All Comments on 'Nothing To Talk About Ch. 02'

second chapter,he is doing what a real man would,unlike some of the wimps who haunt this site

Well done, author! We appreciate your efforts. We are sure the "Lit expert -Alvaron53 [who has never posted any of his perfect work]" will find something wrong with it but please disregard that idiot. Thanks again!

Sure I liked this character better. I understood his reasoning and his reactions. They were logical and fair. But I couldn't accept the radical change in the heroine. From a narcissistic, cruel, illogical self-centered bitch, she changed into a nurturing, logical, remorseful wife. And that I couldn't accept. If the story were longer, I could understand giving so much attention to the motivation and character of Peter instead of giving us more of Susan and Jonathan. As it is, you left me hungry for more of Susan's and Jonathan's story.

I do thank you for making this story more logical. Kudos.

The original did not make the lover into a monster. I found that device to be old and worn-out. It also weakens the husband's story that the wife was misled. The original had her choosing this path but your version largely excuses her because she was manipulated. The problem with the original was the bullshit, unethical advice from the divorce lawyer, the wife's moronic beliefs that her husband never loved her because he couldn't understand, and the idiotic ending when the wife gets fed up. These could have been solved by having the husband be a strong man and divorcing her. Her loss would then become apparent without creating a 3rd party villain in the shape of a devious lover.

much more satisfying.

I much preferred this ending to Nici's... It was better and more in tune with what might actually happen in real life, and NOT in some pseudo-romantic nutless wimpworld some women wish that the real one was... This ending didn't insult me like the original did... Nici's a good story teller, but she really needs to ease up on her neutered male character fetish... If she doesn't and if she ever does the stuff her heroines do she has only herself to blame for whatever happens once her partner finds out...poorrichard did a good job at attempting to redeem this yarn...good work.

sounds like it is shaping to be a reconciliation "at all cost".

"Honey, despite what you've done to me, to our family, and were planning on doing, per your last major speech when you spilt the beans, I now realize I can NOT live without you!

"I, therefore, am gonna continue seeing the counselor we've been seeing. I'll postpone the divorce preceedings, for now, just to see if you are serious, okay? Is that okay with you?" LOL

I disagree with "Wet Works", this is far more believable than Nici's story Nici is unable to get inside the mind of a man. And by the way Nici, your "mind fuck" is a total joke. If you sit and bellyache on the forums about us trolls, who got into who's head?? hahahahahahahahaha

in order to write,you need to understand the people.you new how a man think and the writer who start this story didn't.the orginal author gave the story a female slant,with no feelings for what a man would feel or do.you can write about topic,but if you haven't live them it hard to put on paper.my thinking at first she was a manhater,but i give her the benfit of the doubt as being inexperience.a man in that case would think my family have been attack,how to fight back and who do i fight to protect my home.most well thinking men want justice and revenge,that the law of the jungle.

That's it. I feel jonathan has taken control of his life and is in charge of where it's going...and he is not consumed with hate. Susan has come to grips with what she has done and how much it has cost. Both characters can move on and have learned something in the process. Do they get back together? I wouldn't personally unless something momentous happened to persuade me otherwise. But, who knows.....

poorrichard

the original was more believable than this. Its absolutely insane to think any guy would go along with the wife's plan in the original story. I also didnt have a problem with Peter being an asshole. The original author didnt tell us enough about him to know whether he was or not. All we know about him is filtered through the eyes of an idiot (the wife). ......... ............. .............. ........ ............ ............... ............. ....... For facts we have: ......... ............. .............. ........ ............ ............... ............. ....... - he was so broken up over the loss of his own wife that he had to fuck someone else's. ......... ............. .............. ........ ............ ............... ............. ....... - he wasnt just satisfied with cuckolding the guy behind his back, he wanted to pile on the humiliation and force him into knowing about but being unable to do anything about it. ......... ............. .............. ........ ............ ............... ............. ....... - the wife was so clueless that we cant trust her opinion for the lover's character ......... ............. .............. ........ ............ ............... ............. ....... - Peter was do dumb that he thought he had all the angles covered but he really hadnt thought beyond his own dick. Had he and the wife tried to go through with their original plan, he would have been broken, unemployed and sued into the stoneage before he could spit. Thats providing he didnt try to emasculate the wrong person and end up dead (not advocating that course of action, just saying it would be way more likely than the husband going along with their scheme). ......... ............. .............. ........ ............ ............... ............. ....... This ending makes about 1000x times more sense than the original. ......... ............. .............. ........ ............ ............... ............. ....... .PS - me saying this ending is more realistic/likely isnt really applicable given that the original was a troll. Everyone keeps insisting on taking it seriously so I will too by comparing a real story to the running joke that was the original. My comment saying that it was a troll was the only one that I noticed Nici deleting. It said that she wasnt dumb, confused, or delusional, just a troll and that the story was purposely made to be so absurd and to get under people's skin. If I wasnt already pretty sure (based on the facts that she systematically contradicted hereself at every turn - you cant do that by accident no matter how dumb you are), her deleting the comment pretty much proves it. She left comments calling her names and telling her that she was retarded but deletes one that says she was trolling? Makes me more sure than ever that I was right and she just didnt want people to catch on and stop feeding her. ......... ............. .............. ........ ............ ............... ............. .......

PPS - wth is going on with returns in comments? Please, one of you that still has them, tell me the secret. I never claimed to be a rocket scientist and I cant figure it out myself :)

This was and is a great story, but it is not the ending to the story. He needs to kick her cheating ass out of the house, get custody of the children and move to a different location or part of town. A judge will interview each child and when Cindy tell the judge that Peter and her Mother were making out on the couch, the judge will award custody to Jonathan. After the divorce, then Jonathan can start seeing that cute brunett he was talking about and maybe he will have someone to grow old with.

As far as Susan goes, pictures speak louder than words and those pictures tell it all. You think Peter will come back to testify in her behalf that she came to see him to end it all, Nada. Susan cut off her nose in spite of her face and now she will will have to pay the consequences. She started it and laid down the so called law to Jonathan and now she is going to have to live with the outcome of the law. Funny, when you think everything is going your way when you are having an affair and not using common sense, a common sense person can take you to the cleaners and get all of the incriminating evidence on you that it takes to get a divorce.

Jonathan will never be able to trust Susan again. She has a proven track record as a Cheating Wife and Mother. Once a Cheat, Always a Cheat. He might tolerate her because of the kids, but one of these days, he is going to say enough is enough with that Cheat and that will be the end. I hope he does not wait too long.

This is an excellent continuation to the story. I think you need at least one more posting on this drama.

RAG

This is such an improvement over the original series that it can't be measured. Thanks for doing a realistic version. I hope you will continue to write other stories.

The wife is out of her mind and a counselor is not trained nor qualified to take care of her problems. Maybe after the doctors are thru with her she could see a counselor about her problems related to marriage and adultry. the husband in this version has more ability to take control of an out of control situation but not much. He allowed her to remain with the children, a mistake, sluts dont make good role models for children. He hasnt divorced her and still thinks of getting back with her. Again a mistake, a cheater is a cheater, it is a physchological disorder as well as a personality disorder. Unless her mental state is drastically changed she will cheat again given the opportunity with any excuse she finds acceptable. Better to find a loving woman who understands marriage vows and live a comfortable secure life with a real role model for the children. Peter actually got away fairly easy.

but let him finish the divorce, if they can stay friends because of the children ok, but nothing else.

You sure captured the lesbian's characterization of the wife very good. Peter I already gueesd what he was like form the lesbian's description. Now Johnathan was a diesel mech and from all the diesel mech I've known, they have to be tough to torque down a diesel head and such.

Would have liked to have read more of Peters 'accident' but what the hey. You didn't disapoint us like the les...nici..did.

Now make sure the wife eats some waste products too.

The characters pretty much belong to you at this point. You know how to use them better than their creator could manage, for some reason. Good work.

You turn Peter into a one dimensional asshole. You have Johnathan fuck another woman in front of his daughter. And so on. So many comments state that this is so much better than the original. Granted, that was garbage, but at least only Susan was an asshole. In this, they all are.

Poor Peter got his candy and punishment all in one basket PoorRichard i loved this ending alot better than nici had wrote his storie yours gave Jonathan some dignity and back bone to have a PI check out Peter and get the ass hole that he was after Susan was duped and seduced ass a slut she was .

Pat

Atlanta,Ga

situations that have been overcome in a marriage. It just depends how much he can weigh his life before and after 'Peter'. Knowing she was seduced by a master COULD water the situation. Counseling COULD help. But it's mainly just how much his feelings for her can outweigh her infidelity. I'm betting they can make it. 15 years together and two kids is a lot to lose.

Real World---you better read it again; your comprehension is nil.

the original story is not simply a question of infidelity, where one of the spouses strays but feels bad or at least "torn", as well as guilt,,, but a spouse who has come clean and lays down her mediocre hand on the table, ready to confess it and begs for both mercy, understanding, and forgiveness,,, no

,,, the original story is about a spouse who has been fucking around for a year and THEN threatens --- under the thinly veiled pretext of "lack of communication" --- to put restrictions on the other spouse's rights to home, children, and income.

[[[this is one of those women who drive 900 miles non-stop, with asstronautic diapers on, so she could easily wet herself while DRIVING!, to get to her destination to scare and hurt another woman whom she thought was taking her boyfriend from her!]]]

can you live with such a person? suppose the boyfriend was not just some half-baked para-legal (this was the original author's real description for the women's "lawyer" boyfriend, not poorrichard's) but a real boyfriend, an older man who really knew how to throw obstacles at the overworked husband's path?, whether or not he [lawyer] intends to "grow old" with this woman?

even St. Augustin or Mother Teresa won't be able to forgive that!

but there's actually one thing that this vile woman did that's going to prove to be really good for Jonathan: the jolt made him started exercising! if he's really out of shape before, he'd now be in shape; and if he was already in good shape before, he's going to be more than all right.

it's a "no-fault" state, remember. Jonathan needs to start dating. she no longer exists or is important in his eye, in his existence; but ignore the divorce! let her agonize over that! just make new arrangements to the financial aspects of matter and make sure all mutual bills are paid, but make sure she does not hold the purse string any more. the most important things should be just him and his kids: carry out his words.

be as cold and remorseless as she. but do it because you don't know her and don't want to, NOT to "punish" her. really find a decent woman and carry on as she never existed, other than the fact that she's the mother of your children........ no woman can stand that kind of treatment, especially this one, who is NOT that intelligent, per the original author's description,,, a woman who believed her lover of one year was some hot-shot lawyer when he's really just a para-legal paper carrier...

I agree with the majority of comments that this was a far more plausible way for Jonathon to behave. I've said it previously and I still believe it; Nici writes well but her story suggests a lack of understanding of heterosexual male thinking and behavior. I have seen the same patterns in writings by Anne Rice. Her male characters behave in an effeminate manner, just like Nici's. Do individuals who are bisexual prefer to project their sexual preferences and behaviors on their characters in the stories they write? Maybe so, but it would be better if the reader was told this up front. I realize straight males can be sensitive, have intense feelings, be timid or not, many even willingly engage in gay relations when imprisoned for lengthy periods of time (although they revert to straight when released), so it's possible there is a "spectrum" of behaviors that ranges from macho to mild. That said, Nici's picture of Jonathan still did not fit (as I've said previously); the culture of the person who is able to function in the environment "diesel mechanic" is not one to behave the way Nici's Jonathan behaves; Poorrichard's Johathan is far more believable.

in preamble to chapter 1 you commented this may be a three chapter3 effort. but the story appears to be done now. is there another chapter planned?

great story, enjoy this story development more than original.

must give credit to nici, though. her story was 'sometimes life sucks, and the guy in the white doesn't always win'. ain't that the truth!

thanks for your effort,

don

I was glad to see Jonathon start to grow some balls, however by demonizing Richard and changing his character to an ass-hole, actually lowered the depth of the story line. This lessened the impact of Susan’s infidelity, and made her breaking off with Peter trite and predictable, causing Susan’s character to go from someone who's motives for cheating with Peter from being noble & altruistic (which is a different take on the cheating wife theme) to just another bored slut wife, suckered in by a smooth talking pussy hound (which is the standard take on the cheating housewife theme). I was as shocked and horrified at Nici's original submission as you probably were. It was one of the most chilling & terrifying stories ever posted on this site. I think a stronger response was needed to save Jonathon from the truly evil being he found himself married to, this was not it. Nici actualy did a pretty good job of it in the final chapters. The fact that you (and Jonathon) even left open the possibility of reconciliation, is a poor commentary on the state of "wimp/men" that tend to be a favorite of some of the better writers on this site, but leave as bad a taste as the cheating wives that victimize them.

Nice touch on the ending....

As for which "Peter" was the more callous, Nici's or Poorrichard's....I would say Nici's.

Poorrichard's Peter was very one dimensional, a goof that anyone with a pea brain could have deduced over a one year relationship...so he was too obvious and very easy to dislike.

But Nici's Peter on the other hand was a mind player from the get go. He was manipulative, sophisticated, emotionally injured and easy to like. His character was too well crafted by Nici to dislike...almost feminine in nature. But my problem with Nici's Peter, is that Susan to the very end still held no negative feelings for Peter and no hate for the damage he did to her marriage.

What is remarkable, was that in the beginning, Susan was there for Peter to help him with his problems and to comfort him. Yet, in Susan's most needy moment for emotional assistance and comfort, Peter disappears and moves away to leave her alone with her struggle. Doesn't she get it. Susan was used by a weak pretension selfish man who dumped on her at the moment of her need. And Susan's reaction to all this was to come home one night and very "butch like" tell hubby she was serving him divorce papers. Maybe the character development was because of Nici's sexual orientation...but hey..that never interfered with Oscar Wilde and Somerset Maugham two of my all time favs.

...you couldn't end it, could you! You must like to leave things hanging ... a person of non-decision. Jonathan was going to counseling (by the way, you need to learn how to spell that word and which form you should use)? I cannot believe that after all he has gone through that he would do that. Furhtermore, I didn't like the reference to the teeth in a bag either, or the fact that he had kept incriminating evidence like that around. Trite stuff.

NICI is a total imbecile

It will be interesting to see if you decide to continue their story or not. It could end right here of course, but as with the case of many stories if the characters are drawn in an interesting way, it is fun to see how things really could have ended in the author's mind.

Your retake was well done. You gave the husband a backbone to take control of his own life. In Nici's story, he was far more passive. I greatly enjoyed your take on her tale.

Not well written. For example, this unfortunate mental image due to a word gaff by the author made me laugh out loud: "Our daughter is in her room right now balling her eyes out". Really. Your teenage daughter is having sex in her room at this instant. What kind of people are these? There are additional grammatical blunders and typos in the prose that further detract from the quality of the writing.

<P>

The author evidently has never learned what a section mark is nor how to use them. With the story leaping about from one scene to the next, it would be helpful if he were courteous enough to supply us with a clue that he's about to jump again. He doesn't bother. Thanks for being so considerate.

<P>

The plot is unsatisfying. Jonathon's response to her infidelity is to commit adultery himself. Well, isn't that grand? He debases himself by violating his own marital oath and, for this, he's to be praised? Forget it. He's a scumbag, a true wimp who can't keep his dick in his pants. These two should get divorced because they have no business being married.

<P>

I could continue blowing holes in it but this story isn't worth the trouble. Here's a 25 for your effort.

....and I don't see Susan turning around from deviant sociopath with no empathy for husband to a loving, remorseful unfaithful wife so soon. Or perhaps she was truly capable of empathy, but only for Rich (whom you call Peter here). I don't know. Clearly, the threat of suicide was a ploy, rather convenient for both of the lovers. I still have doubts about the idea of doing my own version of this, because I don't generally do my own version of other people's stories. Or my own endings, for that matter. I prefer to use my own characters and not be bound by the parameters and limitations of the characters. Frankly, I don't see any real room for much growth for Susan. She needs a reality check of a serious nature, before she understands what she has thrown away. Both you and Nici have done well, overall, with creating as much growth and suspense as can be done in such a limited background, however. Still, you changed the name, so I had to deduct points for inaccuracy. But I liked the dream, since it gave her a jolt and forced empathy on her for her hubby's situation. Even so, I doubt that she would even have such a dream or be changed by it if she did. She was so absorbed in her self-delusion and self-justifications that she would need a real epiphany to change. Good try, however.

...I don't see this one as a wimp. He doesn't even cheat, I think. That was a dream of hers. But, even if he did, that would be karmic payback...justice rather than adultery. Once she broke the vows, he is no longer obligated by them. They are broken. The marriage is over, unless they seek to restore it. Really, in cases like that, there should be a renewal of vows to signal that the marriage is really restored...if they reconcile. Personally, I wouldn't reconcile. I have no problem with revenge affairs. Revenge is sometimes the only path to justice. Plain and simple. What's good for the goose and all...besides, he was about to leave her anyway....they were separated...

This story was written as a sequel to the story ‘Something to Talk About’ by nici. Nowhere in that story was the Susan’s adulterous lover identified. nici does name him in her own sequel ‘Between two Lovers’ but that is a separate story. Similarly we know nothing really of the lover’s character except what Susan says in their initial conversation/confrontation. In nici’s sequel he is supposedly a decent person or at least he isn’t a predatory asshole but that is a different story. poorrichard is entitled to develop that character as he chooses. Personally I think he must be a bit of an asshole at the very least because in the original story he supposedly helped Susan prepare for talk with Jonathon by giving her information about divorce. Now maybe he just gave her some facts and she built the extortion threat on her own but that seems doubtful.

These two stories should be looked at based only on the first story by nici and not as re-writes of her two follow-up stories.

Finally the Man wins! I'm so sick of the stories where the woman takes control and forces the man to do things he would never do or dream of doing and then somehow winds up loving it. This is very refreshing to read.

Please don't be offended by alveron53 - he has had writers block for years now and takes it out on misplaced commas and his periods make it worse for him - maybe.

Author - you continue to be a breath of fresh consequential air. You write to the realities of life and a bit of what goes around does indeed come around.

So thanks for your talent, time and imagination. If you are up to it, get out the dart board and start in on just plane bobie.

Best Regards

Good story but need to know the rest. Don't leave us hanging and don't take so long for the next chapter.

and there must be some proverb about ' Make sure you spell things a'right when you criticize.'

A Gaffe (with an 'e') is a verbal error , or error in manners.

A Gaff, though, you use to pull fish into a boat.

But enough pandering to the Whingers, the Tale is a-ok to me.

Nici has put the seal on it, though, with her third entry, A Great Tale, to both of you.

Yours,

Kilroy

I had to comment on your earlier comment. Johnathan didn't fuck anyone in this story. That scene was Susan's dream sequence. Perhaps you were skimming and missed that it was a dream.

Richard, I mostly liked your version of this story. I couldn't give it a 100 though - it might be anal retentive on my part, but spelling counts.

For those of you helping with the critique of my story...thank you. I do apologize for the spelling and grammatical errors....this was my first story done rather spur of the moment and I felt compelled to finish it rather quickly. I wrote most of it in the midst of working three 14 hour days at my real job...finishing up at one am on the third day. I apologize for my seeming "lack of caring about being a bad speller". For those merely being critical...seek therapy.

poorrichard

Who seems to stay in some curious places (in rolling my eyes and in a state of recovery) around our mental globe. (BTW, is that only when you read the stories here?) Your comments caused me not only to laugh but also expressed most of what I wanted to say on this story. It was more than I can credit nici’s story though. *******************

You can be just who you are – so you gradually turned nici’s dark character of the wife who is both a Narcissist and a Sociopath to a character that you could relate to. Sadly, in reality they don’t change with finger snapping. Otherwise I liked your original story. Thank you for the enjoyable read.

Look, this is what I think, in case it wasn't clear enough. Susan is a bit of a twisted sociopath. Plain and simple. That much we agree about. However, she is given a bit of reality check (can of hard to picture with a sociopath, but oh, well) with that dream. That's why I liked the dream. I thought the name change odd, however. No, I don't think he wimped in this one. Her abrupt reversal of attitude seems to have bought just a wee bit of time. That's all.

As for my various states of being....well, I'm ill. I'm entitled to a few moods in the midst of my illness. Just tired of being sick and am ready to recover completely.

Well, Kilroy, that might be true if I spoke the King's English but I don't. The American Heritage dictionary defines "gaff" as "a clumsy social error; a faux pas". Now, since my ancestors kicked the English out of my beloved country on their asses and convinced them not to come back, I'm not required to speak nor write the King's English. Plainly put, ram it sideways. Oh, and have a nice day.

Sorry, SEVERUSMAX, I don't see it your way because two wrongs don't make a right. Divorce is your remedy, not fornication to get even, to get some strange, to inflict some hurt, whatever. The marital contract still exists in the eyes of the court until it is legally dissolved. If you break your oath, you're just as guilty of wrongdoing as the cheating spouse is.

To give credit where credit due – You wish that I did not do it?

I said that you said MOST of what I wanted to say, and then I went on to elaborate on what I wanted to say, addressing the author, not you. **********************

I also said that I liked your sense of humor as seen by the original names and in your postings (I thought I said that I laughed). *******************

I have no idea what jumped your guns.

...but my reasoning is that if marriage in such cases were more than mere red tape, it wouldn't have ended in divorce. Divorce is the law's belated recognition of a practical fact. A paper marriage is nothing but a sham. Once broken, the vows are no longer binding, least of all on an innocent and wronged party. You're asking Jonathan to be celibate until he goes through a year or more of red tape to finalize what everyone already knows is the case? Absurd! Sorry, we can't see eye to eye here. The only biblical concepts I agree with are an eye for an eye and the Golden Rule, provided that the person uses the Golden Rule with you. If they break it, it's back to an eye for an eye. Being a pagan can be quite liberating.

So, you see, you have your take on it. But I don't agree. I disapprove of the original cheating. But not of revenge affairs. Or of relationships with third-parties during separation. Nor do I disapprove of swinging, which I happen to practice myself.

...KOLKORE...I thought that you were addressing with the whole thing. Hence my confusion over your statement.

A stupid wimp and a cheating slut. What a great combination.

Sorry for the confusion on the name change of the boyfriend. When I originally wrote this story I thought Nici had ended it with the first part. That is the way it read to me in the end. I then made up the boyfriend's name as it had not been mentioned in the first part. If I had known at that time Nici was going to submit more I would have waited for her to finish.

poorrichard

...I was being pedantic. Ignore it. I was sick, and such things come out more easily in the short tempers of the sick.

SEVERUSMAX said he abides by "eye for an eye". Frankly, I think Gandhi was right when he spoke of the whole world being blinded by eye for an eye. It's a stupid practice and not one I subscribe to. It is, after all, far too limiting. One you decide to take matters into your own hands, anything's fair game in my opinion since the laws of civilized society no longer apply.

<P>

I apologize to everyone for going off-topic but SEVERUSMAX's comments fascinated me. Evidently, he thinks that once the rules are broken, you're free to do as you will. In most contexts, that's called anarchy. That's a state of affairs that I'd just as soon not see. I guess many people think like he does, that you're entitled to something, entitled to do as you please when you decide the rules no longer apply. In my view, you're not so empowered and, if you break your oath, you're a lying scumbag.

<P>

Oh, before I forget, have a nice day.

...we're not talking about crimes here. Breaking laws. There's no legal recourse for adultery, however. Nor should there. Stoning's truly barbaric. Any kind of state meddling in bedroom matters is. I am speaking of karma here. Adultery is a private matter. Not one for criminal justice. Best handled among private citizens. If we were talking theft, then, yes, let the law at them. Same with murder. But not adultery. It's private. I hold with those libertarians (not anarchists like yevkassem) who believe that the state needs to get out of marriage altogether. Make it less about property and more about personal choices, obligations, promises, and arrangements that suit individuals. We don't need divorce courts and divorce lawyers and red tape. When vows are broken, a relationship should be declared dead on the spot. That way, people like you can't impose celibacy on hapless victims like Jonathan. A double standard is only avoidable in such cases by means of revenge. Denying proportional, karmic vengeance is imposing a double standard on the betrayed and injured party. There's no getting around injustices. I don't buy into cliches of "an eye for an eye, making the world blind" and "two wrongs don't make a right". I prefer philosophy to cliches. I prefer reason, logic, mathematically precise justice. Neither the cruelty and excessive punishment of stoning for adultery, nor slap on the wrist of allowing them to fuck around, while expecting the betrayed partner to be celibate and faithful. That's not fair to him, and if not fair, then something is automatically wrong. To my philosophy, justice is the highest moral good. The greatest virte is equity or justice.

Which is why you and I can never agree. Stop trying to convince, because we see things from entirely different worldviews. I don't condemn people for holding your worldview. It's your right. As Voltaire said, "I disagree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." However, I am of a different mindset. I place justice as the greatest, most important ethical principle of all. A paper marriage, a sham marriage, a failed marriage, should not take precedence over Jonathan's right to avenge himself on Susan by moving on and finding himself a new woman.

You've made a breakthrough! You've FINALLY admitted the Wife is a "Lying Scumbag"! Keep writing, PoorRichard!

The wife in this story is guilty of infidelity and that makes her a lying scumbag because she broke her promise. But her doing so does not release her husband from his marital oath unless his word isn't worth anything. SEVERUSMAX believes that the marriage is over and the marital contract is dissolved the instant either spouse commits infidelity.

<P>

I wonder if that thinking applies to any and all transgressions of the marital contract. Does that mean a failure to honor and obey on her part empowers you to go nail some strange if you want to? I would guess that SEVERUSMAX thinks it does. I don't think so, but I suspect many others here do. Call me old-fashioned if you like, but I think you're bound by your oath until the judge says otherwise. If you break your promise because you think you're entitled to something, then you're a lying scumbag.

<P>

Thought question: which is worse, lying about an affair or having an affair in the first place?

SEVERUS, that response was really interesting. Wrong but interesting. The American legal system does not agree with your notion that there is no recourse for adultery. There is, it's called divorce. It is a legal action undertaken in a court of law. You might not like that and you might think it should be some other way but the truth of it is that marriage is a legal action. Your wishing and hoping doesn't change the fact of the matter.

<P>

As to the karmic nature of adulteries and divorces and justifiable fornications and whatnot, it's moot because we live in a society in which the rule of law is paramount. And that rule of law covers marriage and divorce whether you think it should or not. In America, a marital contract is legally binding and a marriage license is a legal document. You can wish there it weren't so but it is so. Whether it should be so or not can debated but that debate concerns what should be, not what is. If you want to live in a fantasy world, don't let me stop you.

<P>

If you think that my beliefs are cliched, that's fine. They've been called a lot worse than that. I think your beliefs are philosophical mumbo jumbo. Now that we've each used harsh language fu, honor has been satisfied, and we can stop boring the rest of humanity with this worthless dialog.

<P>

Good day.

Together with other readers, and if you read the text carefully you will find that there is no way to reasonably understand the following sequence as anything other than a dream. *****************************

Following are the exact quotes of the sequence of the text from before the beginning of the dream to the beginning of it , and then to the description of its end and through her waking and after she wakes up. *********************

They have their confrontation and then: “Finally she decided to go to bed herself. She was also feeling as tired as she had ever felt. Though she tossed and turned for some time, she eventually fell into a troubled sleep.”

Immediately after that starts the dream sequence. It would make no sense in any other context. “She heard the moans as soon as she walked through the door…..” Walking through the door does not connect or make sense as a description of reality if she just fell asleep You would need some segment that connects the two(like hearing noises, waking up, searching for the source, then entering). This is true especially after the detailed description of her activities up to her falling asleep. Moreover, the daughter’s casual comment is totally against the child’s real character (see her previous strong reaction to just observing her mother kissing while dressed with another dressed man). But here she casually comments: “…..Don't they look good together? Is she going to be my new mommy?” In addition, there is no further mention of this highly disturbing scene. Had it been a real sex scene, the wife would have mentioned at least the daughter’s exposure, something which both parents agreed on. The description of her waking up is typical to waking from a nightmare, including the screaming the sweating over the sheets (if she was not sleeping why would be the sheets wet with sweat?) and the elevated heart beat: “NNNOOOOO, she screamed. Suddenly she was sitting up in bed, wondering who had screamed. Then she realized the scream had come from her. The linens were drenched in sweat and her heart was beating wildly.” Then she is starting to process the meaning of her dream; she is starting to see how it feels to be on the receiving end of the cheating divide (unlike the wife in nici’s version): “Unable to sleep, she lay in bed and tried to think.” ******************It’s up to you of course to debate the merits or faults of remaining loyal to a cheating spouse in the abstract. I just wanted to redirect you back to this story and to the fact that it does not apply here.********* BTW, hope your state of sickness is improving,if not gone altogether...

...I'm glad that someone pays attention here. As for my philosophy vs. Alvaron's belief, I personally don't think that divorce is much of a punishment. And I maintain my belief that it's not living in a fantasy world to attempt to move on with one's life by getting a head start on one's new relationships with the opposite sex. Waiting for a paper or sham marriage to end strikes me as sheer folly. You can bet that Susan isn't waiting, and I see no reason to hold Jonathan to a double standard that benefits his cheating wife at his expense. That strikes me as an inequity, an injustice. And a very unfair and impractical code of moral conduct. But, suit yourself, Alvaron. I just wonder if you will still feel that when walking in Jonathan's shoes, which I hope never happens. I hope that your wife stays faithful and you never know what it is to be betrayed and need a personal satisfaction of honor and vengeance. My personal motto is "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit". It's Latin for "None harm me with impunity". It's an aristocratic code of honor, I guess.

But, unless you've been stuck in his shoes, having people judge you for moving on with your life and getting payback, you'll never grasp this. I just hope that your wife doesn't make the same mistakes that Susan does and your beliefs are never tested. Even if you might change your views.

...in the interests of reasonable accomodation and peace, I have the following suggestion. I'll accept your guideline the moment that swingers, polygamists, and other poly types are exempted, and also on the condition that a cheated spouse gets an automatic quickie divorce. After all, that would be the only good net result of making your policy law or enforcing it; quickies would become the rage and divorce lawyers would be out of work. LOL.

Oh, and KOLKORE, I forgot to thank you for the well-wishing. Yes, my health is improving, not a moment too soon.

If Jonathan breaks the wedding vows, he is little different than Susan. I added that ‘little’ caveat, as the circumstances are different. I can’t see how Jonathan is harmed by celibacy. It’s not an illness and no one needs to have sex to survive. I would agree that divorce is not much of a punishment.

Now, I would like someone to explain to me how the legal system can be concerned with the marriage as a legal contract but ignore the provisions thereof. Logically, if the contract is a legal entity then the violation of any of its provisions is actionable in a court of law. Am I missing something?

Lastly Alvaron, how do you get Lit to give you paragraph breaks when the rest of us can’t have them?

Phil

...it's not that it will kill him. It's that it is an injustice to set one rule, practically speaking, for one party, while a different one for another. Not allowing some kind of escape clause for a betrayed spouse strikes me as an oversight that creates great injustices. To me, he is still morally superior, because he is the wronged party here. Susan isn't wronged by his revenge. She gets her just desserts. But I'm not surprised to see you siding with appeasing the wife. It seems to be your stock in trade.

I note that no one has addressed my proposed solution. Typical.

The injustice is not about sex; that’s trivial. The injustice is in the divorce proceedings. In the case of infidelity, the threshold should be low and reasonable. The divorce should be quick (four weeks or less) and the offending party should be on the street with nothing but the clothes on their back. In other words, there should be real punishment that makes other people sit up and take notice. Since most cheaters are men, and serial cheaters at that, there would be serious societal disruption. My guess is that’s the real reason why few want to use divorce as a punishment. Too many people would be caught in the dragnet.

Phil

...I disagree with the idea of impoverishing someone, depriving of their earnings, their possessions, and their life's work, even over adultery. However, I do agree with a quick divorce. My thinking is that the punishment should fit the crime. Poverty is a penalty out of karmic proportion to the offense (adultery). Instead, in my view, the betrayed spouse should just prior to the divorce be permitted a night to copulate with whomever he or she wishes for the duration of the evening. Call it an escape clause. It's not definitely cheating, is it, if it's not hidden or in defiance of the civil contract. When the evening is over, the offending spouse should certainly get to keep what they brought into the marriage, as well as their half of the settlement, but alimony should be automatically cancelled if they are normally due it, and they should be denied primary custody on the grounds that they are oath-breakers and thus would set a bad example of ethics. By the way, according to the latest stats, 40% of women cheat. Seems that they are catching up with men in that regard, or perhaps just being more honest about it these days than in the past. That's if you're going to make marriage a civil contract.

I still personally think it better to make marriage an informal matter, with the ceremony optional, and licenses a thing of the past (why should we need licenses to commit to someone, whether in an open marriage, polygamy, or monogamy; to me, it smacks of medieval, feudal rights, where the sovereign or lord could veto or coerce a marriage). Basically, if you want a religious ceremony, fine. If you just want to move in together, that's also okay. The artificial distinctions between marriage and common-law marriage would be reduced to a ritual, as they should be. All that one would have to do to end a marriage is move out. No costly divorces. No formal dissolution. No annullments. No red tape. No lawyers. Details worked out among the exes through compromise and mediation, not judges and attorneys. Sounds cheaper, easier, more efficient, and more reasonable. No poverty. No one taken to the cleaners. No one deprived of their lawful property or life's savings. A lot fewer societal disruptions.

I'm not advocating the abolition of law courts, just divorce courts. Family law should be automatically arbitrated. Divorce should be a simple de-cohabitation. Criminal and regular civil law courts would still exist, so don't worry, lawyers. You can still live off others, just not off their sexual and romantic relationships. No more pre-nups needed, either.

After reading yours I went back and read the story by nici. She should pay you for showing her how to write! As her work stinks! I would love to read more from you.

SeverusMax said: "...I disagree with the idea of impoverishing someone, depriving of their earnings, their possessions, and their life's work, even over adultery."

Awwwwwww...the poor little adulterer fall down go boom.

As for "karmic proportion", spare us the pedantic tripe.

If anyone had ripped your soul out and took a shit on it, and desecrated something that precious to you I seriously doubt you'd be so condescending towards those whom it really happened to.

However, that one like yourself would feel pity for such a selfish bastard doesn't surprise me.

What happened to Peter is the least that he deserved.

Myself, if i were the author, Peter would have faired far worse than he did.

But the ending as it was was still satisfying.

Maybe Peter should have considered the consequnces of his actions before he did what he did.

here's some karma for you: pray that what you sow doesn't reap you a bumper crop.

Or in other words: payback's a bitch.

...To see the cheating, lying, whoring fucking cunt bitch(okay, I got a few issues!)sloppy titted slimy hobag knocked down at court for the count. No such thing as "No-Fault" divorces when two people get the big 'D' as a result of provable and witnessed adultery (by the PI) AND there is an element of deliberate and Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress (IIED) involved as a secondary complaint. This is what is called a "Mitigating Factor" and will turn around even a Georgia or California divorce. Both of those ho-bags are gonna have to pay hubster; Spousal Suport and a decision in favor of the husband against the 'paramour' for molesting the wife sexually in front of the little girl on the grounds of 'Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress' will cripple both of their little purses! And for a VVVVEEEERRRRYYYYY Long Time...

Where did that miserable tirade from Alvaron53 & side-kick idiot TiggerToo evolve from? Professional commentators should stick to the rag magazines.

Avalron is right in mant regards, for one...the story does in fact jump sequences a bit too hasily for it to be easy to digest

A story needs good flow. Context wise, good. Nothing amazing..but good.

Unfortunately......Avalron said the hubby is a scum bag for breaking vowes, he is a very poor reader..the author made it clear that was a dreamquence from the wife's mind...no doubt her once dead conscience catching up to her.

I agree that the hubby would be a fool to cheat to get even. But not for the same reason. Technically, a judge sets up the contract....and so....tech....once the wife or husband breaks said contract..it is null and void BUT for the sake of convenience....you should not revenge cheat..until the divorce is don and you've made the law system run far more smoothly. I mean, if the wife here pointed out an infidelity (if he commited it in retaliation) then it makes the porocess mesy.

An eye for an eye makes the world blind......some people deserve to die avalron....war is just natures way of proving I'm right. Your precious Law is broken and people wage war....the government gets tons of cash and goods..and land...and we take a nice chunk outta a competitive market.

There is limited resources....and people are growing at an exponential rate. Survival of the fittest..only I'm not gonna lie about it with laws. I KNOW humans compete for resources. Only solution here is allowing the old ways, continuing with unjustified wars, or re establishing self justice and vindication. A state of nature so to speak.

Barbaric..but efficient.

the wife was hooked and stayed. that confession was the result of the sense of inevitability of disclosure. he's done w her (for good i would hope) and peter, paid a serious price too. and husband, the opportunity to console more women

No settlement, no child support, no custody, and limited visitations. Her own daughters walking in on her and her lover would be enough for her to lose custody and for limited visitations. It is really silly for a woman to say I want responsible and I dont know why I did that. It is really easy to understand. They have no ethics, no morals, no standards, and they really dont love nor respect their husbands. Basically a lot of women think with their cunts and want sperm. It was silly the statement she was a good mother made in the story. A good mother doesnt go off having affairs, doesnt have a man in the house, and doesnt disrespect a husband that feeds his family. No for a year she wasnt a good mother, she was just a woman that lived in the house.

Another author no matter what a spouse does he has to be in fantasy land and get them back together.He even gave her the kids, what world does he live in, she screwed somebody for a year told her husband that she love her lover and would take him to the cleaners her young daughter caught them, found out what kind of man her lover was a prick.She doesn't work so the husband paying for her to see a marriage counsellor, she got the kids i don't think so peter pan.

plausible enough continuation of Nici's story, until the last part. Once John hires a PI it is all downhill into, revenge city.

Story is too melodramatic and has too many cliches. Things like "bring home the bacon" are not meant to be used in this setting.

I think the other guy described it pretty well in regards to the lack of flow. There's no emotion to the story, much like reading a kindergarten storybook.

Good for Jonathan for not sinking to a level that's below him. He got his well-deserved revenge against Peter. Meanwhile he maintained his compassion, if not love, for Susan after realizing that she (and Jonathan) had been played by an expert player. There are some real assholes out there like this Peter character who pray on naive and good-hearted women. Still, Jonathan absolutely has to leave Susan. If they get back together again many years down the road is another matter. It'll be good if they just get divorced and stay amicable so they can be good parents to the kids. The marriage should definitely be over. For now.

A counselor cant remove a year of adulterous sex nor the intended placing a risk of her husband and childrens health by her actions. Actually a civil suit against her might be a nice action due to the health risk.

It wasnt downhill to revenge when it went to the PI. It was downhill and towards revenge at her first private meeting with the guy, sex or not. Married people have a legal contract with each other and when one breaks the contract the downhill roll is already started. In fact in reality it is the commitment to each other that engagement or "going steady" makes that was broken before the marriage vows. Nope this woman is a loser on all levels besides being patently stupid.

So we don't know if he went through with the divorce or if he dumped the bitch and got it on with the hotty from the gym.

It was an excellent read and I personally enjoyed the keep sake teeth in the plastic bag,,,, a fitting reward for a rightous warrior. R.T.

Finally, another husband with a backbone. Make note of that you dicksmokers out there mascarading as men!

that is what all the other husbands lack and made the other stories really unbelieveable

I am not as literate as some of the other commenters but I kinda like this story so far. As to Nici's story, it was about different characters than these three, as other commenters have said. Although I do agree with the commenters that say having revenge sex is wrong when one spouse has cheated.

I say that because I just became indifferent to my former wife after she did. I no longer thought of her as a loyal and loving spouse. I just used her for highly gratifying sexual purposes until I left.

It took me a while finding someone else that I hoped would stay loyal and faithful. Taking the moral highground does give you some solace when your pride and ego has been deflated by someone you trusted. I mean, why become a lowlife like the cheater? Well...unless you want to stay married for other reasons, and then it becomes kind of an open marriage I would suppose.

I got lucky and found someone that fit into that 50-60 per cent profile that hasn't cheated. The irony is...she has a low sexual libido much unlike the first wife. Does that have anything to do with not cheating? I mean, what the hell do I know after 45 years of marriage to two different women? That's why I read all these damn cheating stories and comments!

wronged, tell the other that they love the other but they hate them too. It's too inconsistent to believe when emotions are running so high. You're not going to tell the wife that you love her, while you're hurt or enraged about her being unfaithful. It makes the action seem inconsequential and takes the tension out of the event.

Was he to busy gargling the cum from his wife's lovers creampie? Still one of the good ones!

Story. Jeeeez this was a good read, but there is no finality (typical of many authors sadly). Did they divorce, did he find true love, did she commit suicide, did he forgive her, did she have a medical problem, did they reconile and celebrate their 15th anniversary?????? What happens next? Too many unanswered questions. He kept his wedding ring, is that significant? Since this was written 4 years ago, we will probably never know. UNLESS, another author takes up the challenge... And... FINISHES it!

You didn't like the finish of the originl story and set out - here, to finish it properly...well, you didn't succeed!

The pictures of his wife at Peters' door - not timed? He is going to counseling with her?

You didn't finish - you tried to steal another mans' work...shame!

SO FINISH THE STORY.. one year of cheating, i would never give her another chance`, how dumb this women is..to be coned by a player and give up her marriage and normal life..

I did not comment on your first installment, as I was curious to see how you would resolve this little drama. Your first installment picked up my hopes somewhat, but the second put paid to my expectations.

The original story was dreadful, as I tried to explain to nici as constructively as possible. Susan's character was simply too over the top, in direct violation of the author's goal. She was a complete villain, without any redeemable quality whatsoever. You did somewhat resolve this issue, as we were given some justification for her behavior. It was also nice for us to see this shattered man pick up his life and put a plan of action together that would somewhat give him back his self respect.

Yet even in your version, the wife has gone from sadist to idiot. She seems to have all the reasoning ability of a ditch carp. Granted, there was not much to build on from the original story, given the completely unrealistic character Susan was. To add to the total mess, Jonathan comes up lacking as well. While he initially starts out as a heroic but shattered man, valiantly dealing with the outrage thrust upon him, he finally morphs into a milquetoast. To see a man confronted with the confrontation of the initial story, added to the fact that his own daughter was exposed to this disgusting tryst, was an outrage that could not be justified by any rational man. Any man, no matter his strength emotionally, would have been emotionally scarred by these events. Yet Jonathan becomes a man living in the same house with this vile and disgusting woman. We even see him participating in counseling with her! The man is a veritable saint, and this miraculous forgiveness cannot be too much admired.

Perhaps poorrichard, I am being too hard on you. As I have said, you didn't have a great deal to work with from the beginning. Yet, though you somewhat resolved some issues from the original, there were still too many holes left unfilled. The ending was completely unsatisfying as well. We are still left unsatisfied as to what the continuing relationship between these two incredibly contradictory characters will be. In the end, I gave you the same rating as I did for nici. One star.

No matter what the other comments say, You gave Jonathan the balls that Nici took away from him. That alone makes this a decent redux of Nici's crap.

OH YEAH

I like the way the ending was left open for someone else to add their two cents. Thanks for sharing.

I am glad that you included her 'revelation' regarding what she had done by letting her see it from the reverse, Nici never seemed to grasp that particular nettle in her version but following the epilogue perhaps we can now see why.

Keep writing as I like your story telling but this ending felt a little rushed.

The slut still didn't get justice served to her. Same old story..seeing a counselor to justify her cheating actions. Far better for him to kick the bitch to the curve and leave her in as much pain as possible. And, we all know Nici is a slut herself.

I keep wondering what happened to them. It felt like you rushed through the ending and I'm left to write my own ending. BAH!

hell no problem read my "Before the End" and i provide a fucking ending, i kill the bitch. oups, did i say that out loud.

If this was your ending, then you failed. This isn't an ending. It's a to-be-continued failure because you didn't continue. BARF!

the story was nice, but it would have been a lot better if you had given it a proper ending.

just my thought, good job and keep writing !

finish it.

Best story with a happy ending I have read in ages.

Is it just me or is the whole situation still unresolved?

btw: not a smart move to keep the DNA, I mean teeth, as a trophy.

He did not need to hire a P.I. An admission of a year's worth of cheating was all he needed to determine whether to keep or dump her. I am not always with the BTB crowd, but this bitch needed burning. One incongruity: Why was he playing with Brandi when one or more of his kids were home?

everyone makes mistakes, big ones and small ones. in my past I have found that most guys will never admit they made a mistake, even if its in front of them, but a woman will. maybe its a macho thing, I don't know, but she did seek counseling, before the divorce papers were filed.

The ending seemed hurried.