All Comments on 'When We Were Married Ch. 04D'

Who cares if we discuss this story and what happens?

I would be willing to make a wager, that if we ever figure out when Debbie started cheating, and agreed on the time, "WE COULD FIND A PATH TO MIDEAST PEACE".

First of all you have to agree on what actually constitutes cheating. Is it the dancing and rubbing her body against other men, is it the e-mails and shaving her pussy for Doug, or does it have to be actual intercourse? <P>

Having decided that, the rest is easy. Just read the story. I try not to get more out of the story than the author put in. Don't read between the lines.

Jenny: Good points. If I may join in I'd like to point out that 1) In every cheating wife story but this one it seems when the wife is 'cheating,' she is screwing someone other than her husband. 2) 'Debbie rubbing up against men' doesn't come from the story, it's the other way around. Again in the vast majority of occurances it's the man who is doing the rubbing. At times women allow it and even encourage it but according to a reliable eye witness, Bill's secretary, Cheryl, Debbie was very good at defusing incidents of improper behavior without causing a big scene. Cheryl went so far as to say that 'hot' women like Debbie had to learn to defuse these incidents or carry a cattle prod to fend the men off. 3) In the story Debbie admits to fantasizing about Doug while she shaved her pussy. That's entirely different form shaving her pussy FOR Doug. Some would argue that there is no difference but if there was no difference, why not tell it like it is instead of 'slanting the news'? If she was shaving it FOR Doug, the implication is Doug gets some benefit or she intends for Doug to get some benefit from her pussy being bald. Debbie stated or DQS revealed her thoughts that indicate there was NO intent for Doug to get any benefit before she divorced Bill.

It is not HDK, i read his all stories, major part of his stories is Humor, and I can tell by reading that it is HDK or not he has his own style, which is defintly not this, none of his male character ever had artificial personality, like Bill. And is also not thecelt , his main concern in story was story itself, not character development, there were development in characters but that was never the main concerns, if he had stretched the story so long it would have been because of story is long, but what we here see is short story, hanging for end (only) on the whim of character development.

But I'm smarter than the average bear.

You are absolutely correct. Here cometh SHOE with the sane old worn out and disproved "BULL SHIT" once again.

We are awaiting promising indications that 2010's author of the year candidate for L.W. stories, DQS, either has or very soon (3 days?) intends to post CH 05A of WWWM. Jen has already indicated fine writers such as Ohio, HDK, The Celt and D.G. Hear as having posted excellent stories worth reading. I'd like to add that some of K.K.'s stories, especially stories posted after 2004 are equally as good. I'd suggest "What Really happened in Vegas," "The Bachelorette Party," and "The fall and Rise of David Beckman." "The Stein" which I believe posted before 2004 is equally a fine story.

Shoe... If you are for real, and not a sane person who just enjoys tweeking people for the fun of it, you still have to be smart enough not to go after someone like Jennybear. She has an intellect and common sense. Do NOT let her picture in profile fool you. (by the way JB, you are still my version of literotica's pin-up queen! cute with a brain...)

Since it will be awhile for the next chapter, could you entertain us all with your justifications for Mary Kay Letourneau, (An old story, I know, but, It could still be fun to read your pearls of wisdom) Was it the evil husband or the sophisticated 13 year old Don Juan who was responsible. Come on and put your heart and soul into this endeavor. If I recall she had three children with her husband, but it might be bad form to try and blame them. But, whoever you blame, I am sure that you will provide alot of amusement for the readers. Thank you in advance.

Gus

'Separate Lives PT.01- 03" by Longhorn_07 is outstanding, one of my all time favorites. The author is also one of my all time favorites. <P>

“That Sunday Afternoon” by K.K. is also a good read. <P>

“Through Different Eyes” by Postscriptor is quite short but very entertaining. <P>

If you like stories in the same vein Q has written, Try “Billy Ch.O1-05” by the Celt and “Jan and Tim” by Cageytee both include unbelievably forgiving males. <P>

This is just off the top of my head, I know I’m omitting some great stories.

<P>

TY Gus

"Shoe... If you are for real, and not a sane person who just enjoys tweeking people for the fun of it, you still have to be smart enough not to go after someone like Jennybear."

*

JennyBear, I hope you don't think I "went after" you. I think you brought up a thought provoking statement about the question, "What constitutes cheating." I obviously thought you over stated Debbie's actual transgressions and perhaps was more aggressive than necessary in saying so. Please accept my apologies.

*

Others: For the record I believe that there are reasons for splitting up other than cheating. Debbie may have given Bill ample reasons, I just don't think "cheating" is one of them. IMO What she has done is cumlatively enough to stay split up if that's what Bill wants to do. By the same token IMO she hasn't done so much that reconciliation is out of the question.

Shoe, have you read Q's latest "Separate Vacations" ? It's pretty good, I'm on page four right now, so I have to run.

I realize I am going against reason in entering into this with shoe, but... in for a penny in for a pound.

Shoe... will you try one thing for me, please. Go back to the first chapter and read the emails. Then go back to the very beginning and read the first scene again. Really read that first bedroom scene with the knowledge that all the emails have already been written.

You see, the author is writing from Bills perspective, hence the repeating I am Bill Maitland". It is a plot device to start with Bill's chronology of events, his discovery of facts. 'But' you must understand that the emails and dating have actually occurred before the bedroom scene.

When Debbie says; "I'm sorry for saying it that way, Bill. You know I love you. You're the only man in my life. I love you more now than when we married. You're the father of my children. This is crazy. It was just a slip of the tongue and it didn't mean anything." Where is there any honesty? She has already been telling her boyfriend that she is going to divorce her husband.

Before you point it out, I intentionally said; 'Boyfriend and Dating' Yes, and I mean exactly that. When 2 coworkers or even just friends meet for a meal, they do not discuss their underwear or grooming habits or especially their bedroom habits with their spouse. You do not shave your crotch and wear special lingerie for a coworker or friend.

Shoe... I hate to keep bringing it up and this may even be pointless, but, Who has lied? Who has confessed to lying? Debbie said several times that there could be no future for her and Doug, so besides selfishness and jealousy (from the young girls near Doug's apartment) Why would she bring him to her house, to screw her boytoy in front of her children. Both kids have complained about her actions and the noise. Both kids complained of her actions with their friends. Bill Jr does not want his friends to come inside. Can you give me one good reason for her to allow Doug in her house?

In a nutshell, I do not hate Debbie, she is not evil, but, she lies, she cheats, she tries to be intentionally cruel, (telling Bill to hire a hooker after telling about doug's big cock) and Could you find one time, (when the story is from Deb;s POV) that she is not derogatory about other women she encounters? Besides relatives that is.

Vietvet, JennyBear, etc. etc, I know that I should not have bothered... But, I guess I am just another idiot that does not learn his lesson...

Gus

Gus, what can I say? I had it totally under control. Shoe is very intelligent, he knows what buttons to push to get y'all to react.

Bingo. You have put into perspective what I have feebly been trying to say since chapter one.

The e-mails were written before the first scene.

"DAMN YOU ARE GOOD." Keep up the analysis as you make more sense than all of my feeble ramblings, and JennyBear, yes you did have it handled, but I'm glad Gus made his thoughts public.

Tom

After reading what I wrote, I realize that it could be taken entirely different than I meant it. I did not intend to imply that Shoe was attacking JennyBear or even that she could not handle herself. I was trying to say, (in a obviously flawed way) that he should not bother to match wits or semantics with her, like some of the others, because he would lose. Hell, I know I would fair no better in the same match. She does not need me to defend her.

I unfortunately, too often let my dry sense of humor and or lack of verbal skill, (in this case typing skill) get away from me and assume that people automatically understand me. I will try to do better and again, I am sorry that I was unclear and I apologize to you both.

Gus

Just wanted to drop interested readers a line. I've just posted 5A tonight which means that it will run, if it follows the Lit formula, on Sunday 9/12 or Monday 9/13. This is about 18-20,000 words or six full Lit pages. , It's pretty dense...but hopefully readers who've been following the story will enjoy it.

Here is a quote from Chapter 2A after Debbie notified Bill of her intentions of divorcing him. Later that evening he is pondering his married life with Debbie. These are his thoughts:

"But I had never looked at another woman and seriously thought about cheating on my wife. I hadn't given the love that I had pledged to her to a stranger. And if I had had the kind of problem that Debbie had had, if it had been me that had kept in shape and her that had let herself get fat and flabby, I knew I would have gone to her and tried to make things work.

During her two pregnancies she had gotten huge and it had taken a while after each to re-gain her old body. But I can't remember ever looking at her and not seeing the woman I loved. It was her under that flab and those extra pounds. Why couldn't she have done that for me?"

From this very statement, it is obvious Bill never cheated on Debbie.

Richard

There is something that has been bugging me, and recently it has not come up again. size mentioned it again, and I went "aha".

It's Bill's secretary, Cheryl. size has said that Cheryl is a "reliable" witness. I doubt her reliability. size thinks Cheryl is reliable because she told Bill the truth when he asked her what she thought of him (in attractiveness).

Hence, she would not lie to Bill when he asked Cheryl what Debbie did during those dances.

My problem with this is threefold.

First, how WAS Cheryl's relationship with Bill? Good friends? Just colleagues? She didn't like him much? Did she hate his guts? Depending on that, her answer that Bill looked like a flabby whale might very well have been a put down.. Her answer is subjective, not objective. She wants to keep her job, so she can't go overboard even if she wanted to.

Second, there have been two instances where Cheryl did something for Debbie, that Bill did not want her to. Cheryl told Debbie where Bill was, when Debbie asked her. When Cheryl was pondering, Debbie told her "I'm not asking you to betray him, I just want to know where he is." Which is EXACTLY what Bill did NOT want Debbie to know.

"I don't want you to betray Bill, I just want you to betray Bill." basically.

Second instance, with the Angel of Death stuff. Debbie walked into Bill's office without warning, without notice. Cheryl knows all about Bill and Debbie's problems. Why did Cheryl not stop Debbie? Why did Cheryl not at least warn Bill? She let Debbie in, just like that. Why?

In my opinion, Cheryl, even as a supposedly neutral outsider, is in favor of Debbie more than Bill, her boss. She will listen more to Debbie than Bill, and ignore his direct commands regarding Debbie, despite working for him.

Now, onto the third part.

Bill asked Cheryl whether anything untoward had been going on with Debbie during the dances. Cheryl replied in the negative, that Debbie was good at defusing potential bad scenes.

My argument is, did Cheryl watch Debbie all the time? Was she even there all the time Debbie was out dancing? I doubt Cheryl was acting as Debbie's chaperone, or even wanted to, so there could very well have been times that there HAD been "untoward things" going on, and Cheryl missed those, or wasn't even there.

For instance, the rape scene. I'm not very certain, but was this in a club somewhere? If Cheryl HAD been watching Debbie like a hawk, how could she have missed that? If she DID miss that, there could have other times she had missed.

Also, would Debbie really be dumb enough to do something on the dance floor, surrounded by dozens of people who would see her? No, it would be somewhere private, somewhere Cheryl would not be able to see her. It's not like she'd give people incontrovertible proof like fucking some guy right on the dance floor.

So, although Cheryl did not lie to Bill as such, there is no way she could have known the full truth either. She is not a reliable witness.

You write very well, however you give too much leevay for the cheating wifes/sluts.

Most of the guys I know would at least try to "Torch the Beach" since theu reachly deserve it.

Why don't you consider yr endings in this light

Regards,

Al

Anxiously awaiting the promised next chapter. PLEASE soon.

Just caught up with this epic tale and realized this dismal cheating slut deserved to be raped and probably was begging for it. She obviously cheated in various ways in the past 10 years of their marriage so it is inevitable that she will reap what she sows & deserves. She should do the plot a line a favor and jump off a nearby bridge so the rest of them can move on to a real life without a slut hanging around.

Well worth the wait.

when Debbie starts to realize or properly her shrink reveals the great trauma which led to her destroying her marriage. The trauma of the rape which appears to happen at one of the parties her and Bill attended in the bathroom. No doubt she had been flirting and teasing the men so they (at least three) grabbed her. The pissing on her was an act of revenge not lust. The fact that she forgets about the rape indicates how deep the trauma on her mind. So Debbie was raped but culd not tell Bill because of the impact on his job which she knew he loved. He could not unlike before rescue and protect her so she begins to disrespect him and hate his job. Since she fell in love with Bill because he had saved her before now since he could not protect her from these rapists she finds another younger protector to love her. To justify her actions she must find fault with Bill.

Most cheating wives stories end with the divorce which took 4 long chapters. I hope the reconciliation is completed in half that time.

Good read

In spite of the fact that he really had failed his wife and family, he truly is a good man. It was touching that he contacted Dunleavey's son.

This story is ridiculously overlong. This "chapter" was just a rehash of the guy pulling the same self-pitying crap (too bald too short too flabby) as some "ridiculously" hot woman fawns over him. And how many "worst days" of your life are you allowed to have in one story?

Get on with it already! this hour by hour shit is for the birds drivel. I'm just reading because I thought by this point in the story there would be something happening

A decent editor could cut this writing by 1/3 and would keep the reader from losing his/her mind from all the mistakes - consider on next time.

Your talented that's for sure, but I'm afraid you've made a big mistake undertaking this extremely long, often boring & slow moving tale. Your lack of using a good editor is becoming more & more evident, there's just far too many silly little sub plots that do absolutely nothing to enhance or improve the story. This little detour about Fr. Dunleavy whilst interesting had NO impact or business being told here right now. I know you've finished all the chapters now & I cringe that there's still another 8 to go, hope I have the fortitude to read them all. I think you've done yourself, this story & your readers a major disservice by dragging it out like you have; sorry but my respect for your skills is beginning to wane. 3 ***

"Yeah, I guess sometimes. I could read it in his eyes sometimes when we went to parties or some hot guy hit on me. I liked guys flirting with me. I liked the feel of a big hard dick rubbing up against my thigh and knowing the guy who owned that dick would chop off a nut to put it inside me. I was never going to do anything about it, except fuck Bill's brains out after the party.

"But I could tell that he was hurt. And I've have to be extra special loving to him to make him feel better. And most of the time it was okay. But there were times...there were nights.. I wanted to kick his ass and tell him that I didn't want to be his mother and hold his hand."

So, she KNOWS what the guys at the parties are doing is hurting Bill, but instead of slapping some faces, and stomping some feet with spiked heels, she gets off on the attention, and thinks giving Bill some "special loving" later makes it all better.

Why not "special loving" WITHOUT the hurt?

Earlier, Bill told Heather that the divorce would be final on September 19.

But then the divorce was final on August 19.

"not like I was doing him a favor by being with him."

But she KNEW that's how he felt. Did she ever make ANY effort to convince him that it wasn't true?

No, instead she danced with the kinds of guys that he felt she REALLY wanted to be with, and obviously enjoyed their attentions, even when they got out of line. It's no wonder he lost interest in going out with her. What husband with an OUNCE of self-respect would want to watch younger, taller, better looking men rub themselves all over his wife, to her obvious enjoyment, let alone one who already felt that he didn't deserve her?

The story is too long. Encounters and interaction are redundant. No closures? Sorry DQS, but you're indulging yourself and leaving your readers behind to doze off and try to keep from Googling something else. I've enjoyed some of the other stuff you have contributed, but geez ..... get a grip. You are better than this lengthy trial and tribulation. Personally I think the characters are all totally dysfunctional and self absorbed and all with mostly loose screws with the moral compasses of hyenas. I would kick Bill's ass and tell him to get over the slut, and give him last call on his beer guzzling. I would offer a porn contract to Debbie ASAP before her boobs lose the battle with gravity. Then I'd pimp her out on the streets while she's still got some earning potential. What a worthless slut.

DQS .... shorten the stuff down, dammit !!!

Too much of Debbie who was a lying, cheating slut.

I find it very engrossing and entertaining. Some elements and exchanges are a bit tedious, but I figure the author knows what he wants to accomplish.

Thanks for the enjoyable read!

Please keep writing.

It wasn't necessary to make Debbie so bad.

Your characters are real.

I feel a lot of sympathy for both.

You are a very fine writer. Thanks

Yes it was necessary to make Debbie bad regardless of what some think. You just don't do things the way she did, you just don't. Not enough bad can happen to her. I wish Bill and Ailene could have gotten together as you can tell he was starting to really love her and I believe she would have loved him. Authors never do anything for the good guys even though he had some faults. I can only hope that sometime later they can get together on a more permanent basis.

Why is Bill such a lying hypocrite???????

it always comes and the sun always shines, until it doesn't, TK U MLJ LV NV

"Actually, to be fair about it, I had thrown her to him" - Why is he being so hard on himself?

"but a rug rat doesn't sound so terrible right now...MY rug rat." - Well, that comes pretty close to ruling Debbie out. She's 40, or almost anyway. Yeah, Janet Jackson is 50 and pregnant, but that's fairly unusual. If he wants to father a child he should be looking for a younger woman.

"I wanted to kick his ass and tell him that I didn't want to be his mother and hold his hand." - Maybe if you had kicked those other guys' asses, and he didn't have to think that you needed those other guys to get turned on for him, he wouldn't have felt so inadequate, so unworthy of you.

"I wanted to tell him to be a man and grow some balls and treat me like I belonged to him, not like I was doing him a favor by being with him." - AGAIN, maybe if you ACTED like you belonged to him and wasn't doing him a favor by being with him!

"Maybe because a guy I thought I'd grow old with let me and our marriage go?" - Again with the "Blame Bill Game"! Was he overly devoted to his job? Yes, but thatbis NOT the same as "letting you go". If you had put HALF the effort in convincing him that you believed that he was worthy of you that you put into flirting with other guys, convincing him he WASN'T, maybe things would have been different.

I think Debbie is very conflicted. At the end of the confrontation between Bill and Debbie talking about Bill telling the two kids that he loves them ---

Dabbie asks Bill, "And how do you feel about me?"

No responce from Bill. and the storry moves on to the divorce court hearing.

What the hell is that about? She does not love him any more? or does she?

Pour little hot slut wants it all, Bill and every other man with a dick? I think she is having "seller remorce" Like when you clean out the basement and discover you through out something you need the next day.

To bad Debbie, once it is in the dump, it is VERY HARD to get it back... Hehehe.

We both seem to enjoy ... the use ... of ... elllipses...

This is just a comment and not a judgment of DQS punctuation usage.

One other comment, with Deb going back to her maiden name shouldn't she be addressed as MS. and not MRS.?

My second time reading this story which is in my top 10 stories on LIT,

thank you for your story telling skills.

JJ

That 2am rape scene... Urgh. Seriously disgusting.

I'm just not sure whether this was a pure nightmare, a buried memory or or something that actually happened in her own bathroom that night.

I just feel... so goddamn bad for her, which pissed me off, 'cause I REALLY do not like Debbie!

Man, I hope some douchebags aren't really breaking into her house to gangrape her mouth... that's truly too disturbing.

This was obviously a flashback memory/dream to the night at UNF that brought Bill into her life and made him her hero.

Possibly she'd never had that dream while they were married because he was always there and her was her 'knight in shining armor' protector despite her growing revulsion of his physical deterioration.

The fears from that night now resurface when she's discarded her protector.

I did not want to feel pity for this woman, that was a low blow. Even so wonderfull twist, magnificent execution. Great work.

I feel no pity for a woman who flaunts her body and flirts/teases men the way she does. She has no concept of what she is doing beyond the instantaneous pleasure she gets from playing men. She has no concept of what can happen beyond her immediate situation. She keeps saying that she has brains and telling everyone how smart she is but her actions show just the opposite. She keeps blaming her ex-husband about being his fault that they were divorcing. Cheating is not always a physical act. It is almost always preceded by mentally leaving the marriage which she had apparently done years ago.

Getting tired of his self pity, she was a slut who got off teasing and rubbing on other men. Get moving already it's over.

God, I need a psychiatrist, my minds in a whirl. Whose side am I on, I have no idea, from one paragraph to another. I truly believe that they are both good people. I will never have it that Debbie is a slut, she may have been before her marriage, but not since. How many women don't enjoy being hit on, when their husbands appear to have lost interest in them, she may have flirted but never strayed, that's the important stat. Bill's a great genuine bloke, but his pride is ruining his life (remember pride comes before a fall) he could have another 40 or 50 years with a gorgeous woman who really loves him and in return only wants his love. He should pull his sell together, bury his pride, go to to see her. Tell her he's been a silly fool and ask her to give it another try, she would snap his hand off. Then take her in his arms, kiss her passionately and give her a real good fucking. Sorry about my bad language, not good from a mother of two, but there was no other way of putting it.

Wife is just a whore. She ended the marriage when she said "I don't love you" to Bill...

I find it hard to believe that a woman (Debbie) who suffered that kind of trauma to be behaving the way she is. Dressing provocatively, letting men rub their dicks on her, flirting with her daughter's boyfriend, wanting the ogling that men give her, in other words behaving like a slut! Victims of rape would be scared, untrusting, or probably hate men and will have some apprehension about having sex with strange men. That kills Debbie's character for me. She is not a real person.

The writing is well crafted, but there are lots of problems wit the plot and the characters and how the plot and characters cohere

If everybody had "Debbie Vows" (...until death or you get too fat), 94% of all US marriages would end in divorce.

" I wasn't in bed with those guys. I was in bed with him. He won me, not them. I wanted to tell him to be a man and grow some balls and treat me like I belonged to him, not like I was doing him a favor by being with him."

facts

Given real world statistics, a woman with Debbie’s path quite literally would have never been able to have a successful marriage. Studies have proven that the more partners a woman has, the chances of divorce go up significantly. It’s clear she likely had hundreds of partners before she got married. You made her a literal caricature and into someone who is in the top 0.001% of the population in terms of number of sexual partners. Her count is not just high in comparison to the average it’s pornstar level high and clearly hundreds of men. It’s not remotely realistic at all. If you had given her a partner count of 20 then that would have more realistic. She still could have been a slut even with that amount but not one that fucked literally everything that moved and had zero dignity, shame, self control, or pride.

I cant believe there are such despicable comments on such a great story.

I really love your writing(its like reading a published novel) but I´m starting to fear that you maybe got in trouble with the pacing a bit. Currently I expect this story to end with a reconciliation but with the pacing of the story right now it will feel a bit sudden. Especially because we can see into both Bill and Debbies head and their thoughts... They are growing as people but not enough as a potential cupple. But maybe I end up wrong...I guess I´ll see in a few hours/days haha

Please don't let this be some drawn out, cuck raac. It's been so very rewarding to this point.

Crying over a story, sad.

Truly a tea jerker near the end. Many of us go thru life with lose ends, divorces and estranged kids and we wonder how to repair that? But on a brighter note Debbie ia one fucked up bitch, pardon my french. Always looking for someone else to blame. I mean what a shallow bitch. If every one got a divorce because the vision of the or husband had changed over the years I don't think you would see very many married people over the age of 50. But it is true a friend of went to a high school reunion of about 25 years and when he came back he said most of the guys had trophy wives just dumped the long time wives to trade 'up' or down as the case maybe. Pretty shallow people. I feel sorry for the young women who married assholes like that cause there 'older' husband will eventually dump them or get older and fat and maybe get dumped by them What goes around comes around. Still going strong with this very long story.

Both got serious issues but looks as though Bill is trying to some right things.

Wait for readers as it gets better as this very long and sometimes needlessly long story reaches the end.

Why not just end it after they walk out of the courthouse. I have a terrible feeing you're going to turn him into more of a sissy wimp than he's been so far.

If the memory is real. She's upset he didn't rescue her again?

I think that Debbie has be subjected to a very harsh rape and assault by several men a while back, and some how is repressing those memories, and all that hurt and anger is now surfacing from her unconscious mind, and some how she blames Bill for it.

This is some damn good writing, lots of passion, emotions and some very believable characters, thank you for sharing your work with us.

This story has depths that are almost never seen on this site. The writer here is good enough to do it as a profession.

sucks! All the author talks about is her breasts and this laid or that laid. All these

pages same stuff only a different page.

Very entertaining FICTION ! I am loving it. Strong emotional power

as it makes me want to write the next page!!

Getting better? Thank you.

I ask again, What happened to the RESTRAINING ORDER that Debbie put on Bill? How convenient that it was forgotten....

Author is losing track of the original story line....getting too many sidetracks. Watering down the story, and overloading it with too many other details.

It is starting to get confusing with all the tangents the author discusses.