We are led to believe that this story provides the tools and mutal communication of self awareness needed for BOTH of these people to emerge as better people who are more committed to each other than they were before, when the (original) story began.

I still don't think that Don is the better man, here. And I didn't appreciate that he felt like he was doing the "other woman" a favor, by offering sex after her break-up. Oh, he was just being a good friend, right? No, call it what it was: he found the PERFECT canidate with whom to get even, and finally show Lue the error of her ways. This reflects in Don's immediate concession to limit THIS activity, and potentially any future ones. If anything, he IS the better man, but only because he was aware how to make his point, teach Lue her lesson, and move on, back to what was really important. The marriage, NOT the spice!

;)

(LOL, this references another comment YOU made elsewhere today, on a different story, which actually prompted me to your page, and the realization that this chapter had been added to your series)

Anyway, thanks for your time.

It does form a crucial part of Lue's overall story. And 'Lue did become more like Don' in thoughts rather than deeds as time went on. It would have been interesting to see what their reactions would have been if a similar situation had arisen later in their lives. But it didn't, so the deeds part was never tested.

Lue wouldn't agree with your assessment of Don as a lesser man. He admitted that he was using Kylie for his own sexual entertainment, but she was using him too. He was disappointed by Lue's inability to cope, but he accepted it. Lue later also became disappointed by her ability to cope at the time, but what is done is done.

L

I real life her affair with Dip Shit in her own house while her "husband" slept by himself would have ended ANY marriage I know of. Stupid story.

It just shows how few marriages you know of. It takes all types to make a world.

L

and you don't want to face the truth about betrayal and deceit. This characters are not bonded. It's a power struggle and an effort to justify throwing monogamy to the wolves.

Richard Bach and the rest of the 60's/70's aside, the allegation that betrayal is more acceptable in the 21st century is simply not true. 50 years behind the times.

which does put a rather positive and optimistic spin on what can be a very complex set of human relationships.

palewriter, you use the terms "betrayal" and "deceit" which would be at the pejorative and pessimistic end of the spectrum.

Clearly, both are possible. I admit it's not easy to make a marriage that permits extra-marital relationships work well. But I think we should allow that some people do, which is lucky because so many people seem to be trying it. (I have seen all sorts of survey stats, but it seems probable that about one third of married people have wandered in some way or other.)

L

and yes I used betrayal and deceit in a very pejorative sense. Don't you? Are betrayal (see Lue to Lucy to Lue) and deceit positive things. Is the sick power trip of Don in this story positive. Neither are love. Just narcissism and more of Bach's self love to the exclusion of others bullshit.

I was commenting about the comment and the condescension of the commenter who thinks that their little slice of the human experience is the whole wide world. Arrogance.

Sure, write your extra-marital fun and criticize others for submitting stories where it is fun in a monogamous couple. I assume you also laud betrayal in a larger sense including theft and handing your friends over to your enemies.

As far as I can tell both of you are desperate to rationalize your "lifestyle". Lue at least showed some growth. Don on the other hand threw out love for the sake of power and getting his needs met.

All of that is OK and lot's of folks here will enjoy it. But, that is not the norm- except in Australia I guess.

Nice follow up.

What I took away from this is the lue (do not personalize this) didn't give a shit about whether Don would or would not 'get over' her little play time with Ray.

She did it before asking and she went into deep emotional infidelity territory as well. You wrote it. No backing out now.

I am very glad Don did this to his wife. Because Lue could only GUESS what Don was actually feeling (or even, dare I say, in denial over). I am guessing that the Devil will be selling snow cones before Lue thinks particularly hard about cheating again.

But again: I am reminded of one little phrase which creeps into my thoughts when this occurs "I don't mind if you don't matter.'

A wife is a nice thing to have. Having affection, sex on tap, meals and laundry...all good! So one does some physical and emotional maintenance to keep the 'family car' working.

But...there are other cars.

Don should have spent the week up North with Kylie to help her 'settle in'. And Lue fully deserved it if he did.

But I am just happy that Kylie and Don will be at conferences regularly. Kylie...will be around the best sex of her life in a private environment with Don...away from Lue.

I hope she sleeps well. But I truly doubt it. And she brought it on herself. That Djinn doesn't get back in the bottle very easily, does it?

I was tooling through the comments, and something really struck me by something luedon said.

She characterized HER version of thoughts on fidelity as 'mature'. I am sorry. You do not, on your own, get to make the moral designation.

You seem to feel that your way is THE way most people should address these issues. Well, I look to history. We have had thousands of cultures. Lots of different takes on fidelity, marriage, etc.

And what has been the overall consensus of all of history in this experiment in marital relationships? The votes are in: Cheating is always seen as an affront to not only the partner, but society as well. The punishments and repercussions vary, but it is always the same except for a few niche weirdo cultures in Nepal or on the Samoa's

You admit it yourself. You said one woman a week in Australia is killed by a partner. YOUR society has spoken. Infidelity causes VERY BAD FEELINGS! I am guessing that far more women do the exact same emotional damage to their spouses but they are not so passionate in their response.

And, with this wise and open 'mature' view Lue has... does she share it with neighbors and ALL her friends? Does she tell them: "Oh...I don't think fucking around with a married man is any big deal. I've done it before and it didn't hurt ME any..."

No. Lue in the stories wants that VERY private! Because, as stated LUE does not get to choose what is mature. It is an aggregate. And Lue does NOT want her friends and family to know...because she will be shunned. Lue does not honor her word to her husband...so what are the chances that Lue will honor the bargains of OTHER women? She won't. This is part of that social contract. Because to admit this is to admit that Lue is untrustworthy. And as written, she WAS untrustworthy. Or did I miss the part where she told her husband in advance "I am going to fuck Ray. Speak now or forever hold your peace..."

And you go on about 'choosing to feel some way'. I would love for you to expand on that concept. Why do, by your own admission, one Australian girl a week CHOOSE to KNOWINGLY crap on her partner so badly that he is even considers a murderous impulse? They need to own their choices too. You are giving a HUGE pass to these women.

Here is the thing about obsolete contracts...you cancel the old ones and you write new ones if you can't abide by the terms. Did this happen to Lue and Don? Has Don become her 'non-exclusive life partner'? No? Why?

I know...it is because all the rest of us are not as 'enlightened' as Richard Bach. God forbid you consider some alternate hypothesis

I am fully on board with the idea of "Lue lied and cheated...but the family was able to get over it." It happens. I am not perfect either. But do not paint this cheery picture of 'evolving and mature definitions of relationships' to gloss over what actually happened: a selfish arbitrary dismissal of her family. Don did the same, but he gets off lightly because her actions DID redefine the marriage.

And she hated the new terms of the marriage. Ha...HA HA HA.

Maturity is not a moral designation, dipshit. However, characterizing other cultures as "weirdo" makes you the last person to say shit about being judgmental, you prick. Just because one insecure cuck per week lets emotion overrule intellect doesn't mean your moral point has been proven.

And save the history lessons you ignorant fuck, because your lack of knowledge is so profound that educated people wince at reading your nonsense - it might play with the betrayeds of the world, but those of us who even paid attention in HS recoil at your lack of knowledge and reasoning.

Guess what numbnuts, breach of contract no longer invokes the death penalty; stop making idiotic and random analogies that weaken more than strengthen your point. Instead, find a couple good history books and enroll in a continuing education course in Logic.

Judgment: the ability to make considered decisions or come to sensible conclusions.

Yes I am judgmental. What do you do?

I posted this comment but it seems to have become lost in the system.

So here it is again.

If I used "mature" somewhere to make it sound that Lue was superior to mere mortals, then it was my mistake and not what I intended. I do recall using that word to describe (I think it was Studebakerhawk's) comment in which he separated the quality of the writing from the content of the story.

And I certainly do not see the attitude I express through Lue's story as one which should be imposed on others. But I do feel somewhat on the defensive when others tell me that my approach to life is wrong and I shouldn't be like I am. I feel that they would impose their moral stance on me if given the chance.

Now, regarding 'judgemental': Indeed, as does your dictionary FD45, mine gives judgement a variety of positive meanings about the ability to use critical faculties.

But it gives judgemental two meanings:

1. of or concerning or by way of judgement.

2. condemning, critical.

I do occasionally feel that a few comments have fitted into that second definition.

L

I speak in aggregate only. I speak only to the stories when I can because I don't like getting personal. However, occasionally, an author writes a very 'preachy' story (just like some people write 'preachy' comments, so let me give that touche to you right off the bat!)

I don't mean to offend you personally, but if that is a lifestyle which happens to be on sale, I am afraid I am not buying, nor am I interested in normalizing it as a society thing. I believe, even if you don't, that (pick one or both) most people can't handle it/ it is not good for society.

What I CAN offer is enough flexibility to give people their own choices. If I met Lue and Don, and they told me about this little adventure, I'd nod my head, say 'I see' and politely mention that I happen to be pretty monogamous. (I believe I had a set of swinger friends. The offer was very discreet as well...and she also happened to be from Oz. Funny how that worked out. Is that a thing down there?)

Would I cut a friendship over that? No...but I probably wouldn't leave Don around my wife, nor give my wife cause to worry about me spending alone time with Lue.

One can not agree without being disagreeable.

To each his own set of beliefs, so long as they don't try to impose those beliefs on others.

I have become vocal on these forums because there have been some among the moral brigade who have gone beyond simply saying that they disagree with Lue's behaviour as described in my stories. They say it is universally wrong and nobody should behave like this.

I have felt under attack and I suppose I have become defensive.

It's a long stretch from the moral brigade vs adulterers to ISIL beheading people who don't agree with their religious beliefs, but they are on the same continuum. It's called intolerance.

Albert Ellis called it musturbation:

I must do this, I must not do that. Also;

You must do this, You must not do that

L

All sorts of excuses Don uses to justify her philandering, but for him, it hurt her so he'll stop. So it didn't hurt him?

Maybe that's because he doesn't value her the way she values him? But if she valued him, why would she cheat?

This whole relationship is an idealized version of something that would spiral into a murder-suicide in real life.

when the wife fucks around it's all good, when it's the husband then it's wrong. 1/5

I liked this one, and the one line strikes home. It reminds me of a bird, not a Seagull but a Crow. As a young man I found that bird, very young and injured due to someone having hit it in the head with a BB. Unable to fly, I caught it, put it in a cage, doctored it with antibiotic cream and a bit of tape, fed it with Cream of Wheat out of an eye dropper. Also worms and grubs, berries, I had no real idea of what it ate but it ate almost everything I tried. It survived, and one day I set it free, thinking it would fly away.

It didn't leave. It followed me everywhere.

It even followed my in my car to work, sat on the building outside calling. Most times it was either on the edge of my roof or on a limb in a nearby tree. If I left the door open, it would come right into the house. Of course birds do what birds do, after cleaning my luckily leather couch a couple of times I became careful with the front door.

Sometimes I would go outside, hold out my arm and amaze friends when it would fly down and land on my hand, calling loudly for a tidbit of food which I often had in my shirt pocket.

Even free to come and go as it pleased, that bird loved me, bonded. At first I tried to shoo it away, it just flew in a circle and came right back. Crows migrate, this one did not. Finally after what was a very long time, nearly two years and a standing joke amongst my friends, it was gone. I have no idea what happened, but I have to say I looked for quite some time.

Decades later my wife and I went through what happens to so many. Guilt, separation, then finally back to where we belonged. It was sort of like this story with us.

Moments of pleasure, illicit sex does not fill a life.

Life is caring for and about each other.

We both realized where we belonged, I suppose the word is that we... are bonded?

Just like that silly Crow was with me, and I with it.

This one tells our own tale more closely than I ever could.

Thanks,

MGM

you know Don fucked the shit outa her when away on conference. He had to hide it since you manifested your insecurity in such a startling fashion. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

He told her he was ok with what she did, and she believed him because she needed to. Don't think for a moment that he didn't really suffer while he anxiously waited to see whether he had lost her. He chose to keep their marriage together and sacrificed a bit of his pride and self respect to salve her guilty conscience, but in the back of his mind he knew that someday he'd get a chance to give all that pain back to her. He was just too good a guy to selfishly use some other woman for that purpose. It was not until now that he finally got his chance to put her through the same wringer he had been through without hurting - and in fact actually helping - the "other woman."

And the only reason he promised her he'd never do it again was because he'd been keeping an eye out to see if she cheated on him again and she hadn't.

....well after sucking up her lying, infidelity and bringing him home for a romp in the marital bed.

My response? "Oh, well." I had to be OK with your fuckfest or risk losing you altogether. The tables have turned, dear. Suck it up.

Of course, you wrote him as caring more about her feelings than about his and his paramour's fun.....clearly the more adult of the two. She ran out and fucked around for purely selfish reasons, she threw it in his face in his own home and had the comfort of knowing he would stick by her. But she was cruel and selfish, nonetheless.

I think I agree with other requests for a "review" of things from hubby's POV.

It might be enlightening, I'd you can avoid the mistake of making him too understanding and forgiving, philosophy notwithstanding. I would have a hard time believing a character that removed from normal human behavior.

I also think he should fuck Kylie again a few times while at seminars, as she struggles to regain her footing.

Ya, wifey won't like it, won't cope, blah, blah, blah. If there is no parity, it is not a marriage. And what now prevents her from going at it again with some younger stud she happens across at the grocery or post? Nothing. So she got it out of her system, or has matured to the point she sees the fallacies and dangers inherent in extramarital behavior. But I still maintain that for her to object and fall apart when he has one afternoon with a younger woman, she is again on the slippery slope to forced solitude.

Not really my kind of story, this pair. I don't agree with the whole JLS approach. Any extramarital intimacy on the part of either spouse is a time bomb and a potential for the worst kind of tragedy in modern times....that two people start out in love and with high hopes, then a few years later find it more convenient to end it.

Bullshit!

If they weren't willing to be bound to one another through good times and bad and weren't willing to put the other first and to communicate and work together on anything that allowed the marriage to stale in any way, they should not have and were fools to marry at all. Really, what would have been the point?

In the last 5 years I've seen a dozen young couples marry and divorce within 18 months. In every case, they were (usually the young woman) unwilling to work at it and sacrifice to make it work. They decided that "just hanging out" was better. I suppose those occasions where "hanging out" included sex, that was also easier, since they both got to return to their self absorbed lives in their flats with no burdens or complications. Sad.

In several cases the young women apparently entered their marriage as virgins and found sex "icky". God only knows what they were comparing it to!

"Moments of pleasure, illicit sex does not fill a life. Life is caring for and about each other." I agree wholeheartedly.

Caring requires work. And I am constantly amazed at the number of stories and comments in the Loving Wives section where the instant response to one partner's "moment of pleasure, illicit sex" is to at least abandon the marriage, probably to wreak horrible revenge, rather than do the necessary work.

MGM, I did like your story of the young crow. I think it was Konrad Lorenz who did a lot of the work on imprinting? Young humans are also very dependent and like your crow wouldn't survive without an adult to care for them. But we grow out of that. Adult relationships of "caring for and about each other" are far more satisfying than relationships of dependency.

The Jonathan Livingston Seagull story was, in its time, a statement about self-actualisation. It was very much the thing in the 1970s and I suspect that Western society has lost a lot of the better aspects of what we were on about in those days.

L

"You're a free person and I can't control what you do just like you can't control what I do."

That's Jonathan Livingston Seagull speak for, "Someday there will be payback, bitch."

was a book about rationalizing narcissism or minimizing the social contract and social responsibility and that completely explains why we are in our current straits.

The book sold extremely well in the 1970s and I think that most readers saw it as a book about striving to achieve a level of perfection rather than one of self-centredness.

L

But it was about not letting conventional thinking about limit one's aspirations for HIGHER goals. The seagull's desire was to achieve more perfect flight, not a way to cheat the other gulls out of their food.

This story and the previous set a loving example of how to cope in the real world of marriage. I am moved by the sacrifice and give and take of the couple. No,it's not easy to deal with infidelity and surrounding emotions in a rational way. This story is one of the rare finds that evenly covers both sides of the equation. Five large stars

You are one of the few commentators who have recognised the viewpoint I have been writing from. As you say: "it's not easy to deal with infidelity and surrounding emotions".

Don decided to not be hurt by Lue's infidelity. In his mental framework of personal freedoms, the fact that Lue had done something and 'not bothered to tell him about it' was not a hanging offense. Lue, on the other hand, felt excitement tinged with guilt until Don granted his permission. From then on it was just excitement until "I don't need it any more."

Selfish? Yes, of course. She recognised that. But she "also felt more like a complete woman, not just a wife and mother" which had fuelled her insecurities before all this happened.

Later on (in this second story) the "guilt came crashing down" until Don once again stepped in to try to convince her that it had been OK.

Lue, in this second story, still hadn't fully internalised Don's 'seagull philosophy'. There is a difference between mentally recognising the logic of something and living it. Thus she decided to be hurt by Don's liaison with Kylie.

But they both survived and learned from their experiences. As you say, it isn't easy to live the give-and-take that is so necessary in the world of marriage. But some don't bother to try. As I have said elsewhere, we see the lack of respect for marriage depicted in so many stories and comments in the Loving Wives section. At the first whiff of a wife doing something extra-marital she must at least be abandoned, probably punished severely, and even made to suffer dreadful retribution.

L

Will Lue ever internalize the Seagull philosophy to the point where the next time Don and another woman appear to have potential interest in each another she'll be able to tell him it's ok for him to explore it, or must she now forever live with the realization that she's a hypocrite because she cannot live up to Don's example?

An interesting question. One wonders what would have happened if the belief had been tested further. I would like to believe that Lue could have lived the philosophy if a further situation had occurred.

Living a philosophy requires much more commitment than just believing it. Somebody somewhere recently (Chloe Tzang ?) made reference to the old story about the role of the hen and the pig in eggs and bacon. The hen is involved. The pig is committed.

L

I always read the comments before I read a story, it gives me a good idea weather or not I will like it, and once I see Anony comments that the story is shit or your wife is a slut, I know I will love the story, even before I read it. 5 ******* Stars my friend.

I am not and never will be an Anony. Because most are closet cucks I believe.

Don showed much more class and respect than lue.

First he didn't have sex with lover till wife left the house.

Secondly lover didn't send husband back with hickeys to try humiliate spouse.

Third he didn't turn spouse down for intamacy, then say im my lover's only tonight.

Fourth Lue let lover take her doggy and drive bed against the wall to humiliate husband, and make sure anyone around new he owned her for that moment of time.

Fifth he didn't leave remnants of sex around for spouse to wash.

If lue was willing to do all that she has no right to ever get upset.

Lue doesn't deserve don, from her actions.

"Important though that was, there is so much more to a marriage than just sex. A little while after my affair came to an end, I looked back and guilt crashed down on me. What I had done was wrong."

Why are you so desperate to convince us otherwise? A marriage is more than sex. It's about trust, respect and real love. Obviously you didn't trust Don. So to not hurt you he hide all his affairs... What you don't know won't hurt you. Right? 

"As well as that, I couldn't clear my mind of thoughts about the risks I had taken. I could have lost the man and the family I loved, and it would have served me right."

Yes it would have. And for what? 

"Don was lovingly supportive; he helped me through my guilt. He continued to express the belief that what I did was not wrong. It was good for us and we couldn't have kept going as we were before Ray came on the scene. "Don't blame yourself. What you did was not wrong. Somebody had to do something. You did it and I'm glad you did.""

Don's such a wuss. To bad the somebody that had to do something wasn't Don. 

"My responses to you in the early stories were from me as I am now, justifying what Lue did back then."

How do you justify the unjustifiable?

", indeed I did try to explain the emotions that one insecure woman can go through. Her insecurity in the early stories was of herself as an attractive woman. "

So? If a husband has a mid-life crisis of self doubt you'd accept his doing what you did? All this crap is about me, me, me and only me. Not one fucking thing about what you do for anyone else. Totally self centered.  No one in the world matters but you. Not Julie, not Ray, not Dan, not Kylie, nobody else but your own feelings matter. 

"She obtained confirmation from her affair that she was "sexy and desirable".

Don't kid your self that men don't need the same confirmation.   

" In this story the insecurity was more complex. She was never going to lose her husband, but I tried to show the mood swings from self-pity to rational acceptance."

Don't be too sure of that, that you couldn't have lost your husband to a younger woman. Happens all the time. 

", not only are loves not the same, but they change over the years. The person you married is not the person you are married to today."

How true. My wife isn't the slim hot blond I married. I should trade her in on a younger sleeker  model. 

", a country of 23 million people, we have one woman killed per week by an aggrieved partner or ex-partner. It is an epidemic of partner intolerance."

And just how tolerant are women of men that cheat? How tolerant were you? 

With regard to fidelity why do you presume men should be more tolerant unless women, such as yourself, were going to be just as tolerant of her man's affairs? 

 (Lue did, however, encourage a couple of friends to do a few unusual things.)

Oh great... Maybe those are stories with reading... How many ended up dead or in broken marriages or with nasty STDs? 

", I'm sorry for you that you're not lenient towards adultery. That probably means that you are intolerant of perhaps a third of the married population. ... My guiding principle is 'don't hurt anybody'. If somebody has a relationship outside marriage and nobody gets hurt by it, that's fine by me."

And 50 percent of marriages end in divorce. Maybe all the cheating and self centeredness has something to do with it. 

As to hurting others my daughter found out her husband was cheating because he gave her a nasty STD. Fortunately for her and him curable with antibiotics. So please hold the crap about all this extra marital fucking around not hurting people. It destroys families. I used to think my son-in-law was a great guy. Now I know he's really just a piece of shit. 

" is fd45 that stupid?

.... However, characterizing other cultures as "weirdo" makes you the last person to say shit about being judgmental, you prick. "

Fuck you you clueless moron anon... Cultures can and should be judged. Some are obviously superior to others. 

"Just because one insecure cuck per week lets emotion overrule intellect doesn't mean your moral point has been proven."

What you meant to say is because one immature slut per week  totally lacking in self control so badly abuses her supposedly significant other that it drives him to the insanity of blowing her away.... that seems to make the case against cheating as moral reprehensible. 

Why cheat? Just end it and move on - honorably. People cheat because they want their cake and eat it too. Right Lue? They want the dear old hubby they can fall back on all the while make him a cuckold. 

"And save the history lessons you ignorant fuck, because your lack of knowledge is so profound that educated people wince at reading your nonsense - it might play with the betrayeds of the world, but those of us who even paid attention in HS recoil at your lack of knowledge and reasoning."

So profoundly written. Did somebody have to help you with the big word? Perhaps you can enlighten us to all that history. You dumb ignorant fucktard.

"Guess what numbnuts, breach of contract no longer invokes the death penalty;"

How about passing on a fatal STD? How about adultery having the same penalties as rape? And yes I'm for rape having a death penalty. So there fart breath with lint for brains. Yea light of brain, lump of foul deformity, foot-licker, you idol of idiot-worshippers! (the insults really help an argument don't they). 

"... But I do feel somewhat on the defensive when others tell me that my approach to life is wrong and I shouldn't be like I am. I feel that they would impose their moral stance on me if given the chance."

Nobody can impose their morality upon you any more than you can stop Don from screwing other women. Or he could stop you from screwing other men. Only you can control your behavior. 

"I have become vocal on these forums because there have been some among the moral brigade who have gone beyond simply saying that they disagree with Lue's behaviour as described in my stories. They say it is universally wrong and nobody should behave like this."

It's universally wrong, by your own admission, because you didn't want done to you what you did to Don. (I am using you and Lue as one and the same). 

"It's a long stretch from the moral brigade vs adulterers to ISIL beheading people who don't agree with their religious beliefs, but they are on the same continuum. It's called intolerance."

Tolerance is a two way street except in your world. Don must tolerate your cheating but you have/had no tolerance for his. Rather intolerant that and on that continuum, n'est-ce pas? 

"Albert Ellis called it musturbation:

I must do this, I must not do that. Also;

You must do this, You must not do that"

Exactly. The "contract" with my wife is what she is allowed to do, I am allowed to do. What I am not allowed to do, she is not allowed to do. No double standard, the same rules for  both. We "must" not break the rules and we "must" abide by the rules. Musturbation. :)

"Caring requires work. And I am constantly amazed at the number of stories and comments in the Loving Wives section where the instant response to one partner's "moment of pleasure, illicit sex" is to at least abandon the marriage, probably to wreak horrible revenge, rather than do the necessary work."

Once again why should I care if my wife decides she doesn't have to play by the "rules" we mutually (and yes before God, our family and friends) agreed to? If she unilaterally and without notice decides to modify the "rules" why shouldn't I have the same privilege? If she can do as she pleases so can I. If she doesn't care about my feeling I sure don't care about hers. 

"Don decided to not be hurt by Lue's infidelity."

Do you know perfectly what's in another persons head? How the hell do you know how much you hurt him? Maybe he just buried it deep within and never lets it get to the surface?  Gad... What Don tells you and what he really feels may be two entirely different things. Ever consider that? No. Because life is all about your self-actualization. I thought you might be a sociopath, your being an atheist explains a lot. 

But the truth is your universal wrong is how you reacted to Don's infidelity. He just hide his hurt better than you. I find women like you disgusting. It's ok for you to have an affair for all the reason you listed but when your husband decides to not be your-one-and-only it's not ok. Talk about double standards. You are lucky Don cares more about your feeling than you did about his. Have him write up his side of the affairs. 

Better yet write up a story just like these only reverse the gender roles. How hubby strays and it improves the marriage when the little woman finds out. 

"At the first whiff of a wife doing something extra-marital she must at least be abandoned, probably punished severely, and even made to suffer dreadful retribution."

More bullshit. Because that is exactly what happens to most men when they do "something extra-marital". The wife rapes them in court, walks away with more than half the assets, gets child support, alimony and freedom to fuck around. Given today's world I can't see why any guy would be stupid enough to get married. Always be ready to bail. Have an exit plan and keep the money separate. 

The rules in a marriage, as far as I'm concerned, need to be the same for both partners. And the consequences for breaking those rules, vows, promises, contract, need to be the same too. Burn the bastard or the bitch. Or both get to play... But it has to be the same. 

To many men their wife's affair has a similar emotional impact as rape. I've had some men say they'd rather be raped than have their wife cheat on them. To be betrayed by some one I loved and trusted with my life and that I thought loved me - well I can't I imagine anything much worse. It would kinder if she'd just plunge a knife into my heart. One woman cheated on her husband. She came home one day, with their kids, and found he'd hung himself in the back yard - and of course the bitch blamed him for being weak. I guess he was. He should have sucked it up like Don and been a happy cuck. Women... Geeezus

LW certainly gets people stirred up! Is marriage still important? LW readers seem to think so! Marriage is always a public matter, and that's why people get married before of a crowd of family and friends to make their most significant (sacred?) vows to each other and, as many believe, to God. So breaking those vows is a big deal and a matter of public concern, inasmuch as it affects many more than just the married couple. If those vows mean anything, then their breaking by one partner does not allow the other partner to break their own vows at some future date. No "even Steven" nonsense. But justice must be tempered with mercy, and I would never criticize anyone who forgave a wayward partner rather than opting for divorce.

Richard Bach's "Jonathan Livingstone Seagull" was indeed a big pop psychology hit back in the '70's, and indeed many of us thought it was a wonderful paean to personal freedom and self-discovery. I find, though, with the passage of time that it was embarrassingly trite and shallow, and more a paean to vanity, narcissism, and selfishness. If anything, there is too much of that today, not too little.

True, Tennesseered. I really do appreciate the more thoughtful ones. To pick up a couple of the points you made:

The inviolability of a marriage agreement is interesting. Conditions change over the period of a marriage (after 50+ years of marriage I think I am qualified to say that). Lue's failing was to not re-negotiate that agreement before she wandered with Ray.

"Payback" is something some comments have assumed. It was not my intent to portray that in the story. Don felt that the agreement had changed and both partners understood that. He wasn't 'getting even'.

The 'seagull philosophy' was not, as some commentators have assumed, a promotion of selfishness. It proposed tolerance of others' freedoms. Like so many other philosophies it can be taken to extremes. One might hope we learned from all those things we tried and have moved on.

L

I found it to be a very enjoyable story, thoughtful and well-written. Five stars.

It constantly amazes me that so many of the readers of these stories take this stuff so seriously, as if it were real life, and that these characters are real people that the reader is entitled and even obligated to judge. Additionally, these judgments are meted out, not on the basis of the quality of the writing, but on the moral decisions of the characters. This is an erotic story site, not a window into a terrifying reality, or a mirror reflecting the reader's personal hell!

After reading some of the comments, (usually by "anonymous"), I am struck and truly concerned by how seemingly threatened and angry some of these lost souls appear to be. I believe that something is seriously wrong with the minds and spirits of these readers, that they consume, not for enjoyment, but for an opportunity to viciously lash out, immune from retribution or directed criticism. Are their lives so narrow, are they so weak and powerless, that they are driven to come here to vomit forth their pre-adolescent tantrums and junior-high morality in a venue that provides mostly mediocre stroke stories?

Apparently so.

Well written and who gives a crap if people are offended by the concept.

Just wanted to note the comment section for this story contains numerous thought provoking analyses. I have always enjoyed walking around the elephant before making decision or deterinations.

Seagul question that has long perplexed me. Did person do the setting free or was that a clever protective way of stating she left me?

In the third story in the trilogy, The Husband's Story.

Lue

You could have let him take viagra and have sex for a few hours. I wished the wife could have agonize a little more, considering the length of her affair. He had a 22 year old woman, he could have at least done it again Friday night or Saturday morning. Let wife sleep in guest bedroom room. I enjoyed the story and gave it high marks. Very well written!

🤢 barf gagging puke. -2

i think not there is her and he is just an idiot, me thinks it is the same way the authors are in real live.

You're lucky Don has a hell of a set of blinders on him.

To me in a lot of ways. 5 stars from me. (ANYTHING that gets me to comment gets 5 stars from me! Maybe my own ego? ;-)

I am old enough to have lived as an adult thru the '70's and I read "Games People Play" and other pop-psy transactional analysis books and also Bach's "Jonathan Livingston Seagull. Never got into EST though or some of the other fads. "The Americans", kind of a weird "loving wives" at-it's-core spy series on Fox - married Russian spies living as NOC's in America during the '80's - incorporates an EST subplot. "Semi-Tough" the movie with Burt Reynolds does it's own funny parody of an EST type seminar situation.

I have to admit I never quite "got" Jonathan Livingston Seagull. The major problem for me (that I never realized consciously until MUCH later in life) is that "Seagull" focuses almost exclusively on the "individual" part of being human - when at least HALF of being a well-balanced human being is the SOCIAL part. We are all individuals trapped very much into being a social species. We get married because we are SOCIAL - not self-absorbed individuals, only. And "real love" is expecting those we love to treat us with love as well - including honoring our vows of faithfulness on both sides of the equation for everyone.

At least your female protagonist here realizes how very important this social aspect of humanity is - not just the focus on "Seagull" type freedom and "self-actualization." Her husband is more psychopath than normal if he really did blithely accept her infidelity, once, without suffering a lot of pain. At least as much as she herself now suffers. Her feelings are very, very normal. To "rise above it all" in reaction (no vengeance but even forgiveness) can be noble. To NOT feel the pain is just - not normal, IMHO. I need to read the preceding story, I guess, now. Thanks for writing and posting here.

Maybe not only the preceding story but also the succeeding Husband's Story will explain a little more.

The 60s and 70s were times of psychological and sociological exploration. Sadly, things closed down in the 80s when greed is good took over economically and AIDS frightened everybody sexually.

The difference between Lue&Don's stories compared with the usual LW stories was that Don didn't see Lue's infidelity as 'wrong', so there was nothing to seek revenge for (as in BTB) or to forgive her for (as in RAAC). He also had time to come to terms with what she was doing, even though she had not been open and honest about it.

The crunch came in this story which you have read, when Lue was put to the test and couldn't cope as Don had done.

Thanks for reading and commenting.

Lue

This seems like a really honest story, like it actually happened. I've been in a similar situation and it was kind of like that. It's great to see such candid writing on here.

Don't complain about Kylie when you kept your affair with Ray going until it burned itself out. Don should have continued to fuck the beautiful 22 year old Kylie until she found another lover. Perhaps Lou you might be so jealous that you leave Don at which point he should marry Kylie and make her his beautiful energetic wife.

There is no doubt Lue was hypocritical, CaOldDog. That was sad.

But Don wasn't getting even, he was just doing what he thought was OK because he had explained his philosophy to Lue. There was no need and no thought on his part to continue the liaison with Kylie. More is explained in 'The Husband's Story'. (It's in Non-Erotic.)

And Klinsing, re your 'Nice, Honest' comment. You say that you have had a somewhat similar situation. May I encourage you to submit a story? LW needs more variety in the stories.

Lue

Thanks, Lue, I am, in fact, trying to finish one and hope to post soon.

Thanks for your amazingly insightful comment Anonymouse. It sounds rather similar in tone to the nonsense spewed by a 'lady' who once identified herself as KP.

I was rather surprised that you detected my subtle inclusion of what you describe as "the writer spent lots of time emphasizing the big cocks and loads of cum".

For the enlightenment of less perceptive readers, would you please be good enough to spell out the page and paragraph numbers where I did this. They may have some difficulty finding it, since neither the word 'cock' nor the word 'cum' appears anywhere in the text of the story.

But us Freaking Retard authors can be very sneaky when placing subliminal messages within our stories, so you might have to use the highlight pen to help others find what only you have been able to detect so far.

Thanks for being so helpful,

Lue

Most of the time I wait until I've read all the chapters in a series before commenting. I wish I'd done that this time...but I was anxious.

“He took me back in spite of what I was doing. I had initially lied and hidden my unfaithfulness.” This sentence is very satisfying to me. People make mistakes, errors of judgement. It shows good character that they can acknowledge that, and the harm they may have caused. It doesn't fix everything, but it goes a long way toward showing good intent.

I must be morally or emotionally stunted. I don't see the hypocrisy that others are finding here. It's hardly hypocrisy if Lue acknowledges her unfair reaction, and she did. She didn't beat Don up with it, she merely confessed it. Don's reaction to Lue's infidelity was his, Lue's was hers. Both were honest. Lue took her lumps, briefly went to pieces and then dealt with it. Your characters show remarkable poise and restraint, I think. This must be a reflection of your own character.

I wrote on my comment on the first story that it was Don's attitude that saved the day. I rethought that later and wished I'd written: Of course it isn’t just Don’s attitude that saved your marriage. It’s also you being who you are. You were clearly worthy of the gift he gave you. And in the end, it only matters what Don and you decide about your affair. Everyone else’s opinion- including mine- is just noise. Being able to ask for advice or guidance at need is a great quality, but you two didn’t need it.

I enjoyed reading both stories, and clearly so did the debate club! Thanks for another great read, Lue.

At least this is a story.

Different perspective of wife catching husband in the act then her outrage is moderated by her own, prior infidelity.

But I agree. Don't know that I could do this either. Or feel that it would be right. And this just a liason, not an affair.

Luedon does a good job of capturing the emotional complexities and contradictions of open and other-than-monogamous relationships. In my very limited knowledge of them its easy for them to blow up because of one partner's insecurities and fears - however unspoken.

The wife cheated on Don, had a protracted affair, and rubbed his face in her infidelity. The hypocritical bitch then fell apart after he slept with Kylie once, but that poor bastard had to endure her fucking Ray for twelve weeks!

"Don't tell me that you weren't comparing her with me while you were fucking her."

Tighter pussy, nubile young body, no stretch marks or cellulite, strikingly beautiful face, more energetic in bed, totally besotted with him... No, of course he wasn't comparing them, and finding his worthless wife coming up short in every single regard.

In reality, Don would leave his unfaithful wife for the smoking hot 22-year-old that had fallen in love with him. There is no way this wouldn't end in divorce under those circumstances. Kylie would have a wedding ring on her finger and be knocked up with Don's baby within the year.

This paragon of virtue was merely educating this naive young lady and providing her with the necessary sexual skill to keep the next boyfriend so that he wouldn't go west like Greg did. He was providing a service, not satisfying his own sexual desires.

Lue

"He was providing a service, not satisfying his own sexual desires."

And while he was servicing her, he'd be noticing just how much better she was than his wife in every single way. Men are visual creatures; seeing a gorgeous 22-year-old impaled on his cock would satisfy the hell out of his sexual desire.

The only way the husband wouldn't pick Kylie over his unfaithful wife was if he was a simpering cuckold. But then again, he did put up with Lue openly slutting around with Ray for twelve weeks. Only the most pathetic of pitiful men would endure that kind of appalling disrespect and humiliation.

To be serious for a moment (which doesn't always come easily).

True, in the dictionary sense Don is a cuckold. He is the husband of a woman who has committed adultery. But in the LW sense he is not a 'cuck'. He is not getting any sexual pleasure himself from her adultery, nor is he being submissive or subservient.

Sex has three purposes - Recreational, Procreational and Relational. So long as it's only Recreational as it was between Lue and Ray and between Don and Kylie, it's no deal-breaker so far as Don is concerned.

Lue was the confused one. She thought it was more than recreational and just a bit of variety with Ray. But she later realised that it was nothing more than a fling and a hope on her part to retrieve a feeling of being a sexy young thing and not "just a wife and mother".

Maybe Don was just being kind when Lue said that she couldn't compete with a 22-year-old and Don said Lue was better. But good relational sex beats recreational sex every time, and they'd done the procreational bit as well.

No competition, really.

Lue

"But in the LW sense he is not a 'cuck'."

He wasn't slurping out her creampies, but he came pretty damn close.

"nor is he being submissive or subservient."

Oh come on! Lue treated Don like absolute shit and he just put up with all the disrespect and the humiliation. He's about as pathetic a gimpy submissive as he can be, short of guiding Ray's cock into his wife.

Don allowed the wife to fuck her boyfriend in his own home! He gave up the marital bed for her to fuck her lover, while he went off to sleep alone in the guest room. She let the lover give her love bites to taunt the husband that he'd fucked his woman... and Lue turned down sex with her husband because she wanted to be with Ray instead!

No normal man would put up with that. You would have to be a seriously disturbed individual to actively condone your wife cheating on you. Just like a cuckold would.

"But good relational sex beats recreational sex every time"

If that were true, why would men and women cheat on loving partners?

The wife in your story cheated on her husband because it was more exciting being with Ray than it was being with Don. Lue only stopped out of guilt, because her piece-of-shit lover was cheating on his pregnant wife and the poor woman had just given birth to the baby.

The truth is that it's exciting fucking someone new for the first time. If you're cheating as well, then there's the added rush of doing something naughty and taboo. If your lover is a gorgeous girl half your age, it makes it ten times more thrilling!

Don might enjoy having sex with his middle-aged wife, despite her sagging tits, cellulite and middle-aged spread. He loves the mother of his children and they have a long history together. However that's never going to compete with the heart-pounding thrill of fucking a nubile sexpot young enough to be his daughter.

Consider these scenarios:

Scenario 1: A 45 year-old man is cheating on his brunette wife with a stunning 22 year-old blonde. She's never had a man go down on her before, so he decides to blow her mind, giving her a g-spot massage as he sucks her clit. She cums her brains out, then looks at him in awe like he's a sex god. The boost to his ego is better than crack.

Scenario 2: The gorgeous young blonde has fallen head-over-heels for her experienced older lover and she offers him her anal virginity. He takes his time getting her ready, then gently breaks her in, making sure to stimulate her clit so she gets off too. They finish at the same time, with him unloading inside her gloriously firm ass as she screams out his name in ecstasy. She cuddles up with him afterwards, slightly embarrassed at how much she loved it, but deeply satisfied after an intense orgasm. He knows that she'll never forget giving up her ass to him; she'll fondly remember that experience for the rest of her life.

Scenario 3: The young lover has been bragging to her BFF about her amazing older lover for weeks. She decides to give her lover a treat and brings her BFF to bed with them for the cheating husband's first threesome. He takes them in turn as they sixty-nine, filling up their tight young pussies with spunk and watching them lick each other out afterwards. He finishes with the two beautiful girls on their knees, their lust-filled eyes gazing up at him as he glazes their pretty faces with his load. Afterwards they lie together in bed, his nubile lovers cuddled up with him, content and satiated. He's never felt more powerful and dominant... satisfying not just one, but two gorgeous girls.

Do you honestly think that tediously-familiar sex between that guy and his wife would remotely compare to the sheer excitement of any of those scenarios?

"Maybe Don was just being kind when he said Lue was better."

Don was an experienced older guy giving the sexy young girl the benefit of his expertise. Scenario 1 actually featured in Don and Kylie's escapades (and probably scenario 2)... so there's no doubt he was lying his ass off to his wife.

And there isn't a chance in hell Don would give that up... No man would, not when his slut wife owed him for the 12 weeks of debauchery she shoved in his face.

"but we'll keep it professional."

lol. Yeah, sure you will sweetheart. Kylie had her world rocked by champion sexpert Don and now she's fallen for him. She just found out that Lue cheated on him 2 years earlier, thereby erasing any guilt she might have felt for continuing the affair with Lue's husband. Don will be balls-deep in Kylie again the next time they meet... guaranteed. If Kylie springs scenario 3 on Don, Lue might as well get used to being a single mom.

"Recreational sex isn't a deal breaker?" Maybe not for Don, but for most men, and probably women, too, it is, at least when done behind the spouse's back.

Isn't most cheating (and, yes, if done w/o the spouse's knowledge and approval, it is cheating), recreational?

Who needs stories when we have PowerSworder's comments?

Well done, sir. Your imagination exceeds mine.

Lue

Recreational vs Procreational vs Relational sex and the emotional difference between them is often mentioned in LW stories without the actual differences being explored in any way. The ready dismissal by the commentariat of the statement in a story "It was only sex, dear, it's you I really love" is the obvious example.

The sex is physically the same, but emotionally it's entirely different.

I would have great difficulty in coping with a spouse who went into a true loving relationship with somebody else and tried to conduct that relationship as well as the loving relationship with me. But is having recreational sex with somebody else all that much different to doing any other recreational activity with them?

Some time ago, Kimi commented on another story and explained that polyamorous relationships can be successful. I doubt that I could cope with that, but she can. I can cope with a wandering spouse so long as the wanderings are recreational only. To each her own.

Lue

in my experience recreational sex is exciting, taboo and gives you the chance to explore new sexual avenues that for one reason or another you would not do with your long-time partner(LTP) The main reason for this is that you sexually grow with your long-term partner usually from a very sexually inexperienced starting point ( Lue & Don were both virgins) and are embarrassed or frightened to bring up what could be described as fetishes with your LTP. Yes you get mutual experience with your LTP but it is usually somewhat channelled. With recreational sex you learn new ways to do the same function from other people and sometimes completely new sexual things that you and your LTP may not have considered for different reasons. I have a saying "i will try anything (almost) twice!" The first time is to get rid of the Yuk factor for example a woman performing oral sex on a man may well baulk at him coming in her mouth the first time ( that is a simple one) but with practice may enjoy it. Other advantages of this type of recreational sex is the spouse who tries it may find someone who will do the things that their LTP definitely will not do! Thus giving them the chance of enjoying something they want to try but cannot in their long-term relationship.

However there is usually no love in the recreational sex which makes it more of a physical experience rather than an emotional one. For all the different enjoyable experiences and different things tried over the years they do not compare to the emotional experience of "love making" with my LTP .

I felt that both " Lue to Lucy" and "Wounded Seagull" were brilliantly written and a first class description of the feelings and emotions of both partners. The characters were brilliantly brought out!!! More please

I agree with your analysis. The relationship with the LTP is a loving and developing one if it is successful, but that can also be limiting. The 'bit of variety' can be experimental and naughty. (The term 'bit of variety' came from Anneke in Don's story in Non-erotic, which gives some background to the Lue to Lucy stories.)

You mention character development. Of my stories, my favourite character is Billie in 'Scarred'. She grew as the story developed, and I really liked her in the end.

Lue

The idea of " a bit of variety" is basically not a bad thing. The problem the spouse who has tried the bit of variety and found a new sex experience that they think their spouse would enjoy ( or being selfish they want to enjoy with/from their spouse) is how to bring it into the LTR without letting on where it came from . This is because in most LTR's the bit of variety is a secret as most partners would not accept their spouse cheating. It is a challenge on how to introduce it into an LTR where the spouses have been together for a long time from an age of mutual inexperience. Well that is how it was in the 60s in the UK. Nowadays, thanks to the internet and the huge amount of pornography displaying virtually every sex act, legal or illegal you can always use that as an excuse of where the idea came from. This has come from personal experience as someone who did try the "but of variety" several times whilst in an LTR. It did not mean that I didn't love my wife but craved for knowledge and experience to make sex more enjoyable but although the variety experiences were enjoyable it did not have the emotional connection but then again that in some ways was a benefit. What is your view? I know this does not put me in a good light with some but I am being honest and trying to be constructive.

So the wife has an affair that lasted for 12 fukkin weeks but hubby has sex with the other girl and the wifey breaks down. Talk about fair play.