All Comments on 'Out of Love Ch. 04'

...These characters just don't track. It's an interesting tale, don't get me wrong. Well written as well. But the characters, their motivations, their actions, etc, just don't make a lick of sense. I kept hoping something would click, but none of it does.

And I REALLY don't understand the swapping AFTER all of this fiasco happened.

This was a great story. It did a great job of exposing the interactions of good but flawed people (we're all flawed) who care for one another but live in different universes. It provided a way to look into the complex world of people dealing with problems and growing to be better people (less flawed). I enjoyed it greatly. Love does win in the end.

Would easily fork out 250k for a friendship, but can't get off their arses to help him get rid of a tree. could've avoided the whole charade.

Lest we all forget, and this was never addressed from CH1: "J... I.... there has been no one else for me. I will admit I tried again with Jim and Kathy and Mark and Wendy but it... just felt wrong and forced without you."

How conveniently forgotten. The bitch cheated on him, with ALL the coconspirators after the cabin. Yet our intrepid hero forgets all about that? Rubbish.. Where is the plot continuity??? I expected him to blast them all. What a dud.

Honestly I was enjoying this chapter up until the reconcile for the reason above, AND then you go and change Jace from a monogamous man to one who NOW enjoys swapping and threesomes? Geeee, wasn't that a major problem for him in CH 1, watching his wife fuck Jim???? But now it's okay?? WTF??? So instead of working it through, you simply change him. A copout, a plain fucking copout. What a shame.

Another author from the school of Katmai.. Great start, shaky middle, total collapse in the end.

Pity, so much potential. Learn from it Katmai Jr.

Either because you have psychiatric training or you just think too much, you really screwed up the ending of this tale. Under no circumstances does a situation such as this end up with any kind of favorable resolution. Also there is an extreme case of malpractice against the slut shrink. Like my comment at the end of ch.3, Jace should have just took off without looking back.

Kudos for the extremely well written tale but the conclusion needs a serious redux.

While I may have penned a different ending, you're the author and it's your story. Overall a good read for your first effort. I can tell this chapter was very rushed. Way too many spelling mistakes, omitted words and even word tense. It detracted from a decent story.

I would like to see you write again. Maybe next time, get an editor. At least he/she could catch the spelling problems. Good luck!!

So, from me, a straight forward "1."

I don't believe the writer is a man. This story is a chick flick with a woman's happy ending. It is better than most of the stuff on this site and is different but in the end not satisfying. How do you go back to the wife that cheated on you and conspired against you? It seems like he was the victim of malpractice by Amy/Jessica. It is unethical to have sex with a patient under false circumstances. The idea that you could have J rebuild his self-worth through his relationship with Amy and then expect him to be ok when he finds it also is false is nuts.

The writer needs to write from experience. Guys who have been friends for life through their 40's would not do this. Guys don't have costume parties and send one guy with an ax and a saw to take care of a tree by himself. A computer nerd would be a broken mess if he spent all day by himself chopping, sawing and moving an oak tree. He would have come back ready to kill when he saw the partying scene with the half naked wives. It didn't need to have him wake up to the unfaithful whore fucking his best friend. If J is such a great lover, why can't he get Chloe to cum except on rare occasions but the friend can first time?

I look forward to your next story. Hope it is a little more plausible. This was a good first effort.

First things first...

He says there is still hurt and mistrust. I'm not sure I understand why. Once he willingly started swinging with his wife at the end, it seems all that would be gone. He willingly gives his wife to another man and then takes her back. How can he still be hurt? How is that even possible given everything he went through?! How on earth did she agree to allow that after almost losing everything the first time she tried it? Actually, that scenario doesn't fit the rest of the story. Given everything that happened previously, it was too great a risk. This is why the last two paragraphs are a curiousity for me. It is almost like you were wrestling between two story's and couldn't decide which to go with. Was this a story about a guy who is betrayed, used and abused? Or, was it about a guy struggling with whether he wants to be a swinger? I loved the story and give it five stars. I even understand him going back with his wife at the end. Actually, I thought it could go either way. But I don't think you were successful in interweaving both these storylines. Ultimately, I think you were so successful at building up the betrayal and hurt, that there really was no way for you to successfully bring back the pro-swinging sentimentality. It was a hole too deep to get out of. Not sure how anyone could read this and not end up hating people in the lifestyle and thinking all swingers are manipulative and selfish.

What a great story and going really well until the end. The main character having gone to great lengths to pint out how he had been manipulated and lied to just rolls over forgives everybody and all of s sudden all is well. Got a 1 for a dreadful, rushed and totally contrasted ending to the rest of the story.

Especially the BTB crowd, but I guess love conquers all. Jim and Mark deserved a smack at least, if not a gut shot. And since the plan was to put Jace back together with sex from beautiful women AND he still has a threesome coming, he can only be so mad with how things turned out...since he can still keep seeing the stripper.

Good tale. Very entertaining.

He should have killed them all. And outed the professional whore. WHat a great group of liars and cheats. Why the fuck did you have them get back together?!!

to create a plot that varies from the wife cheated and the husband throws her out, or sells her into slavery in Mexico. That 'Gorillia' commenter nailed this ending for us yesterday and once I read his thoughts, realized he was probably right. This was well conceived and the chapters were broken in the proper places. I have great admiration for the effort made to give us a new plot. I do not understand the reason for the chopped up delivery style that stops the flow now and then. An example? "then had by another one and apologize profusely the barista" WTF? It is more than an error. It is a series of errors in one sentence. This odd break down in meaning and wording occurs far too often. The editor was asleep at the wheel. I have to give it a five simply because of the plot. It was very well conceived. The odd behaviors made sense in the end. I will say that the impression I get of our hero is a guy that would not swap or do threesomes after the misery he went through. What was the lure for group sex? It ruined his marriage for a while and he needed to know that his wife would be faithful to him, so he goes for swapping? I felt that last paragraph hurt the integrity of the story. All in all, great effort.

The simplest thing to say is that HDK said it all....

He went through all this shit and was supposedly this man of integrity that stood by his principles, but took back his wife and hopped into the swinging life style. So much for his integrity.

I hope it will be your last attempt to throw up your psychosis on this site

Stupid bull shit. What he should've done is went back to the apartment and then the kindly Dr. Jeckyl turns into Mr Hyde... he ties up them two bitches. Then he should've abused the shit out of both of them. This last chapter should've been posted in the BDSM section not loving wives... He should've humiliated both, especially sending Wendy home with many bruises and other marks. He should have given them both the golden shower and had them clean his dick with their mouthes after he ass fucked each of them in turn. It would've been nice payback to send Wendy home to her asshole hubby after doing that to her. After discovering Dr. Ingram he should've recorded evrything including how she was paid for it and then outed her and turned her in. Destroy her "Group" and get her arrested for prostitution. Bottom line is there ain't no white knight in the history of the world who would ever put up with all this betrayal and humiliation without becoming a black knight bent on revenge. Reason why... because humanity is not inherently good. The white knight or heros in mankind are a small, extremely rare occurance... an aberration. And they are always, always fucked over by the people around them.

Not easy to write an in depth thing like this. What many non writers don't appreciate is how hard it can be to keep the continuity going. The things you write in the very first paragraph can come back and bite you in the bum in the last one if you don't keep constantly on top of it.

Well done I say. Let's have another.

So I have to agree that I was right on board with you until the ending where he agrees to swapping. For me, after all the deceptions and manipulations were revealed, I feel that may be he could realize that his one true love was Chloe and reconciled with her....BUT! The but is...move the FUCK AWAY PERMANENTLY from these people. It seems like they had portable jobs. They should move to like Florida or something, to get the fresh start they needed to move on. Getting away from the manipulators for good, ceasing all contact forever. Getting Jim and Mark to understand that the friendships were over and for the first time in 7 months, they would have to DEAL with it. Money can't fix every problem, or lesson the betrayal. But to wrap it up with him agreeing to swing, goes against all of the character traits you instilled in this guy all throughout the story arc (and even the reason for the doctor slut to want to author the paper on him). May be you can justify that since Pandora's box was open, and that they have all ready slept with other's, that they can never go back, so might as well embrace it. However, for me, the best path for healing would have been to point out how sex with others is EXACTLY what destroyed their lives in the first place. They best healing for J and Chloe would be the reaffirmed commitment to fidelity. Chloe should have felt JUST as manipulated and used throughout this. She should have been the one who insisted that as soon as she got her man back, she would NEVER let anyone come between them again. Well jezzaz, it WAS a thought provoker, and you did a good job with the twists and turns, and I found myself looking forward to seeing how this all might turn out, so I thank you for good work. I hope you keep writing, as your strong contributions to this site have been appreciated.

This was like some mystery where the detective figures out all the subterfuge at the end connecting all the hidden dots. The biggest difference is that the detective and victim were one in the same. So to me that doesn't work as well because that means he had to be so ultimately clueless and brilliant at the same time. Even then it was okay until the "doctor" had to intervene one more time. Frankly, for me that would have broken the mood and any hope would have been instantly flushed down the toilet. I think she should have simply remained quiet and let him make that realization for himself. If she didn't realize that making everyone uncomfortable was as cathartic as anything she did to heal him then she wasn't really that much of a "super head shrinker" anyway. BTW, tell me the difference between unconventional psychologist and high priced call girl?

you have got to be a fucking idiot. She's a fuck tramp with slut written all over her face and the friends are just as fucked up as the whore he's married to. Don't quit your day job. -1 stars

Yay another wimpy RAAC. What was the point of the conversation or him getting angry! This was bullshit because NO MAN manipulated to that extent would take the woman back. There is simply no possible way to trust any of those people again. I'm sorry dude but you really dropped the ball with the ending and it fucked the whole story up!!!

Your story, your choices. Well written. I'll grant you that. It was a good read.

But J, from the beginning, comes across as someone with problems. The story does not end in a way where he confronts them. Everyone repeatedly says what a great guy he is, what a decent guy. Yet all his actions speak of an unforgiving, self-righteous, ego-centric maliciousness personality.

I see two alternatives. One: he has poor judgement, judged his so-called wife and best friends incorrectly. In which case, he made an error, was not living in the ideal world he thought he was in. So, he should admit his own error, stop blaming the others, and leave.

Two: he was correct in his first judgements about them, and what earned the wife and best-friends relationships. Yes, they made an error. But if his original assessment was correct, then what's motivating him to flog their remorse to death? Where is the understanding decent guy? Again, the problem comes back to him. At some level there is an immaturity in how J thinks and behaves. Hammering on about how they have to understand him, somehow making all of his own behavior OK, while everyone else hangs their head in shame.

The story doesn't get into either of these alternatives, and that's why the story fails. It only delivers the wronged man where everyone else is at fault, and he punishes punishes punishes endlessly. But he's still fucked up.

Well written...

As I have noted before...ignore the anonymous talentless buffoons...

and please keep that imagination and the pen to the task...

thnx...

Five stars. Very original and very well written. That said, I have a few serious problems with the outcome (doesn't everyone?).

First and foremost is the covert sex therapist. To perform therapy without the consent of the patient is unethical. Pure and simple. It removes the patients right to refuse treatment and is wrong on a lot of levels. To do so while deceiving the patient into thinking that you have a true relationship and care about him in a more then professional context would not only be unethical but would cause huge amounts of harm to the patient.

What the good doctor is communicating is that lying, manipulating and dishonesty are acceptable to get what you want. In this case what she wanted was to heal her patient and recover his marriage but that is secondary. It could as easily have been some other goal. The wife held the same world view when she stated that she would do anything to get her husband back. In both these cases the statement is that what they want is more important then honesty, honor and trust. In both cases they are attempting to take away the patient/husbands ability to choose for himself what his life will be. What they want and think matter more then his right to choose. This makes them both unethical and untrustworthy. Good intentions or not, it is not their call.

It is not my right to decide for you, regardless if I think I know best. If I do so through lies and manipulation, all that teaches you is that I am horribly untrustworthy. You might even come to the conclusion that I was helpful, despite the scorched earth consequences these kinds of actions are most likely to achieve, but would you ever trust me again? Would you ever want to have a relationship with me knowing I could and would lie to you anytime I thought I knew better or what I wanted was more important? Not likely. Not likely in the extreme.

Without that understanding the ending remains unsatisfying to me. The hero is surrounded by people that have wronged him in really deep ways and yet they don't even seem to understand what they have done, much less made amends by changing their beliefs and yet he chooses to stay in these relationships (more or less).

Unlike many readers I have no problem with his acceptance of group sex at the end. The issues were never about group sex. They were always about dishonesty, manipulation and others trying to take away his right to make decisions for himself about his own life; whether to be part of a marriage that includes group sex, whether to see a sex therapist to heal, whether to have a relationship with that sex therapist outside of a professional capacity. The answers are not important. The right to make them is. The dignity and respect to not be lied to in an attempt to have that right taken way is.

All that being said, it was a wonderfully written story which got me totally invested in the characters. I ranted at the wrong doing and cheered for the hero and enjoyed each section, waiting impatiently for the next part of the story to come out. I thought it was very original and creative and I hope you keep writing and offering us the chance to read your exceptional work.

Francis Toliver

It was a very well written story. Kudos for that. Very entertaining, too. But endings make or break a story. And your ending broke this story. It just didn't make sense. J had a problem with group sex and seeing his wife get banged, but then becomes a swinger at the end of the story? What was the point of all his struggles? The resolution of getting his heart broken because his wife cheated on him to willingly letting other men sleep with her? Just doesn't make sense. And you really had a great story on your hands.

How is this a good story, the protagonist gets shit on all through the story and at the end just accepts the fact that his wife and closest friends not would only lie but manipulate him to make themselves feel better. Why not just castrate him also and have his wife get gangbanged while he sits and watches again.

Mr good guy got waylaid and now does threesomes,goes back after all that manipulation to a deceitful wife. Some friends who needs enemies . Amy for blood money sells her services.Mr goodguy is a sucker here for taking her back and moving his relationship on to others. So much for monogamy . The author did well in this chapter until the last few. Paragraphs where he killed the story.r

You made it unbelievable at the end. How after all he stood for you made him into something he was not .now back with a deceitful wife and friends who need to be trashed he moves on to multiple sex adventures. Where did that come from.???

I wasn't sure for a while but you pulled it out. Good job.

I think you lose stars because your character is extremely well defined and yet at the end ... you miss that he didn't care about "Amy", especially since you reveal he knew something was going on with her as some sort of set-up. When his entire character has been about trust and "chivalry" you don't switch that at the end. It leaves a bad taste.

I thought you did a nice job coming up with a plot that you also hid pretty well. The end gets kind of talky. There's really no reason to have him say all that stuff. You can have him realize it in his head and reduce the dialogue to what people actually say. In this case, he'd want to know how much Chloe was in on it. And he'd want verification from "Amy". The rest is already known and sounds kind of like the typical explanation by the villain when the good guy is in chains and the villain just can't shut up.

First:

They made up a very complicated scheme which could not succeed because of too many possibilities to fail. So why does anybody in this world come up with something like that and even at that costs? Not plausible for me!

Second:

If Chloe was so much in love with her husband, why did she join the plot in Montana at all? There were so many deceptions on her side even before the final fuck-up (not sharing what she new about the swinging lifestile of their friends, making a fool of him by cheating with straws just to get him out of the way during the day, feeding lots of alcohol to him instead talking to him to "get him on-board" for a planned orgy), and a real loving wife would not have joined that orgy alone with her husband asleep. Maybe some of her actions that evening can be assigned to drugs and alcohol, but not her scheming before. Not a believable action given her seemingly innocent character portrayed afterwards!

Third:

How come that Chloe thought a threesome with married Wendy would heal J's feelings for his wife? That is plain stupid, given the history of the marriage - which failed because of group sex! This was a twist I could not come to grips with. Even given all the facts about the plot - why did she get Wendy into this at all? She had better chances alone with her husband. Not a logical plot, author!

Fourth:

Chloe could never have been such an unknowing bystander in the whole scheme as we are made to believe. If Mark, Jim or their wifes did not tell her about the plans, why did she play along? Why did she take the asshole into her home? Why did she go to Amy's place and how would that connection have been explained if Jace would have questioned it? There is no way to explain her actions without a lot of active conspiracy.

Fifth:

Why didn't Jace ask about the connection between "Amy" and Chloe when the latter came to Portland? Why didn't he ask how Chloe could borrow a sexy dress from Kathy if she was living all the time in Amy's flat without - seemingly - any intention to go dating in Portland and not having gone home all the time? In the end Jace outs himself as a clever detective. Unbelievable that he played the dumbass before!

Conclusion:

Who in this world takes back such a conniving bitch, who even must be a very good actres in playing the devastated wife at Amy's place?

Sorry author - the rest of the story was far better tha this final "solution" of the riddle.

Having voted 4 our 5 stars for the other parts, this was just a good 3 *** for me.

Good story, liked the twists and turns of the friends efforts to undo their deed. Definetly he needs to borrow the schoolgirl outfit for the wife, maybe borrow the Dr too, repeat the halloween night with the wife.

As complex as a good murder mystery. Not only a whodunit but why and how?

I'm sure some of the drooling, knuckle-dragging Neanderthals will be outraged that your hero did not kill all the women.

Well done. Intricately plotted. Your denouement had all the flair of Hercule Poirot tying up the details on the Calais Coach.

Keep writing.

Pooling on the floor from the bullet hole between Amy's/Jessica's eyes. It was remarkable he thought, they all looked so peaceful lying there so still and quite. Funny how lies turn I to lying... on the floor he thought. The door swung closed as J walked into his new life without the losers once considered as friends. Wonder what WonTon is up to ???

Good story........I like the ending and the way you did it.

My question remained WHY HAVE NOT THESE PAIRS ANY CHILDREN????????

Why did not the Author give any explanation about the childless living????

More things come from the childless living.

really great writing loved the story and was spell bound to finish it!! Well balanced and very himanistic. A terific cit with the other top end writers on this site such as SS06 FD45 and others. Will be looking for your next story and thanks for sharing

Funny childless characters. The 85% of the women like children. If do these women characters belong to the 15% of the women, which hate children bringing up???

For me this is very interesting, because I wead here in LW such stories, where the author explained why the above 30 years old couple characters live without children.

Interesting.............and strange...........

Yep, if you read my comment from Chapter 3, then you can see that I totally called it. However, I am a little disappointed by the ending. He just seems to me to be too forgiving. These people lied and manipulated him practically from the get go and he seems to be reasonably okay with it. Sure, he is angry, but he still socializes with them. Also, this Doctor Ingram is out there violating pretty much every ethical standard that exists in her profession, but he seems okay with it. How could he ever trust any of them again? All they did was lie to him and use his emotions to make themselves feel better. They even admit to it. They say the reason they do it is because they feel bad about wrecking his marriage. They want to get Chloe and J back together to make themselves feel less guilty.

Personally. I would have had him cut off all contact with the others, have used what he knows to expose Doctor Ingram's group (through social media and traditional means) and possibly divorced Chloe. I am not convinced the swapping wasn't something she hadn't done before. She seemed a little too eager to keep it a secret and jumped right in. I don't care how drunk and high you are, you don't just jump into a situation like that without having either done it or at a minimum, having spent a lot of time thinking and fantasizing about it. Maybe I would have offered a little bit of redemption and had the epilogue state that maybe they began dating again a few years later.

and that is what was so good about this story. I appreciated that you spent time making me understand the protagonist's motivations and that they acted within the confines of their character. Sure, sometimes people do things that aren't in their character, but Jace has a very clear ethical and moral code that he doesn't overstep and naturally sees the transgressions of others as an attack. It was also nice to have the moral ambiguity of the "friends" who did things that would clearly be perceived as manipulative at best, and evil at worst, yet one could see their motivations for acting as they did even though clearly wrong at their base. Thanks for a great story.

Ok, he forgives the sex and ends up starting to enjoy it is a strange enough ending. But forgiving all the lying and deception, especially after that final speech seems inconsistent.

In one of the previous chapters it had come out that his wife had continued swinging after he left her - at least one time. In this chapter his ex-friends go to great lengths to stress how much Chloe knows she messed up, regrets what she did, would do anything to get her husband back, and is lost without him. However, these two realities seem to be in conflict. If the latter is true, which given chapter three and her move to Portlant seems to indicate it is, why would she have continued trying to swing and fuck these so called friends? If she truly loved him and was fearful that her behavior had driven him away, wouldn't she now loathe that behavior? Wouldn't she, more than the husband, despise these so called friends and want nothing to do with them? As I said before, given that having sex with others is what nearly lost her the love of her life, it would be a reasonable expectation that she would never want anything to go with that lifestyle again.

Either this is a contradiction, or once again (in keeping with the entire story) she is not being completely forthcoming and everything that happened was merely a ploy to get him back and get him to swing. Was the good doctor merely there to provide healing, or was her role to get him to accept the lifestyle? Did the doctor tell Chole to be sitting on the couch in lingerie with Wendy (a point Chole says she did not fully understand), or did she think that her husband was finally ready to take the plunge and she was there to give him a nudge? Would love to have the author weigh in on these questions.

wrong ! the way you wrote the story they did. they took a couple, manipulated first the wife (the weaker one) and wanted to change this healthy's couple sexlife and only for one selfish reason . the had it not. the had not the love and most likely also not the same good sex.

Because sex is not sex. it is the most intimate togetherness 2 people can have! and no eventhough some idiots still believe it, it is no sport. nobody knows happy old whores, happy old pornstars or happy old hippies (who still lives like in the 60ies). why ? it is not working. sex is not "JUST" sex.

and as dumb and as week Chloe was, I would have dumped her as well. I could by the end of that story pretty clearly indetify my ennemies 2 jealous couples and a not loveable ex-wife as she was in without the husband. plus she did not mind them hiring a whore and me fucking her. for her sex is also nothing than spitting on the floor.

and no I don't need "friends" out of control because of pot, booze and extasy and their greed to be high. and the involvement of "Doctor Ingram " you bet your ass I would have met this group infront of a judge toghether with my so called friends. several laws have been touched here we don't even need to discuss.

and if in your country a chivalry complex is to be an absolutely normal man, who respects others, who helps others in need, who stays true to his word, well then fuck your country , fuck your values, fuck your education.

so fuck your end of a story when he change so much that he is not the same man as in the beginning of the story.

The manipulation that went on with the weird doctor was far more heinous than the group sex incident. Those people fucked him mind body and soul and he just plays it off but couldn't get past the sex thing initially. Completely illogical from a character stand point. It would have been more logical to have sasquatch show up and help him out.

In answer to other commentators...

My problem is not that the story ends with him going for the swinging lifestyle. My problem is that the ending does not fit the rest of the story. It would have taken more work on the part of the author to bring the storyline, and reader, to accepting that conclusion. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, just that as written the ending seemed rushed and artificial -at least the last two paragraphs.

As I said before, the author seemed to have two agendas. Both seemed at odds. I do think his goal was to bring these two agendas together. A noble mission, and he almost did it. Wonderfully written. Very creative. Obviously provocative. I will be looking for more from this author in the future.

I knew he's coming back to be w/ her. whatever! gave you a 3.

I guess I could see him getting back with Chloe but to actually try swinging and stuff? Doesn't match with the rest of the story. He definitely allowed himself to be changed by these people who he called friends and just gave in.

Writing a negative comment on someone's work is tough because you dont want to hurt the person as it's not personal. In the case of this story it's tough to be polite because so many things suck out here. From the grammar to the words used to the eventual climax.

Making the central character a wimp was not a good idea considering the level of deceit. The Amy story line was too unbelievable and was an all time high in terms of deceit. Overall, he had no option but to go for massive revenge on the entire gang including Amy. Massive disappointment in what could have been a great story.

The fact reconciliation was even a thought after all of the bull shit they put him through is absurd. Decently written and it was a good story, but the end killed it for me. There was no logical reason for him to take Chloe back...NONE! She basically had been party to breaking his heart twice. And then you let the swinging friends win in the end...I'll give three stars for a one star ending.

As I was reading back through the comments an anon commented on this author being Katmai Jr. Ah yes Katmai, how could I forget Katmai and his Nice guy story, which indecently was the last multi-chapter story I ever voted on before it was over. The ending of that one still pisses me off, at least this one we saw the wimpy streak in the protag before the final chapter and didn't get kicked in the oompa loompas suddenly like the aforementioned Katmai did to us.

I am glad you finish the story the way you wanted to. Thanks for sharing.

The ending is out of place with the character the author created. It's like a fine oil painting of a barn in a grass filled pasture, with a cartoon farmer riding a cartoon cow stuck in one corner.

You did it. The comments say it all !

The storytelling was a 5*.

With experience the details will shake out.

Fine first published story. Keep it coming Jezzaz.

This is alot better than getting one, two, or NO commnts.

A merry man.4

after the betrayal and cheating and heartache, 'J' then has 3 ways and swaps! The ending does not make sense with the character's personality.

A well-plotted, epic tale. Would make a great movie script.

Sad protaganist. Willing to accept sloppy seconds after all?

Your protagonist is alienated, has discovered that all those he thought he could trust have manipulated him, used him and, in one way or another, have betrayed him.

...so he then goes from knowing he won't survive this, that his heart is going to break because he can no longer trust those he loved, to "all is good!"

Bullshit. Utter tripe and bullshit. Sorry, man, but if you're going to be making such a radical change, then you need to devote a LOT more effort (and page space) to making it a believable turn of events. People do not simply shrug their shoulders (not even metaphorically) and say "oh well" and everything is good....At least, they don't do that much past the age of 6.

I feel like I wasted 32 minutes reading this, and that's not the feeling I want to come away with when I read something. They separate and stay separated, they separate and get back together. Whichever you choose to write, make it believable!

endiing isnt worth the first 3 chapters. Manipulated to the end..........

I didn't see that coming at least the end. Amy/Ingram that is. Would have been interesting to see a scorch earth type scenario threat to Mark and Jim added to this. They had set them selves up for all types of revenge possible coming there way. J should have at least threatened that a little more even describe how I would think. but a good read I am glad I caught up with this in the end.

This is the closest this site comes to great storytelling anymore. Sigh. If anybody knows of a site with stories similar to those by celt, slirpuff, dg hear, etc, that doesn't cost money or have a shit search engine, please please please tell me now.

I would think such a man described prior to this would not accept the manipulation. How hard would it be to stick a recorder in his pocket and have the Dr. admit to some fairly interesting ethical behavior for a review panel? Wouldn't that have kept others from going through the same situation as he went through? wouldn't that be chivalrous? walking back into that viper den makes no sense.

The multiple levels of manipulation and betrayal boggles the mind. Every person's emotions and needs vary. Your ending is plausible, given the soul deep niceness of Jace. It is difficult for us flawed mortals to comprehend. I have actually told those around me that if they ever sign me up for one of those radio birthday prank calls, they are dead to me. And I mean it. The 'friends' would be gone forever. Reconcile with spouse? Perhaps, but it would be a much slower process with the trust gone.

Endings are difficult, as it is impossible to please all. That you have touched so many to comment, yea or nay, speaks to the power of the story. Hope to read much more from you.

doesn't hunt for me. Reconciliation isn't going to happen if it was me. There's one small item that has gotten lost in this tale. It happened on Page 3 of Chapter 2. When they were talking after he kicked the lodgers ass.

"J... I.... there has been no one else for me. I will admit I tried again with Jim and Kathy and Mark and Wendy but it... just felt wrong and forced without you. I just had to do something to stop hurting though. Have you....?"

Apparently the first time, if it was the first time, wasn't enough for her. She had to tried it again after he left just to be sure it was fucked up. While you wrote a good tale that is interesting to follow the thought of reconciliation to me is a big...HELL NO!! Not after she went back again to her little fuck group.

I didn't really see anything that chivalrous about this guy. And anyone who would have unprotected sex with a hooker in a strip club deserves whatever he gets. Why didn't he ever ask Chloe about the circumstances associated with her shaving her pussy? Did Mark and Jeff know about it before he did? But thanks for posting.

Difficult to believe that his "friends" would go to such great lengths to correct their mistakes. Chloe comes across as having an IQ of about 90. Interesting read, though.

I chided you about several items in the last chapter.

I'm over most of them now. Never mind that.

But now, when Jace suddenly showed up in this last chapter as the second smartest human on earth, it all fell apart, like a Perry Mason trial (not improbability and threadbare, IMPOSSIBLE!).

BUT....and I use that term carefully, I related to the poor SOB.

My choices are different, since I have to cope in the real world. I've seen that where forgiven, it just starts up again as soon as something is wanted that would not be agreeable to me.

I disagree with Jace about the Dr.'s last words. They all used him and treated him very badly. And he sucks it up and loves and trusts again? PLEASE!

The entire group intentionally got J tired and juiced so they could get at his wife, who was eager and willing on her own. Here at the end, you changed the story so none of them really had salacious intent at J's expense. Bullshit. Go back and read your own first chapter. And here at the end, you go back to the scene to keep friendly with the culprits. What horse shit.

Stupid fucking ending to a story blaming the husband for not wanting to take back a cheating whore of a wife. But then what do expect from a woman physiologist who is nothing but a high class whore. And a wimp assed author who blames husbands for everything

Try as you might she fucked two guys while he was passes out. You don't have to btb but don't kill a strong character like that, pathetic.

You had something going there but just tanked at the end. Perhaps a re-think and re-write.

Jezzaz,

Read all the comments to get feedback to help you with future stories:

1) Good well-constructed plot to keep us reading;

2) Difficult to believe long time friends would treat J as they did at the cabin;

3) Hard to believe Chloe would have group sex again with the "friends" who caused her to lose her husband;

4) Make Dr. Ingram a member of the amoral and well-paid agents of the CIA [Counselor in Action]

5) How can Chloe love J so much that she considers suicide, but still tries to trick him back to her? At least have Jim pay for some successful therapy for her to explore her feelings and decisions, so she can get beyond her sexually thrilling but "stupid mistake."

6) The Epilogue makes J act in ways that seem inconsistent with all his past decisions. Does he want to replace his lasting and disturbing memory of Jim and Chloe with a new image of Chloe and another guy? Really!

If you want J to expand his understanding of his marriage vows, you need to write another chapter about the struggles and changes that happen to J and Chloe during the two years after their reconciliation.

Hope you find some helpful suggestions hidden among the comment rants. Keep writing...

Jim and Mark fucked you wife while you were asleep. They didn't have your permission nor approval.

Kick ass time baby! No broken bones or cuts but how about a belt or a paddle. Enough that they won't want to sit down for a couple of days.......AND ........you should have a go with Kathy and Wendy, too.

Jeez, that has to be the absolute worst fuck up of a story ending on this entire site, and that's saying something. it's like the whole final chapter was written by someone who hadn't even read the first three. You should delete this pile of shit and go back to the drawing board!

But I feel the same as many. Jace's behavior in the end was not consistent with his ethos in the rest of the story. Most men in this type of situation would have just left Chloe for good. She was part of the plot from the start, another betrayal heaped on the original cheating. And I agree with others; Jace would not have ever wanted to do the group sex scene in the future, based on his character development in the first part of the story. The bad ending is mitigated by good writing so I give this two stars instead of only one.

fine story well told

a truly awful ending. Out of this world bad. And I really loved the first 3 chapters.

As a PhD, let me say the following:

Using what you learned in your professional education to perform psychological manipulation, modification, and/or "treatment" on an adult without their consent, and without their having been judged incapable of giving consent, is morally akin to a surgeon operating on a patient against their will.

Would you like a free vasectomy ? No ? Well, here, let's drug you and do one anyway. It's "for your own good."

I realize the author may not know this, but I bring it up to demonstrate the extent of how large the violation of his will was. Put into layman's terms, in a manner I usually hate, he was the target of "brainwashing."

Okay, it's only a story. But Chapter 4 ended on that basic, jarring inconsistency: What are the odds that he would let Chloe back into his life, once that became clear ?

But I was really enjoying myself until the end.

A horrible ending, Jace at the end was completely out of character. Completely. He just started to grow up then you changed him inyo something he wasnt.

A Katmai trick.

Disappointing, such potential. Perhaps someone will write a proper and fitting ending.

This isn't the ending I would have expected. A wife willing to "do anything" like this is the equivalent of a stalker with access (and well-heeled friends). A "therapist" like this (and I speak from someone working on a doctoral degree in nursing psych) is unethical and manipulative at best.

The part of this whole thing that is the most believable is the childlike, self-centered whiny "it was almost the last day" and "we wanted to get high" defense.

The least believable part is that J accepts friendship with any of them. While I can see that the whole "cautious forgiveness" does fit with some of J's character (the whole insanely chivalrous side), allowing an actual relationship does not fit with him having a working brain.

Thank you, Gorilla...when I saw your prediction, it all fell in place.

This was a very good read, although very depressing in many parts! There is, however, a very critical flaw near the end. Apparently, the author could NOT stand for his Wronged Hero to have been duped so badly! The PoV is that of Hubby. What he tells us about the state of his observations, emotions, and beliefs are a perfectly accurate assessment of Hubby's thinking. However, during Hubby's exit speech, he claims, first, to have pegged Amy as a person with psychological clinical training who had been briefed on his problems, so HUBBY decided to allow her to help fix him because he knew he needed it. Shortly after, he also claims to have recognized that Sweetie was, in part, an unwilling participant, tricked or cajoled or drugged into doing this. If that were true, then MUCH of his despair would have been much milder, or even absent.

My belief is that the story was accurate, as written in the first 3 chapters. The idea of "Nyah, Nyah, I really knew everything from the start" came towards the end, and that the earlier parts of the tale were not reviewed. Thus, a more omniscient Hubby was generated, despite negating Hubby's reported feeling and thinking in earlier chapters! Enough to drop my five star assessment to 3

Who needs enemies? Well written, horrible ending. He was played from beginning to end. His wife knew of the original spoof, went along with it. How hard did she try to wake him before she took the high hard one from his "friend", then when she found out about the plan to get ihm back, she went along again. I guess if it would have worked, she would have never told him...and she and his "friends" would have had an ongoing joke on him for years to come.

No way he takes the b!#@h back IRL. No way.

Interesting story. Kept me interested until the end. For that you get 4 *.

One other comment......

IMO, Once it was clear Amy/Jessica role in this farce, he should have threatened her with exposure and a lawsuit and thrown her ass out. That speech she gave at the end was the last piece of manipulative bullshit that moved him to make that last fu@#&d up decision to take her back. There are special places in hell for folks like her.

Again....good story. Object of a good tale is to get your readers invested in the characters and the story. Good job.

Still not crazy about the ending though. lol

I enjoyed the final confrontation, though it could have been trimmed some. The truth was more or less what I expected after reading Ch. 03, but it was nice to get that out in the open. More than a few threads of this well-woven tale strain credulity, but I happily suspended disbelief and enjoyed the ride. The discovery of 'Amy' and her 'lover' in the hotel was a bridge too far, and I cannot see how they would have expected the protag to react in a way that would have brought him back to his wife, except by way of his ultimately discovering their duplicity....except, of course, that was not anticipated at all.....oh well, let's not overthink things.

The friends drop $250K to help save their marriage? That's got to count for something, despite their treachery (at the cabin and in the 'rehab project'). I found the swapping aside in the epilogue more than a little out of character. I get that the hubby is more open sexually, and maybe has a taste for MFF threesomes. But, we are told that, neither he nor his wife were particularly comfortable with it, so why bother? What was the point? To show that hubby has healed sufficiently to do a little group play without having a breakdown? Meh...would have been better without that element. Still, a small quibble.

As a lover of mysteries, and of dramatic LW tales, this was a clever and original marriage of both, and I enjoyed the series immensely. Thanks!

According to MapQuest, Portland OR to Spokane WA is about 360 miles. I want the car that can do that in 1h23m.

I was hoping that J should try to proof he could be bad by fucking wendy and Kathy together with out his wife being involved. Then have Amy / Jessica spent an evening with J and his wife for a MFF, of course paid for by his friends.

Given my alternative scene to then ending I did enjoy the story. I hope there might be a ch.4 at some point just see where everyone ended up in life.

Liked the story right up until Jessica started asking what he would be willing to do for Chloe on the last page. A better response by J would have been to talk about Trust in a relationship. I can't imagine anyone, even as nice as J is portrayed, to forgive 4 months of emotional manipulation like that. First three chapters - 5 stars, last chapter - 2 stars.

Great until the inal Jessica comment. Plot wise, it did not match his moral or emotional mindset. Was quite a killer.

4* overall. Change the end to match, it can even end up in the same place, just use a different path.

The moral of this story is no matter how much your friends shit upon you if they do it out of love just smile and deeply inhale. This story started out with Chloe manipulating him and it ends with Chloe manipulating him. The means truly justifies the ends in this story. what I do not understand that if he divorced her why he never verified he was divorced before taking up with Amy. You would think that that would be the chivarous thing to do. Lastly, they end up opening their marriage with swapping and threesome so you have to wonder why he got upsat in the first place about Jim fucking Chloe. Overall, it was all an overreaction by Jace seeing something he was not ready for that he had to work through with therapy. A cuckold story in the end.

Great story. I accept that the ending fells somewhat flaked out, but I'll argue it's what Jezzaz was aiming for all along so it felt consistent for me. I liked the characters ad the build up all the way through.

How do you write Jace as "Mr. Chivalry" and then put him in threesomes and swapping at the end of the story? I liked many parts of the overall story but the failed ending and several of his choices, especially in the 3rd chapter just don't match up. And do some better proof reading or get an editor.

okay it was getting irritable to me that he kept pushing off obvious clues that things weren't right all throughout the story, but i gave him a little benefit of doubt. then when he figures it all out and totally just accepts it all??!!

it was not even close to the character that had been represented as "J's" inner being. he would have been twice as pissed i think. lawsuits against the doctor at the very fucking least. she was at best unethical and at worst a whore who was there to manipulate his every thought about his love life and what had happened to him. truly, what kind of person takes 250,000 dollars to manipulate a human being into accepting his betrayal by his wife and friends?

i could have liked this right up until the end when it just went from believable to stupidity in 1 second flat. wish i could get my time spent reading this back.

i cannot tell you how real this story felt. The dialogue from Jace explaining exactly how he felt and what they had really done with it all was perfect. I hesitate to offer any criticism because I'm nobody to critique your work, so I'll just point out my impression: at the end he found out things about his friends and wife that were more hurtful than the initial cause. I just didn't understand how someone who had previously had such clarity in understanding and evaluating injustice could be so easily moved into his wife's arms by a cliche statement from the good doctor. His wife and friends had said far more moving and inspired things to get him back and their words were bolstered by sincere emotion. It just seemed like he abandoned the fact that his wife is a conniving, untrustworthy, rationalizing after the fact, plotter and said "well i still love her". That would be fine, but he had never stopped loving her. We the reader knew that and knew his reason for still leaving her was just that she couldn't be trusted. Since that issue was not resolved, but rather enhanced at the end, I just didn't get how he could go to her. But I loved it. I have hardly ever been so invested in any fiction that wasn't old timey literature. Thanks you for sharing your talent with us.

I am laughing out loud at all the commentators complaining that the end of your story has too much sex. And at the commentators complaining that the end of your story has too little sex.

I do share the general opinion that the end of this story does not have any realistic explanation for J's activities. After all the previous prose spent describing him as a character who would absolutely NOT share his wife.

jezzaz, you can tell a story, you do express some talent at it. Keep on writing, keep on posting. Experience will improve upon your abilities. Do not let yourself be discouraged by the trolls that infest the LW genre. I have communicated with several authors, who have refused to post in LW for fear of attracting an onslaught of nasty threats from the hormonally hysterical testosterone afflicted adolescents. Who confuse a fist to a woman's face as a heroically masculine form of communication.

Over all I still gave the series 5 stars. There appears to be a few misconceptions by fellow readers.

1. Jace has a highly analytic thought process. Its easy to believe he could react in the manor Jezzaz describes. However, I too doubt Jace would ever be open to threesomes or sharing following the Halloween strip club party. Its nice to read a story where the hero doesn't think only with his cock at every point.

2. About the covert therapy, Jace asked and Jessica confirmed thist style of therapy being utilized for those experienced in covert operations. I know from experience (Vietnam era to Post 911 to current day) that normal recognized treatments just do not exist for many military and intelligence groups. There ARE some really off the wall attempts resulting in failures and successes that have been tried over the years. I do not see the sex part but I cannot dismiss it out of hand.

3. Chloe's role. This one is easy, She does love Jace and really is sorry about what happened. It is very apparent she would not have done what she did had she not been drunk and stoned. I have never been able to reach that level of control loss but again I have observed many, many others who have done so. That she would participate in any scheme that could possibly bring Jace back is believable. It was brought out that she was not made aware of everything and had not done anything past a short period where she sought comfort from those who really did not have her best interests at heart. So why BTB?

Jezzaz, your only weakness in this story was the epilogue. I see you just started a new story and I do look forward to reading more of your works.

Could have sued the Doctor for practice without patients consent she'd have paid big for a settlement with nondisclosure

he let them skate

the pro just did her job

scratch them all start again

partners cheat lie & steal

REAL friends do not

Living

The way it worked out, it seems like he either had a major hissy fit and made way too big a deal out of things or he got repeatedly abused by his friends and let them get away with it. Neither conclusion satisfies.

Otherwise, it was a well-written story and I thank you for sharing it with us.

It is so obvious that you wrote this story chapter by chapter since you tried to change the story line. It's lazy, and insulting to your readers. You can't pretend in your last chapter that the things your wrote in the first didn't happen! Don't post your stories until they are complete... then you can proof and edit.

I don't agree with most of the comments. I really liked this story. People keep saying that he should lose all of his friends and dump his wife. I disagree with that. While I do think that he was manipulated, it was all done out of love. No one set out to disrespect him. They all loved him and would do anything to set it right. While its easy to say that these fictional characters should all burn in hell, I doubt anyone has 4 friends who would literally do anything undo a wrong. Even a plan as bad as this one deserved to be forgiven. People who always want to BTB and see absolutely no room for forgiveness will always be victims. Not everyone who does you wrong needs to be punished. If that is all you want out of life, you will be a very lonely, bitter old guy in an Elderly home with no visitors. On your death bed you will look back at your life and realize that you spent most of it angry, and wonder was it worth it. Back to the story, great job.