All Comments on 'Opening Up'

This is much better then median Loving Wives submission. I don't rank it with Swinger Joe's best in terms of grabbing me by lapels and making me feel the highs and lows of S.J. 's designated narrator. I do admire the pacing and twist/ reveal at the end. Trust but verify is my personal credo , but apparantly not the narrator's and he got singed.

I'm riffing, but would venture a tremulous guess that Swinger Joe's dynamic oft divisive persona that we know in Loving Wives is a bit at odds with ' go with flow ' lead character . He's too good of a writer to turn anything close to a clunker, but wasn't totally feeling Thomas. Does it really cost a bundle for amicable divorce ? Sigh.

The nice guy really took it on chin this time . ' The Red Queen ' goes into considerable deph on advantages and drawbacks of fitting that kinder, gentler , more credulous mold. This story was an object lesson on one of drawbacks. At least no fictional kids lost a parent in split and splatter of crushed marriage.

I like the flutter of hope given with Matt meeting Samantha at supermarket. He deserves a break. Matt 's a nice guy afterall. I thank Swinger Joe for sharing.

In my own, personal, experience....swinging does not end well. It is alright to do it before you are married, but when one is married it gets much more difficult. The jealousy can come much quicker, and the hurt comes and hits so much harder. It is deeper and affects in ways that until one experiences it it cannot be fully known. In my humble opinion, why chance it?

Sincerely,

Payenbrant

But I fail to understand how 2 people who are in a relationship and they are supposed to give their all to each other and yet they still find that they cant make it work, so how is adding more people into the equation and splitting up all resources(time, emotions, libido etc) supposed to make their relationship stronger??

Why not just work harder or split up and cut your losses???

_Wes.

I also thought it was a well-told story by one of the most competent authors in the Loving Wives genre. As usual, it was that bit different and so much better than the average LW story.

As Joe has said elsewhere, his concern is not the extra-marital sex, but the honesty in the relationship. He illustrates it nicely here.

L

Thats a nice story, I am not in open relationships. If you want to fuck somebody else, Then break up and do it

In my experience open marriages only work mostly for one partner to give them an excuse to screw around,usually this ends up badly,divorce,loss of trust aso,jaleousy will kick in at some point and the damage is done,the question is is it all worth it ??

A fantasy yes but the actual thing. Pretty tough to get over that, all the dangers. He was pretty stupid in this story and probably deserved what he got even though she was already cheating on him before he gave her consent to fuck other men.

I hope Samantha comes over to help Thomas eat his cake, then reveal she had a little crush on him for awhile. That was why she volunteered to be the mystery plus one for initial celebratory menage a trois arranged by Meagan . They eat that cake and cut another few slices off another one .... at their wedding two years later. No loss without some gain.

Meagan becomes avid biker chick in New Mexico and filed suit in Federal Court for the right to marry her Harley(s).

Well written story about a husband having a ring carefully attached to his nose, a tether being attached and led in the required direction.

What they deserved. ...Sad but true

Fooled me. Well done.

that no lifestyle, or marital arrangement can easily survive lies and deceit. I read the other day that the main reason for divorce was contempt. In this story, the wife showed contempt, perhaps unknowingly, for her husband.

While I don't personally go for open relationships, you made this fair. The wife didn't have the respect for her husband to tell the truth and paid a severe price. 4*, + 1* for the neat ending.

In short, you can kill a marriage pretty easily. Sometimes you luck out and meet someone new, other times you spend the remainder of your days alone and unwanted.

The sad truth is that it didn't matter if she lied to him or not, he allowed her to cheat on him regardless if it was one person or a dozen, he gave her the permission she needed. Lesson learned for both of them.

Just enough foreshadow to bring the story full circle. Nicely done

No need to read.

It's always a pile of shit.

Nice twist at the end.

@harddaysknight: I guess we both read the same article.

..... and I found that to be true. Meagan and I settled amicably, split our property fairly and evenly, and went our separate ways, and it cost us a bundle in lawyer's fees to do so.

Not so. My ex and I worked out an agreement at the kitchen table. I gave it to my lawyer to write up in legalese. She had her lawyer review it and then we signed the papers. Total legal fees for both lawyers was under 3K.

Clever planning by the ladies and resultant last paragraph makes the world right.

Was I wrong going by this tale! A thoughtful rendering of the story of two people's relationship regardless of whether you approve of it or not. One's all in for the other, but the other's not quite all in, just partially. Therefore the downfall of the marriage. Well told and written. It's prompted me to read some of your other stories.

Too bad you're too thin skinned to allow scoring as I'm sure this would score well.

You say: "The sad truth is that it didn't matter if she lied to him or not"

I thought that was the point. She lied to him when she said that she was having sex with random men. She was actually having a love affair. Also, she had started the affair before she instituted the open relationship.

The marriage would have survived (perhaps with some difficulty) if she was just doing what she said she was doing. It was the lying that the first-person character couldn't tolerate.

L

Yes, Whackdoodle seems to have missed the entire point of the story.

Let's say my wife were to promise me to never go through my wallet, but then came to me one day asking permission to do so. If I give her permission, does it mean she broke that promise?

To guys like Whackdoodle (and MANY others in this section), there is something magical that happens when a penis penetrates a vagina. They seem to believe that breaking one type of promise is acceptable, but breaking the "forsake all others" promise -- even when granted permission to do so -- is completely unacceptable.

If your spouse is lying to you, and going behind your back to do something he/she knows you would not tolerate or approve, you are cheating. Period. It doesn't matter what it is they're doing. It's about breaking that trust, not about a penis penetrating a vagina.

Contrary to what many people here believe, cheating is less about the extra marital sex and more about the lying, deception, and lack of respect. The sex is just the avenue in which these marriage killers present themselves. If I had a wife that always lied to me, yet remained faithful, we would still divorce. However, if my wife and I consented to extra marital sex, it would not be a betrayal.

Its the trust, not the sex, that really matters in a marriage.

I'm curious how different the reaction of this crowd would have been if these two worked it out and stayed together instead of divorced.

Quite well written story about what dishonesty wreaks on a marriage regardless of how that marriage is constructed. I'm of the opinion that other people's morals are other people's business, with some caveats including age and consent of course. So even though this marriage allowed sex with others the dishonesty killed it. Well done.

leaving a known cheater is a 5* act

As you say "I'm curious how different the reaction of this crowd would have been if these two worked it out and stayed together instead of divorced."

In Swingerjoe's world negotiating around the deception would be more difficult than the adultery. For most people (I suspect) neither is particularly easy.

L

.. and, that is ONE outcome that is consistent with human nature. Part of the reason that swinging/swapping isn't for everyone.

I've been burned like this ... my second wife and I were swingers - and she broke the 'cardinal rule' of swinging - do not fall for "the piece on the side". She did and wanted him more than me ... now she doesn't have either one.

... to prevent others from starting unknowingly a relationship with a divorced cheater they should have cut away their nose by law - to be marked forever!

But unfortunately half of the people around would miss their nose then ;-)

My worst fear is to get trapped by a cheater!

She did have a point, he gave her permission. While I can appreciate his feeling deceived, he has to explain why, if she was in fact fucking a variety of men, why that would be OK. He would never know if the other men were married or not, he would never know if she used a condom, and what difference does it make if its 9 times with 3 different names or 9 times with one name. You never had them address the real question, what did this affair mean to her? Did she want out of the marriage, did she just want to sport fuck this guy at the office, what? May not have changed the divorce, but would have made the whole drama more understandable, and emotional. Based on the dialogue she was perfectly OK if he fucked around just as much as she did, so its not like she was trying to get something over on him while denying him the same freedom.

It looked like he divorced her to punish her. Her deception was one of who she was fucking, and maybe how often. But she never tried to hide that she was fucking everyone she wanted to. And she gave him the option of stopping her fucking, which he declined. So he kind of gave her permission to fuck around, twice. And then he divorces her not because she was fucking other men, but because she wasn't fucking who she was supposed to be fucking. I think he might have wanted to at least discuss the underlying issue of her fidelity, and long term prospects for their relationship. If it was just recreational sex, some counseling and a better understanding of their marriage commitment might have saved the relationship. Or at least prepared them to better manage any future marriages.

Thanks for your time and effort.

Not a lifestyle I would ever want or could except, not if I loved my wife.

This wasn't an arrangements...She prepared the terrain, in order to cheat...she lied to her husband since the very beginning...That's why when he found out, the damage was so big that their marriage had no salvation...4*

Tom is guilty , guilty. guilty of being ' a low energy individual '. He's not unintelligent ( tumbled to Meagan's deception fairly quickly and he is a nice guy . But he is a nice guy without much game ergo his fumbling and bumbling during pseudo-swinging phase. Tom was wilfully passive, content to stay home while wife was supposed to be on prowl. 2 years after the divorce , he's still a free agent on singles market.

Meagan is integrity challenged , no argument. But there's an excellent chance she snared a nice guy, but didn't count on Tom's low dynamic quotient. Did Meagan deserve the pain of a sundered marriage ? Sure , but in my eyes so did Tom. Hopefully they both learn from whys and wherefores of their mutual marital Waterloo and apply lessons learned going forward.

I thank Swingerjoe for mental mulch provided by this ostensibly unassuming story that has apparantly resounded in my brain due to his skill. Frankly as a man who has paired off with several changeling, wilfull, skillful Gemini women who bring the heat, but can be erratic on constancy, I know a little more about how Tom got hung out to dry then the average bear.

Great story, original plot. She played him like a virtuoso. Scary woman who can lie and fool him so smoothly. He can love her, but he can't trust her. Husband was naive, but perceptive. I liked the story and loved the length too.

When a couple start bringing others into their sex life it will most likely ruin marriage over time. It's supposed to be special between man and wife, not comparison of dozens of hook ups. Then add in the lies along with breaking rules of intamacy. Her going bareback with a lover that could be carrying something like aids. They should have went to counciling before adding lovers, they might have found a way to be happy with each other with out corrupting there marriage.

She will just snare another sucker to tack care of her and still play the field

This divorcee was a minor set back, but no deal breaker. She is the only one that mattered, and has just moved onto a different playing field.

I enjoyed your story, Joe. It was well executed, and the reveal of Meagan's deceit was a surprise to me. Thanks for posting!

Like how he realized that Samantha at the end of the story was the mystery woman at the beginning. Wish he would of elaborated on what happened with Meagan and Kyle in the aftermath Great story

I usually get the feeling your stories are a veiled (or not) promotional piece for swinging and sharing lifestyle-this proves me quite wrong. Thx for a well balanced, well written tale. It flowed very nicely.

Swingerjoe is just a douche bag with a computer. Condescending, supercillious, patronizing, just some adjectives that come to mind. This site is supposed to be about entertainment but asshats like he and frontlinecaster have tried to turn it into a forum for the advancement of their own personal fetiish. The only way he maintains any relevance at all is by turning off scoring so no one can see how really unpopular he is and by playing the parasite in the comments on other people's stories. The truth is, he's neither interesting nor original, just tedious.

What does that make you? You commented on his story JUST TO SAY THAT. You just did what you accused him of. Lol. I hope you see the irony in that.

And I am not easily impressed. Flowed well, great character development without a lot of superfluous crap.

....was he really than dense, that he couldn't sense the set up?

My ex tried that with me..I shut her down and upon questioning, no, more interrogating her, surmised she'd already been cheating on me for some time and wanted to "institutionalize" the affair under the guise of an open marriage. So this story resonated with me on a very personal level.

In my case, I called her a faithless bitch and a whore and told her she had 10 minutes to clear out. She dragged her feet, thinking...no, who knows what she thought. So, I helped her pack by grabbing several large black trash bags and filled each, hauling it out to her car. She was in tears and wanted to apologize, set things right, but I wasn't having any of that. I took her keys and separated the house and garage keys from her car and office keys, escorted her out to her car by the elbow, asking her to text me where she ended up. I "re-ordered" the household finances by opening my own accounts and transferring money to them, then removed myself from what we're now her accounts and cards. I did not pay off any balances, as I did not use cards, so they were all her burden to bear.

Four days later I hadn't heard from her, so I figured she was shacked up with lover boy. I had her served at her office.

I wanted to keep costs minimal, so filed as a "diy" divorce (you can do that in my state), no lawyers, a reasonable split of the shared estate, excluding her 401k and mine, my house (which I bought two years out of high school and remodeled), the cars. I separated the savings and checking in proportion to the contributions to them and the filing rested with the clerk of the court for 6 months until it became valid by writ on the day of the sixth month.

We've never spoken again, and while I get laid pretty regularly, I have not found a reason to trust another woman with my heart in the 10 years since. I have had several girlfriends, but those deals ended as they began to express interest in something more "long term". I had been and am always very clear up front that marriage is not on the table.....lest there be hard feelings about any misunderstanding, later.

A few years back, I started building boats. They sell well and it is an interesting way to fill the hours between workdays. But is a pursuit filled with solitude. So, I also circulate a couple nights a week.

I managed to built myself a bay cabin cruiser and enjoy taking a companion out along the outer banks for a long weekend or a short vacation. The girls seem to like it, as much as I do....that whole shipboard lifestyle. I have had several coeds join me, I don't understand it, but what unattached, red-blooded male is going to turn down coed pussy? Not this one. On one occasion they came as a pair. Roommates that shared everything. It was extra cramped, but very interesting to see how they'd coordinated their lovemaking with ours. It was like a show dance. Anyway, I don't lack for companionship with the ladies, I lack for trust, honesty, consistency, constancy, honor, integrity and love with them. For me, you can't have that last item, without the preceding ones firmly intact. Maybe some day, I'll bump into a woman with all those qualities and that is attracted to me enough to "run the gauntlet" and establish a real lasting relationship before, as with almost all others, I either see through them or tire of their machinations.

SJ, whatever criticisms others may have of you, I must say, you write a great story. I'm not enamored of all of your submissions as I was this one, but all, each and every one, have been well worth the read. I especially appreciate that you seem to take care with the details of the writing as much as the story-telling.

Thank you, please carry on.

Because the whole point of loving and trusting is not having to constantly question everything the person you love and trust says and does.

The first page of this story reminded me of a story posted by tranquility99 about some milestone birthday. Still enjoyable to read however.

I don't get the comments about her cheating being a surprise. It seemed obvious from the moment she suggested opening thing up A couple days later that she had someone lined up.

Add in her odd reaction when this was supposed to be making them closer and the man was clueless.

Still, it was better than most of the stuff here. Thanks.

Really..... have you ever read some of his comments? the worst thing about his feedback / comments is lack of reasoning. For example WHY doesnt it matter if the cunt whore wife lied or not?

This does illustrate a very common problem, many more men out there then women. I knew a few guys that tried this with their (then wives). The wives would get tons of cock without any effort and they ended up with little to no net gain. I even commented that he could not land a slut that would put out in the first date. The wife slapped him so hard he had a mark for an hour. Mostly the wives left them, taking every penny they could. I nearly lost it when the ex-wives tried to talk up my wife. Only after some real heart to heart talking did she turn away from that cliff. So open marriage? 3 couples started 2 divorced and bitter the third holding on but way?

For this author... this is a very good story. Like Hamlet good.

Most of this author's stories usually feature an incredibly stupid husband / male etc asking for behaving in an amazingly stupid way. We saw that with this particular husband but near the end he got a clue.

For example early in the stories when one starts fuckign other men ... the husband FIRST concern is the other guys cock size. REALLY?

2d when the husband finds out the cunt whore wife is performing oral sex acts with other men that she refuses to for her husband ... the husband reaction is absurd. . When she gives the stupidest most lame explanation about why she hasn't done that for him since the honeymoon... He simply nods his head and says ..."oK what ever you say I will buy that stupid explanation..."

To answer your question: yes. You would be absolutely shocked how many people have an open marriage and actually live happily ever after. It doesn't make for a very good story, but it happens more often than you think.

Betrayal is betrayal. As the protagonist said she broke almost every boundary they had. Then she lied about it. That is cheating no matter how the limits of the marriage has moved to allow some behaviors. Even in a completely monogamous marriage the limits or boundaries of what is OK varies with each couple and even what time they are in their marriage. It is agreed that penetration and other direct sexual acts like oral sex break fidelity. For some it is ok to dance with another person. For some you can have lunch or dinner to talk but they cannot buy. Others say you can not talk to the opposite sex on the cell. On and on. What breaks the rules of that couple is the betrayal and the loss of trust. Marriage over unless remorse is present and actions that can regain that trust. As for as disrespect read John Gottman to see how to discern that in a predictive way so one can determine when an observed couple is going to make it. Need to say this. Actual research shows that swingers have less divorce than do monogamous couples. Good luck with that Harry.

A good emotional read about a devious wife playing the long game.

Personally I would have liked reconciliation even though the wife has to win the trust of her husband back.

I think it is easier to write about divorce than reconciliation. As sp much more effort has to go into reconciliation, and the wife will never know if what she is doing is enough or will ever work !

Just my opinion, ...

It's interesting what different people find most difficult to work through and forgive. Many LW stories are about the apparently unforgivable nature of a wife's adultery. Somewhere along the slippery slope of seduction, from the point where a wife allows a man who is not her husband to approach her, to the point where his penis enters her vagina, various authors will say "She has reached the point where what she has done is unforgivable and it's not worth trying to resurrect the relationship".

That's no problem to Swingerjoe. In his world, she can do all those things so long as she is honest about it. But his story is just as unforgiving of her dishonesty as other authors' stories are of adultery. His first person character made no effort to explore her reasons or reconcile the relationship either. He too has said "She has reached the point where this is unforgivable and it's not worth trying to resurrect the relationship".

It's much more difficult to work through a problem than to abandon the transgressor. But which is the more adult thing to do?

L

Well done. For goodness sake people. This is fiction !!!! Make believe !!! I fantasise about men (and other women). I read erotic stories on Literotica, none of that means I am going to cheat on my Husband. I long to be seduced by a handsome stranger but instead, I read literotica and other books and daydream.

Cynthia

star

If you couldn't stand the heat, you should have stayed out of the kitchen. If you're going to let your wife fuck another man, you shouldn't make ridiculous rules.

Good story; well written. Why won't you let us score it?

Hopefully "once bitten twice cautious" will come into play with Samantha.

This story has a ring of truth to it that was a painful reminder of the risks and consequences of bringing in other people into a marriage. I felt Megan was too enthusiastic from the beginning. You are a great author and left clues along the way.

Sad ending but just. 5 from me.

"Which is the more adult thing to do?"

Are you kidding me? That is laughably offensive. Anyone who thinks there is an "adult" way to handle betrayal by a spouse is either ignorant or an idiot. Hopefully you're just ignorant.

Open marriages are just train wrecks looking for a place to happen. People choose that lifestyle because they can't commit or they have the morals of an alley cat. Or no self control. There was nothing particularly interesting or entertaining about this story. You could see the end coming at the start. She thinks she's entitled and acts that way. It's no surprise when their marriage crashes and burns. No other ending was expected or would have been plausible.

2 stars

... if both benefit from it and both respect the rules. Open marriage couldn't have worked in this story as the only beneficiary was the wife. That she lied and broke all rules they agrred to is only more nails in the marraige's coffin.

Sorry that I write as anonymous, but I try to activate my account since July 2019, but get not support from Literotica.

For once I agree with Harry's comment. Open marriage is nothing more than consensual cheating. I think Joe is full of shit with his happy marriage bullshit.

Actually it’s the opposite of what I fear as it’s I that needs emotional attachment of some degree to want sex with someone. My wife (I think, as we’ve never talked about it) thinks of sex as just sex. Before we dated I know she had FWB relations in college.

As far as the story goes I really would have liked to know a little a smidge more about Meagan went through post-divorce. And, being a BTB guy, MORE BTB!!! At the very least did he tell Kyle’s wife?

Sad tale. I've read a few stories where couples tried "swinging" and I don't recall any ending well. It seems that someone always gets neglected, excluded or kept in the dark and ultimately hurt deeply. . Jealosy is a factor that not many people can account for or get past. I for one could not knowingly allow my wife to be with another. I don't understand the "open marriage" concept. If they want or need to screw other people they should get divorced or better yet don't get married in the 1st place.

Finally, a realistic, true-to-Life Femdom agitprop. Well done!

Swinging!!!??

Not surprised at the ending

At SJ was honest with this one. Poor Joe is obsessed with swinging, l he swing as well

I wonder if his marriage collapsed as do 90% of all swinger marriages. Given the rubbish Joe wrote, l can only hope so

1/5